Provisional Decision Today: ICJ Weighs Emergency Measures Amid Allegations of Genocide in Gaza

[WDSmart]

30 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

If you read my link you will see that is total rubbish.

 

Oh, I see now. The information in my links are rubbish, but the information in your links are true.

My bad... 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Oh, I see now. The information in my links are rubbish, but the information in your links are true.

My bad... 

 

  Apology accepted and now lets move on and get back on topic  . 

[WDSmart]

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Jesus was a Jew, right .

Do you know where Jesus was born and when ?

This a temple from 3000 years ago 

 

   Its a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem , from 3000 years ago (and parts of that Temple are still there today)

 

 

...and just where did the Jews come from? Didn't they flee Egypt out of slavery (after their "God" supposedly killed all the first-born sons of Egyptians)? And didn't they eventually end up in Canaan? And was Canaan occupied then by the Canaanites? And didn't then the Jews try to seize their land (again, with the help of their "God") by killing a lot of the Canaanites? And weren't the Canaanites the forefathers of the Palestinians who then became the major occupants of that area when the Jews dispersed into other areas? 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

...and just where did the Jews come from? Didn't they flee Egypt out of slavery (after their "God" supposedly killed all the first-born sons of Egyptians)? And didn't they eventually end up in Canaan? And was Canaan occupied then by the Canaanites? And didn't then the Jews try to seize their land (again, with the help of their "God") by killing a lot of the Canaanites? And weren't the Canaanites the forefathers of the Palestinians who then became the major occupants of that area when the Jews dispersed into other areas? 

 

  We have been asked numerous times to stop giving history lessons . 

So lets comply with that request and get back on topic 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Apology accepted and now lets move on and get back on topic  . 

YES! I agree wholeheartedly. Let's get back on topic.

This is my boiled-down analysis of the ruling:

The ICJ has just ordered the Israelis to cease the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza and only to wage war against Hamas.

How's that?
 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

YES! I agree wholeheartedly. Let's get back on topic.

This is my boiled-down analysis of the ruling:

The ICJ has just ordered the Israelis to cease the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza and only to wage war against Hamas.

How's that?
 

 

   The ICJ ordered the Palestinians to release the hostages immediately and unconditionally .

If Hamas doesn't comply with the ruling, I don't see why Israel should 

[Neeranam]

27 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Well said mate - I wonder if the pro-Hamas side understand the irony of it.

I suspect he was replying to me, God knows why, he knows he's on ignore. 

It was a stupid, racial thing for him to say anyway, implying that all Muslims are terrorists is one of the reasons I want nothing to do with him. 

By saying 'well said' means you are an Islamophobe too. 

[WDSmart]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

The ICJ has just ordered the Israelis to cease the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza and only to wage war against Hamas.

How's that?

 

   The ICJ ordered the Palestinians to release the hostages immediately and unconditionally .

If Hamas doesn't comply with the ruling, I don't see why Israel shoul

Okay, so do we agree that the ICJ ordered;
- the Israelis to cease the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza and only to wage war against Hamas, and;
- the Palestinians to release the hostages immediately.

And there were no conditions put on either order.

Right? 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Okay, so do we agree that the ICJ ordered;
- the Israelis to cease the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza and only to wage war against Hamas, and;
- the Palestinians to release the hostages immediately.

And there were no conditions put on either order.

Right? 

 

  I really do not know , as I haven't read the full ruling . 

A ceasefire wasn't order and Israel  has to report back in 1 month to show that there's no genocide occurring 

[WDSmart]

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  I really do not know , as I haven't read the full ruling . 

A ceasefire wasn't order and Israel  has to report back in 1 month to show that there's no genocide occurring 

I also didn't read the whole thing. I did watch the 30-min+ explanation of the ruling by the ICJ chairwoman, which was broadcast on CNN.

My point is if there were any conditions put on either "order," (quit killing civilians and release all hostages) based on the other, both sides can just keep pointing at each other and demanding they comply first before they will. 

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I also didn't read the whole thing. I did watch the 30-min+ explanation of the ruling by the ICJ chairwoman, which was broadcast on CNN.

My point is if there were any conditions put on either "order," (quit killing civilians and release all hostages) based on the other, both sides can just keep pointing at each other and demanding they comply first before they will. 

 

   Israel hasn't been told to stop killing civilians though , civilians can still be killed, just not all of them .

