Managing forum toxicity and negativity

[george]

I posted this in another thread, but If you missed it. Note the last sentence about banning,

----

 

I can assure you that a lot has happened behind the scenes in regards to how we are moderating this community, and the moderating mindset HAS changed to the better since some 3 months back.

 

We are simply not so strict with warnings and banning anymore. The moderating team are these days just hiding offensive topics instead of banning members. A changed mindset, I assure you.

 

All banning of members must have management pre-approval (except for blatant spam, lese majeste posts and obvious abuse etc).

[noobexpat]

Fairly new here. Its a bit of a free for all sh*t show to be honest.

Not what i expected.

Anonymous emoji trolling everywhere.

I already hate everybody 555

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ignoring a post one does not agree with is a better option than abusing the poster one disagrees with.

This is a social forum and not the united nations, and posters should remember that when posting. There is no rule that says other posters should agree with one's own opinions, and resorting to abuse is pathetic.

 

The other thing is that just repeating the same thing over and over does not prove one's case, and if one wants one's "facts" to be respected, one takes the time to support one's "facts" rather than ignoring requests to do so, or telling other people to do the research, or giving some smart a*** comment to avoid having to support one's opinion.

Agree with most of that, but I'm not going to keep repeat posting the same links, over & over, to counter an obvious troll post.  If someone asks me for a link or source, especially if it's a common sense thought, then I'll probably simply ignore them, considering the source of the request.

 

If I post or state something, that usually means I know it to be a fact, or researched it prior.  I've even posted my personal experience, and been told I'm wrong ... go figure

Edited November 10, 2023 by KhunLA

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Shop mak said:

Currently, a handful of members create new topics in the Pub that are constant drivel, all about nothing.

Clearly took less than 30 seconds to write.

Then follows hostile banter, personal attacks, page after page.

This has been going on for some time already, and many members has commented on this.

 

These handful members who do nothing else than post drivel, should be on Full Moderation (moderator approved, before thread / post become visible).

 

Forums want traffic, preferable quality content that engage members and readers.

Not nonsense drivel that mostly result in flaming trolling, multiple personal attacks. Plenty of this now, and increasing.

 

Moderation is very complicated. Some other forum previously banned left and right for years, and lost many valuable quality members. 

Those forum become famous for banning. As a result, less new members, less traffic.

 

I believe that moderators should use Personal Message more often to warn individual members.

 

Then increasing posting holiday for members who already received and ignored formal warnings given in PM.

 

Some moderators are too strict, they've been moderator for too long.

 

Example, I wrote a post where I made a joke about myself with a image (old man with a walking cane) I am old and after surgery, I needed a walking cane. This was lost on moderator, and post removed by a certain mod that members consider 'extremely strict'.

 

Moderators should have a lifespan, as they become judgmental and over time some act too strict.

Other forums required a minimum of 2 mods to agree, before action was taken. Only Admins had the power to ban.

 

Luckily, some mods are excellent, balanced moderation, have a good sense of humor and make jokes with the members. 

 

The Handbook is Excellent read, and toxicity is on a all time high, currently.

 

Community Pub should be hidden from public view, and access only on request from members.

I'm constantly "surprised" at how many posters click on a thread, read it all and then complain about it, as if they were forced to read it. Don't like it just leave it and don't go back on, OR put the poster on ignore. Simple really.

 

toxicity is on a all time high, currently.

Nah. Toxicity has always been a thing as long as I've been on TVF/ AN. The forum was apparently quite notorious for it.

I learned early on to not go on any threads about people being arrested for child abuse or such like as the language would have shocked the Marquis de Sade.

[roo860]

15 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

To George: (for your kind consideration):

 

The newsfeed selection of news stories plays a decided role in encouraging toxicity, which works against your stated goal of expanding user numbers. The problem is twofold.

 

First, there are too many news reports which encourage disrespect for Thailand and Thai culture, i.e., a steady diet of stories about misbehaving monks, lottery numbers being chosen based on animist beliefs, child rape, incest, and sex crimes, assaults by ladyboys, rogue cops, and above all, any story which invites disparagement of Thai males. These stories invariably elicit Thai bashing which is probably the number one source of toxicity on the forum.

