Government to promote production and use of EVs in Thailand

[webfact]

The Thai government is determined to promote increased production and use of electric vehicles (EVs), in place of internal combustion engines, to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050 and net zero greenhouse gas emissions by the year 2065, according to Radklao Inthawong Suwankiri, deputy government spokesperson.

 

She said that the government has assigned the Transport, Natural Resources and Environment, Energy, Commerce and Industry ministries, as well as other agencies, to study, set policies for and map out measures for the migration to electric vehicle use.

 

Meanwhile, the Industry Ministry has been assigned to cooperate with the Finance Ministry, the Board of Investment and the Eastern Economic Corridor (EEC) policy committee to set policies and measures for the promotion of supply chains in support of EV production and use, she added.

 

Full story: Thai PBS 2023-10-23

 

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[sidneybear]

EVs are a failure in the world's most developed countries. They're extremely expensive, heavy, have zero resale value and have insufficient supporting infrastructure. People queue for hours to recharge them.

 

Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? 

[sidneybear]

Here's more. People who can afford Teslas probably have a second car with a proper engine anyway....

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/study-finds-some-electric-car-owners-considering-a-switch-back-to-petrol-power/

 

Housewives use them as runabouts, but forget them of you're a serious driver.

[doctormann]

Better sort out the infrastructure first.

[Henryford]

41 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

EVs are a failure in the world's most developed countries. They're extremely expensive, heavy, have zero resale value and have insufficient supporting infrastructure. People queue for hours to recharge them.

 

Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? 

Plus, in the UK, they are quickly becoming uninsurable. Just imagine the cost of write offs in Thailand with a few traffic knocks to their batteries.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

Housewives use them as runabouts, but forget them of you're a serious driver.

Perhaps get a golf cart for her. 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

EVs are a failure in the world's most developed countries. They're extremely expensive, heavy, have zero resale value and have insufficient supporting infrastructure. People queue for hours to recharge them.

 

Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? 

Spouting uniformed opinions not supported by any evidence!

 

Shall we look at some facts?

 

EVs are here in Thailand and the numbers are growing:

"From January to September, Thailand’s total vehicle sales reached 500,942 units, with EVs constituting 10.05% of this figure. This represents a significant shift from the previous year when only 9,729 EVs were sold in Thailand. The year-to-date 2023 sales surpass last year’s figures by over five times"

https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/07/byds-ev-sales-in-thailand-reached-a-new-high-in-september-2023/

 

"They're extremely expensive" The Neta V is 4 door family hatchback and cost ฿500,000 

 

"They are heavy" I have just bought my second EV here in Thailand and it weighs less than the average Pick-Up that most people seem to drive here. 

 

"zero resale value" Follow this link and find me any EVs for zero baht https://www.one2car.com/en/used-cars-for-sale?fuel_type=Electric&page_size=25&sort=price.desc

 

"and have insufficient supporting infrastructure People queue for hours to recharge them" As you clearly don't own an EV in Thailand how would you know,  I do and I have never queued 

 

 

 

Last stupid comment "Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? "

 

Thailand is a sunny country country  - maybe you haven't noticed. I power my EVs from excess solar after I have powered my house and charged my home batteries. My new EV has bidirectional charging so I can charge it up when it's sunny and use the power for my house or my other EVs.

 

[VincentRJ]

The main disadvantages of the BEVs, for most people, excluding the very wealthy, are the initial high purchasing price, plus the charging difficulties for people who live in apartment buildings in the city.

 

For those who live in individual houses in the suburbs and have garages, and perhaps solar panels on the roof, the main disadvantage is the initial high cost of the EV. But it seems that is about to change. A Chinese company, BYD, has introduced an affordable EV hatchback, named the e2, which will soon be available in Australia for possibly less than A$30,000, which is no more expensive than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

 

The following site provides the details.
https://motowheeler.com/au/electric-cars/byd-e2-12920
 

[sidneybear]

28 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Spouting uniformed opinions not supported by any evidence!

