Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Nick Carter icp]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The man obviously hates Israel the one tiny Jewish dominated nation state in a world with a plethora of Muslim, Christian, and Buddhist dominated states with an extremist and irrational passion. 

 

   Its quite easy to see what and why they are doing it . 

South Africa changed Government  because of the Apartheid regime , people protesting against the South African apartheid regime caused the Government and Country to dissolve and a new order was installed . 

   They think if they can convince the World that Israel has an Apartheid system , then the World force Israel to dissolve and a new Palestinian country will replace Israel .

   They aren't concerned about any discrimination, they just use it attack Israel 

[Thorgal]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Great, the Brit carpet bombed in WWII, in order to destroy the Nazi regime. Just like IDF is trying to destroy Hamas.

 

Why do you bring back the WW2, SS, Nazi analogy back into this topic ?

 

Moderator deleted your previous attempts already and now you bring this back...

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312538-israel-is-at-war-general-discussion-pt2/?do=findComment&comment=18526291

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312538-israel-is-at-war-general-discussion-pt2/?do=findComment&comment=18526454

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

I expect the Gazans to do what German civilians did after the bombing stopped. They went back home and dealt with the rubble to create housing.

 

Ridiculous analogy.

The Germans were not living in an open air prison, like the Gazan were.

 

[Jingthing]

The Forward is an excellent source actually.

It does openly have a liberal / left American Jewish POV.

 

News That Matters to American Jews – The Forward

 

People other than their targeted audience would benefit from broadening their perspective by reading it. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

So they do it just totally out of the blue, Israel have nothing at all cause it? That's a strange thing to do, isn't it?

So said terrorists also invade their other neighbours?

 

   All the blame is on Hamas .

They may well feel aggrieved about certain things and feel that they have been untreated unfairly .

That doesn't give them the right to commit mass murder, war crimes and many other atrocities .

Like if you mum sends to to bed early with no dinner , that doesn't give you the right to murder her and burn her house down 

[Thorgal]

16 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/head-of-israels-ems-service-describes-horror-of-seeing-babies-slaughtered-by-hamas/

 

https://www.nysun.com/article/further-reports-come-to-light-in-case-of-the-baby-who-perished-in-an-oven-during-the-attack-by-hamas-a-tragedy-that-has-horrified-millions

 

 

 

Quote from source : from wiki : Misinformation in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war

 

In a speech to the Republican Jewish Coalition on 28 October, Eli Beer, founder of an Israeli EMS organization, claimed that Hamas had burned a baby alive in an oven. The claim was repeated by journalist Dovid Efune, John Podhoretz and others, in tweets seen over 10 million times. Israeli journalists found no evidence for the claim, and a representative of ZAKA, a first responder organization, said the claim was "false". French newspaper Libération said the claim was likely "entirely fictitious".

 

 

Conclusion : debunked (again)

Edited December 3, 2023 by Thorgal

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The Forward is an excellent source actually.

It does openly have a liberal / left American Jewish POV.

 

News That Matters to American Jews – The Forward

 

People other than their targeted audience would benefit from broadening their perspective by reading it. 

Indeed. 

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Israel is talking about creating a border buffer zone in Gaza. If they do, that would indeed mean Israel taking more land. On the other hand, based on October 7, they have a strong argument that such a buffer zone is needed. Washington is strongly opposed but what else is new?

 

I wonder whose land is going to be used for the buffer zone.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, Neeranam said:

I wonder whose land is going to be used for the buffer zone.

 

 

Gazan land. Duh. 

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Sorry, Neerarum deleted his post, and this was the only way to quote it.

 

The question was the moral equivalence of the WWII Allied bombing campaign over Germany, and the IDF incursion in Gaza.

 

Neerarum rightly deleted his post, because it made no sense. For example:

 

"many more German civilians supported the Nazis that Palestinians and Hamas.".

 

Yeah, Neerarum has conducted public opinion polls in Gaza, for sure.

 

As for Germany, should the Allied bombing campaign have stopped the moment that Nazi support in the German population dropped below 80%? 60%? 50%? By what measure?

 

 

As for the Allies not killing mostly children, do IDF bombs somehow target differently than Allied bombs?

 

What the British "rightly" did in WWII, the IDF is doing in Gaza.

 

Same same.

 

I never deleted any post. Stop making things up.

No idea why the guy you quoted is still quoting me, he knows he'll never get any replies. .

 

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Gazan land. Duh. 

Hardly fair, they've already been squeezed into a tiny area by Israel. I heard it was the most densely populated area on earth,which is quite incredible.

[Wobblybob]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are deflecting again and not answering my question, so I say again, if you are not going to do so why do you quote it and not answer it. Either answer the question or stop quoting me.

Stop being so disingenuous, you put posters on 'ignore' when you can't answer their questions. 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Hardly fair, they've already been squeezed into a tiny area by Israel. I heard it was the most densely populated area on earth,which is quite incredible.