Killing civilians needs to be limited  

[Amethyst]

Several off-topic posts above have been removed.

 

The topic of the thread here is the ICJ ruling and the impact and implications of it -- not re-arguing thousands of years of history.

 

Let's at least try to stay in the current century...

 

[retarius]

5 hours ago, coolcarer said:

Have we deflected to a history lesson. That has nothing to do with the ICJ ruling. This topic

 

 

Israel has been robbed of any pretence it had to moral authority. The IDF is is no better than Hamas.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

Israel has been robbed of any pretence it had to moral authority. The IDF is is no better than Hamas.

 

  Hamas has forced the IDF to behave in a similar fashion to them , the IDF were left with no other option , either fight Hamas or surrender to them 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Hamas has forced the IDF to behave in a similar fashion to them , the IDF were left with no other option , either fight Hamas or surrender to them 

I agree, but I also believe it works the other way around also... 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Are you forgetting about Hamas? Unless they are dismantled from Gaza then the attacks on Israel will carry on.

 

Are you also forgetting about Palestinian people? 

Only five per cent of Palestinians support a two-state solution; three-quarters want Israel wiped off the map

Thanks, interesting. 

[Nick Carter icp]

Just now, WDSmart said:

I agree, but I also believe it works the other way around also... 

 

  Had Hamas not attacked Israel, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza .

Had Hamas not mass murdered and raped , killed babies and taken hostages on Oct 7 th , Israel wouldn't have gone into Gaza hunting them down 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

 

  We aren't talking about my home .

What do you think should happen to people who murdered and raped and took hostages on Oct 7 th?

Should they be bought to justice or allowed to get away with their crimes and potentially commit more similar crimes ?

 

As far as I am concerned all the people who murdered and raped and took hostages on Oct 7 th should be punished.

And the people who didn't do that should not end up dead as collateral damage. 

[Brickleberry]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Exactly how do the IDF get Hamas then??  Your the 'expert' - tell us exactly how they do it !!

 

Israel did what it has the right to do (10 years too late IMO) they have declared war on Hamas the el;ected leaders of Gaza.  The IDF are trying to minimise civilians casualties - Hamas is tryiong to maximise them - because silly people in the world will rally to their cause.

 

By the way, pray tell us all great one - how was the world supposed to kill the Nazis but not any of the Germans in WW2.  Remember this too - the Germans soldiers in WW2 wore uniforms - the Hamas soldiers dont all wear a 'uniform' - just look at all the scumbags that invaded Israel and randomnly raped, butchered and killed Jews - they were not wearing a uniform. 

 

Maybe the Palestinians in Gaza should be given a certain amount of time to get, and then blow everything up - all of it.  That worked against the Nazis and Japan - so why does Israel not do it again. Be aware I dont agree with that - but if this is not 'resolved' and Hamas or Hezbola (aided by Iran) explode a nuclear device in Israel - I can see Israel doing just that - and I would not blame them.  

 

There is no point talking - you say they are trying to minimize casualties but this is categorically untrue. You bring up the Nazis and Japan, but they have no relevance to this conversation. They are both countries who went to war. Gaza is an occupied territory that has been under siege for 18 years.  No parity at all.

[Nick Carter icp]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

As far as I am concerned all the people who murdered and raped and took hostages on Oct 7 th should be punished.

And the people who didn't do that should not end up dead as collateral damage. 

 

  How would you punish or locate the Hamas terrorists , if they were hiding among the civilian population ?

   In wars , civilians get killed or do you expect Israel to be the only Country ever in the World to engage in war and there being no civilian casualties ?

[Brickleberry]

6 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Had Hamas not attacked Israel, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza .

Had Hamas not mass murdered and raped , killed babies and taken hostages on Oct 7 th , Israel wouldn't have gone into Gaza hunting them down 

Again, the court case is not about Hamas. It is about Israel's behavior in Gaza now, and protecting the innocents.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

I'm only responding to the @OneMoreFarang post quoted above...

Let's say you live in a great big two- or three-story house a total of 10 rooms. You live there mostly with your family and just a few others. One day, someone comes who claims to "own" the house and tells you that they have given it to another family who will be moving in over the next several weeks. As this new family moves in, they slowly force your family out of the rooms they occupied, often by force, and eventually into just two rooms, which are, of course, now very crowded.

