typical retiree (foreign home) situation

[jaxon]

What do folks retiring in Thailand typically do with their home in their home country.  Sell? Rent out? Keep vacant?  Obviously this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, and everyone's situation is different.  But given the uncertainty of the Thai visa system, it seems that it's fairly necessary to maintain a home country home too !  Any thoughts or opinions welcome... 

[Mike Lister]

I rent my UK flat using an agent ho takes care of most things.....it's my plan B.

[OneMoreFarang]

I have nothing "back home".

I don't want to go there, and I don't want to rely on other people taking care of things "back home".

 

I had property over there. I sold it. No (possible) headache anymore. Problem solved.

 

Obviously if you are not sure then don't burn all your bridges. But if you are here for years and think you will stay here forever, then don't worry about "home".

 

[Denim]

Size down and rent out. 

 

Houses need maintenance and most tenants don't  bother with it so your house can end up needing a lot of decorating or repairs.

 

A one bedroom flat or studio is a lot less trouble to maintain but you still have a foot in the door in your home country.

[BritManToo]

If you're from the UK rent it to your council. 3-5 year contract, and they will return it at the end in the same condition as at the start.

No agent taking a cut, and no messing with tenants.

[Skipalongcassidy]

It really boils down to investment vs cash... will the future market price for the house rise or fall taking into account the expense involved in absentee landlord management... vs do you want to have cash available for other expenses or pleasure... or other investment.  I did it both ways... when I first retired I held on to my properties and had a management company take care of everything while I travelled throughout the world... 20 years later after covid and the housing boom was in full bloom I finally sold everything... decent return on my investment but could have done better had I invested cash in other markets... it's a crap shoot at best.

[Spilornis]

Excellent suggestions particularly that from Brit Man Too.

Gives you a source of income and flexibility should Thailand not work out.

Interest on any mortgage and taxes need to be considered.

Even if the rent is not enough for you to live on you might consider borrowing a small amount to live on

Hasten slowly is my advice

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, jaxon said:

But given the uncertainty of the Thai visa system,

And what may that be? nothing has really changed for a decade and in fact in some ways have got better, there are also bordering countries to go if the poo hits the fan.

[2ndhomepattaya]

I rent out my property and it more than covers my rental expenses in Thailand. So, in a way, I keep my base in the UK  and additionally have the possibility of capital gains in the future, as a bonus. And of course, just in case plan B if needed.

Besides, buying in Thailand sucks big time. Prices remain stagnant at best unless you live in Bangkok.

[brianthainess]

I used to rent out my house in the UK using an agent, sold that while in OZ I brought another one, then rented out my house there, I spent a few years making it good and well maintained, then rented it out through an agent there, it ended up costing so much in maintenance, with a new tenant, as they did nothing themselves, I still wonder if the agent was in on it, knowing I was here, maybe had family plumbers etc. $200 to fit a new washer on a tap! called out on a Sunday, refit a light bulb fitting in the ceiling, how would that fall out? Unclog the toilet sewer pipe? repair a fence, broken window, the list goes on, I had landlord insurance, but couldn't renew it, forget the reason. In the end sold it when the market was low at 3million baht less than I was expecting, agent again IMO Once I had sold it, it was a great burden off my shoulders no more worries will this months rent have more maintenance deductions Oh and plus the 3 monthly inspection fees, I had great satisfaction of getting the pile of associated paper work of 3yrs, and burnt the frigging lot. Yes I literally burnt that bridge and good riddance.

Edited December 10, 2023 by brianthainess

[oxo1947]

2 hours ago, jaxon said:

But given the uncertainty of the Thai visa system

What is the uncertainty.....?  I have lived here now over the 27 year mark, and its only got better.

 

When I came here -my wife was not be allowed to buy a house , even in her name---because she was married to a Foreigner .

Every 90 days you would have to leave the country----not tap a few keys on a computer --or wander down the local IM office.

Every Year you would have to "Try" to get another Visa --but it had to be issued outside of Thailand, some people didn't get it , leaving the keys to their rental with friend who would pack their stuff up for them.

 

There Have been  so many other changes (buy 5 years , etc etc ) that makes it even easier,  but still some (mainly Poms) feel their victims of some terrible visa conditions. maybe they would like to name other countries that make it easier for old age pensioners to stay then it is for young -some qualified  people. There is a few but I wouldn't want to live in them. No ones mentioned changes to Visa laws that i have read--maybe Jaxon knows something new.

 

Ando one has a grip yet on what the tax law will be---but of course to some it will always be the half empty glass

 

I rented my Oz condo out for 4 years before deciding to cash in on a good market there at the time.  Take your time--BritMantoo idea seems good.

 

 

.

Edited December 10, 2023 by oxo1947

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

A one bedroom flat or studio is a lot less trouble to maintain but you still have a foot in the door in your home country.

