Tax Session for American citizens from the Embassy and American Chamber of Commerce

[ChicagoExpat]

All -- just learned there will be an online meeting to answer questions about the new tax law for Americans.  It's free with the promo code USBKK23 Tax Committee: Thai Tax on Foreign-Sourced Income (mailchi.mp)

 

 

[jaywalker2]

1000 baht for non-members. I hope somebody takes notes.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, jaywalker2 said:

1000 baht for non-members. I hope somebody takes notes.

Sure, they can sell the notes but then they will have to pay tax on the profits

[mfd101]

We non-Usofans will be waiting breathlessly for the subsequent reports. Not for the details but for the general points about how the US thinks the whole shemozzle will work.

[Presnock]

As a US tax-paying citizen who resides in Thailand, I would think that the US Embassy/State Department should be responsible for any changes by the

Thai government on the tax situation of US sourced funds since the IRS takes our money every year legally and that if they are going to be required to refund us or lower our next year's tax bill, then it should officially notify us of those changes.  SInce the US and Thai governments have an official treaty on the taxing of our money, then the US govt or their representative embassy should be keeping US citizens aware of any of those changes.  If they do not then we as citizens should advise our Congress reps and American Citizens Abroad organizations of this shortfall in providing this information.  After all, it is not a secret and affects all Americans in Thailand over 180 days a year and we deserve at least a note for our taxes paid each year.  My opinion anyway and I do not understand why I should have to join the Thai AMCHAM as I am a retired US citizen and this information should be broadcast widely for all foreigners located in Thailand.

 

[CMBob]

Have watched a couple of online videos and attended a presentation by an accountant here in Chiangmai at a CEC meeting.  And, so far, nobody seems to know pretty much anything about what the new (alleged) law will in reality take effect or how it would be enforced.  The only common advice I've heard from all sources is that money you bring into Thailand before 2024 will not trigger any possible tax effects here.

As to the above post suggesting that the US Embassy/Consulate will provide any assistance whatsoever is simply a pipe dream.  You know where will freeze over before that happens.

[ChicagoExpat]

3 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

1000 baht for non-members. I hope somebody takes notes.

It's free with the promo code.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

Have watched a couple of online videos and attended a presentation by an accountant here in Chiangmai at a CEC meeting.  And, so far, nobody seems to know pretty much anything about what the new (alleged) law will in reality take effect or how it would be enforced.  The only common advice I've heard from all sources is that money you bring into Thailand before 2024 will not trigger any possible tax effects here.

As to the above post suggesting that the US Embassy/Consulate will provide any assistance whatsoever is simply a pipe dream.  You know where will freeze over before that happens.

Well, they've set this up with local tax professionals.  I'd call that assistance.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

My opinion anyway and I do not understand why I should have to join the Thai AMCHAM as I am a retired US citizen and this information should be broadcast widely for all foreigners located in Thailand.

 

You don't have to join.  As it says above but no one seems to be reading -- it's free for non AmCham members.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

All -- just learned there will be an online meeting to answer questions about the new tax law for Americans.  It's free with the promo code USBKK23 Tax Committee: Thai Tax on Foreign-Sourced Income (mailchi.mp)

 

 

 

Thanks much for the head's up about this upcoming session.

 

Indeed, the promo code you provided above does work successfully, when  you click the link to register for the event as a non chamber member.

 

 

Also, it looks like the online session is going to be held using the Zoom video conferencing app. So folks who want to participate will need to install Zoom on their PC or other device.

 

The no-fee promo code USBKK23 goes here:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Presnock]

7 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

All -- just learned there will be an online meeting to answer questions about the new tax law for Americans.  It's free with the promo code USBKK23 Tax Committee: Thai Tax on Foreign-Sourced Income (mailchi.mp)

 

 

Thanks for the info, I did the "free" registration for the seminar and will be listening on the 15th.  Hope they have valid up to date info and that it is definitive for what the tax if any will be.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

As a US tax-paying citizen who resides in Thailand, I would think that the US Embassy/State Department should be responsible for any changes by the

Thai government on the tax situation of US sourced funds since the IRS takes our money every year legally and that if they are going to be required to refund us or lower our next year's tax bill, then it should officially notify us of those changes.  SInce the US and Thai governments have an official treaty on the taxing of our money, then the US govt or their representative embassy should be keeping US citizens aware of any of those changes.  If they do not then we as citizens should advise our Congress reps and American Citizens Abroad organizations of this shortfall in providing this information.  After all, it is not a secret and affects all Americans in Thailand over 180 days a year and we deserve at least a note for our taxes paid each year.  My opinion anyway and I do not understand why I should have to join the Thai AMCHAM as I am a retired US citizen and this information should be broadcast widely for all foreigners located in Thailand.

