Is my landlord extorting me on filing a TM 30?

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

Please don't say to put 400k in a Thai bank and make a meter tall stack of copies and pour blood, sweat and tears into doing it every year.  I love to travel for recreation anyway, and have had several minor surgeries in neighboring countries because I find the hospitals of higher quality, cheaper, and less scams...as we have seen with the Taiwansese man who died in the hit and run, amongst several foreigners being held what I can only consider being held hostage and over charged, and dual pricing, etc.  I don't mind exiting and entering every 90 days or so with a fresh stamp in my passport.

 

Why don't you just find some other country to live in that you do not think is treating you poorly... the rules say that 400k or 40k/month is requirement for marriage visa... you think that you are obviously better than that... you don't comply then you complain... what a total douche...  If, however, you have already extended your non-immigrant visa to a longer visa, extended retirement visa or an extended marriage visa, at the Thai immigration office, the 90-day visa run is no longer needed. You do however need to do the 90-day reporting of your address at Thai immigration when the visa has been extended for 12 months.

[Twod0gs]

Have you tried the site https://tm30.io/

You can submit a TM30 in less than a minute and get instant confirmation.

 

[bamnutsak]

21 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30

 

 

 

So your landlord is subletting this apartment to you? This makes things more challenging. Does the owner know about this relationship? Is your "landlord" some sort of agent for the owner?

 

 I'd try to contact the owner, get a copy of the Blue Book and owner's ID, and then register the apartment myself on the TM 30 website.

 

Ask the owner to scan and email these documents, some Thais prefer to draw a few lines through the copy of their ID and write "For Immigration Only" on it for fear of identity theft. Registering is quite easy.

 

 

[Liquorice]

20 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

If you are on continuous stay based on extensions etc and travel throughout Thailand to various provinces you do not need to file a TM30 when you return to your residence.

Also if you travel internationally and return with eg reentry permit then again you do not need to file a TM30.

I believe from the OP's statement, he has a Non Imm O ME visa, hence his 90-day exit and re-entries.

22 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

I have been doing this for a few years now, every 90 days or so upon exiting and entering the country. 

In that case, he will have to submit a new TM30 for each 90 day entry.

The new TM30 regulations only state there is no further requirement to file a new TM30, provided your permission of stay has not yet ended.
The OP's permission of stay ends each time he exits, and he receives a new permission of stay on re-entry.

[Liquorice]

21 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

Well, I have a one year visa, but I am required to enter and exit every 90 days.

No you're not.

You can apply for a 60-day extension for each entry, in which case a border run is required for a new entry every 150 days.

You can stay in Thailand for almost 17 months with a Non Imm O ME visa, with only 3 border runs and 3 x 60 day extensions before applying for a new Non O ME visa.

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

The OP's permission of stay ends each time he exits, and he receives a new permission of stay on re-entry

I thought that way also, however from the thread I posted earlier this is written as clarification regards para 2.2....

 

"The second paragraph is stating that if a person on a multiple entry visa or has an extension of stay and enters using a re-entry permit a new TM30 report is not required." 

 

[bamnutsak]

https://aseannow.com/topic/1169664-thai-immigration-announce-changes-to-tm30-reporting/

 

 

 

Note that some offices may have their own unique interpretation of this, and seem to require a new TM 30.

 

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, keysersoze276 said:

I believe you are wrong. At least partially.  From what I understand the hotel, landlord, etc is obligated to report the TM30 upon arrival. However, I can’t understand why I have to pay for ir every time I get back home. 

Never done a TM30 in my life (Bangkok)

[Liquorice]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I thought that way also, however from the thread I posted earlier this is written as clarification regards para 2.2....

 

"The second paragraph is stating that if a person on a multiple entry visa or has an extension of stay and enters using a re-entry permit a new TM30 report is not required." 

 

You are perfectly correct Jack.

After 2.2 it states;

The alien mentioned in paragraph 1 shall include any alien receiving a multiply entry visa who departs the Kingdom and returns within the validity of visa and any alien permitted to re-enter into the Kingdom with a valid re-entry permit.

[Phulublub]

20 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Also if you travel internationally and return with eg reentry permit then again you do not need to file a TM30.

 

Not true in the case of Chon Buri, who now require a TM30 dated after the last time you entered Thailand

 

PH

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Not true in the case of Chon Buri, who now require a TM30 dated after the last time you entered Thailand

 

There are approx 75 immigration offices and silly to list rogue offices everytime a post is made.

The main culprit in relation TM30 is CM. 

 

[Liquorice]

@keysersoze276

Just who advised you to file a new TM30 on each 90 day entry?

According to the new TM30 Thai regulations issued June 5th 2020, those re-entering with a valid multi entry visa are not required to file a new TM30 for each entry.

TM30 reporting regulation (Eng).pdf 

Quote;  The alien mentioned in paragraph 1 shall include any alien receiving a multiply entry visa who departs the Kingdom and returns within the validity of visa and any alien permitted to re-enter into the Kingdom with a valid re-entry permit.

