Michael Cohen says he inflated assets to ‘whatever number Trump told us to’

[TheFishman1]

I remember reading an article where a journalist for a magazine had a phone call and Trump gave a different name and explain how Trump should be raised on the list of millionaires. Trump is always lied he’s a ConMan Trump will go down in history as the worst president in the history of all America he should go to jail for numerous reasons.

[candide]

28 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

The FBI says it found 113 classified emails that were mishandled

 "Contrary to her sworn testimony, Secretary Clinton sent and received emails that were marked classified at the time." – James Comey FBI

Clinton's use of a private email system and a private server violated federal law, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 1924, regarding the unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or materials, as well as State Department protocols and procedures ...

The Clinton campaign previously had indicated that her personal emails were deleted before Clinton received a congressional subpoena on March 4, 2015. But the FBI said her emails were deleted “between March 25-31, 2015” — three weeks after the subpoena

Now who did the government choose to prosecute for a what they perceive as a boastful representation of asset value versus actions that clearly were willful violations of the law.

 

President Clinton admits he lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky in 2001

 

IRS criminal supervisory special agent Gary Shapley, told lawmakers that the Justice Department's tax division and the prosecutors handling the Biden probe viewed the deductions as "a slam dunk case" of tax fraud.

 

Biden also made $18,000 in wire payments to another woman, using coded language to conceal the purpose of the transaction. Another payment of $10,000, labeled as a "golf club member deposit," was actually for a sex club membership.

 

In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

Now tell me how the banks were so hurt by any falsification of Trumps net worth versus outright lying under oath, falsifying tax returns, and stuffing classified documents in your pants and how those were treated. 

If Trump was not in politics using Comey's words, no reasonable prosecutor would ever bring the case. 

Using Comey as an example, there was a woman who lied under oath and was sent to jail her name was Martha Stewart.  Guess who prosecuted her for lying.  None other than James Comey.  

This is all political.  You bring charges, no matter how far fetched or trivial and you keep your opponent bottled up in litigation. 

But, but..... deflections

[BusyB]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I suggest my 34 years as an executive officer for major banks including Bank of America is a bit broader than yours. 

Basic Law  an "injured party" brings action.  If anyone was injured it was the banks.  That would be who the "false statements" were make to.  Did the banks bring the action or did Trumps' political enemies. 

Now if I say I own a piece of property and I did not own it.  That is fraud.  If I place a value of $10 million on it and years later you claim it was only worth $5 million and I committed fraud that is purely subjective. 

This is purely a case of poltiical vindictiveness.  No bank brought any claims of not being paid by Trump and being injured by his financial statements. 

This is Stalinist. 

 

Fraud is fraud. Irrespective of 'harmed parties'. This sounds like BS sovcit stuff.

[earlinclaifornia]

,

[earlinclaifornia]

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

As I have previously stated.  This is a political witch hunt.  The "injured" party would be the bank.  They were not injured.  They also should be the one to bring the lawsuit claiming fraud.  They did not. 

Who did.  His political opponents. 

This is like the IRS finding a taxpayer paid all of his taxes but had innacurate information on the returns that didn't impact the taxes due, then claiming a false tax return. 

The underlying premise of a fraud is that it causes people to lose money.  A fraud with no victim not a crime.  The valuations are subjective and they were accepted by the bank.  

The government now coming in after the fact and second guessing the bank is purely weaponizing government. 

If the bank was injured due to any fabrication in my opinion that would be different. 

This really is no different than when Hunter Biden was charged with making false statements on a gun purchase.  Few if any are ever prosecuted.  Biden was targeted strictly because he was Biden.  Trump targeted strictly because he is Trump and he has political enemies.  

MAGA has a sad time excusing his torrid actions ongoing. Safe to say they just make up any falsehood to enamor the top liar in Chef. BS is still BS even when you find yourself crying like a baby does.

[Chomper Higgot]

45 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Since you mention the law,  tell me how the law applied to these. 

 

The FBI says it found 113 classified emails that were mishandled

 "Contrary to her sworn testimony, Secretary Clinton sent and received emails that were marked classified at the time." – James Comey FBI

Clinton's use of a private email system and a private server violated federal law, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 1924, regarding the unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or materials, as well as State Department protocols and procedures ...

The Clinton campaign previously had indicated that her personal emails were deleted before Clinton received a congressional subpoena on March 4, 2015. But the FBI said her emails were deleted “between March 25-31, 2015” — three weeks after the subpoena

Now who did the government choose to prosecute for a what they perceive as a boastful representation of asset value versus actions that clearly were willful violations of the law.

