install water line in tunnel under concrete walk

[gamb00ler]

An oversight during planning of new home construction has resulted in two small area of the yard without access to water for automated irrigation for landscaping.

 

In both cases there is water nearby but a concrete walk is in the way.  The neatest solution would be a short tunnel under the walk to run a PVC supply to the dry area.

 

The walk is 2.2m wide in the first case and 1.2 in the second.  Concrete is 20cm thick in both or maybe only 15cm.

 

The first case is also complicated by the restricted area available between the walk and the building walls.  It's only 85cm on both sides.  However selecting route B would give more open working area for the digging.

 

Does anyone know of companies in Chiang Mai that can create tunnels in these situations?

 

I have a decent landscaping company but they only advise that it could be done by hand with substantial labor.  But labor in Thailand is cheap so I don't think the price would be shocking.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by gamb00ler

[Morch]

That's a nice pavement choice, pity.

 

Not in CM, so don't know any relevant firms. We had (well, have) a similar issue, but with plain concrete. The only offer we got was to either dig and patch or to redo the whole thing.

 

No decision so far (3 years down the line) so still watering by hose.

[Swiss1960]

Taking out the tiles, creating the tunnel, putting in the pipes and reseal/retile everything is probably cheaper than finding a "specialist" that is able to drive a tunnel under your walkway in such confined spaces

[Morch]

Forgot to add - get a hold of extra tiles, preferably of the same lot (because of color variations) so that if patching is needed it'll look more or less ok.

[gamb00ler]

The walk way surface is stamped concrete not tiles.

 

Currently my plan is to dig down about a meter and a large enough area to work plus more area to collect run off water.  Then I will start a tunnel with a slight upward incline.  Once started I would then use high pressure water to increase the length of the tunnel.  The upward incline should allow the water to drain back so I can bail it out.  I'm not so sure the incline would be maintained for much distance and may prove ineffective.

Edited December 21, 2023 by gamb00ler

[gamb00ler]

Another possible method I'm considering is trying to punch through the dirt about 10-15 cm below the bottom of the concrete with a 2" PVC pipe.  Perhaps also periodically insert a 1/2" PVC pipe inside the 2" pipe to run high pressure water to the front to make it easier to push the 2" pipe through the soil.

 

The procedure would be to pound the 2" pipe forward, pull it out and hopefully create a short tunnel, then empty the dirt out of it.  At some point it may become too difficult to push the 2" pipe further.  When that happens run some high pressure water down the 1/2" PVC to soften/remove dirt at the tip of the 2" pipe.

Edited December 21, 2023 by gamb00ler

[Fruit Trader]

We used the jet method for electrical duct over about 1.5M in a tight space using water hose and a short piece of leader pipe.

 

Example :-

 

 

[gamb00ler]

6 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

We used the jet method for electrical duct over about 1.5M in a tight space using water hose and a short piece of leader pipe.

Yeah!   That should work.  I didn't think about just using the PVC pipe with a cap to make a high pressure water jet.

 

 

Thanks!

[bunnydrops]

9 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

We used the jet method for electrical duct over about 1.5M in a tight space using water hose and a short piece of leader pipe.

 

Example :-

 

 

I've seen that method used to drill shallow wells. Cut teeth on the end of a 2" pvc and make a clamp to twist the pipe, put a hose on the other end, and run the water down the pipe while twisting it back and forth. Pretty fast if there aren't any rocks.

[chickenslegs]

Might it be easier to tunnel under your garbage bin, and re-route the pipework. More space to work in.

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Might it be easier to tunnel under your garbage bin, and re-route the pipework. More space to work in.

I considered that route too, but there's a grey water manhole and a concrete box between the garbage bin and the wall.  The house water supply line is between that concrete manhole and the wall.... too many complications for that route.

[gamb00ler]

Thanks for all the useful tips.  I might try and combine the 1/2" PVC pipe with cap and hole and cutting "teeth" in the front end of the 2" PVC drilling tube.  Easy peasy... I hope! 😃

[MrJ2U]

18 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Taking out the tiles, creating the tunnel, putting in the pipes and reseal/retile everything is probably cheaper than finding a "specialist" that is able to drive a tunnel under your walkway in such confined spaces

If you can get the replacement tile it"ll be a two day job.

 

Luckily labor is cheap. 

[cracker1]

You could consider using "High pressure Water" to lead a pipe under the concrete. If your pump is not up to it you may have to borrow a bigger one, but should me manageable for the short distances you require. In your case you may need the flexibility of a hose rather than a pipe or alternately small sections of pipe and keep joining them together as it is fed through ?

[gamb00ler]

4 minutes ago, cracker1 said:

In your case you may need the flexibility of a hose rather than a pipe or alternately small sections of pipe and keep joining them together as it is fed through ?

I think you're correct for the situation with less room to access the walkway.  

[brianthainess]

20 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Yeah!   That should work.  I didn't think about just using the PVC pipe with a cap to make a high pressure water jet.

