As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

Speculation and deductions are what I do after I watch/read news like this. However, news organizations like CNN report figures from various sources.

 

This is where your complete lack of credibility is laid bare; there are no various sources with regard to Palestinian casualties in Gaza. All figures are from the Gaza Health Ministry, released only after approval from the Hamas leadership.

 

It matters not a jot which news outlet the figures appear in, they will all share a common source, Hamas. So, saying CNN report figures from various sources is factually incorrect; because although these sources might well be the UN, Al Jazeera, the BBC, Sky, or the entirely discredited UNRWA, the figures will only have come from Hamas, and no other source.

 

You are either naive and gullible enough not to realise this, or you have been continually posting figures that you know full well to be disingenuous at best, but much more likely to be completely falsified propaganda …….. not difficult for me to guess which  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sirineou]

Quote

As Israel attacks Rafah, US offers only words of caution

and 14 billion dollars in weapons. 

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, sirineou said:

and 14 billion dollars in weapons. 

 

   Isn't that just a proposed amount and hasn't  yet been and could still be vetoed ?

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Isn't that just a proposed amount and hasn't  yet been and could still be vetoed ?

yes,

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Isn't that just a proposed amount and hasn't  yet been and could still be vetoed ?

The US has send billions of aid to Israel every year since 162 I think.

Why do you ask?You think they might not send any this year? 

[metisdead]

A post in which the quoted content had been altered contravening our Community Standards has been removed.

[Captain Monday]

56 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is where your complete lack of credibility is laid bare; there are no various sources with regard to Palestinian casualties in Gaza. All figures are from the Gaza Health Ministry, released only after approval from the Hamas leadership.

 

It matters not a jot which news outlet the figures appear in, they will all share a common source, Hamas. So, saying CNN report figures from various sources is factually incorrect; because although these sources might well be the UN, Al Jazeera, the BBC, Sky, or the entirely discredited UNRWA, the figures will only have come from Hamas, and no other source.

 

You are either naive and gullible enough not to realise this, or you have been continually posting figures that you know full well to be disingenuous at best, but much more likely to be completely falsified propaganda …….. not difficult for me to guess which  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Does the state of Israel contest the casualty  figures released by Hamas?

[Morch]

5 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I think everyone ought to make sure they read in this report that includes my emphasis.

- "...the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) successfully rescued two male Israeli hostages from the city of Rafah in Gaza, amidst heavy Israeli airstrikes targeting the area. The hostages, identified as Fernando Simon Marman, 60, and Louis Har, 70, were found to be in good medical condition after their rescue and were swiftly transported to an Israeli hospital for further evaluation and care."

...and, "Conflicting reports emerged regarding the casualties from the airstrikes, with figures ranging from 37 to 52 Palestinians killed, including children, according to various sources. The disparity underscores the chaotic and volatile situation on the ground, with Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry condemning the Israeli military's actions as indiscriminate and disproportionate."

 

So, the bottom line is two elderly hostages were rescued and were found to be in good health. The cost for that was 40 to 50 (or more) Palestinians killed, most of them probably civilians.

Two apparently well-treated hostages were rescued at the cost of 40 to 50 other people's lives, and many of you on this Topic see this as a reason to celebrate. This is, in essence, a perfect example of your despicable biases.  

 

Who took them hostage? Who placed them among civilians?

[Morch]

4 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I have heard on CNN's TV News that the Palestinian dead could be as many as 60. I have no link for that, but I'm sure those numbers will continue to be made available to us as the day goes by. And anyway, whether it was 10, 20, 40, or 60 makes no difference to the point I am making. That is, many of you on this Topic place no value on the lives of the Palestinians. Sixty dead for two released is okay with you. That, to me, shows your bias and anti-Semitism. Shame on you!

Update: CNN in now reporting "over 100" Palestinians killed." 

 

Hamas doesn't value the life of the Palestinian he rules (ruled?).

[Morch]

2 hours ago, WDSmart said:

What is the matter with you?!! What difference does all this make?

I heard the "diversionary tactic" on CNN this morning when I first heard them report on the incident. I've said over and over and over again that we'll have to wait for probably DAYS before we'll have any numbers on the people killed (and maybe the breakdown by categories).

Here's the bottom line:
- The IDF went into Rafah in Gaza and rescued two hostages;
- While doing that, they killed a number of Palestinians. The figures range from "a dozen" to "over 100." How many of those were civilians vs. Hamas fighters, we don't know.

Okay????? 

 

 

And....?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

No rational person supports terrorism.