 

Secondly, news stories about foreigners who are not Caucasian are too often negative, pander to stereotypes, and encourage racial and ethnic bashing. Few non-Caucasian English speaking visitors to the site will stick around when they are subjected to this type of constant abuse. The changing demographics of the ex-pat and tourist populations need to be given far more weight if your goal is to expand the forum user base. 

 

What makes matters worse is that only the most egregious cases of Thai bashing and non-Caucasian bashing are ever proactively addressed. 

 

On another note, I don't think the "mindless banter" versus "thoughtful intelligent discourse" schism can simply be solved with judicious use of the "ignore" button. I think you are grossly underestimating how alienating and how much resentment is felt towards "mindless banter" posters who are perceived as clogging up and and sucking the oxygen out of so many threads, so as to make them unreadable. Also, please keep in mind that many people who browse this forum start out as non-members and remain non-members for a long time and are thus unaware of the ignored user function, and there are many joined members who would prefer to browse without logging in.

 

In terms of your efforts to rebuild the membership base of the forum, I would also like to point out that the amount of advertising on this forum plays a role in whether quality posters are attracted to the site. If the site is hopelessly clogged with advertisements and you end up with a stiff shoulder and wrist because you're constantly having to close pop-up ads, well.... you end up with a membership base who has nothing better to do with their time and are willing to put up with being bombarded with advertisements. What I'm saying is that the calculus about number of ads versus making the forum more user friendly may be playing a role in what types of posters are attracted to the website, and thus the level of toxicity on the website. I have described the level of ads on this forum as "sadistic" in the past, especially when you consider the age of many users. I'm just saying, if you want to expand the number of users, perhaps the user-friendliness of the website vis-a-vis the advertisements, needs to be looked at.

 

In terms of emojis, I think making these anonymous was a mistake. Anonymity short-circuits the sense of community and relationship building that liking one another's posts built, and also encourages the misuse of the "laugh" and "sad face" emojis.

'disrespect for Thailand and Thai culture, i.e., a steady diet of stories about misbehaving monks, lottery numbers being chosen based on animist beliefs, child rape, incest, and sex crimes, assaults by ladyboys, rogue cops, and above all, any story which invites disparagement of Thai males. These stories invariably elicit Thai bashing which is probably the number one source of toxicity on the forum'

 

You watch the Thai news? Especially in the morning, Channel 32, they cover all this on a daily basis, so what's the problem?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I've even posted my personal experience, and been told I'm wrong ... go figure

The ones that amuse me are the ones that claim to know what I'm thinking, as if they are wired into my brain. Some of the things they say about me are incredible, not forgetting completely wrong. They could ask me if I think ......... about a certain subject, but they just make it up and post it like it's a fact.

[Pouatchee]

5 hours ago, george said:

Wow! Thanks a lot for the early feedback on this.

 

I’m following this topic with great interest as we have actually radically changed how moderation has changed to the better during the last 3 months or so.
 

If you haven’t noticed the changes I’ll be  happy to discuss more about this, but in the meantime keep posting your ideas here. On mobile right now with fat fingers.

🙏

 

 

 

 

 

 

i cant believe you got confused emojis after such an honest and heartfelt post. 

 

george... i got banned for giving a confused emoji to one of the moderators once or twice... what is the take on that?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, roo860 said:

'disrespect for Thailand and Thai culture, i.e., a steady diet of stories about misbehaving monks, lottery numbers being chosen based on animist beliefs, child rape, incest, and sex crimes, assaults by ladyboys, rogue cops, and above all, any story which invites disparagement of Thai males. These stories invariably elicit Thai bashing which is probably the number one source of toxicity on the forum'

 

You watch the Thai news? Especially in the morning, Channel 32, they cover all this on a daily basis, so what's the problem?

Many of the people on the forum don't live in Thailand, and have no interest in such. I did live in Thailand and never watched Thai news.

 

These stories invariably elicit Thai bashing which is probably the number one source of toxicity on the forum

I agree 100% about the Thai bashing, but it's not the number one source of toxicity on the forum. That IMO are the Trump threads, or at least they used to be till Ukraine and recently Gaza happened.

 

Along the same lines, why does the "World News" involve so many threads about Trump? It's like Trump is the only thing happening on the planet sometimes. Hardly any threads about parts of the world other than America, and sometimes about Britain, unless of course there is a war going on, though I saw nothing about the Sudanese conflict. What about the situation in Mali, in France, Singapore etc. The forum doesn't have to put up threads about them, of course, but then all the threads should be put in the relevant sub sections. If American or British threads are not put in the relevant sub section, what's the point of the sub sections?