 

President Clinton admits he lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky in 2001

 

IRS criminal supervisory special agent Gary Shapley, told lawmakers that the Justice Department's tax division and the prosecutors handling the Biden probe viewed the deductions as "a slam dunk case" of tax fraud.

 

Biden also made $18,000 in wire payments to another woman, using coded language to conceal the purpose of the transaction. Another payment of $10,000, labeled as a "golf club member deposit," was actually for a sex club membership.

 

In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

It think that comes under the statute of whataboutary.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

I’m rather looking forward to the laws relating to Bankruptcy coming into play sometime shortly after Trump is handed his penalty. 

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

As I said, to the best of my knowledge none of the valuations being argued over today involve any loans not being repaid. 

As to the banks actions, did you ever hear of Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  Creditors often find it preferable to continue to fund a struggling organization to get some repayment versus siezing assets. 

One way or another, the bank and as said, I was a bank executive for many years, you do not take customers financial statements at face value.  If you loan money against a home, it has an appraisal.  If you loan against business assets, they are appraised.  If you loan against a car, it has a blue book value. 

 

There were appraisals, only problem was that the persons who did them were paid to use Trump's input and not the real value. 

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

As I said, to the best of my knowledge none of the valuations being argued over today involve any loans not being repaid. 

As to the banks actions, did you ever hear of Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  Creditors often find it preferable to continue to fund a struggling organization to get some repayment versus siezing assets. 

One way or another, the bank and as said, I was a bank executive for many years, you do not take customers financial statements at face value.  If you loan money against a home, it has an appraisal.  If you loan against business assets, they are appraised.  If you loan against a car, it has a blue book value. 

 

Trump still has loads of money outstanding at banks.

 

Bankers used to take loads of money from coke syndicates too until they were forced to report transactions higher than a certain amount of money. 

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

This is such BS.  I am a former bank executive.  When financial statements are sent in to a bank for a loan they have to be accompanied by appraisals.  

You don't loan money against a building unless it is appraised typically by bonifide cash flow reports that supports it valuation. 

I personally have bought businesses and financed them.  I was required to get the value of the business appraised and submitted as part of my application for the loan. 

Do you really believe if someone, anyone walked into a bank and said, hey look I have properties worth $10 billion dollars that the bank would not question the validity of them and take them the valuation at face value. 

Another point, to the best of my knowledge any of the loans that are being questioned are not in default.  So irrespective of what those properties are worth how is the bank harmed.  It loaned money and is getting it paid back. 

 

Having worked in major banks and major investment firms, I think you are painting far too bright a picture of how banks operate and assess loan applications.

 

Perhaps you've heard of the subprime crisis that blew up in 2008? Certainly banks absolutely did not, and do not, get accurate appraisals as well as do thorough vetting of the borrowers ability to repay. If they did, Lehman, Countrywide, Bear Stearns, IndyMac, Wachovia and other financial institutions, or insurers like AMBAC wouldn't have gone belly up.

 

Also, appraisal firms are not exactly always accurate nor honest. "What do you need it to be worth?" is part of many appraisal firms arsenal. Same with Rating Agencies like S&P or Moodys.

 

Incentives like bonuses tend to affect loan applications and appraisals.

 

Finally, in a loan application the potential borrower attests to the accuracy of statements 'to the best of his knowledge'.  trump certainly knew the apartment he lived in was not 33,000 sf, but rather 10,997. He signed documents, however, claiming the inflated size, and hence value.

 

Thus: Fraud

Edited October 25, 2023 by Walker88

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Making false statements is a crime. However the loan payments do have a bearing on it.  Where is the injury to the bank?  

 

 

 

Part of the 'injury' is opportunity cost. trump's rate of interest should have been higher, since his assets were not worth what the bank utilized when setting his i rate. Same with insurers; their premium demand should have been higher.

 

The income would have been higher. That is the 'injury'.