You sound like one of those people who drives so little, the sun is all ypu need. Check the laws of physics for maximum available solar power there is per square metre of solar panels, versus how much power you need as a serious driver. Have you considered buying a bicycle? 

 

Meanwhile, back in the real world:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12585467/Furious-EV-owners-resort-getting-middle-night-charge-cars-fights-break-charging-points-arent-marshals-brought-police-service-stations.html

 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/ev-owners-warned-to-plan-ahead-to-avoid-easter-charging-queues-20230402-p5cxe3.html

 

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Plus, in the UK, they are quickly becoming uninsurable. Just imagine the cost of write offs in Thailand with a few traffic knocks to their batteries.

I read the same. Here's a proud owner of an electric Porsche...

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by sidneybear

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, sidneybear said:

EVs are a failure in the world's most developed countries. They're extremely expensive, heavy, have zero resale value and have insufficient supporting infrastructure. People queue for hours to recharge them.

 

Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? 

You miss the financial benefit to the usual suspects.

IMO schemes like this are rarely about the supposed benefit to the populace, but they are about the expanded wallets of a few.

[thaibeachlovers]

45 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

A Chinese company, BYD, has introduced an affordable EV hatchback, named the e2, which will soon be available in Australia for possibly less than A$30,000, which is no more expensive than an equivalent ICE vehicle.

555555555555555.

 

Do you disagree that most people rarely, if ever, buy a new car?

$30,000 might as well be $30 million for all their ability to afford that for many.

Forget about second hand EVs due to current expense of battery replacements.

[Bandersnatch]

23 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

You sound like one of those people who drives so little, the sun is all ypu need. Check the laws of physics for maximum available solar power there is per square metre of solar panels, versus how much power you need as a serious driver.

 

This is a graph from one of my solar inverters and you can see why I bought a second EV so my wife I can both drive one and charge them from our home solar. 

 

23 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

Meanwhile, back in the real world

I don't live in Australia or the UK, I live in Thailand. I have never seen a charging queue let alone a fight here. 

 

If you get all your "Facts" from the Daily Fail and Click Bate YouTubers you know they're not real facts don't you 🤣 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[sidneybear]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You miss the financial benefit to the usual suspects.

IMO schemes like this are rarely about the supposed benefit to the populace, but they are about the expanded wallets of a few.

Precisely, Elon Musk didn't get to be the world's richest man without all those fat taxpayer-funded subsidies. Tesla was worth more than all the large automakers combined, despite making a tiny fraction of the total number of cars .

 

EV's are just another gravy train for corporations and their government buddies to feed off. Ditto those daft wind turbines.

[thaibeachlovers]

55 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

and have insufficient supporting infrastructure People queue for hours to recharge them" As you clearly don't own an EV in Thailand how would you know,  I do and I have never queued 

You have never q'd because so few people drive them. Quadruple the number and it may be a different story.

[thaibeachlovers]

 

57 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Thailand is a sunny country country  - maybe you haven't noticed. I power my EVs from excess solar after I have powered my house and charged my home batteries.

Please explain how people living in multi level buildings or condos can benefit from the sunshine in LOS?

Any cost of providing charging facilities will be past on the the residents.

 

As for those that have to park on the streets......................................?

I used to have to park over a mile from where I lived. I'd need a very long extension cord for that!

😞

[sidneybear]

7 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

This is a graph from one of my solar inverters and you can see why I bought a second EV so my wife I can both drive one and charge them from our home solar. 

 

I don't live in Australia or the UK, I live in Thailand. I have never seen a charging queue let alone a fight here. 

 

If you get all your "Facts" from the Daily Fail and Click Bate YouTubers you know they're not real fact don't you 🤣 

So how far do you drive on the theoretical maximum power the sun illuminates each square metre of the earth's surface then?