 

Actually, what the Embassy should do is explain whether certain US incomes such as Social Security or pensions are exempt due to tax treaty (or not) and whether the tax paid to Thailand can be a credit on US tax, even if one doesn't have any foreign income. The way this works in US treaties with other countries, one is allowed to reattribute US-based income as foreign income in an amount equivalent to the income declared in the foreign tax return. In addition ot IRS form 1116, I believe that another form has to be filled. If the Embassy has an IRS staffer, they should help US taxpayers here to know how to deal with this.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It's free with the promo code.

Yes I registered free with the promo code provided.  No problem and I will definitely listen in on the 15th.  If nothing else, I will provide my 
"two cents" worth afterwards if no one else does.  Thanks for the code.

[Presnock]

24 minutes ago, placnx said:

Actually, what the Embassy should do is explain whether certain US incomes such as Social Security or pensions are exempt due to tax treaty (or not) and whether the tax paid to Thailand can be a credit on US tax, even if one doesn't have any foreign income. The way this works in US treaties with other countries, one is allowed to reattribute US-based income as foreign income in an amount equivalent to the income declared in the foreign tax return. In addition ot IRS form 1116, I believe that another form has to be filled. If the Embassy has an IRS staffer, they should help US taxpayers here to know how to deal with this.

The free promo code was used to register so I will listen and provide whatever is pertinent for anyone.  Hopefully it will be definitive so that all will be clear for all of us no matter how we live here.

[paulbrow]

23 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

All -- just learned there will be an online meeting to answer questions about the new tax law for Americans.  It's free with the promo code USBKK23 Tax Committee: Thai Tax on Foreign-Sourced Income (mailchi.mp)

 

 

Thanks for the information. I just successfully registered and the promo code definitely Zero'd the charge.

[Skipalongcassidy]

18 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It's free with the promo code.

Yes, but cannot register if you are not employed in Thailand... I am a retired American with different types of income and will have no advanced warning because I cannot register... I can only hope that someone will post up the gist of the meeting soon after.

[Presnock]

10 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Yes, but cannot register if you are not employed in Thailand... I am a retired American with different types of income and will have no advanced warning because I cannot register... I can only hope that someone will post up the gist of the meeting soon after.

You don't need to be employed in Thailand or anywhere.  As mentioned by the originator here, if you are not a member of Thai AMCHAM, you can still register free using the code listed above.  Check it out as several have okay'd "free" registration.

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 minutes ago, Presnock said:

You don't need to be employed in Thailand or anywhere.  As mentioned by the originator here, if you are not a member of Thai AMCHAM, you can still register free using the code listed above.  Check it out as several have okay'd "free" registration.

 

When I tried to register it would not let me proceed past the information page until I filled in my work place... it accepted the coupon code to be free but not my application

[ChicagoExpat]

13 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

When I tried to register it would not let me proceed past the information page until I filled in my work place... it accepted the coupon code to be free but not my application

Just make one up, or put "retired."  I'm guessing if they made this available to the whole American community they know that many of us are retired.

[Skipalongcassidy]

36 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Just make one up, or put "retired."  I'm guessing if they made this available to the whole American community they know that many of us are retired.

Then... if they are so smart as to know that... then leave out the business work place as a requirement... so it is really about recruiting rather than providing information for Americans in Thailand.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Then... if they are so smart as to know that... then leave out the business work place as a requirement... so it is really about recruiting rather than providing information for Americans in Thailand.

Actually, I blv that the Thailand AMerican Chamber of Commerce came to the embassy and offered to provide this informtion.  That is why ThaiAMCHAM members get free and if one is employed locally and is a member, they can join the AMCHAM but the original message today on this forum provided a code so that Anyone can register free.  I did so...I am retired and wrote that in the work place and I was approved for the meeting.  I will pass on whatever I learn if it is actually definitive for Americans (or other nationalities since I read that there are 59 Thai-(other countries) with tax agreements.  I sure don't wish to have the

Thais charging me tax on my pension even though the US IRS would lower my tax rate so that I wouldn't really lose any money but I just don't want to even have an "extra" requirement to be here i.e. 90-day report although online is super easy, TM30 although not OUR requirement but immigration does require some of

US to do that but again online is really easy and even the once a year long-stay reporting - immigration locally has done wonders compared to what we used to have to go through for any of these (except tm30 although old just surfaced again 5 years or so ago).  Maybe the 90-day and TM-30 will go away some  day

in the future.  All the storage for the paperwork must fill up several warehouses by now!  Next week, immediately after the session with the AMCHAM folks, I will post something on this forum.  Hopefully, it will be definitive and accurate as to what will occur with the taxation program.

[ChicagoExpat]

5 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Then... if they are so smart as to know that... then leave out the business work place as a requirement... so it is really about recruiting rather than providing information for Americans in Thailand.

Well, don't do it then if you think it won't be helpful.  Of course they're trying to recruit.