 

   You heard wrong, yet another untrue thing you have said . 

Gaza  is the 63 rd most densely populated area in the World 

Tel Aviv has more people than the Gaza strip 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Nick Carter icp

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

No positive way to spin this. 

 

Three-quarters of Palestinians Support Hamas’ Attack on October 7, Says New Poll. Why?

Since October 7, it has been impossible to truly understand Hamas’ motives and intentions. It can be just as hard to understand Palestinian public opinion right now. After the first few weeks of chaos, two Palestinian polls became available last week – and there is no good way to spin the results.

A survey of Gaza and West Bank Palestinians by the Arab World Research and Development group (AWRAD) from the first week of November left many readers aghast: Nearly 60 percent of respondents very much supported the “military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7.” Another 16 percent expressed moderate support. That’s three-quarters in total who supported the indefensible.
Another three-quarters of Palestinians (76 percent) said Hamas was playing a positive role, while 98 percent said they feel some or great pride as a Palestinian. Just 13 percent of Palestinians opposed Hamas’ attack (21 percent in Gaza). 

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2023-11-22/ty-article/.premium/three-quarters-of-palestinians-support-hamas-attack-on-october-7-says-new-poll-why/0000018b-f841-d473-affb-f9e9eeef0000

https://archive.ph/ePq1k

Brian I know we don't agree on much about this sorry conflict but this piece should be a must read for all who comment on here.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Hardly fair, they've already been squeezed into a tiny area by Israel. I heard it was the most densely populated area on earth,which is quite incredible.

Maybe Hamas should of thought about being "fair" before they committed those horrible atrocities on October 7. The buffer land thing isn't a done deal. It's being talked about.

[Thorgal]

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Can someone tell me why Gazans are not allowed to leave Gaza?

 

Politically :

 

Based on bilateral agreements between Israel and Egypt : see Philadelphi Accord : see wiki link under "Israeli disengagement"

 

Based on bilateral agreements between Israel and Palestinian Authority : see AMA : Agreement on Movement and Access : see wiki link under "Agreement on Movement and Access".

 

Quote from source :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing

 

In October 2023 with the start of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, the crossing was again effectively sealed. For several weeks the Egyptian government refused to allow either Gazans or foreign nationals to exit Gaza via the Rafah crossing,[49][50] despite intensive international efforts to secure a window of time for the Rafah crossing to open to foreigners who want to exit the Strip.[51][52][53] Egypt also stated that Israeli airstrikes hit the Gaza side of the crossing.[50] 21 October, the border opened for humanitarian aid to enter Gaza.[54] On 1 November, a limited number of foreign nationals and wounded began being allowed to use the crossing to exit Gaza.[55]

 

Historically :

 

Dates back from Ramses III...

Edited December 3, 2023 by Thorgal

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In case you hadn't noticed, the israelis haven't kept to the 1948 borders, and they have almost entirely divided the West Bank into apartheid type bantustans ( like the white South Africans did ) where the Palestinians are attacked by settlers backed up by the army.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

In case you haven't noticed the Palestinian and Israel's Arab neighbors rejected the partition plan. There were other wars, of course, which you are well aware of - feigning ignorance and blaming Israel for it all is dishonest even by your low standards.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Prove that or it's a filthy lie. One guy claiming to have seen it is not a credible source.

You need to link an article by a reputable source like the Red Cross or such like. Definitely not an israeli source.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

That's rich, coming from someone who constantly make big claims without bothering to back them up.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Do you believe everything the israelis say?

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Do you believe everything the Palestinians say? Everything said on AJ?

I, for one, do not believe much of what you say....

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Thorgal said:

 

Why do you bring back the WW2, SS, Nazi analogy back into this topic ?

 

Moderator deleted your previous attempts already and now you bring this back...

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312538-israel-is-at-war-general-discussion-pt2/?do=findComment&comment=18526291

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1312538-israel-is-at-war-general-discussion-pt2/?do=findComment&comment=18526454

Nations that are attacked and face ongoing attacks have a moral imperative to defend their citizens by eliminating the threat.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

So the only link you can find which says a baby was microwaved is one owned by Seth Lipsky, the former editor of The Jewish Daily Forward?

If you read these types of newspapers, you'll surely be biased.

 

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-772181

 

https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/israeli-volunteer-hamas/2023/11/02/id/1140779/

 

Another link to another report.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Danderman123

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Do you believe everything the Palestinians say? Everything said on AJ?

I, for one, do not believe much of what you say....

Can you name any better news channel to get new on the ME?

[scottiejohn]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

That's rich, coming from someone who constantly make big claims without bothering to back them up.

He, nor anyone else, is capable of providing links to their biased thoughts!

That is why sites like this ask for links to actual (well?) documented facts!

[Wobblybob]

There are too many terrorists sympathisers that are anti-Semitic on here to narrow it down to just one person, but it tells you all you need to know about these people, sick!