Can't you rent one if you really need it?

 

Obviously it depends on the country, but in some countries people who rent property have so many (annoying) rights that it can be a major headache to rent out your property. Repairs, misbehaving people in there, rent only partially paid. It can be difficult enough if you live nearby. But if you are far away it can be big headache. 

[CANSIAM]

I don't have a flat in home country, keeping my truck there however for transportation when visiting. It was sitting in a 'buddies' yard for a year and to make a long story short - no longer a buddy, now paying vehicle storage monthly, hopefully my sister can make a 19' spot for it at her place soon. Headaches owning anything abroad, maybe next trip back sell the damn thing !!! 

[GinBoy2]

i always kept a home in the US, it was my ultimate bolt hole, since none of us know what the future holds.

 

I willingly paid an agent to manage it, 10% of the rent, but they found the tenants, took care of any maintenance, all I did was collect the rental check every month.

 

When we moved back to the US we sold our rentals in Bangkok, and bought here.

 

Couple of reasons. Firstly there really isn't the same sort of total management company in Thailand, and obviously trying to deal with from thousands of miles away, even using family just wasn't going to work

Secondly, while they gave us sold rental income, there was no capital appreciation, even in central Thong Lor, too much new construction.

 

So we sold up, and bought rentals in the US. Yes, now I still an agent to take care of them, even though we live in the same town, but I'm lazy and can't be dealing with tenants nit pickings.

Also I have to pay property tax, but all in all they provide the same solid income as the BKK rentals, and already are proving a great capital gain

 

The other advantage of keeping a house at home is I'd rented it out furnished, so co-ordinated our return with the end of the tenants lease, so we got off the plane and had a house to live in, and a bed to sleep in that same day

Edited December 10, 2023 by GinBoy2

[JimTripper]

I tried renting mine out. Had an full service agent who screened tenants, took payments, everything. Got what looked like top tenants on paper.

 

It was a disaster. The tenants were pretty wealthy and kept wanting to upgrade the property. Their dog lived in a bedroom all to itself and pissed all over the carpet. They switched out the lighting, the drapes and dishwasher, etc etc, to styles that were modern looking that did not match the theme of the house. Kept asking for me to pay for some of the upgrades. There was also ongoing international phone calls with the agent all the time for any little thing, they kept calling.

 

It was people who ended up thinking the property was never good enough for some reason. Or, people that moved into what they perceived as an affulent area with a golf course and instead of just moving out, tried to change it by upgrading it to something that was not achievable.

 

I ended up making just under break even on the payments. Also, I had to fly back from asia to fix up the place and arrange to have it sold because there was junk around, mattresses etc that nobody wanted to remove. The tenants moved a month or two before the annual contract expired due to a misunderstanding with the property manager who said they could move out early on a phone call and not pay the last two months, then demanded the deposit back. I refused and never returned it. Ended up just saying f@uck it and selling.

 

I think I got lucky they did not refuse rent payments until the last two months and vacated the property in time. In California you can't get people out easily if they refuse and you have to live nearby to arrange a complicated eviction or it gets real expensive hiring lawyers to do it.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by JimTripper

[Tropicalevo]

I had a flat in the UK in a 'posh' area.

Company sent me to Asia to open up new offices here back in '93. I had no idea where I was going to end up so I rented the flat out with a reputable agent.

Agent ripped me off and so did the tenants. So I sold it.

I also kept a car in the UK. It 'disappeared'.

 

[GypsyT]

Very good question!

 

I had 4 places until last year when I sold 3. I keep one house for peace of mind "if things go south" and I need to settle down. Now I feel house is too much work and worry so I may buy an apartment.

 

Plus I rent two apartments in houses in different countries. Pay cash, no contracts. Has been working good, we trust each other.

[gomangosteen]

I'd kept a house and a small commercial property in Wellington New Zealand, initially house was leased to a bank for senior staff, after about 4 yrs that changed and put it with a rental tenancy agency, by this time house was over 12 years old, combination of tenants who didn't care and ongoing maintenance costs, I later sold it, moderate gains 

 

The other one I finalised in March this year, had been a good earner, minimal maintenance/ costs leased to a car spray paint and panel business, he made me an offer and bought it outright, cutting my final tie to that country. 

 

If I had it all over again I'd have sold the house when I left the country, but at the time it was a good income @ $600 a week (taxable, and NZ not USD unfortunately).

 

Easy to look back on decisions, was the right idea at the time.

[daveAustin]

Reckon it depends on what you can afford. Some may say ‘I don’t like it there, sell up’ etc. Surely best to have a plan b? If you can afford it, having a place there and here is being clever. Dunno about ‘visa uncertainty’, it’s been pretty straightforward for years… imagine trying to go the other way as an immigrant! Agree with the flat idea, though. Know a guy ‘back home’ with 100+ properties (flats, houses, pubs, car parks, up to shopping precincts) and he says do flats without question. Houses etc are a pita. 😉

[Denim]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Can't you rent one if you really need it?