[Skeptic7]

I will be totally noncompliant. At least until someone comes knocking. Even then, in typical Thai fashion, will claim ignorance and laugh a stupid laugh and continue smiling like an moron. Of course I will be acting. For Thais, it's totally real. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's an MP3 audio of the AmCham Thai Tax webinar this morning... Some clarifications and answers, but a lot of questions/issues left unresolved, pending further clarification from the Thai Revenue Department.

 

One of the disappointing things, for me at least, was I don't think the session at all addressed just how the specific provisions of the Thai-U.S. Double Taxation Agreement will in practical terms impact and operate for Americans here under the Thai government's new taxation scheme...

 

Most of the practically useful info comes later in their initial presentation after a longish introduction and background briefing, and then during the ending Q&A session, starting at about the 43 minute mark, where they respond to specific questions asked online.

 

One of the things the panelists specifically said was they BELIEVED, for now, that foreign debit and credit card transactions (purchases and cash withdrawals) done here in Thailand likely WOULD be considered tax assessable income, though they said the Revenue Department's specific guidance thus far hasn't addressed that exact question.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ChicagoExpat]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Here's an MP3 audio of the AmCham Thai Tax webinar this morning... Some clarifications and answers, but a lot of questions/issues left unresolved, pending further clarification from the Thai Revenue Department.

 

One of the disappointing things, for me at least, was I don't think the session at all addressed just how the specific provisions of the Thai-U.S. Double Taxation Agreement will in practical terms impact and operate for Americans here under the Thai government's new taxation scheme...

 

Most of the practically useful info comes later in their initial presentation, and then during the ending Q&A session where they respond to specific questions asked online.

 

 

 

Thanks for posting.  Knowing they ran out of time to address all the questions, they said they'd schedule a follow up in a few weeks, after they met with the Revenue people to get clarification on some issues.

 

If I can get it, I'll post the new info here when it is scheduled.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here are a couple of the slides presented, with highlights in yellow added by me to some important clarifications / considerations, and some additional advice given. The first highlight below is a major exemption/clarification.

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

And from a Chamber member / Thai tax attorney who was answering questions online, but was not part of the presenting panel:

 

 

The panelists said they believed the above opinion will likely end up being the case, but that the Thai Revenue Dept hasn't specifically advised on this issue.

 

-------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Thai tax exempt gifts to a Thai spouse would have to involve a legal marriage with a Thai marriage certificate.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

-------------------------------------

 

Lastly, there was a question asked about the status of U.S. Social Security payments, and how they would be treated under this new tax policy, including as addressed by the U.S.-Thai double taxation agreement.

 

And, the status of that and the impact of the DTA on SS wasn't answered by the panelists.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Sheryl]

Many thanks to @TallGuyJohninBKK  for sharing this content, I had not seen this thread in time to join.

 

What if anything was said specific to:

 

- US Social Security?

- Government and private Pensions ?

 

The pension issue seems still unclear to me   since one may be a Thai tax resident when the income is obtained but it is usually based on earnings prior to becoming a Thai tax resident.

 

Addendum: I have now listened to all and they failed to address the specifics just saying it depends on the tax treaty and pension type. SInce this is being held at AmCham I'm a bit surprised they did not mention the specific exception of US Social Security which is clear in the tax treaty (exemption form tax in Thailand, that is - it is assessable in US and some will have ot pay tax on it there).

[Wayne9732]

Had anything been mentioned about compensation (VA Disability) 

 

It's not taxed in the USA and as far as I'm aware (I hope I'm not wrong) it can't be taxed anywhere else...

 

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Wayne9732 said:

Had anything been mentioned about compensation (VA Disability) 

 

It's not taxed in the USA and as far as I'm aware (I hope I'm not wrong) it can't be taxed anywhere else...

 

 

Not mentioned in the webinar and also not addressed (unfortunately) in the US-Thai tax treaty as far as I can see.

 

Addendum: while no mention of VA Disability Compensation the Tx treaty does say as follows:

 

"a) Remuneration, other than a pension, paid by a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State."  And there is a similar clause regarding government pensions.  (i.e. US government rumunertion  overall, and poensions, are   taxable only in US). Section 21 of the Treaty.

 

It could be inferred from these clauses that the VA compensation should not be taxable in Thailand but would need to confirm that.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Addendum: I have now listened to all and they failed to address the specifics just saying it depends on the tax treaty and pension type. SInce this is being held at AmCham I'm a bit surprised they did not mention the specific exception of US Social Security which is clear in the tax treaty (exemption form tax in Thailand, that is - it is assessable in US and some will have ot pay tax on it there).

 

I too was surprised, Sheryl.

 

Considering this was an event hosted by the AMERICAN chamber of commerce, they totally whiffed on addressing the details of U.S.-specific topics like Social Security and the impact on all these various income issues of the terms of the Thai-US double taxation agreement.