Analysis Israel's options don't look good - but a full-scale military campaign in the near future is inevitable

[placnx]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:14 PM, Jingthing said:

Hamas definitely has no regard for the lives of Jews or Arabs. Their focus is death.

Regrettably it has gotten to the point where being willing to die is the only way to put an end to 16 years of incarceration with no end in sight.

[placnx]

On 10/15/2023 at 7:28 PM, MikeandDow said:

correct,  i belive Hamas want a blood bath and try to bring in hezbollah, lebanon and the rest of the Arab nations for a full on war

Involvement of Hezbollah is quite possible.

[placnx]

On 10/15/2023 at 11:27 PM, JensenZ said:

I have a more pessimistic view on what is likely to happen. Recently word from Iran was that if Israel starts a land invasion, it will cause an "earthquake". Iran has missiles capable of striking Israel. A land invasion will start soon. The US currently has one carrier strike group stationed off the coast of Israel with another arriving in a few days (I believe it takes 8 days for a carrier to travel from the US to the Eastern Mediterranean).

 

With the US heavily engaged in Ukraine, and possibly soon in Israel, there's a perfect opportunity for China to invade Taiwan. This is how world wars start.

I'm worried about Taiwan, too.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Wikipedia, that's hilarious.

Before you denigrate Wikipedia, and that entry, have a (long) read.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

How have the US and Israel disallowed elections? 

Israel is in control, and the US goes along with it. For decades Israel has worked to prevent effective self-governance by the Palestinians. They want a government that will enforce the will and policies of the Israeli government without regard to the interests of the Palestinian people. 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

Regrettably it has gotten to the point where being willing to die is the only way to put an end to 16 years of incarceration with no end in sight.

I call B.S.

They not only are willing to die themselves.

They want to murder all Jews and they care nothing for the lives of their fellow Palestinians that don't follow their terrorist death cult. 

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, placnx said:

. For decades Israel has worked to prevent effective self-governance by the Palestinians. 

How have they done that ?

[placnx]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I call B.S.

They not only are willing to die themselves.

They want to murder all Jews and they care nothing for the lives of their fellow Palestinians that don't follow their terrorist death cult. 

There was method in madness. I doubt that we are talking about blind hatred, even. The people who care nothing for the lives of those Palestinians are the ones who dropped 6000 bombs on residential buildings.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It was never said that ALL murdered babies were mutilated.

So you're either lying or you suffer a memory lapse.

Sorry, you're confused with some other commenter. I am only citing the comments of Biden et al who AFAIK did not mention mutilation, just decapitation, nor did I hear them say that ALL babies were executed that way. Maybe someone else said that???

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

There was method in madness. I doubt that we are talking about blind hatred, even. The people who care nothing for the lives of those Palestinians are the ones who dropped 6000 bombs on residential buildings.

There was method in the pogrom at the music festival, etc.?

Do you agree Hamas needs to be eliminated like Isis or not?

If not you are supporting their terrorist ideology. 

Kill all Jews.

End Israel. 

Have a caliphate.

[Thorgal]

2 hours ago, placnx said:

There was method in madness. I doubt that we are talking about blind hatred, even. The people who care nothing for the lives of those Palestinians are the ones who dropped 6000 bombs on residential buildings.

Some of these 6.000 bombs never detonated (statistically speaking).

 

Not sure if Israeli MPC's and Merkava's will shake the surroundings in Gaza such way that it can be dangerous for your own boots on the ground or any civilian locals combined with undetonated JDAM's...

[placeholder]

Here's a few points raised by Thomas Friedman that point out the deep irrationality behind the presumably impending invasion of Gaza.

"Just ask this question: If Israel announced today that it was forgoing, for now, a full-blown invasion of Gaza, who would be happy, and who would be relieved, and who would be upset? Iran would be totally frustrated, Hezbollah would be disappointed, Hamas would feel devastated — its whole war plan came to naught — and Vladimir Putin would be crushed, because Israel would not be burning up ammunition and weapons the U.S. needs to be sending to Ukraine. The settlers in the West Bank would be enraged."

https://archive.ph/bpZcO

Not only is it remarkable for his rare display of common sense, but also for the fact that he no longer refers to Netanyahu as "Bibi"

 

[placeholder]

Here's a snippet from a post by Amos Harel of Haaretz, cited by Friedman.

 

 "There is an unusual combination of people at the top in Israel. On one hand, there is an unfit prime minister, a nearly Shakespearean figure who is facing the personal danger of an ignominious conclusion to an arguably brilliant career. Facing him are a military brass who are smitten and consumed with guilt feelings (and if only Netanyahu would bother displaying a smidgen of that). That’s not a perfect recipe for considered decision-making."

https://archive.ph/nzrH8#selection-1447.49-1447.493

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Some of these 6.000 bombs never detonated (statistically speaking).

 

Not sure if Israeli MPC's and Merkava's will shake the surroundings in Gaza such way that it can be dangerous for your own boots on the ground or any civilian locals combined with undetonated JDAM's...