 

CLUES TO HELP YOU:

 

Solar constant = 1,370 Watts per square metre. Translation for Bandersnatch: This is the maximum power (right across the entire electomagnetic spectrum) that the sun illuminates the surface of the earth with while the sun is directly overhead, so do the math to get the average theoretical maximum at your latitude for each day of the year.

 

BUT - Solar panels are only 15-20% efficent.

 

SO - you're only getting 15-20% of the solar contact per square metre of solar panels = a totally puny 274 Watts per square metre (even with the sun directly overhead, which only happens twice a year in Thailand)

 

QUESTIONS FOR BUNDESNATCH:

 

1) How many square metres of solar panels do you have? You hit around 2.5kw, so they must be quite big and expensive ones.

2) What is the average power consumption of your EV per km?

3) How far do you drive your EV per day, without having to resort to charging off the grid? I'll accept responses in tenths of km here

 

 

Be honest, please, because the laws of physics will catch you out.

[Longwood50]

If electric cars were truly a cost effective alternative there would be no need to actively promote them.  Consumers recongizing their benefits would buy them. 

Instead they are being shoved down everyones throat without regard to the very real negatives that they have. 

Having driven in Thailand it is far from unusual to not have to traverse through flooded streets.  As this couple found out you do so at your own peril.  Water seeped into the battery compartment and ruined the cars battery. 

 

 

 

 

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain

Edited October 23, 2023 by Longwood50

[Bandersnatch]

37 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

SO - you're only getting 15-20% of the solar contact per square metre of solar panels = a totally puny 274 Watts per square metre (even with the sun directly overhead, which only happens twice a year in Thailand)

Knows nothing about EVs and now demonstrates he knows nothing about Solar either. Explains why you have an electric bill and I don't

 

 

37 minutes ago, sidneybear said:

QUESTIONS FOR BUNDESNATCH:

 

1) How many square metres of solar panels do you have? You hit around 2.5kw, so they must be quite big and expensive ones.

2) What is the average power consumption of your EV per km?

3) How far do you drive your EV per day, without having to resort to charging off the grid? I'll accept responses in tenths of km here

1) PV is measured in kW (Watt is capitalised as it's a named after Scottish engineer, James Watt) not m2

2) 6km/kWh

3) It varies. The car has 650km range 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[retarius]

3 hours ago, doctormann said:

Better sort out the infrastructure first.

NO! in Thailand we fire, then aim, then get ready. 

[KhunLA]

"People don't buy new cars" ... and yet, I'm on my 5th in 21 yrs.  Many buy a new one every 2 or 3ish years.

 

Total car sales (2022) - 848k

new car sales (2022) - 348k

 

"If electric cars were truly a cost effective alternative there would be no need to actively promote them.  Consumers recognizing their benefits would buy them."

 

Our savings MG ZS EV vs ICEV

(IF not having solar)

Edited October 23, 2023 by KhunLA

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, sidneybear said:

1) How many square metres of solar panels do you have?

Why don't you pop down to your local solar shop and ask for 10m2 of solar and see the reaction 🤣

[retarius]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Spouting uniformed opinions not supported by any evidence!

 

Shall we look at some facts?

 

EVs are here in Thailand and the numbers are growing:

"From January to September, Thailand’s total vehicle sales reached 500,942 units, with EVs constituting 10.05% of this figure. This represents a significant shift from the previous year when only 9,729 EVs were sold in Thailand. The year-to-date 2023 sales surpass last year’s figures by over five times"

https://carnewschina.com/2023/10/07/byds-ev-sales-in-thailand-reached-a-new-high-in-september-2023/

 

"They're extremely expensive" The Neta V is 4 door family hatchback and cost ฿500,000 

 

"They are heavy" I have just bought my second EV here in Thailand and it weighs less than the average Pick-Up that most people seem to drive here. 