 

Also, who informed you it was the landlord's responsibility to file TM30's.
This is not the case.

According to the Immigration Act, the tenant as the possessor is just as equally responsible as the owner or landlord, hence aliens are often fined for non-compliance.

You can register and file TM30's online https://tm30.immigration.go.th/tm30api/loginExternal.jsp?value=EXT&id=01087a0f2a9f21d50583234777c700c2 or in person.

You will need a copy of the owners Tabien Baan and their ID card, which the landlord should supply.
In the event (which I've come across) the landlord refuses or states they don't have, then advise Immigration, and they'll read her the riot act!

[Liquorice]

11 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Not true in the case of Chon Buri, who now require a TM30 dated after the last time you entered Thailand

 

PH

You have of course taken the issue up with Chonburi for non-compliance of Immigrations regulations?

[Phulublub]

39 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

You have of course taken the issue up with Chonburi for non-compliance of Immigrations regulations?

Like that would work!

 

I do my own TM30, so will have that for next extension (and for any other reason I may need to visit Immigration - 90 day online so hopefully just once a year).  I posted in an effort to warn those who may be unaware that (in Chon Buri certainly, but quite possibly in other offices) they will need an updated TM30 if they have been out of the Country.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

Actually...para 2.2 talks about a multiple rentry VISA  Many of us have reentry PERMITS attached to our extensions of stay - so maybe Chon Buri (and others) are actually correct?

 

PH

[Skipalongcassidy]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

I believe from the OP's statement, he has a Non Imm O ME visa, hence his 90-day exit and re-entries.

 

The OP clearly states that he is on a non o marriage visa... has nothing to do with multiple or single entry... If he is truly on what he says than there is no need to 90 day border runs... " If, however, you have already extended your non-immigrant visa to a longer visa, extended retirement visa or an extended marriage visa, at the Thai immigration office, the 90-day visa run is no longer needed. You do however need to do the 90-day reporting of your address at Thai immigration when the visa has been extended for 12 months"... Nor does he have to file a TM30 when he returns from any traveling as long as he has a re-entry permit.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

Do it yourself - if it is needed.  Download TM28 which is the form for Foreigner to lodge in person at Immi Office.

Download Form – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

 

I learned my lesson about Thais 'doing things for you' many years ago. After moving into a house I asked the 'agent' for details of a gardener. She said no problemo I will organise for you - I then paid her the money.  When it was decided some months later we no longer needed a gardner my wife asked her how much she was being paid - the agent was taking half of the money we paid. Thais will gladly 'help' you do anything, but it is in their culture that they will charge you for doing it. They rarely do something for others for nothing. 

[Liquorice]

33 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

The OP clearly states that he is on a non o marriage visa... has nothing to do with multiple or single entry... If he is truly on what he says than there is no need to 90 day border runs..

The OP is clearly on a Non Imm O multi entry visa based on Thai spouse obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.
The Non Imm O ME visa is valid for 12 months and only permits stays of 90 days on each entry.

 

33 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

If he is truly on what he says than there is no need to 90 day border runs... " If, however, you have already extended your non-immigrant visa to a longer visa, extended retirement visa or an extended marriage visa, at the Thai immigration office, the 90-day visa run is no longer needed.

Oh, FFS!

Visas cannot be extended. Single entry visas are 'used' on entry. Multiple entry visas expire on the 'enter before' date.

You extend your temporary permission of stay at Immigration offices.

If you read the forms you complete for your extension applications, it would be clear you are applying to extend your temporary permission of stay (TM7) and the STM2 form you complete acknowledging the terms and conditions for the 'permit' of stay, clearly indicates you are applying for and will receive a 'permit of stay' for one year.
 

 

[Liquorice]

14 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Do it yourself - if it is needed.  Download TM28 which is the form for Foreigner to lodge in person at Immi Office.

Download Form – สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง – Immigration Bureau

 

The TM28 was scrapped in 2020.
https://aseannow.com/topic/1149328-tm28-thai-immigration-scraps-requirement-for-foreigners-to-report-when-they-stay-away-from-home-for-24-hours/

 

16 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I learned my lesson about Thais 'doing things for you' many years ago. After moving into a house I asked the 'agent' for details of a gardener. She said no problemo I will organise for you - I then paid her the money.  When it was decided some months later we no longer needed a gardner my wife asked her how much she was being paid - the agent was taking half of the money we paid. Thais will gladly 'help' you do anything, but it is in their culture that they will charge you for doing it. They rarely do something for others for nothing. 

Off-topic, but you needed an agent to recommend a gardener - really!
Didn't you think to just ask the locals?

Agents are not charitable institutions, they run a business, and charge for services they provide.

[Liquorice]

44 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Like that would work!

Have you tried?

Folks assume all Immigration officers are familiar with their own regulations, which is not always the case.

[Seeall]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:43 AM, keysersoze276 said:

I’ll give it a go and report back to you guys. 

should "give it a go before!"