 

Rubbish, I already explained that to you clearly. You have common sense. To know what a war crime is we do not have to wait for the results of an international tribunal. And pointless because Israel, with full diplomatic cover of the United States  will never let its officials or military officers be subject to the jusrisdiction, judgements, and punishments of such a proceeding if it were to ever happen anyway. 

Glad to hear that you are not defending Israels actions.  I am positive know that you know two wrongs don't make a right. Might makes right. Do what I say, not what I do.

 

You can repeat your 'no rational person' bit - doesn't address my comment. There are people on this forum supporting Hamas, justifying actions, normalizing the agenda, minimizing or denying what Hamas did or what it's after. Same thing happens out there in the world, on a larger scale - all these people aren't 'rational'? What does that even mean? What does it imply?

 

You can say 'rubbish' as many times as you like as well - but considering the many ignorant comments on here regarding 'war crimes' is testimony enough that public opinion and what 'war crimes' actually are is not the same. Them international laws people go on about? They were written in a way that favors modern, stronger armies. It allows for a whole lot of things, if you look at them details. For example, most of Israel's aerial attacks could probably be legit, when all details are examined. It doesn't necessarily make them moral, right, ok or whatever. It's not the same thing. On the other hand, each and every rocket Hamas launches at Israel, regardless of damage done and casualty caused is a war crime. Them oddities.

 

I'm sure you thought you meant something by your last remarks.

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Does the state of Israel contest the casualty  figures released by Hamas?

 

Hamas does not provide a breakdown of combatants vs. civilians. That's one area of contention.

As for the total figures - traditionally, Israel's estimates are somewhat lower, and post-war UN/Aid Agencies figures are in between.

 

Hamas also does not make it clear if it includes those who were killed on 7-8/10 within Israel borders, after and during the attack. Also, the list seems to incorporate casualties caused by Hamas (and other Palestinian terrorist organization within the Gaza Strip) misfired rockets, explosive devices going off etc.

Edited February 12 by Morch

[Captain Monday]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

You can repeat your 'no rational person' bit - doesn't address my comment. There are people on this forum supporting Hamas, justifying actions, normalizing the agenda, minimizing or denying what Hamas did or what it's after. Same thing happens out there in the world, on a larger scale - all these people aren't 'rational'? What does that even mean? What does it imply?

 

You can say 'rubbish' as many times as you like as well - but considering the many ignorant comments on here regarding 'war crimes' is testimony enough that public opinion and what 'war crimes' actually are is not the same. Them international laws people go on about? They were written in a way that favors modern, stronger armies. It allows for a whole lot of things, if you look at them details. For example, most of Israel's aerial attacks could probably be legit, when all details are examined. It doesn't necessarily make them moral, right, ok or whatever. It's not the same thing. On the other hand, each and every rocket Hamas launches at Israel, regardless of damage done and casualty caused is a war crime. Them oddities.

 

I'm sure you thought you meant something by your last remarks.

I do not speak for anyone on this forum supporting or justifying Hamas. I do not go to a pro-Palestine March, these are lousy with anti-semites. Nor have I ever called for a “cease fire”. I simply ask that in the legitimate self-defense permitted under international law the State of Israel and its forces abide by international law and international humanitarian law to the extent of the treaties and conventions it is legally bound to. 

BTW what  “last remarks”  are you referencing ? 

Edited February 12 by Captain Monday

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

What “last remarks”  are you referencing ?

The ones that are incomprehensible

[Captain Monday]

31 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The ones that are incomprehensible

Understood. Almost everyone of my posts on every subject gets a confused emoji from the dullards.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Understood. Almost everyone of my posts on every subject gets a confused emoji from the dullards.

Well now you know the reason

[Captain Monday]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well now you know the reason

And do you also, esteemed colleague? 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Captain Monday said:

And do you also, esteemed colleague? 

Do you have something to add on the topic or would you like to pursue the subject of your incomprehensible last remarks that you asked about?

[Captain Monday]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Do you have something to add on the topic or would you like to pursue the subject of your incomprehensible last remarks that you asked about?

Not right now. Morch asked that I meant something with my “last comments” earlier  Tonite one of my comments was apparently deleted. So I have not the foggiest idea of what HE was talking about. 

Edited February 12 by Captain Monday

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Hold on; you’ve asked me a question signified by a question mark, and then proceeded to answer it yourself.

 

If you just talk to yourself, it’s no surprise that you make little sense; still at least you always get the answer you want, which must make you feel all warm and righteous.

 

OK. So ignore that part of my response, and simply answer my question.