[Presnock]

Yes, Trump ordered his financial "wizards" to inflate the value of all his properties when he was applying for loans.  One example is his Trump Tower apartment - 10,000 square feet but he claimed 30,000 square feet and jacked up the cost even more then.  And yes, he

always paid the banks in question.  But they only have a certain amount of funds to loan and Trump used up most quotas.  Then, when tax time rolled around, he deflated the values of his properties- this time TAX fraud too on top of the original fraud.  Since so many witnesses provided information to the Attorney General, she ruled him and his companies guilty of fraud.  Now they are trying

to determine how much damages he should pay plus, his business licenses for New York are no longer valid and he and his family can

no longer operate there.  He wanted to higher inflated values so that he could be rated higher in the FORBES magazine of richest Americans!  He since has dropped out of that magazine as fraudulent valuations aren't included in one's worth!  Hopefully he will be

as guilty in the other cases - especially now that he stopped funding their lawyers so they got one more concerned with this client instead of Trump dictating what the lawyer should be doing.  Most of them immediately are advised to work a plea deal with the

prosecution as they have another "open and shut" (for you non-English speakers this means an easy to close case due to sufficient

evidence.   Imagine how funny it will look as he takes the oath (if he wins of course) wearing prison orange suit! 

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

Since you mention the law,  tell me how the law applied to these. 

 

The FBI says it found 113 classified emails that were mishandled

 "Contrary to her sworn testimony, Secretary Clinton sent and received emails that were marked classified at the time." – James Comey FBI

Clinton's use of a private email system and a private server violated federal law, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 1924, regarding the unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or materials, as well as State Department protocols and procedures ...

The Clinton campaign previously had indicated that her personal emails were deleted before Clinton received a congressional subpoena on March 4, 2015. But the FBI said her emails were deleted “between March 25-31, 2015” — three weeks after the subpoena

Now who did the government choose to prosecute for a what they perceive as a boastful representation of asset value versus actions that clearly were willful violations of the law.

 

President Clinton admits he lied under oath about his affair with Monica Lewinsky in 2001

 

IRS criminal supervisory special agent Gary Shapley, told lawmakers that the Justice Department's tax division and the prosecutors handling the Biden probe viewed the deductions as "a slam dunk case" of tax fraud.

 

Biden also made $18,000 in wire payments to another woman, using coded language to conceal the purpose of the transaction. Another payment of $10,000, labeled as a "golf club member deposit," was actually for a sex club membership.

 

In April 2005, Berger pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington, D.C.

A degree in Whataboutism from trump U?

 

On HRC's server she had docs classifed CONFIDENTIAL and one or two SECRET.

 

trump stole docs with much higher classifications, including TS/SCI, Codeword, SAP, HCS and RD. HUGE difference.

 

Nothing HRC had in any way could jeopardize national security, whereas everything trump stole seems to have been specifically chosen because of its importance in matters of national security.

 

trump also liked about returning docs, and as we are now learning, he shared highly senstive intel on US nuclear sub capabilities with a mar-a-lago member, who subsequently has told 45 people.

 

Intel officers from hostile nations---like China's MSS---are members of mar-a-lago. I suspect any intel chief would approve the $200K membership fee for any case officer who wanted to join the club, knowing how careless, cavalier and dishonest trump is.

 

I wonder why a country club owner and wedding planner needed such documents. HCS? Even as POTUS he should not have those, but I suspect one of the lackeys he appointed as DNI (Grenell or Ratcliffe) gave him those.

 

As for declassification---2 points---1) there is a set procedure and paper trail for declassification. trump did not do it, so he lied when one of his early excuses was "I declassified everything with my mind", and 2) not even a POTUS can declassify RD; only Dept of Energy.

[Tropposurfer]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Making false statements is a crime. However the loan payments do have a bearing on it.  Where is the injury to the bank?  

If Trump was not being persecuted because he is hated by the left, the bank which ostensibly is the injured party would not be bringing the action.  This is purely political BS.  

The bank if the financial statements were false is also guilty of not performing its duty to verify. 

If you pull virtually any financial statement from any loan you can argue that it is not 100% accurate.  As to valuations of buildings.  They are all "subjective"  The valuation can only be established at the time of sale.  Further, valuations fluctuate wildly from period to period.  

When I was doing assessing valuations for accounts back in the 1980's huge blocks of real estate we deemed as worthy of "holding" for future appreciation.  In truth we couldn't give those buildings away Texas oil crashed and building valuations were a joke because no one wanted them at any price.  Today, those same buildings are worth hundreds of milllions.  So did we  the bankers make a mistake in calling those buildings worthwhile holdings.  Pure subjectivity.  

 

Ya can't fix stupid n ignorant.

The law is quite clear.

Opinions such as yours, mine, and others here matter nought. The law is quite clear. Trumps engagement in massive financial fraud and to conspire to do so has been established beyond doubt under clear stated law.

 

You are right in inferring that its 'normal business' for much of US business to stiff everyone and walk away free. Let us remember the sub-prime debacle that plunged the US and the world into chaos. However, frequency and consistency of same unlawful behaviours does not excuse them.

