Illegal guns, not gun control laws, are the problem in Thailand

[webfact]

In addressing the issue of gun violence in Thailand, it’s essential to delve into the nuances and complexities of the problem.

 

Often, the discourse gravitates towards broad-stroke solutions like gun control, but this overlooks a critical aspect of the crisis: the prevalence of illegal firearms. The crux of Thailand’s gun problem lies not primarily in the laws on the books, but in the underground currents that circulate these illegal weapons.

 

Thailand’s legal framework for gun ownership is, in fact, relatively strict. The process involves thorough background checks, mental health assessments, and reasons for gun ownership. However, the effectiveness of these regulations is undermined by the rampant circulation of illegal firearms. These weapons, often untraceable and easily accessible, are the true catalysts of gun-related crimes in Thailand. It’s a clandestine market that thrives in the shadows, far from the reach of regulatory measures. The ease with which these weapons can be acquired poses a grave challenge to public safety and law enforcement efforts.

 

The origin of these illegal arms is multifaceted. Many come from across borders, smuggled in from neighboring countries with less stringent controls. Others are remnants of past conflicts, circulating within the country for decades. 

 

by Arun Saronchai

 

Full story: THAI ENQUIRER 2023-12-14

 

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[ChrisY1]

The current laws are fine....however, there should be no further issuance of licenses to anyone..guns should be banned!

The black market for guns is huge..driven by demand. The cops are part of that...so it'll never be stopped. 

No-one takes a knife to a fight nowadays...they all have hand guns!

 

[mikebell]

21 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

The current laws are fine

Across many walks of Thai society; what is missing is enforcement: helmets/seatbelts/blackout car windows all obvious to a disinterested police force.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

In addressing the issue of gun violence in Thailand, it’s essential to delve into the nuances and complexities of the problem.

yes every Tom Dick and Somchai carries a gun, the issue is how willing they are to use 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

However, the effectiveness of these regulations is undermined by the rampant circulation of illegal firearms. These weapons, often untraceable and easily accessible, are the true catalysts of gun-related crimes in Thailand. It’s a clandestine market that thrives in the shadows, far from the reach of regulatory measures. The ease with which these weapons can be acquired poses a grave challenge to public safety and law enforcement efforts.

Some truth at last.

[Dogmatix]

6 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

The current laws are fine....however, there should be no further issuance of licenses to anyone..guns should be banned!

The black market for guns is huge..driven by demand. The cops are part of that...so it'll never be stopped. 

No-one takes a knife to a fight nowadays...they all have hand guns!

 

 

Your arguments are somewhat contradictory. You want no new licenses to be issues but admit there is huge demand for guns that can't be stopped.  So not issuing new licenses would make those who really want guns for legitimate purposes and would have been able to afford a legal gun buy on the black market, thus increasing the supply of illegal and untraceable guns.  

 

Also, if the current gun laws are fine, why not just keeping on issuing licenses according to the current gun laws.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dogmatix

[PETERTHEEATER]

I like the image of all those 'Thai' faces sitting around the bonfire waiting for the flames to reach the loaded magazines at the bottom of the pile......

[Will B Good]

The US allegedly sold 400,000 hand guns to the RTP last year.

 

With 'only' 200,000 police......where are they all?? 

[Dogmatix]

There has been plenty of grandstanding on this by Anutin announcing ineffective measures like registering all BB guns, which he doesn't have the authority to do without amending the law, and stopping the issuance of carry permits, which is also doesn't have the authority to do because that is the police chief's turf. But this is all designed to get him attention, not to have any impact on gun violence which he probably doesn't care about. 

 

On the other hand the new police chief, Pol Gen Torsak has publicly acknowledged that the problem is the estimated 4 million illegal guns which are used to commit about 90% of gun violence. 

[Dogmatix]

3 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

The US allegedly sold 400,000 hand guns to the RTP last year.

 

With 'only' 200,000 police......where are they all?? 

 

These Sig Sauers were imported by the interior ministry for the civil service welfare scheme.  The deal was negotiated by the police chief on the basis the guns for police to buy from the civil service welfare scheme. But obviously a lot them went to civil servants other than police or anyone qualified for the scheme which includes state enterprise employees and village defense volunteers. When negotiating with the US they always emphasise the scheme is for law enforcement officers and for self protection for people like teachers in government schools in the south that have been targeted by terrorists.  Anyway I hope that answers your question.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

These Sig Sauers were imported by the interior ministry for the civil service welfare scheme.  The deal was negotiated by the police chief on the basis the guns for police to buy from the civil service welfare scheme. But obviously a lot them went to civil servants other than police or anyone qualified for the scheme which includes state enterprise employees and village defense volunteers. When negotiating with the US they always emphasise the scheme is for law enforcement officers and for self protection for people like teachers in government schools in the south that have been targeted by terrorists.  Anyway I hope that answers your question.

Are you the new Liverpool Lou....555

[brianthainess]

9 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

The current laws are fine...

I have to disagree, no law here says guns must be locked  in a gun cabinet, bolted to a wall, hence thief's and kids can just take them/pick them up and use them, gun laws here are a joke. Children and adults have died playing with daddy's gun.

[khaowong1]

And I would say the same for the United States, illegal guns is the problem, not gun control.  

[herfiehandbag]

Let's be realistic, it is the same in just about every sphere of criminal behaviour here. There is no shortage of laws, no shortage of Policemen to enforce them. What is in short supply ( practically none existent) is any will, desire, ability, understanding of or attempt to enforce those laws.

