The Problem With EVs

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

The tires are not equivalent. 

I think the MG tires are wider and taller, so the tire rotates fewer times over the same distance, and the load per unit area on the tire is lower.

 

Any number of other things impact tire wear including but not limited to temperature and road surface. 

IME bigger tires usually cost more.

[HighPriority]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Do they ? ... or more of your hypothetical situations.  Many variables, due to different cars, different tires and driver's habits.  Would think any heavier vehicle would wear out faster, if all things being equal.

 

Plenty of ICEVs the same or heavier than some EVs.  Already posted somewhere on AN.

 

Maybe purchase better tires, as you would with any vehicle.  Just a thought.

 

You didn't mention how brakes might last longer, due to regen system.  Or no cost of oil changes, tune ups, transmission servicing, or exhaust system issues/replacements with EVs.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

But, but… but…

[HighPriority]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

 

OMG !!

Theres some dipshhite on YouTube that gets money from dumbarsses by saying that I bought the wrong car 😢😢

[HighPriority]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IME bigger tires usually cost more.

As compared to your T model Ford ?

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

OMG !!

Theres some dipshhite on YouTube that gets money from dumbarsses by saying that I bought the wrong car 😢😢

OMG!!! There's a poster on ASEAN that believes ad hominem argument trumps facts and experience. I suppose I should not be surprised.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IME bigger tires usually cost more.

Usually, but not always. But why are you changing the subject? 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

As compared to your T model Ford ?

The tires on a T-model Ford probably cost considerably more nowadays than a modern day tire, perhaps that did not occur to you before making a daft comparison.

I'm guessing buyer's remorse will only set in with you after you have had an accident, or try to offload your EV.

Drive carefully, it's high season on Thai roads for the idiots, and it's irrelevant what you are piloting.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

As compared to your T model Ford ?

You could get a T-Model with 30s...

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Usually, but not always. But why are you changing the subject? 

The subject is the problem with EV's. How is comparing the cost of tires required changing the subject?

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Lacessit said:

The subject is the problem with EV's. How is comparing the cost of tires required changing the subject?

 

You're right, sorry. Yes, the tires for the particular EV in the study were bigger than the tires for your Vios, and bigger tires sometimes cost more than do smaller tires. 

 

That the larger tires (apparently) go further, and you wrongly claimed it was against the laws of physics for that to be possible is of no concern. 

 

Again, I'm wrong and you're right. 

[josephbloggs]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am wondering if any of the EV evangelists on this thread have thought about what happens when something unforeseen occurs.

 

1/ Battery fails to charge. Apparently the replacement cost is 60-70% of the new cost of the vehicle.

 

2/ A collision. Apparently the slightest damage to the battery component of an EV is cause for the vehicle to be scrapped.

 

3/ Flooding. During Hurricane Ian, there were reports of flooded EV's catching fire.

 

4/ The manufacturer goes bankrupt, or stops manufacturing EV's. Ford, VW, Toyota and GM are all pulling out of offering EV models.

 

That leaves the Chinese, whose after-sales service and financial health are far from transparent.

I have some what ifs for you, in the same order as yours.

1. What if your engine fails?
2. What if you have a collision that causes your car to be scrapped?
3. Flooding. What if you get caught in a huge flood that wrecks your engine?
4. What if your ICE manufacturer goes bankrupt? Chevrolet have gone from Thailand, Saab disappeared, MG went (then came back as a successful Chinese brand), Holden have gone, Triumph, many many others. 

And some extra ones:

5. What if you are filling up and the petrol station catches fire and explodes? Dozens have been killed in this way: 

6. What if your engine seizes up as you didn't top up the oil and you skid off the road in to a ditch and drown?
7.  What happens if your exhaust malfunctions and you get carbon monoxide poising and die?

Who knew, making up ridiculous scenarios can be fun!! Shall we carry on?

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I have some what ifs for you, in the same order as yours.

1. What if your engine fails?
2. What if you have a collision that causes your car to be scrapped?
3. Flooding. What if you get caught in a huge flood that wrecks your engine?
4. What if your ICE manufacturer goes bankrupt? Chevrolet have gone from Thailand, Saab disappeared, MG went (then came back as a successful Chinese brand), Holden have gone, Triumph, many many others. 

And some extra ones:

5. What if you are filling up and the petrol station catches fire and explodes? Dozens have been killed in this way: 

6. What if your engine seizes up as you didn't top up the oil and you skid off the road in to a ditch and drown?
7.  What happens if your exhaust malfunctions and you get carbon monoxide poising and die?

Who knew, making up ridiculous scenarios can be fun!! Shall we carry on?

Anyone would think you were stalking me.

 

AFAIK, ICE's don't generate clouds of toxic fumes, or burn at 2000 C like EV's can. ICE's can be extinguished by fire brigades, EV's can't.