 

"zero resale value" Follow this link and find me any EVs for zero baht https://www.one2car.com/en/used-cars-for-sale?fuel_type=Electric&page_size=25&sort=price.desc

 

"and have insufficient supporting infrastructure People queue for hours to recharge them" As you clearly don't own an EV in Thailand how would you know,  I do and I have never queued 

 

 

 

Last stupid comment "Other than to scam people, what on earth use would they be in Thailand? "

 

Thailand is a sunny country country  - maybe you haven't noticed. I power my EVs from excess solar after I have powered my house and charged my home batteries. My new EV has bidirectional charging so I can charge it up when it's sunny and use the power for my house or my other EVs.

 

You just killed your own argument with data. There were 500,000 odd sales from Jan to September. There are less than 5,000 chargers of all types....per your data ie less than 1 charger for 1000 vehicles. Not nearly enough. And soon like the UK you will need a separate electric meter for home charging (at higher tariff) with restricted hours. You may have bought two. I will not buy one until the range problem is fixed with a/c cranking continuously here in Thailand, the fires are fixed, the insurance problems to come are fixed, the inevitable parking restrictions due to fires are fixed (multistory garages will become uninsurable the moment one fire breaks out in Thailand and same apples to shipping), and the battery replacement costs and battery life are known and not just postulated by companies desiring to sell these POSs to you.

Good luck to you, I hope you never need to charge it on a long trip. 

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Perhaps get a golf cart for her. 

What !!!!!

give up the luxurious SUV ... think of the status man.

[Bandersnatch]

42 minutes ago, retarius said:

You just killed your own argument with data. There were 500,000 odd sales from Jan to September. There are less than 5,000 chargers of all types....per your data ie less than 1 charger for 1000 vehicles. Not nearly enough.

 

500,942 vehicles sold of which 10.05% EVs = 50,000 EVs = 1 charger for every 10 EVs  - not very good at sums at school?  🙄

 

 

53 minutes ago, retarius said:

And soon like the UK you will need a separate electric meter for home charging (at higher tariff) with restricted hours.

 

I think you meant for home charging (at Lower tariff) with restricted hours

 

UK :

 

 

Currently in Thailand:

 

 

 

58 minutes ago, retarius said:

I will not buy one until the range problem is fixed

 

You can drive more than 650km without stopping for a pee? So you must have a urinary catheter bag.

 

1 hour ago, retarius said:

I will not buy one

 

Finally we agree on something EVs are clearly not for you. Stick with your old diesel it will probably outlast you.

 

[Photoguy21]

How exactly is the required electricity going to be provided? Right now there are problems with power. Better than it used to be I would agree but not perfect. Also has anyone considered the following:

1. Many people do not live in houses where a charger can be installed so how are they going to charge an EV?

2. The batteries require rare earth materials for their production. Maybe no one has heard but they are called "rare" for a reason. These are also required in the manufacture of everything that is electronic. That includes computers, mobile phone, Internet Network (Switches, Servers etc.) and Televisions.

 

Are the people going to sacrifice the above for a car that has inherent problems and will cost serious amount of money when the batteries will, and they will, need to be replaced?

[Bandersnatch]

11 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

How exactly is the required electricity going to be provided?

Currently Crypto mining uses more energy than EV charging which is mostly done at night at times of low demand or like me from solar in the middle of the day.
 

My EV has bi-directional charging so I could feed back to the grid at times of peak demand, when Thailand allows it.

 

[Bandersnatch]

17 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Also has anyone considered the following:

1. Many people do not live in houses where a charger can be installed so how are they going to charge an EV?

Believe it or not these problems are being solved.

 

some pictures for you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bandersnatch]

21 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

2. The batteries require rare earth materials for their production. Maybe no one has heard but they are called "rare" for a reason.

Can you please post which Cathode Battery chemistries require Rare Earth Elements?

 

To get you started this is mine FeLiO4P Lithium iron phosphate.

 

 

 

 

[Photoguy21]

The Lithium batteries they use