 

Again, let us be realistic, the police are only active in any field which benefits them - financially or materially. If it can't be dealt with by either a spot fine ( no paperwork) or presents the more senior ranks with "an opportunity" then it is ignored.

Edited December 14, 2023 by herfiehandbag

[dinsdale]

Guns are the problem. Legal or not. Sadly another problem is adults with the emotional control of a baby having a tantrum have them.

[Chris Daley]

Silly infant nations.  England already solved this problem.  We never have mass shootings and a much lower rate of gun crime.

[dinsdale]

36 minutes ago, khaowong1 said:

And I would say the same for the United States, illegal guns is the problem, not gun control.  

Most mass shootings in the US if not all are committed with legal firearms.

[natway09]

Not sure agree with the headline, but there is a huge overlap anyway

[KhunLA]

Edited December 14, 2023 by KhunLA

[it is what it is]

 

the uk may have issues with knife crime, but you can;t fault the effectiveness of the approach to and application of gun control legislation. it can be done.

[KhunLA]

46 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

Silly infant nations.  England already solved this problem.  We never have mass shootings and a much lower rate of gun crime.

List of mass shootings in the United Kingdom

 

"in the year ending September 2022, a total of 6,369 firearm offences were reported in the United Kingdom"

Edited December 14, 2023 by KhunLA

[V8M8]

13 hours ago, smedly said:

yes every Tom Dick and Somchai carries a gun, the issue is how willing they are to use 

There in lies one of the many problems Smedly, Tom, Dick and Somchai are more than likely on Ya Ba so there is often nothing stopping them from letting loose. 

[V8M8]

7 hours ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

I like the image of all those 'Thai' faces sitting around the bonfire waiting for the flames to reach the loaded magazines at the bottom of the pile......

Yeah, it is a cool CG image but still, it does generate a smidgeon of hope that the expected explosive thermal reaction occurs.

[V8M8]

8 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

 

Your arguments are somewhat contradictory. You want no new licenses to be issues but admit there is huge demand for guns that can't be stopped.  So not issuing new licenses would make those who really want guns for legitimate purposes and would have been able to afford a legal gun buy on the black market, thus increasing the supply of illegal and untraceable guns.  

 

Also, if the current gun laws are fine, why not just keeping on issuing licenses according to the current gun laws.

No contradiction. The laws are being broken and need to be reigned back in to assist with a bit of control. There are no legitimate resons for a private citizen in Thailand to hold a firearms licence. That in it's self creates a stronger black market demand for illeagle weapons and given the propensity of the police and armed forces in this country to succumb to coruption there does not seem to be any limit to the supply. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by V8M8

[V8M8]

1 hour ago, Chris Daley said:

Silly infant nations.  England already solved this problem.  We never have mass shootings and a much lower rate of gun crime.

I suspect sheer luck so far. Lot's of stabbings and terroist attacks there from what I have have read.

We in little old sleepy, self indulgent, smug New Zealand were thinking the same as you until not long ago. 

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, Chris Daley said:

Silly infant nations.  England already solved this problem.  We never have mass shootings and a much lower rate of gun crime.

OZ and NZ the same. Guns are locked away, if not no license they actually come and check.

[Andycoops]

Illegal guns here are facilitated by the people authorised to carry them as we see in armouries that when audited are missing firearms, sometimes 10s of them.

Not to mention the in effective border control.

[Dogmatix]

On 12/14/2023 at 3:25 PM, Will B Good said:

Are you the new Liverpool Lou....555

 

Maybe someone else has a clue what this means.

[Dogmatix]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:11 AM, Andycoops said:

Illegal guns here are facilitated by the people authorised to carry them as we see in armouries that when audited are missing firearms, sometimes 10s of them.

Not to mention the in effective border control.

 

It is true. A soldier in charge of an armoury in Chonburi and left in the same job for years was found to have sold a couple of hundred thousand rounds of military grade 5.56 ammo.  This stuff is sold all over at much lower prices than legal imports of 5.56 and .223 ammo. The military also destroys stocks of rifle and pistol ammo that is over 10 years or so old. A lot of this ammo is not actually destroyed but gets out into the black market. 

[Dogmatix]

On 12/14/2023 at 11:09 PM, brianthainess said:

OZ and NZ the same. Guns are locked away, if not no license they actually come and check.

 

Some of the UK, Oz and NZ rules that are more liberal than Thailand would be welcomed by sports shooters here.  Those countries have vigorous hunting and target rifle communities. Thailand has no hunting but a growing community of target rifle shooters. In those countries you have to keep rifles and ammo secured but you are allowed to hand load ammo and buy replacement barrels which are not allowed here.  You are also allowed to taken your gun and ammo to the range, unloaded and properly separated, whereas Thai cops will shake you down and say ridiculous things like you should have a concealed carry permit, if they find your rifle and ammo in the car, despite the fact you have a license to use it for sport. This is, of course, an excuse to shake down sports shooters for cash because the law is vague on this point.  How can you use a rifle for sport, if you can't take it out of the house?

 

Personally I am not so interested in handguns any more and wouldn't care too much, if they stopped issuing licenses for them.  However, I would like to keep one or two of the licensed handguns I have at home to protect my family, since I already have them. Nevertheless it has to be said that that there is a huge sports shooting community in Thailand and over 90% of it is handguns.  This is huge business and it is going to be difficult to shut this down.  Anyway over 90% of gun violence involves illegal guns.  If the police could shut a fraction of that down, it would be a big positive.