 

The ruling and laws consulted before making those rulings are not someones opinion based on political or personal bias. These rulings have been under the statutes of law.

 

Inflating a properties value over 100 times or more then for tax reasons devaluing it by even more (it was a contrived and deliberate conspiracy to do so!)  is not a matter of 'valuers subjective opinion' (aint' that some total BS), it is fraud.

 

For me personally I don't care who it is Trump, Pelosi, Boris Johnson, Biden, that fella Democrat who just got busted for serious fraud and expelled from the Democratic Party, Murdoch, <deleted> stealing PPE money during the epidemic, Bezos stiffing and enslaving his workers, that <deleted> who owns Starbucks and refused to pay his workers a living wage ... whoever.

 

No one has the right to defraud the People of tax moneys rightfully and properly to be paid. No one has the legal right to defraud investors, put banks at severe risk, AND knowingly doing so in a contrived scheme to do so which opens up real risk of crushing mom-n-pop investor/shareholders, banks, workers, and contractors of right and correct payment of money owed them.

 

Trump has given the US and hopefully the world a gift in exposing to us all his sociopathic greed and madness.

An awakening to how enslaved we are and how the lie of trickle-down economics as the basis of capitalism is false, a lie, pernicious, crippling, murderous, and unworkable.

[HappyExpat57]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Making false statements is a crime. However the loan payments do have a bearing on it.  Where is the injury to the bank?  

If Trump was not being persecuted because he is hated by the left, the bank which ostensibly is the injured party would not be bringing the action.  This is purely political BS.  

The bank if the financial statements were false is also guilty of not performing its duty to verify. 

If you pull virtually any financial statement from any loan you can argue that it is not 100% accurate.  As to valuations of buildings.  They are all "subjective"  The valuation can only be established at the time of sale.  Further, valuations fluctuate wildly from period to period.  

When I was doing assessing valuations for accounts back in the 1980's huge blocks of real estate we deemed as worthy of "holding" for future appreciation.  In truth we couldn't give those buildings away Texas oil crashed and building valuations were a joke because no one wanted them at any price.  Today, those same buildings are worth hundreds of milllions.  So did we  the bankers make a mistake in calling those buildings worthwhile holdings.  Pure subjectivity.  

 

You're trying to make a case about the real world. The tangerine traffic cone of treason has lived on planet Earth-2 his whole life. I am sure if his name was attached to a deal, it was assumed to be dirty but it better damned well go through or that maniac could make your life hell. How many lives has be destroyed, how many careers failed because he gave a thumbs down? We'll never really know.

[HappyExpat57]

I never thought I'd live to see it, but I think that low life is finally gonna get his come-uppins. Too many walls closing in, too many co-conspirators pleading guilty.

 

And to anyone still trying to defend him - C'MON! You can't make this stuff up, he can't be the ONLY ONE not guilty, for cryin' out loud!

[Walker88]

Just now, HappyExpat57 said:

I never thought I'd live to see it, but I think that low life is finally gonna get his come-uppins. Too many walls closing in, too many co-conspirators pleading guilty.

 

And to anyone still trying to defend him - C'MON! You can't make this stuff up, he can't be the ONLY ONE not guilty, for cryin' out loud!

His comeuppance could be so potentially severe that he will welcome the safely of a jail cell.

 

Most of his recent financing came via SIVs from Deutsch Bank. SIVs are "Special Investment Vehicles" and are off balance sheet. Parties with cash are one side, a borrower is the other, with DB taking a fee for setting up the SIV. For trump the parties with funds are russian oligarchs. donny, jr and eric made comments stating this in the past, as in "We get all the funding we need from russia".

 

If trump loses his NY properties, he's going to have a lot of trouble repaying his SIV borrowings. The folks whose money he will not be able to repay are not kind and gentle sorts. They will peel his skin off just as a warm-up.

 

Leavenworth for his classified doc felonies will be looking like a nice safehaven.

 

"Please, your honor; I'm guilty as sin. Jail me. NOW!"

[scottiejohn]

6 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Where is the injury to the bank?  

Why does the bank need to suffer injury.  It only needs the Fraudster to gain!

From WiKi and other sources

"In law, fraud is intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain, or to deprive a victim of a legal right. Fraud can violate civil law (e.g., a fraud victim may sue the fraud perpetrator to avoid the fraud or recover monetary compensation) or criminal law (e.g., a fraud perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities), or it may cause no loss of money, property, or legal right but still be an element of another civil or criminal wrong. The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, for example by obtaining a passport, travel document, or driver's license, or mortgage fraud, where the perpetrator may attempt to qualify for a mortgage by way of false statements."