I have been driving for over 60 years. I have never had a front-end collision. Infrequently, I have been rear-ended or T-boned.

I do maintain all my vehicles, so I have never encountered the problems you describe.

 

Sorry, you'll have to carry on the vendetta by yourself. Have fun.

[Lee65]

37 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Sorry, you'll have to carry on the vendetta by yourself. Have fun.

 

A wise choice.  Pointless to argue with Early Adopters.  

[josephbloggs]

14 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

 

A wise choice.  Pointless to argue with Early Adopters.  

I don't own an EV.

Equally I would say it's pointless to argue with people with closed minds who won't even try an EV.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I don't own an EV.

Equally I would say it's pointless to argue with people with closed minds who won't even try an EV.

 

I think I understand the pros and cons of EVs vs ICEVs pretty well.

 

Just speaking economically, for anyone that does not need a new car, buying a new EV would make no sense for the vast majority of people. 

 

For people that need a new car, it might make sense if you have a dedicated parking area configured such that you can charge it at night. Bump that up to probably is you have a decent solar farm and can charge during the day or have storage such that you can charge at night. 

 

For people that need a new car but have no dedicated parking where they can charge, it likely makes little sense. 

 

Of course, the best reason to buy a new car, is because you want a new car. And the best car to buy, is the one you like the best of the ones you can easily afford. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lee65]

39 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I don't own an EV.

 

Don't feel left out.  You're not an Early Adopter but your posts are near as nasty as those of the Early Adopters.  A little more arrogance and I'm sure they'll let you join.

 

[josephbloggs]

33 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I think I understand the pros and cons of EVs vs ICEVs pretty well.

 

Just speaking economically, for anyone that does not need a new car, buying a new EV would make no sense for the vast majority of people. 

 

For people that need a new car, it might make sense if you have a dedicated parking area configured such that you can charge it at night. Bump that up to probably is you have a decent solar farm and can charge during the day or have storage such that you can charge at night. 

 

For people that need a new car but have no dedicated parking where they can charge, it likely makes little sense. 

 

Of course, the best reason to buy a new car, is because you want a new car. And the best car to buy, is the one you like the best of the ones you can easily afford. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with all of that. Home charging is a must, it makes absolutely no sense without that. Also doesn't make sense if you regularly need to drive very long distances.

I will get an EV as my next car as it makes perfect sense for my needs - I have a house that could have a charger installed, I mostly drive in Bangkok with the occasional trip out of town.

[josephbloggs]

13 minutes ago, Lee65 said:

 

Don't feel left out.  You're not an Early Adopter but your posts are near as nasty as those of the Early Adopters.  A little more arrogance and I'm sure they'll let you join.

 

Where am I nasty? Did I hurt someone's feelings? 

I only point out nonsense when people post lies or make up ridiculous scenarios that would never likely happen in your lifetime. Actual reasoned debate is welcome but I just don't generally see it in threads about EVs - the haters just really hate and have very closed minds. I say to them to try one (as I did) and then see what you think. Trying one really changed my opinion on them.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I agree with all of that. Home charging is a must, it makes absolutely no sense without that. Also doesn't make sense if you regularly need to drive very long distances.

I will get an EV as my next car as it makes perfect sense for my needs - I have a house that could have a charger installed, I mostly drive in Bangkok with the occasional trip out of town.

I've been thinking of getting one as well to run around BKK in. I'd keep the 'tuna for the boy to drive and for long trips or extended family outings. I don't know that I would buy one as an only car. 

 

So far, I like the look of the Teslas best in the sub B2M category. Saw one in a matte mint wrap with a few grey accents, it was nice. 

 

Maybe the Motor Show in April...

[HighPriority]

My only issue with a Tesla is the rather odious bloke who sits at the top… buying a Chinese car would hardly sit any better

 

[Gweiloman]

16 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I have some what ifs for you, in the same order as yours.

1. What if your engine fails?
2. What if you have a collision that causes your car to be scrapped?
3. Flooding. What if you get caught in a huge flood that wrecks your engine?
4. What if your ICE manufacturer goes bankrupt? Chevrolet have gone from Thailand, Saab disappeared, MG went (then came back as a successful Chinese brand), Holden have gone, Triumph, many many others. 

And some extra ones:

5. What if you are filling up and the petrol station catches fire and explodes? Dozens have been killed in this way: 

6. What if your engine seizes up as you didn't top up the oil and you skid off the road in to a ditch and drown?
7.  What happens if your exhaust malfunctions and you get carbon monoxide poising and die?

Who knew, making up ridiculous scenarios can be fun!! Shall we carry on?

I can think of a real life scenario (not motor related though) that is not ridiculous and has happened many times before and many people have paid the ultimate price. 
 