[TroubleandGrumpy]

4 hours ago, Liquorice said:

The TM28 was scrapped in 2020.
https://aseannow.com/topic/1149328-tm28-thai-immigration-scraps-requirement-for-foreigners-to-report-when-they-stay-away-from-home-for-24-hours/

 

Off-topic, but you needed an agent to recommend a gardener - really!
Didn't you think to just ask the locals?

Agents are not charitable institutions, they run a business, and charge for services they provide.

Well aint the smart one eh - but maybe your smaetness missed a few points.

 

I used the TM28 to report my new address to the local Immigration Office very recently - so yes it still can be used.  Surely you know being so smart that it is not what the rules are in Thailand, it is what the authorities say they are.

 

Yes of course - but half of what we were paying - and it was during my first stay in Thailand way back in time. I learned from my lessons and I guess you being so smart maybe you might learned something this time?

[Jumbo1968]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:39 AM, keysersoze276 said:

I believe you are wrong. At least partially.  From what I understand the hotel, landlord, etc is obligated to report the TM30 upon arrival. However, I can’t understand why I have to pay for ir every time I get back home. 

There have been several posts on Facebook recently where renters say they have to do the TM30 because the house owner won’t do one. I can’t understand why the renters feel they have to, as the op says it’s the owner’s responsibility, surely a renter can’t be fined at immigration if a TM30 hasn’t been filed on their behalf ?

[khunPer]

On 12/19/2023 at 4:24 AM, keysersoze276 said:

My landlord (not the owner), claims she cannot register a TM30 (proof of residency) online because the system doesn't work.

There is a new online system since September this year – link HERE – the old system don't work anymore, and no data has been transferred, so your landlord needs to register again.

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Well aint the smart one eh - but maybe your smaetness missed a few points.

 

I used the TM28 to report my new address to the local Immigration Office very recently - so yes it still can be used.  Surely you know being so smart that it is not what the rules are in Thailand, it is what the authorities say they are.

It was the Immigration authorities that scrapped the TM28, just prior to issuing the new TM30 regulations.

The TM27 replaced the TM28.

If you move to a new permanent residency, it's the TM30 they require.

 

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

There have been several posts on Facebook recently where renters say they have to do the TM30 because the house owner won’t do one. I can’t understand why the renters feel they have to, as the op says it’s the owner’s responsibility, surely a renter can’t be fined at immigration if a TM30 hasn’t been filed on their behalf ?

The responsibility to file a TM30 lies between either the owner, landlord or the tenant.
This is why tenants are fined by Immigration because it's just as much their responsibility as the owner or landlord.

 

Section 38 of the Immigration Act states;
The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence, or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours, dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

Section 4 of the Act defines who is classed as a housemaster.

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house, whether in the capacity of owner, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever, in accordance with the law on people act.

 

So as a tenant and also the possessor of the house you are by definition classed as the housemaster and therefore responsible to file a TM30 and/or be fined for non-compliance.

[Skipalongcassidy]

20 hours ago, Liquorice said:

The OP is clearly on a Non Imm O multi entry visa based on Thai spouse obtained from a Thai Embassy/Consulate.
The Non Imm O ME visa is valid for 12 months and only permits stays of 90 days on each entry.

 

Oh, FFS!

Visas cannot be extended. Single entry visas are 'used' on entry. Multiple entry visas expire on the 'enter before' date.

You extend your temporary permission of stay at Immigration offices.

If you read the forms you complete for your extension applications, it would be clear you are applying to extend your temporary permission of stay (TM7) and the STM2 form you complete acknowledging the terms and conditions for the 'permit' of stay, clearly indicates you are applying for and will receive a 'permit of stay' for one year.
 

 

Then the real problem is that the OP is gaming the system and is now complaining about having to pay 500 baht for inconveniencing his landlord every time that he leaves and reenters the country... If I were his landlord it would be allot more than 500 baht... you have assumed that he is not on a marriage visa... I assumed that if he was here living full time and married to a Thai wife that he is on a marriage visa... why don't we ask him which it is?

[it is what it is]

 

you could take the bus...

[Liquorice]

11 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Then the real problem is that the OP is gaming the system and is now complaining about having to pay 500 baht for inconveniencing his landlord every time that he leaves and reenters the country... If I were his landlord it would be allot more than 500 baht... you have assumed that he is not on a marriage visa... I assumed that if he was here living full time and married to a Thai wife that he is on a marriage visa... why don't we ask him which it is?

There is no type of visa known as a 'marriage' visa.

There is the Non Imm O single and multiple entry visa types that can be applied for based on Thai spouse.
The OP has a valid Non Imm O ME visa issued legitimately by a Thai Embassy/Consulate, so how is he gaming the system?

 

The second point being it's already been established that under the new TM30 regulations (2020) there should be no requirement to file any further TM30's on entry from a valid multi entry visa.

 

I believe you're confusing a 1-year extension of stay issued by Immigration offices, with visas issued by Thai Embassies/Consulates.
Annual extension stamps issued by Immigration are permits, not visas.

[dcalaska]

Your landlord likes to be paid for her time. 500 B seems reasonable. 

Hopefully Thai immigration will get the online system running again and then you can do it yourself in the future.