That's an analogy of what's happened to the large house called "Palestine" that is now called "Israel." The two single rooms where your family lives now are on different floors, and the occupants are not allowed to freely visit each other. These rooms are called "Gaza" and "The West Bank."

How would you feel, and what would you try to do about it? 

Again, and as always, this is MY OPINION as to what has happened in Palestine over the past hundred years or so.

I understand your point and I know that this is what happens.

But I also know that that is not the whole picture. Israelis have their reasons, and Palestinians have their reasons.

And both can point at the other and claim that the other killed friends and family members.

The situation is very complicated, and that is why there is no easy solution.

 

I think what Israel does in the moment in not "fair" - but then, war is never fair and is not supposed to be fair.

Hamas attack on Israel was a crime. And it's obvious that Israel has the right to defend themselves.

And what Hamas did didn't happen in a vacuum. And, and, and. The list goes on and on and on. That's the big problem which make peace very difficult. 

 

[WDSmart]

3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Had Hamas not attacked Israel, Israel wouldn't have attacked Gaza .

Had Hamas not mass murdered and raped , killed babies and taken hostages on Oct 7 th , Israel wouldn't have gone into Gaza hunting them down 

The Zionists have been attacking, murdering, etc., Palestinians for the past century. (I can't mention anything prior to that, according to @stats.) This conflict didn't start on Oct 7th, although that incident was one of the worst, at least recently.

It's true that if Oct 7th hadn't occurred, the Zionists would not have gone into Gaza to hunt down Hamas and kill plain Palestinian citizens in the process. But it's also true that if the Jews, led by the Zionists, had not, over the past century, taken over most of Palestine and forced the Palestinians into two small separate areas, Hamas would not have done what they did on Oct 7. 

[Brickleberry]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thanks, interesting. 

 

 

The truth is, in July 2023, a few weeks prior to the Oct 7, 70% of Gazans wanted the PA to lead Gaza, they were sick and tired of Hamas, and have not had a chance to elect them out since they won in 2006/7. The start of the conflict was very unpopular. Palestinians did not want this war, and do not want Hamas in control.

 

50% of those polled also want a permanent ceasefire and are willing to accept two states based on the 1967 borders (ceding more land - even though it is illegal to seize land by force since the 1st world war).

 

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah

 

Quote

Moreover, half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”

Quote

While the majority of Gazans (65%) did think it likely that there would be “a large military conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza” this year, a similar percentage (62%) supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel.

 

Quote

In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” 

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

The Zionists have been attacking, murdering, etc., Palestinians for the past century. (I can't mention anything prior to that, according to @stats.) This conflict didn't start on Oct 7th, although that incident was one of the worst, at least recently.

It's true that if Oct 7th hadn't occurred, the Zionists would not have gone into Gaza to hunt down Hamas and kill plain Palestinian citizens in the process. But it's also true that if the Jews, led by the Zionists, had not, over the past century, taken over most of Palestine and forced the Palestinians into two small separate areas, Hamas would not have done what they did on Oct 7. 

 

   Yes, Palestinians do not accept Israels right to exist .

Israel could have done what the USA did and killed all the  locals and wiped out the American Indians ?

   Israelis then could live peacefully like Americans do 

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Yes, Palestinians do not accept Israels right to exist .

Israel could have done what the USA did and killed all the  locals and wiped out the American Indians ?

   Israelis then could live peacefully like Americans do 

Hamas does not. Palestinians do.

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

There is no point talking - you say they are trying to minimize casualties but this is categorically untrue. You bring up the Nazis and Japan, but they have no relevance to this conversation. They are both countries who went to war. Gaza is an occupied territory that has been under siege for 18 years.  No parity at all.

you say they are trying to minimize casualties but this is categorically untrue. 

 

That is just a plain and sick lie.

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

Hamas does not. Palestinians do.

 

  Hamas the the elected leaders of Gaza Palestinians  

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Hamas does not. Palestinians do.

Wrong, it was not just Hamas who attacked Israel on 7th Oct.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

you say they are trying to minimize casualties but this is categorically untrue. 

 

That is just a plain and sick lie.

 

How do you level 85% of the buildings with 200 2,000 bombs and more ammo than was dropped in just about any war in the last 50 years and claim with a straight face that Israel was trying to minimize casualties? This is precisely why SA took it to the ICJ. And why 100 countries voted in the UN for an immediate ceasefire.