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, fondue zoo said:

 

wait, which one is low brow again?

 

never mind, bodily functions, humiliation etc. Well, there goes 85% of poster material right there.

 

 

 

I actually happen to agree with you, wholeheartedly.

I have never much appreciated lowbrow humor.

When one chooses to go lowbrow, one completely loses the part of humor that keeps us entertained.

Humans, most of us, anyway, were born with brains.

Unfortunately, some human brains atrophy more quickly than other human brains.

Keep the humor intellectually stimulating, and I will be satisfied.

Or, what I really mean is to keep the humor intellectually provocative.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by GammaGlobulin

[george]

4 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

 

i cant believe you got confused emojis after such an honest and heartfelt post. 

 

george... i got banned for giving a confused emoji to one of the moderators once or twice... what is the take on that?

If that happens again, please let me know via PM.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Goat said:

There probably a single person more connected than the Goat. i know about your story and who caused it. Very unfair.

If there is anything you need to know feel free to ask me.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

39 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Anonymity short-circuits the sense of community and relationship building that liking one another's posts built, and also encourages the misuse of the "laugh" and "sad face" emojis.

Being known didn't stop a certain poster from following me around on the forum and putting laugh emojis on every post I made.

[gargamon]

21 minutes ago, roo860 said:

You watch the Thai news? Especially in the morning, Channel 32, they cover all this on a daily basis, so what's the problem?

You want that stuff? Then go watch it on channel 32. No need to see it here. 

[MrPancake]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Unfortunately, certain posters are unable to not insult posters they disagree with and just discuss the topic. Some don't even make a post with any relevance to the topic at all as happens frequently on posts about Trump- just insults about Trump, and then there are the posters that put Trump in posts on threads that don't even have him in the topic.

 

If I had one wish, it'd be that posters stop making posts about the person they are responding to, and discuss the topic instead, but some never discuss the topic and just abuse the poster they disagree with.

 

If I start talking about myself, then respond in kind, but if I haven't personal comments are not welcome, and that's even in the forum rules.

 

That's normal. The very natural of politics is intellectual conflicts. Heated arguments is the bedrock of healthy democratic debate. That brings me to you choosing this specific example. I don't think it very representative of what's going on generally speaking in the AN pub.

 

As for insulting I would make a distinction between people winding each other up in a kind of fraternal way and people being plain nasty. Again hygienism should be avoided. Otherwise the entire place will end up with a woke mindset with idiots feeling offended all the time for no reasonable reasons, people getting banned because they say something without sourcing even the most obvious things (happens to me the other day with inflation in the housing sector) and things like that.

 

Humans are what they are, the current system is what it is, Thailand is what it is, the farang crowd is what it is. This forum isn't gonna change any of that. Most people that I meet in real life don't even know about it (btw I was quiet surprised at first).

 

We should all participate in the threads we want and leave others participate in whatever they are interested in even if we think it's dumb. For example people talking about property in Thailand, their EV car, etc... bore me to death so I just don't participate in their threads. On the other hand I'm always having a laugh when discussing topics like bar girls, random news, thai-farang relationships, the latest TAT strategy, idiotic political debates, etc...

 

I also like to provoke reactions using humor or borderline subtext, etc... Too much correctness ends up in conformist garbage, usually pretty conservative, with all inconvenient truths being swept under the rug. This eventually leads to pensée unique. As I understand it reading veteran users, this forum has been suffering from it for ages with harsh moderation and a subsequent massive exodus of "quality users".

[Pouatchee]

45 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'll discuss any topic with anyone.   But not repetitive false narratives.  Then you're simply trolling, and get ignored.   Since I read & replied to this, I reckon you haven't made it to that level yet 

 

george for president 2024

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

 

i cant believe you got confused emojis after such an honest and heartfelt post. 

 

george... i got banned for giving a confused emoji to one of the moderators once or twice... what is the take on that?

