Managing forum toxicity and negativity

[Will B Good]

How about a no holds barred thread and the swivel eyes loons can all lay into each other to their heart's content?

[bignok]

Just now, Will B Good said:

How about a no holds barred thread and the swivel eyes loons can all lay into each other to their heart's content?

Yes.

[bignok]

6 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

 

Exactly! and many seem to have very selective memories, oftne if to troll about it.

Was Yinn a woman?

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, bignok said:

But people end up using the f word etc.

Football? I'm so confused.

[CharlieH]

14 minutes ago, bignok said:

Was Yinn a woman?

 

The honest answer to that, in my opinion, was that it was determined that another person, probably male was driving the content and probably had a female Thai wife/girfriend to enable them to spin it.

 

Initially when that username appeared it was given the benefit of the doubt and ALOT of leeway believed to be a female and in order to encourage participation. The longer it went on, the more the facade dropped.

 

Had it not been for the continual abuse / insults it may have lasted beyond 5 months.

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

How about a no holds barred thread and the swivel eyes loons can all lay into each other to their heart's content?

There used to be, The Bear Pit.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, RanongCat said:

What about cumulative and persistent derogatory sneers and snide accusations?

 

Ahh yes, him.

[Lacessit]

27 minutes ago, bignok said:

I agree. Have a Trump rant topic. A Climate nutters topic. 

Please explain what a climate nutter is. Or start a thread were you can demonstrate your knowledge.

[Shop mak]

1 hour ago, george said:

True. How should Mods handle these members? Be tough or lenient in moderating?

 

That are all forums major headache.

We have all noticed the new 'moderation form', that are more uniform. So even a strict mod now use copy paste message as warning, and that is much better.

 

While we have Admins and Mods attention

(big thank you for that),

Can the forum include Tags?

When a member create a OP, can we also add multiple tags relevant to the topic?

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Similar but personal - warning pm that basically blocks all further action on website until acknowledged. Poster is not suspended, banned or anything, but can't ignore the warning.

 

Already have and is used.

 

Ok, thanks. Didn't run into it this time around (yet).

[bignok]

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Football? I'm so confused.

Fantastic

[bignok]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Please explain what a climate nutter is. Or start a thread were you can demonstrate your knowledge.

Start your own topics. 

[Thorgal]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

 

Believe it or not the Mod team do try to be impartial and do not to my knowledge "favor" anyone, that said, we are human and I am not saying it cant happen. My comment on that would be is that if you feel there has been an instance of favoritism then make a report about it to Support, and they will look at it. 

 

A certain healthy favoritism is always acceptable and can be seen as a good marker in all sorts of relationships. But I think that TV moderation was going too far to mutate/transform this favoritism to offensive and defensive cronyism.

It started to develop in such way that argumentations of posters were unconditionally backed by some of the moderation. Posts could be removed or modified and posters could be suspended for multiple times. This was part of the informal ruling on TV.

 

I also understood that the high quantity of members at a certain time also allowed some of TV moderators to exaggerate in these informal ruling that made (many) posters quit TV.

 

Please check out online debates or complaints available of many who left TV and you will see that overall TV critics is not per se on the content that was available, but more on the treatment or injustice that happened for those who highlight the TV cronyism.

 

Being a neutral moderator is very difficult and, in some cases, even impossible. Many of us are also not the most polite, elegant or eloquent posters on TV/AN. But they’re also needed to boost or generate more “click-traffic”.

 

Problem that I have with AN is that public bullying is at a much higher frequency than TV. This bullying includes (and not limited to) : targeting alone or in group of an individual, gaslighting, harassment, name calling, racism, stalking, threatening, framing to get suspended, etc. Just watch the last 10 pages of “Israel is at War” topic to have an impression. Again, this works both ways: it generates a lot of “click-traffic” but some members can/should not be able to carry these personal attacks for a long time.

 

So my top 10 of reasons why people leave (and some stay) :

-          Cronyism: some posters are over-protected by moderation

-          Cronyism: some posters feel injustice and misunderstood

-          Cronyism: in some cases: POTY election

-          Unfair suspension and/or banning

-          Limited (political) international news

-          Bullying in person or in group by other posters

-          Low variety in posters with same interests or taste: for instance : no much (expat) women

-          Bad/unclear transition from TV to AN

-          There’s no sign of quality management and customer satisfaction process

-          Little or no criticism to moderation is allowed

 

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

stalking, threatening, framing to get suspended, etc. Just watch the last 10 pages of “Israel is at War” topic to have an

Why are all the world's political experts sitting in Pattaya? One wonders.

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

A couple of forums I was member/moderator of, there were two helpful features:

 

Moderators could post a warning (usually on topic expected to get out of hand) that posters had to click and acknowledge before commenting. Not on each and every post, but each time re-logging to website and wishing to post on topic. That cuts the 'i didn't know', 'I didn't see' excuses.

 

Similar but personal - warning pm that basically blocks all further action on website until acknowledged. Poster is not suspended, banned or anything, but can't ignore the warning.

 

Most times, the first measure was good enough to tone things down some, and we were able to set it to appear automatically every X posts, at the start of each page and so on.

 

 

Heavy handed moderation is no good, less said the better, like Facebook, barely see a moderator make a comment 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Please dont read if Yinn posts offend. 

 

I have posted about Yinn a couple of times. There are only a few posts on Yinn overall so hard to see how it could be a big deal.

 

To me Yinn, whoever the person was, was a perfect example of what made this forum interesting and fun. Debate without getting personal or bickering.  Discussing big topics with humour and a bit of drama but not taking things too seriously.  Taking, for example, the topic of mongering to task. Providing an alternative narrative and having a fairly fierce debate, without personal individual aspersions, or attempting to stop people discussing it in different ways. Turned it away from being an insider's club. The people spoke and made that person Poster of the Year. 