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by scottiejohn
Highleted text

[JCauto]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Yes they are.  And who made the valuations?  People don't appraise their own properties.  If Trump pledged assets 1. They had to be supported by outside valuations. 2. They had to be reviewed and approved by the banks lending officer.

Still bottom line. The valuations are irrelevant if the debt was repaid.  

This is so completely wrong it brings into question your validity as a supposed "senior bank executive". They have to understand the law, and know that there is no such thing as the "injured party" having to be the one bringing the fraud charges or that "valuations are irrelevant if the debt was repaid". You're quite full of something.

[mrfill]

8 hours ago, Social Media said:

Trump, who attended the trial on Tuesday, dismissed Cohen as a “proven liar”

 

Takes one to know one.....

[Purdey]

So many contradicting legal opinions. Perhaps we should wait for the court case?

[Caldera]

8 hours ago, Social Media said:

Trump, who attended the trial on Tuesday, dismissed Cohen as a “proven liar”

 

Well, THAT they both have in common. 

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Well, THAT they both have in common. 

Well, for a long time Trump ordered Cohen to lie for him. Trump, on the other hand, has been a pathological liar all his life, lying comes as natural to him as breathing. Slight difference….

[Presnock]

11 hours ago, Purdey said:

So many contradicting legal opinions. Perhaps we should wait for the court case?

The case has already been proven!  He has been declared guilty of fraud.  Now this trial is about how much money he must

fork over!  No matter how well schooled one may be in law, one must know the laws of the particular court location.  He broke

those laws of FRAUD, that is why he was found guilty and his business license has been suspended.

[bendejo]

The commercial real estate market in the NYC area has a long reputation for being a snake pit.  DT is just one of a whole culture of these grifters.  And not all of them comport themselves as a cross between a mafia don and a Bond villain.

 

[Berkshire]

18 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

You're trying to make a case about the real world. The tangerine traffic cone of treason has lived on planet Earth-2 his whole life. I am sure if his name was attached to a deal, it was assumed to be dirty but it better damned well go through or that maniac could make your life hell. How many lives has be destroyed, how many careers failed because he gave a thumbs down? We'll never really know.

"The tangerine traffic cone of treason".....5555 good one.

[HappyExpat57]

53 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

"The tangerine traffic cone of treason".....5555 good one.

Credit goes to Stephen Colbert.

[FritsSikkink]

22 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

Part of the 'injury' is opportunity cost. trump's rate of interest should have been higher, since his assets were not worth what the bank utilized when setting his i rate. Same with insurers; their premium demand should have been higher.

 

The income would have been higher. That is the 'injury'.

Very strange that a long term banker needs to ask that question.

[pomchop]

I can't remember the last witch hunt that found so many witches and more and more of them are pleading guilty every day...

 

All the trumpers and all the hot air they blow about donnie being persecuted does not eliminate the FACTS that little perfect donnie was and is up to his eyeballs in breaking all kinds of laws and very simply is the president that is the biggest conman, liar, and yes criminal ever to sit in the white house.  Simply put even if poor little perfect donnie was being persecuted it would go NOWHERE without the documents, testimony, and FACTS that are and will be presented in court.

 

Even in spite of all of his crimes all he had to do was after losing 60 court cases and repeated recounts and investigations is admit that yes he lost, leave the white house without taking a pile of classified documents, not attempt a coup and go back to mar a largo and shut the F up.  If he had done that I highly doubt he would be contemplating an orange jumpsuit.

 

His problems are HIS doing no matter how much delusional followers whine about how unfair it all is.

[Danderman123]

On 10/25/2023 at 7:13 AM, Longwood50 said:

As I have previously stated.  This is a political witch hunt.  The "injured" party would be the bank.  They were not injured.  They also should be the one to bring the lawsuit claiming fraud.  They did not. 

Who did.  His political opponents. 

This is like the IRS finding a taxpayer paid all of his taxes but had innacurate information on the returns that didn't impact the taxes due, then claiming a false tax return. 

The underlying premise of a fraud is that it causes people to lose money.  A fraud with no victim not a crime.  The valuations are subjective and they were accepted by the bank.  

You really worked for a bank?

 

Do you understand that loan interest rates are partially based on the valuation of applicant assets?

 

Don't you think it's good public policy to ensure that valuations are not fraudulent?