What if the plane crashes? That’s why I now avoid flying unless totally unavoidable.

[Gweiloman]

14 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I agree with all of that. Home charging is a must, it makes absolutely no sense without that. Also doesn't make sense if you regularly need to drive very long distances.

I will get an EV as my next car as it makes perfect sense for my needs - I have a house that could have a charger installed, I mostly drive in Bangkok with the occasional trip out of town.

I just today completed a 840 km journey from CM to Isaan. In a PHEV that has a smallish 34 kWh battery, only 120 kms were propelled by petrol. Journey time was probably about an hour or two longer than if I had relied totally on the ICE but would have cost me significantly more in petrol vs charging. The longer breaks were in fact very welcome, especially by my dogs and I would go as far as to say that it made for a safer journey as I was “forced “ to rest more.

 

Main thing is that I wasn’t in a rush so for those super high achievers among us for whom time is money and every second counts, drive an ICEV instead. One thing to note though; not all Bangchak stations are 24/7 so make sure you don’t arrive at one with only vapours lol.

[HighPriority]

18 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I just today completed a 840 km journey from CM to Isaan. In a PHEV that has a smallish 34 kWh battery, only 120 kms were propelled by petrol. Journey time was probably about an hour or two longer than if I had relied totally on the ICE but would have cost me significantly more in petrol vs charging. The longer breaks were in fact very welcome, especially by my dogs and I would go as far as to say that it made for a safer journey as I was “forced “ to rest more.

 

Main thing is that I wasn’t in a rush so for those super high achievers among us for whom time is money and every second counts, drive an ICEV instead. One thing to note though; not all Bangchak stations are 24/7 so make sure you don’t arrive at one with only vapours lol.

Why is the PHEV an hour or two slower ?

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, HighPriority said:

Why is the PHEV an hour or two slower ?

This is because I was stopping longer to charge the battery and as we all know, it takes longer to charge the battery as compared to fill and go with petrol. Even with just a pure ICEV, I would have had stop for meals, toilet breaks for us and our dogs in any case but the stops were just a bit longer. 
 

I should note that this is only possible in a Haval H6 for 2 reasons. First is that the Haval PHEV can accept DC charging speeds up to 47 kWh; most other PHEVs can only accept AC charging. Second reason is that the range is about 160-180 kms per full charge whilst most other PHEVs will only have a range of about 50-60 kms.

[muratremix]

17 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

This is because I was stopping longer to charge the battery and as we all know, it takes longer to charge the battery as compared to fill and go with petrol. Even with just a pure ICEV, I would have had stop for meals, toilet breaks for us and our dogs in any case but the stops were just a bit longer. 
 

I should note that this is only possible in a Haval H6 for 2 reasons. First is that the Haval PHEV can accept DC charging speeds up to 47 kWh; most other PHEVs can only accept AC charging. Second reason is that the range is about 160-180 kms per full charge whilst most other PHEVs will only have a range of about 50-60 kms.

How much 34Kwh battery pack lasted on highway speeds? I assume you drove 110-120 kmh where applicable.

[Photoguy21]

On 12/10/2023 at 2:22 PM, josephbloggs said:

Range anxiety is real. I don't own an EV but I borrowed one for three days for a road trip. I was constantly wondering if the readout was accurate, but actually it was amazingly accurate. (You enter your destination and it tells you how much battery/range you will have when you arrive and also how much you would have left if you chose to drive straight back.). It was a Volvo, not a Tesla, I don't know anything about them exaggerating - what my car showed was accurate. However it all depends on driving style and other factors, just like you never seem to get the mpg advertised. It's on the buyer and how you drive.

If you are contantly doing long journeys, or can't charge at home, then an EV is probably not for you. If you read the article you will see the stats - in the UK 99% of car journeys are less than 100 miles.
 

 

No it isn't at all, that is just not true. Have you heard of BYD?  I will likely be switching to a BYD Seal on my next purchase - top of the range performance model - and it will be the cheapest car I have bought for myself for about 20 years.
 

 

Partly true. However when I drove an EV I used PlugShare and was surprised by the density of charging stations in Thailand. If you are not looking for them you don't notice them. Definitely not a concern in Thailand right now although it remains to be seen if the infrastructure keeps up with sales (which are going through the roof).

 

That remains to be seen. Imagine you keep a car for ten years and your battery has degraded by 20% - it still has value. And in ten years time batteries will likely be much much cheaper than they are now.

A question for you: did you read any of the articles before posting? They cover most of your "concerns" backed up by data.

I am sure some of the EV owners on here (as mentioned, I am not one of them) will chime in with real world experience.

If EV's are so good please tell me why major manufacturers, Toyota, GM for example, are going away from making them? If you like them fine but evidently the majority of drivers dont like them.