If there are any unexploded bombs, the israelis may find them being returned to them ( if they invade ) as anti tank IEDs.

[traveller101]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There was method in the pogrom at the music festival, etc.?

Do you agree Hamas needs to be eliminated like Isis or not?

If not you are supporting their terrorist ideology. 

Kill all Jews.

End Israel. 

Have a caliphate.

The archetypical black and white thinking on display. Inciting wholesale violence and hatred.

Have you ever wasted a thought what 'eliminating Hamas' means in practical terms? Dropping 6000 bombs and counting, telling over a million people to leave to the south, order hospitals to close and transport all patients to the South, presumably on stretchers with hundreds of ambulances lining up outside ..... creates fertile ground for the recruitment of future members of Hamas, driven by unimaginable hatred towards the people inflicting misery and death on their loved ones.

It plays right into the hands of Hamas - the subhuman vermins and their leaders responsible for the indiscriminate brutal mass murder of 1300 Israeli children, women and men.

The current course of action will never achieve the 'elimination of Hamas', only strengthen their base.

I wholeheartedly agree that Hamas and other Terrorist Organisations need to be eliminated. But there is only one option to achieve this aim - take away their power base and support from within the population.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

The archetypical black and white thinking on display. Inciting wholesale violence and hatred.

Have you ever wasted a thought what 'eliminating Hamas' means in practical terms? Dropping 6000 bombs and counting, telling over a million people to leave to the south, order hospitals to close and transport all patients to the South, presumably on stretchers with hundreds of ambulances lining up outside ..... creates fertile ground for the recruitment of future members of Hamas, driven by unimaginable hatred towards the people inflicting misery and death on their loved ones.

It plays right into the hands of Hamas - the subhuman vermins and their leaders responsible for the indiscriminate brutal mass murder of 1300 Israeli children, women and men.

The current course of action will never achieve the 'elimination of Hamas', only strengthen their base.

I wholeheartedly agree that Hamas and other Terrorist Organisations need to be eliminated. But there is only one option to achieve this aim - take away their power base and support from within the population.

You're tripping if you don't think military action is necessary from Israel. 

As far as the "current course of action" this is just the beginning, Israel realizes that Hamas uses human shields and has set traps, but you assume that you know exactly what tactics Israel will use to try to meet their goals (which indeed is ambitious to end Hamas). You don't know. I don't know. 

 

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

The archetypical black and white thinking on display. Inciting wholesale violence and hatred.

Have you ever wasted a thought what 'eliminating Hamas' means in practical terms? Dropping 6000 bombs and counting, telling over a million people to leave to the south, order hospitals to close and transport all patients to the South, presumably on stretchers with hundreds of ambulances lining up outside ..... creates fertile ground for the recruitment of future members of Hamas, driven by unimaginable hatred towards the people inflicting misery and death on their loved ones.

It plays right into the hands of Hamas - the subhuman vermins and their leaders responsible for the indiscriminate brutal mass murder of 1300 Israeli children, women and men.

The current course of action will never achieve the 'elimination of Hamas', only strengthen their base.

I wholeheartedly agree that Hamas and other Terrorist Organisations need to be eliminated. But there is only one option to achieve this aim - take away their power base and support from within the population.

Well, it may eliminate Hamas, but unless the conditions that led to Hamas are changed, a similar organization will most likely arise to replace it.

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

The archetypical black and white thinking on display. Inciting wholesale violence and hatred.

Have you ever wasted a thought what 'eliminating Hamas' means in practical terms? Dropping 6000 bombs and counting, telling over a million people to leave to the south, order hospitals to close and transport all patients to the South, presumably on stretchers with hundreds of ambulances lining up outside ..... creates fertile ground for the recruitment of future members of Hamas, driven by unimaginable hatred towards the people inflicting misery and death on their loved ones.

It plays right into the hands of Hamas - the subhuman vermins and their leaders responsible for the indiscriminate brutal mass murder of 1300 Israeli children, women and men.

The current course of action will never achieve the 'elimination of Hamas', only strengthen their base.

I wholeheartedly agree that Hamas and other Terrorist Organisations need to be eliminated. But there is only one option to achieve this aim - take away their power base and support from within the population.

Thank you for injecting some common sense into the thread.

 

The only way to "eradicate" Hamas is to eradicate the Palestinian population, IMO.

Meanwhile, israel has created millions of new Hamas supporters, and every day more are vowing revenge against israel.

 

The world is watching and will not forget.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, placnx said:

Israel is in control, and the US goes along with it. For decades Israel has worked to prevent effective self-governance by the Palestinians. They want a government that will enforce the will and policies of the Israeli government without regard to the interests of the Palestinian people. 

You're not answering, you're just repeating your claim. 

 

You previously claimed: "The election was in 2006, and the US & Israel have not permitted another election or the emergence of younger moderates to contest new Palestinian elections."