It surprised me when the powers that be didn't make that person's life easier on this site even if the person broke a few rules. Surely added posts to the site. I don't know the back story I suppose.

 

See you're boring everyone about it again, start a thread called Yinn and you obsessives can comment all you want, without it touching many threads 

Edited November 11, 2023 by scubascuba3

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Heavy handed moderation is no good, less said the better, like Facebook, barely see a moderator make a comment 

Perhap here we should have less moderation and a 'block' feature. Like you said, it works well on Facebook, someone stalks me, they are blocked - never to be seen again.

[george]

44 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

 

 

Can the forum include Tags?

When a member create a OP, can we also add multiple tags relevant to the topic?

We use tags for news, but only staff can add tags.

 

Why? "Tag spamming" was a real issue, we have tried it long time ago.... 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

See you're boring everyone about it again, start a thread called Yinn and you obsessives can comment all you , without it touching many threads 

Boring you maybe - fine - the point if you missed it was it was used as an example of how there could be robust discussion without much toxicity or negativity. You brought her up. 

[bignok]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Heavy handed moderation is no good, less said the better, like Facebook, barely see a moderator make a comment 

Would you prefer no moderation?

 

A free for all?

[RanongCat]

1 hour ago, novacova said:

There should be a forum section named something like “Intense Argument Free for All” where the threads that descend into incendiary abyss can be moved there, with the ability to to ignore that particular forum completely so none of it will show up anywhere. This way the habitual angsters can vent their aggression on each other, out of sight-out of mind for the individuals that have no interest in it.

Pistols  At Dawn !

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Heavy handed moderation is no good, less said the better, like Facebook, barely see a moderator make a comment 

 

It wasn't a general thing, but reserved for topic known to be 'troublesome', of if topics developed into such.

The point was to avoid constant moderator presence on topic via endless public warnings.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

A certain healthy favoritism is always acceptable and can be seen as a good marker in all sorts of relationships. But I think that TV moderation was going too far to mutate/transform this favoritism to offensive and defensive cronyism.

It started to develop in such way that argumentations of posters were unconditionally backed by some of the moderation. Posts could be removed or modified and posters could be suspended for multiple times. This was part of the informal ruling on TV.

 

I also understood that the high quantity of members at a certain time also allowed some of TV moderators to exaggerate in these informal ruling that made (many) posters quit TV.

 

Please check out online debates or complaints available of many who left TV and you will see that overall TV critics is not per se on the content that was available, but more on the treatment or injustice that happened for those who highlight the TV cronyism.

 

Being a neutral moderator is very difficult and, in some cases, even impossible. Many of us are also not the most polite, elegant or eloquent posters on TV/AN. But they’re also needed to boost or generate more “click-traffic”.

 

Problem that I have with AN is that public bullying is at a much higher frequency than TV. This bullying includes (and not limited to) : targeting alone or in group of an individual, gaslighting, harassment, name calling, racism, stalking, threatening, framing to get suspended, etc. Just watch the last 10 pages of “Israel is at War” topic to have an impression. Again, this works both ways: it generates a lot of “click-traffic” but some members can/should not be able to carry these personal attacks for a long time.

 

So my top 10 of reasons why people leave (and some stay) :

-          Cronyism: some posters are over-protected by moderation

-          Cronyism: some posters feel injustice and misunderstood

-          Cronyism: in some cases: POTY election

-          Unfair suspension and/or banning

-          Limited (political) international news

-          Bullying in person or in group by other posters

-          Low variety in posters with same interests or taste: for instance : no much (expat) women

-          Bad/unclear transition from TV to AN

-          There’s no sign of quality management and customer satisfaction process

-          Little or no criticism to moderation is allowed

 

 

You're a victim. Sure. Just posting along and no idea why posters get upset with your 'contributions'.

I get it this is a feedback topic, but kinda funny seeing some people hell bent on derailing topics, or ignoring forum rules go on about 'law and order'.

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, bignok said:

Would you prefer no moderation?

 

A free for all?

Very light touch, heavy handed moderation makes interesting posters leave

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It wasn't a general thing, but reserved for topic known to be 'troublesome', of if topics developed into such.

The point was to avoid constant moderator presence on topic via endless public warnings.

Also I wouldn't give a moderator a job who wanted to be a moderator, you know the types you can get

[tgw]

22 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

-          There’s no sign of quality management and customer satisfaction process

 

I'm sure that could be arranged if you were to decide becoming a customer of AN, i.e. pay them money for the service.

 

[RanongCat]

20 minutes ago, bignok said:

Why are all the world's political experts sitting in Pattaya? One wonders.

Highest ratio of expats to bar stools?

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Also I wouldn't give a moderator a job who wanted to be a moderator, you know the types you can get

I'm happy to be a mod. I'd ban about 20 people straight away.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

Also I wouldn't give a moderator a job who wanted to be a moderator, you know the types you can get

 

I never asked to be one, was always offered and pressured into it. I didn't like it and sucked at it. 

The admin gigs were more my thing.

Being a moderator ain't that easy, being a good one is a taller order.

 

All 'n all, the crowd here ain't so bad - similar websites more dedicated to gaming, geopolitics or sports are way worse.

[Thorgal]

9 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

I'm sure that could be arranged if you were to decide becoming a customer of AN, i.e. pay them money for the service.

 

 

1. Correct, but that's rather a model of the 80's that has been replaced with total quality management.

Your suppliers, workers, all third parties have to be implemented in your total quality plan to create quality assurance.

And yes, I did a core well hidden Ishikawa to be honest before posting my top 10.

 

2. Customer satisfaction is not re-evaluating the concept of used emoji's.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Thorgal