While I'm not George, obviously, I can answer that. It was regarded as commenting on moderation, which is against the rules, and certain mods seemed to enjoy suspending posters for any reason, or perhaps it was only certain posters that they liked suspending.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, MrPancake said:

On the other hand I'm always having a laugh when discussing topics like bar girls, random news, thai-farang relationships, the latest TAT strategy, idiotic political debates,

The most interesting threads to me were about bar girls, katoeys, Thai farang relationships, farang farang relationships, women in general, western or Thai women specifically, scams, places to go etc, but many seemed to dry up a while ago. Anything about women and katoeys still attract a lot of posters.

My first suspension was for talking about politics despite myself disagreeing it was about politics, so one needs to be careful where one discusses politics on here.

[MrPancake]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The most interesting threads to me were about bar girls, katoeys, Thai farang relationships, farang farang relationships, women in general, western or Thai women specifically, scams, places to go etc, but many seemed to dry up a while ago. Anything about women and katoeys still attract a lot of posters.

My first suspension was for talking about politics despite myself disagreeing it was about politics, so one needs to be careful where one discusses politics on here.

 

I feel you. Those topics are definitely the funniest. I also like posts by phony people like that one time when a guy posted "My problem is that I can't spend enough money in Thailand" lol Those agent provocateurs crack me up every time.

 

Frankly I would say it's pretty easy to figure what is political or not. Anything based on values rather than cold data is political. Essentially everything is political except hard science.

 

[sammieuk1]

1 hour ago, george said:

 

Yes,

A few "hard core" mods has indeed departed. The team is now acting with a new mindset. We did gaffes in the past, I agree, much less so now. You could always PM me if you want a "second opinion". I'm here for developing this community to be a better place.

Umm not my experience though 🤔

 

[Pouatchee]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While I'm not George, obviously, I can answer that. It was regarded as commenting on moderation, which is against the rules, and certain mods seemed to enjoy suspending posters for any reason, or perhaps it was only certain posters that they liked suspending.

this guy suspended me also for posting a picture i too in the thai cultural museum (forgot the exact name). the picture was about the marechal who was in power during ww2. i was blocked for lese majeste... the pic had nothing to do with thai royalty and it was from a thai museum both in english and thai...

 

i gotta say i am glad things are changing and i am glad to see the back of some of the mods. charlie seems a cool dude, sheryl and crossy too...  scott was pretty good and fair too

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think you just proved the point i was making.

Show me where I have used abuse and vile language in the post.

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

What is worrying about a certain clique of posters they will surround another poster like a pack of hyenas and keep snarling at him until they've had their pound of flesh.

They are simply internet predators and we just have to ignore them. They can't really do us any harm, unless one is very thin skinned. You really can't take anything that they're saying seriously. Goofballs. 

[ChrisKC]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

I think it is high time to allow the use of words that are consider rude or impolite by many of the modes, i mean this is 2023 where coarse language is used almost anywhere even in respectable institutions...

NO!

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

If I post or state something, that usually means I know it to be a fact, or researched it prior.  I've even posted my personal experience, and been told I'm wrong ... go figure

IIRC you are the poster who claimed there was an ample supply of lithium for EV's, because the oceans were full of it. I pointed out one would have to process 55,000 tonnes of seawater at 100% efficiency to recover 1 kg of lithium, when the average EV battery needs 60 kg. I can't recall you admitting you were wrong.

[Tidal wave]

16 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Umm not my experience though 🤔

 

Did you ever get a reason to the font size being reduced to near invisible for some of us before the thread got closed?. 

[ChaiyaTH]

A forum like this only has a chance to thrive again, if the power is given to my generation (30s).

[Airalee]

Make the forum “pay 4 play”

฿50 per topic started

฿5 per comment

 

Hopefully, it might prevent

 

1.  Irrelevant off topic one line quips

2. People constantly policing others for spelling/grammar/opinions

3. People beating a dead horse in debates.

4. Asking stupid questions that are far more easily googled.

 

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

Just now, Airalee said:

Make the forum “pay 4 play”

฿50 per topic started

฿5 per comment

 

Hopefully, it might prevent

 

1.  Irrelevant off topic one line quips

2. People constantly policing others for spelling/grammar/opinions

3. People beating a dead horse in debates.

4. Asking stupid questions that are far more easily googled.

Perfect example of how to further destroy a forum ><

[Lee65]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

A forum like this only has a chance to thrive again, if the power is given to my generation (30s).

 

Earn it.  Your generation wants every thing given to them.

[2baht]

1 hour ago, george said:

A few "hard core" mods has indeed departed.

 

    Give us a hint George!