[Gweiloman]

4 minutes ago, muratremix said:

How much 34Kwh battery pack lasted on highway speeds? I assume you drove 110-120 kmh where applicable.

I drove at lower speeds than that, as I was driving at night and through some hilly areas, along Hwy 12 and we are in what they call 7 deadly days or something like that. I was probably getting around 170 km per full charge. I consider myself a very economical driver, slow steady acceleration off the lights, coasting wherever applicable (such as coming up to traffic lights and thus regenerating the battery), generally just maintaining as constant a speed as possible. 
 

Another way to eke out as much mileage as possible is to work with the terrain. So for example, on a downhill stretch, I will increase my speed while using as little power as possible and on the subsequent uphill climb, I allow the momentum to bring me as high as possible, all the while with the speed reducing. Basic idea is to use as little power as possible while keeping up forward momentum at safe speeds. Non EV drivers will probably laugh and scoff at such tactics but this actually works for ICEVs as well and most of all, keeps driving fun and reduces boredom and fatigue. 
 

I have been driving this way for years, ever since I first owned a Prius hybrid and came across hypermiling. That is however a bit too boring and dangerous in my opinion.

[josephbloggs]

8 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

If EV's are so good please tell me why major manufacturers, Toyota, GM for example, are going away from making them? If you like them fine but evidently the majority of drivers dont like them.

Evidently people who try them love them, that's why global sales are growing year on year at a huge rate. The US is seeing a slowdown in growth but the US has never embraced these kind of things or things like modern train travel. Norway now has about 84% EV market share but then it has always been more forward looking.

GM announced a split on the co-development project with Honda, but Honda and GM are committed to an electric future, just not together, and mainly due to problems with GM's unions.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/honda-shelves-plan-co-develop-smaller-evs-with-gm-bloomberg-news-2023-10-25/#:~:text="After extensive studies and analysis,only electrified vehicles by 2040.

Toyota sat on their hands for so long (as did Honda) that they have a lot of catching up to do. They are putting a lot of their eggs in  alternate technologies in the hope there'll be a breakthrough that will give them an edge in the future, but meanwhile they are committed to EVs, expecting to sell 3.5m of them by 2030.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g38986745/car-brands-going-electric/

I really don't know where you get your information from (actually I can have a good guess). Why not try one yourself? A test drive is free. Getting back in an ICEV afterwards feel like your gone back in time a few decades, more so if you are climbing back in to a diesel.

And before you come back with it, I'll get there first: EVs are not suitable for everyone. You need to have home charging. And if you need to drive several hundred kms at a time on a regular basis then an EV is not suitable for you. But for most of us they are worth looking at. I was a sceptic until someone let me try one for a period of time.
 

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, Photoguy21 said:

If EV's are so good please tell me why major manufacturers, Toyota, GM for example, are going away from making them? If you like them fine but evidently the majority of drivers dont like them.

I know this post is not directed at me but I would like to add my 2 cents worth if you don’t mind.

 

I feel a lot has to do with simple economics and some geopolitics as well. When China was manufacturing ICEVs, they quickly realised that they weren’t competitive and probably won’t be for a long time due to the lead that the legacy automakers have as well as the outdated and bias views that the west have on China made products. So in a stroke of genius and brilliance, they decided to take the lead in what was then a new segment of the automotive industry ie EVs. They already had some strategic advantages such as control of a lot of the rare earth metals needed and had been quietly controlling the lithium mining industry. Government subsidies probably helped tremendously in building up the industry too.
 

Legacy makers, particularly the Japanese were caught napping with their pants down. Like Confucius once said, girl with skirt up runs faster than man with pants down. The Chinese have built up such high barriers to entry that makers like BMW and Stellantis have decided the best way to compete is just to go into partnership with Chinese automakers.

 

Your last statement about majority of drivers not liking them. This is just down to a lack of knowledge and prejudices. This forum is a classic representation of that. Most anti EVers on here have not even sat in an EV (and not intending to, I might add) and yet they try to tell some of us who owns EVs that they know better. One poster even predicted that the EV industry will collapse in a few years time, much like how the Chinese economy will collapse in 17 days (said since years ago but with the timeline getting pushed down the road every week or so).

[JBChiangRai]

17 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

If EV's are so good please tell me why major manufacturers, Toyota, GM for example, are going away from making them? If you like them fine but evidently the majority of drivers dont like them.

 

Firstly, they are not moving away from EV's.  They are finding it extremely difficult to compete with Chinese manufacturers and this is limiting their market.

 

If they don't get their act together they will go the way of British Automakers like British Leyland.  Some form of state protectionism in target markets by applying tariffs on Chinese vehicles might help them, but that is not going to be popular.