 

What are the US and Israel doing to prevent elections? 

[Yellowtail]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thank you for injecting some common sense into the thread.

 

The only way to "eradicate" Hamas is to eradicate the Palestinian population, IMO.

Meanwhile, israel has created millions of new Hamas supporters, and every day more are vowing revenge against israel.

 

The world is watching and will not forget.

So be it. 

[Yellowtail]

49 minutes ago, traveller101 said:

The archetypical black and white thinking on display. Inciting wholesale violence and hatred.

Have you ever wasted a thought what 'eliminating Hamas' means in practical terms? Dropping 6000 bombs and counting, telling over a million people to leave to the south, order hospitals to close and transport all patients to the South, presumably on stretchers with hundreds of ambulances lining up outside ..... creates fertile ground for the recruitment of future members of Hamas, driven by unimaginable hatred towards the people inflicting misery and death on their loved ones.

It plays right into the hands of Hamas - the subhuman vermins and their leaders responsible for the indiscriminate brutal mass murder of 1300 Israeli children, women and men.

The current course of action will never achieve the 'elimination of Hamas', only strengthen their base.

I wholeheartedly agree that Hamas and other Terrorist Organisations need to be eliminated. But there is only one option to achieve this aim - take away their power base and support from within the population.

To a lot of people, it is pretty black and white. The side that in intentionally targeting civilians is evil and needs to be eradicated.

 

The only people that see a lot of grey, are the people claiming the intentional targeting of civilians is justified.  

 

 

 

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The only people that see a lot of grey, are the people claiming the intentional targeting of civilians is justified.  

Nonsense. Those people would be black or white thinking.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, placnx said:

The expectation was more likely that international outrage would force IDF to halt their ethnic eradication campaign long before it could become a reality.

What 'ethnic eradication'?

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Well, it may eliminate Hamas, but unless the conditions that led to Hamas are changed, a similar organization will most likely arise to replace it.

Hopefully a new younger generation of Palestinian leadership will emerge who will realise that continually attacking and fighting Israel  is of no benefit to themselves .

   A new younger generation that accepts Israel's right to exist and want to live peacefully with its neighbours .

   Then Israel and Palestinians can live in peace and when that happens, there is no reason for them not to have a Country of their own 

[ThaiFelix]

On 10/15/2023 at 8:25 AM, Morch said:

I have already commented that I find these attempts to minimize Hamas's atrocities through focusing on this detail or that, repulsive. There's no shortage of evil associated with this attack. That you, and other posters on here keep harping on it, despite there being gruesome pictures out there, demanding they be posted on here or else all of what is claimed is untrue - that's just vile. 

 

There are, naturally, inaccurate reports - that's quite normal for a battle zone. To discount everything, or to condone and minimize what Hamas did - that's already a choice. Apparently, you've made yours long ago.

If you replaced the word Hamas with Israel or IDF in your nonsense comments it would be much closer to the truth.  Stop spreading lies!

[ThaiFelix]

39 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hopefully a new younger generation of Palestinian leadership will emerge who will realise that continually attacking and fighting Israel  is of no benefit to themselves .

   A new younger generation that accepts Israel's right to exist and want to live peacefully with its neighbours .

   Then Israel and Palestinians can live in peace and when that happens, there is no reason for them not to have a Country of their own 

Yes indeed.  Your new generation of Palestinians just just sit peacefully and watch the Zionists take what little land they have not yet taken.  Great Idea.  I wonder but, would the Israelis also be so peaceful and understanding if the situation was reversed?

[MikeandDow]

43 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hopefully a new younger generation of Palestinian leadership will emerge who will realise that continually attacking and fighting Israel  is of no benefit to themselves .

   A new younger generation that accepts Israel's right to exist and want to live peacefully with its neighbours .

   Then Israel and Palestinians can live in peace and when that happens, there is no reason for them not to have a Country of their own 

Are you dreaming,this will never happen

[Yellowtail]

46 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Hopefully a new younger generation of Palestinian leadership will emerge who will realise that continually attacking and fighting Israel  is of no benefit to themselves .

   A new younger generation that accepts Israel's right to exist and want to live peacefully with its neighbours .

   Then Israel and Palestinians can live in peace and when that happens, there is no reason for them not to have a Country of their own 

Like driving from Los Angeles to Miami and hoping you don't run out of gas, 

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, MikeandDow said:

Are you dreaming,this will never happen

It happened in Ireland and also in numerous other  Countries 

[traveller101]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The only way to "eradicate" Hamas is to eradicate the Palestinian population, IMO.

 

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thank you for injecting some common sense into the thread.

 

The only way to "eradicate" Hamas is to eradicate the Palestinian population, IMO.

Meanwhile, israel has created millions of new Hamas supporters, and every day more are vowing revenge against israel.

 

The world is watching and will not forget.

So be it. 

You seem to be comfortable with the notion of eradicating the whole population in order to achieve the goal of eradicating Hamas.

It's called Genocide, the most serious war crime.