 

 

Thanks!

You may have to twist the 'leader' pipe back and forth to help clear it so have some method in mind to do that, like vice grips. 

[The Theory]

How thick is the cement under tiles ? Just cut the tiles from grout line (like a piece of cake) put it back after work is done. You need to hire a guy with tools. 

[Ralf001]

6 minutes ago, The Theory said:

How thick is the cement under tiles ? 

[Bill97]

21 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

The walk way surface is stamped concrete not tiles

 

3 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

21 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Taking out the tiles, creating the tunnel, putting in the pipes and reseal/retile everything is probably cheaper than finding a "specialist" that is able to drive a tunnel under your walkway in such confined spaces

If you can get the replacement tile

 

26 minutes ago, The Theory said:

How thick is the cement under tiles ? 

What is it about ???king tiles?

[The Theory]

12 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

IMO cutting tiles is easier than digging a tunnel under the tiles, especially in Photo #1. There is not enough space on the sides. Photo # 2 would be easier for digging a tunnel.

[Ralf001]

55 minutes ago, The Theory said:

IMO cutting tiles is easier than digging a tunnel under the tiles, especially in Photo #1. There is not enough space on the sides. Photo # 2 would be easier for digging a tunnel.

[charleskerins]

First photo you well have a helluva time tunneling  not enough room ,second photo no problem

 is it stamped concrete or tile?    if tile labor intensive but can be done if concrete    think outside the box

[gamb00ler]

4 hours ago, brianthainess said:

You may have to twist the 'leader' pipe back and forth to help clear it so have some method in mind to do that, like vice grips. 

At one time I had a strap with an attached handle that was used to twist off automotive oil filters of various sizes.  I probably still have it .... somewhere.  At least I could use it to turn the pipe in one direction which should be enough.  If I don't find it I could drill a hole through the pipe near the outside end and use a small metal bar through the hole as a lever to turn the pipe.  Hopefully I won't need to apply too much force to turn the PVC pipe.

Edited December 22, 2023 by gamb00ler

[gamb00ler]

4 hours ago, The Theory said:

IMO cutting tiles is easier than digging a tunnel under the tiles, especially in Photo #1. There is not enough space on the sides. Photo # 2 would be easier for digging a tunnel.

The walkway surface is NOT TILES.

In Photo #1, I show two lines A and B.  Line A is shorter but more difficult because there is little room to work between the walkway and the wall.  Line B is longer but the right side probably has enough room to allow the tunneling operation.  

Edited December 22, 2023 by gamb00ler

[Photoguy21]

On 12/21/2023 at 12:31 PM, Swiss1960 said:

Taking out the tiles, creating the tunnel, putting in the pipes and reseal/retile everything is probably cheaper than finding a "specialist" that is able to drive a tunnel under your walkway in such confined spaces

And put protective tiles over the pipes

[freeworld]

Its a very small section.

 

Dig a small pit on both sides, put a pipe sleeve say 75 mm dia under the slab that you can pass the water pipes through. Cut small sections of pvc pipes and with some connectors, use a jack and wooden shimming and step by step jack the pvc pipe sleeve through. In the sleeve you can use a jet of water or thin rebar rodding to soften the ground at the cutting edge.

 

Maybe only one sleeve is required under that section of the 2 pipes you show, once you pass the pipes through the sleeve you can direct both pipes to where you want them.

Edited December 22, 2023 by freeworld

[gamb00ler]

32 minutes ago, freeworld said:

use a jack and wooden shimming and step by step jack the pvc pipe sleeve through.

I grew up on a farm with various types and sizes of jacks available.  But now I've become just a typical urban dweller in possession of only car tire changing jacks and no useful wooden shim material.  Maybe I could get one of those to boost the forward pressure on the pipe.

[MrJ2U]

8 hours ago, Bill97 said:

 

 

What is it about ???king tiles?

Nice walkway nonetheless.

 

Much easier to replace also. Get some good PVC pipe from SCG if you finally pool the trigger and get the job done.

 

Nice to have water accessible everywhere without having to drag the hose around.

 

Good luck. 

[xtrnuno41]

IF you take soil away under the concrete path for the water pipe, you never get support back for the pavement.

In time maybe you could have a crack in your pavement. Concrete is reinforced?

I know, you said it is 15 -20 cm thick, so maybe no problem at all. But guess, you know Murphy and his law.

Keep the tunnel as small as possible, as likely also soil will disappear side ways under concrete, water jetting.

Depending on soil (sand or clay?) and how compressed it is. Or lots of stones in soil.

I know in Thailand there is soil as hard as a rock, really hard to crash, mostly used as fill up.

Then low pressure water jetting doesnt work.

Probably would do the same with a water jet. Nice video showing easy how. Try & error.(hopefully not)

[The Theory]

10 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Then it's even better. Easy to reconstruct it. 
A and B can't be together (parallel), change direction after underpass ?