 

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

[Neeranam]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

OK. So ignore that part of my response, and simply answer my question.

 

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

Good question.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

The US has send billions of aid to Israel every year since 162 I think.

Why do you ask?You think they might not send any this year? 

 

   The USA hasn't send billions of aid every year , I don't think that the USA sends any money .

The USA gives Israel credit to buy USA made arms/weapons and doesn't require the money to be repaid .

   The "aid" money actually aids the USA arms manufacturers , as all the money goes to them  

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

News just breaking that the IDF have rescued 2 hostages from Rafah.

Apparently in "good health", contrary to claims the prisoners were being treated badly. Certainly in better health than the Gazans killed the same day by israeli delivered bombs, likely provided by America.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/12/middleeast/israel-hostages-rescued-gaza-rafah-intl-hnk/index.html

The hostages, 60-year-old Fernando Simon Marman and 70-year-old Louis Har, had spent 128 days in captivity. Both men are in relatively good condition and have since reunited with their families.

Edited February 12 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is where your complete lack of credibility is laid bare; there are no various sources with regard to Palestinian casualties in Gaza. All figures are from the Gaza Health Ministry, released only after approval from the Hamas leadership.

 

It matters not a jot which news outlet the figures appear in, they will all share a common source, Hamas. So, saying CNN report figures from various sources is factually incorrect; because although these sources might well be the UN, Al Jazeera, the BBC, Sky, or the entirely discredited UNRWA, the figures will only have come from Hamas, and no other source.

 

You are either naive and gullible enough not to realise this, or you have been continually posting figures that you know full well to be disingenuous at best, but much more likely to be completely falsified propaganda …….. not difficult for me to guess which  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I don't know what your point is. Are you saying that no Gazans have been killed, or it's a few thousand less than claimed? Does it matter if it's one thousand or 12 thousand children got blown to bits- any child blown to bits is a child too many. Is your point that it's OK for israel to commit crimes against humanity as long as it's less women and children getting blown up than Hamas claims?

Next I expect you to be claiming that all those building we see blown up are actually still standing and it's all just AI propaganda, while the Gazans are having picnics on the beach.

[thaibeachlovers]

A small victory for sanity in Holland.

 

https://apnews.com/article/netherlands-court-f35-israel-b33608b054a33fbacc518395b53b74e8

Dutch appeals court orders Netherlands to stop exports of F-35 parts to Israel, citing war in Gaza

“It is undeniable that there is a clear risk that the exported F-35 parts are used in serious violations of international humanitarian law,” Judge Bas Boele said in reading out the ruling, eliciting cheers from several people in the courtroom.

 

The exports must cease within seven days.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

A small victory for sanity in Holland.

 

https://apnews.com/article/netherlands-court-f35-israel-b33608b054a33fbacc518395b53b74e8

Dutch appeals court orders Netherlands to stop exports of F-35 parts to Israel, citing war in Gaza

“It is undeniable that there is a clear risk that the exported F-35 parts are used in serious violations of international humanitarian law,” Judge Bas Boele said in reading out the ruling, eliciting cheers from several people in the courtroom.

 

The exports must cease within seven days.

 

   Rather meaningless because the F-35 parts are just stored in Netherlands and they are made in the USA , Israel can just import the parts from other Countries

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   The USA hasn't send billions of aid every year , I don't think that the USA sends any money .

The USA gives Israel credit to buy USA made arms/weapons and doesn't require the money to be repaid .

   The "aid" money actually aids the USA arms manufacturers , as all the money goes to them  

Nonsensical semantics apologists use. 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Nonsensical semantics apologists use. 

 

 

   There is a huge difference between the USA sending Israel Billions in cash to spend as it pleases and the USA giving Israel free  military  hardware which benefits the USA war machine .

   So, you were wrong about the USA sending Billions to Israel and you were also wrong about th USA sending Israel 14 Billion this year .

  I was just correcting your mistakes rather than being an apologist  

Edited February 12 by Nick Carter icp

[Bkk Brian]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

And where do you think Israel gets its figures from?

 

They get them from the IDF itself. which IMHO is one of the least trustworthy sources in the conflict.

Notable that you trust Hamas terrorists more than the IDF, why is that?

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

There is a huge difference between the USA sending Israel Billions in cash to spend as it pleases and the USA giving Israel free  military  hardware which benefits the USA war machine

As I said "semantics" and not a big difference.

Sending billions in military aid, frees other funds to spend as one feels. 

It is called enabling. 

For instance I will not give you money to buy drugs, but I will pay for your rent so that , not having to spend money for rent, now you have money to buy drugs.