[Thorgal]

16 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Nations that are attacked and face ongoing attacks have a moral imperative to defend their citizens by eliminating the threat.

 

"Defensive" ?

I've agreed with many others if you eliminate any criminal civil threats on the spot in Israel or if you chase the intruders back into Gaza. 

 

The "offensive" response is out of proportion and also criminal and has been disqualified or rejected multiple times here on AN.

 

IDF has no "offensive" capabilities to start a total war in the region. Everybody is aware of this.

IAF started to bomb Lebanon and Syria just after the 7th of October attacks as a panic maneuver. Israel even started to almost menace Russia to hit them later (recorded on RT).

 

This kind of tragic and provocative language and actions of Israel lately are only possible if you get some military backup of US and UK by sending their aircraft carriers.

 

This conflict could have been ended by a hostage swap without mass bombing. This 7th of October conflict has been falsely sold as a total war from Hamas and Gaza franchise to recapture FULL Israeli territory with only +/- 3.000 militants.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Thorgal

[Wobblybob]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Can you name any better news channel to get new on the ME?

John Craven's Newsround?

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

"Defensive" ?

I've agreed with many others if you eliminate any criminal civil threats on the spot in Israel or if you chase the intruders back into Gaza. 

 

The "offensive" response is out of proportion and also criminal and has been disqualified or rejected multiple times here on AN.

 

IDF has no "offensive" capabilities to start a total war in the region. Everybody is aware of this.

IAF started to bomb Lebanon and Syria just after the 7th of October attacks as a panic maneuver. Israel even started to almost menace Russia to hit them later (recorded on RT).

 

This kind of tragic and provocative language and actions of Israel lately are only possible if you get some military backup of US and UK by sending their aircraft carriers.

 

This conflict could have been ended by a hostage swap without mass bombing. This 7th of October conflict has been falsely sold as a total war from Hamas and Gaza franchise to recapture FULL Israeli territory with only +/- 3.000 militants.

This conflict could have been ended by a hostage swap without mass bombing. This 7th of October conflict has been falsely sold as a total war from Hamas and Gaza franchise to recapture FULL Israeli territory with only +/- 3.000 militants.

 

B.S.

 

Oct. 7 massacre 'was just a rehearsal,' says Hamas leader in first public address since Israel attack

Hamas’s Oct. 7 slaughter was “just a rehearsal,” the Islamist group’s leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar threatened on Thursday, in his first public statement since the terrorist organization massacred more than a thousand people in Israel.

“The leaders of the occupation [Israel] should know, Oct. 7 was just a rehearsal,” stated Sinwar, according to the Maariv newspaper.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/oct-7-massacre-was-just-a-rehearsal-says-hamas-leader-in-first-public-address-since-attack-on-israel

 

EDIT, what's with calling these terrorists, militants? Oct the 7th was a terrorist act not a militant act? I know your a Hamas supporter but at least try some honesty here.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Israel is talking about creating a border buffer zone in Gaza. If they do, that would indeed mean Israel taking more land. On the other hand, based on October 7, they have a strong argument that such a buffer zone is needed. Washington is strongly opposed but what else is new?

I think we all know that whatever Israel does to castrate Hamas won't be complete. Why should Israel be forced to live with such an endless threat? Would any other country tolerate that?

 

It will not necessarily mean 'taking' any land. There was such a buffer zone for years. What it meant in practice was that access to areas right next to the border fence was prohibited, barring specific conditions/times. This did not effect most of the population in the Gaza Strip, and pertains more to farm land, or wasteland areas. I don't know that there's actually that much opposition to this - Israel already informed some regional players of its intentions. If I remember correctly the width of the buffer zone varied - ranging between 500-2000 meters.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Safe havens in GAZA???????????????

Have you not heard that there is NO SAFE HAVEN IN GAZA?

 

 

There isn't much left to go back to in the north after the israelis blew a lot of it up. Do you expect them to live in little caves in the rubble?

 

However, I'm prepared to wait and see if they do allow them back, so unless netanyahu phones you up for a chat every night you might want to wait and see what actually happens.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

More of your unsupported nonsense.

 

There's a recent topic with the OP showing details of locations in the Gaza Strip that were attacked and buildings destroyed. While this is widespread, it by no means encompass all of the Gaza Strip. Specifically, the area designated as a safe zones seems to have been pretty much, well...safe.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It will not necessarily mean 'taking' any land. There was such a buffer zone for years. What it meant in practice was that access to areas right next to the border fence was prohibited, barring specific conditions/times. This did not effect most of the population in the Gaza Strip, and pertains more to farm land, or wasteland areas. I don't know that there's actually that much opposition to this - Israel already informed some regional players of its intentions. If I remember correctly the width of the buffer zone varied - ranging between 500-2000 meters.

Well I would expect if they do this that the new buffer will be bigger, and I'm sure the RIver to the Sea brigade are going to be squawking.