 

Rents are through the roof and even if you can afford it the screening is tiresome as landlords want someone in work.

 

Rent a studio for 600 pounds or collect 600 pounds a month yourself. A home address is useful. Easier to continue using the NHS in an emergency plus if you are claiming a state pension a UK address makes it easier to get any rises that come along. Also , property prises in the UK generally move up. They might stall from time to time but like gold , they eventually bounce back. Therefore a property is a real investment

 

A studio is really all you need. If the tennants trash it you only have one room to refurnish. The outside is not your problem as is taken care of in the service charge

[GypsyT]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

A home address is useful.

Exactly! I keep my EU and US health insurances valid by having two official addresses.

 

[Tropicalevo]

56 minutes ago, Denim said:

A home address is useful.

Totally true.

M-I-L provides that for me for pension and the bank although both institutions know that I live overseas.

Her place is also 'cheap' to stay in on the rare occasions that I go back to the UK.

[zzzzz]

LOL:  " typical retiree"

Be willing to bet the Typical retiree owns nada, zip, nothing in his own country>>>

 

[noobexpat]

Sold at the peak. Have a cash problem now - too much!

Equities grow faster than property so its good to be out.

 

 

 

[Robin]

Im in the same situation. Wife, home and pets in Thailand, and UK becomes less attractive on each visit, as does long flifh home.

Unil Sreetha came up with his new 'tax the farang' scheme, I was preparign to sell u in UK and live on the proceded.  Now I am waiting to see waht Sreetha can come up with before making a move.

 

Leaving aan empth property in UK really needs a trusted freiend o make regular checkes on in.

[expat_4_life]

You didn't give any personal details, like how long you've been an expat, just planning or already retired, etc. I've lived in foreign countries for over 4 decades, my observation is most expats go home eventually for one reason or another, just saying.

 

I would suggest to keep your options open, at least until you're well settled as an expat.

Looks like plenty of posters in this thread did that too, at least until some number of years, or until the nuisance/cost of maintaining a property back home became an unnecessary burden and it slowly dawned on them they will never go back.

 

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, jaxon said:

What do folks retiring in Thailand typically do with their home in their home country.  Sell? Rent out? Keep vacant?  Obviously this is a "how long is a piece of string" question, and everyone's situation is different.  But given the uncertainty of the Thai visa system, it seems that it's fairly necessary to maintain a home country home too !  Any thoughts or opinions welcome... 

It all depends on your country, home location and  logistics. 

I maintained my Florida home for many years, Then I rent it to a neighbor, after a while it became too much and Is old it. 

The money invested  a very safe investment vehicle makes me almost as much as I collected in rent. 

and is available for immediate liquidation where   with the home , if I needed the money I would have to put it in the market to sell and hope it would sell quick and at a good price. 

I sold and I am happy I did . but if you do ,make sure you are disciplined enough not to blow the money on beads and trinkets, 

[NextG]

3 hours ago, Denim said:

 

Rents are through the roof and even if you can afford it the screening is tiresome as landlords want someone in work.

 

Rent a studio for 600 pounds or collect 600 pounds a month yourself. A home address is useful. Easier to continue using the NHS in an emergency plus if you are claiming a state pension a UK address makes it easier to get any rises that come along. Also , property prises in the UK generally move up. They might stall from time to time but like gold , they eventually bounce back. Therefore a property is a real investment

 

A studio is really all you need. If the tennants trash it you only have one room to refurnish. The outside is not your problem as is taken care of in the service charge

Rent a studio WHERE for £600? ☺️
Cannot be referring to London. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

In Australia the taxation rules mean that 100% of the money you make from renting out a property is taxed - no tax free threshold. That and all the pro-renter rules and laws made it very unviable to be a landlord so we sold our property.  However, we have maintained an 'address' in Australia (friends) who forward on any important mail. We also maintian all banking and Govt services using that address (licence etc.).  In the future we might return to Australia when we are very old (in 80s?), because of the health system - it is basically free and is heavily subsidised. 

 

That may change though, with the current change in Thailand income taxation starting in 2024, which looks like they will tax the Pension and Savings that we plan to remit into Thailand over the next 10-15 years.  Hopefully they will not do that and they will make exmptions for Expats Pensions and Savings, but if they do not, then we will either be moving to another SEAsian country - or back to Australia earlier than planned.

[dick turpin]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you're from the UK rent it to your council. 3-5 year contract, and they will return it at the end in the same condition as at the start.

No agent taking a cut, and no messing with tenants.

interesting article in Daily Mail  this morning "Barking Mad...." may give you pause for thought.