Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

And the very start of this conflict was... the illegal forcible removal of 750,000 Palestinians from their homes and lands.

Suicide bombings rampant - where were these suicide bombings... in the OCCUPIED TERRITORIES!

Wars started by Arabs? Four of the six wars that have been fought in this land were started by Israel, including the 1967 war that led to the occupation of Palestinian territory.

Israel justifies holding on to land.... stop right there. This is illegal according to international law. You can debate with facts, not feelings.

This is the very definition of stealing. I kick you out of your home and raze it to the ground. I then build my own home. Stealing.

Not normal throughout wars when you lose. Taking land by force has been illegal since before Israel was formed. Again, you should argue with facts - not feelings.

If the Arabs had won, they would have reclaimed the land that was stolen from them by European settler colonials.

750,000? What biased source did you get that number from? 

I find your attitude pathetic.

You act like the Arabs there are Canadians.

Refer to Grand Mufti of Jerusalem -- Hitler history.

 

[Brickleberry]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're hilarious!

Did you even get what that means?!?

The first choice River to the Sea the most support by far.

Add one state choice which everyone knows means the end of Israel and that's a strong consensus for the end of Israel. So what do you think those lovely people intend to do with the Jews there when Israel is gone?

It has the most support, but it is clearly less than half. This is a people who have been trodden on for decades and had their homes taken away from them. If I took your home away from you, wouldn't you want it back?

[Brickleberry]

Just now, Jingthing said:

750,000? What biased source did you get that number from? 

I find your attitude pathetic.

You act like the Arabs there are Canadians.

Refer to Grand Mufti of Jerusalem -- Hitler history.

 

 

Are you denying history? Do you claim, like the Israelis, that the Palestinians never existed? 

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67

 

Quote

 

The violent birth of Israel led to a major displacement of the Arab population, who either were driven out by Zionist military forces before May 15, 1948, or by the Israeli army after that date or fled for fear of violence by these forces. Many wealthy merchants and leading urban notables from Jaffa, Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Jerusalem fled to Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan, while the middle class tended to move to all-Arab towns such as Nablus and Nazareth. The majority of fellahin ended up in refugee camps. More than 400 Arab villages disappeared, and Arab life in the coastal cities (especially Jaffa and Haifa) virtually disintegrated. The centre of Palestinian life shifted to the Arab towns of the hilly eastern portion of the region—which was immediately west of the Jordan River and came to be called the West Bank.

Like everything else in the Arab-Israeli conflict, population figures are hotly disputed. Nearly 1,400,000 Arabs lived in Palestine when the war broke out. Estimates of the number of Arabs displaced from their original homes, villages, and neighbourhoods during the period from December 1947 to January 1949 range from about 520,000 to about 1,000,000; there is general consensus, however, that the actual number was more than 600,000 and likely exceeded 700,000. 

 

 

[Brickleberry]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

750,000? What biased source did you get that number from? 

I find your attitude pathetic.

You act like the Arabs there are Canadians.

Refer to Grand Mufti of Jerusalem -- Hitler history.

 

 

Educate yourself. Palestinians fought with the British against the Nazis

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/The-Arab-Revolt

Quote

The Arabs of Palestine remained largely quiescent throughout the war. Amīn al-Ḥusaynī had fled—by way of Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Italy—to Germany, whence he broadcast appeals to his fellow Arabs to ally with the Axis powers against Britain and Zionism. Yet the mufti failed to rally Palestinian Arabs to the Axis cause. Although some supported Germany, the majority supported the Allies, and approximately 23,000 Arabs enlisted in the British forces (especially in the Arab Legion). Increases in agricultural prices benefited the Arab peasants, who began to pay accumulated debts.

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Are you denying history? Do you claim, like the Israelis, that the Palestinians never existed? 

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67

 

 

As your source indicates there never was a Palestinian state. The Arabs were Arabs. There wasn't a distinction between Arabs living in Jordan and Arabs living in Jaffa. Before the partition there were Arabs and Jews in the land that is now the sovereign nation state of Israel. Palestinians as an identity group was created by Yasser Arafat after the partition. There was the British Mandate of Palestine in which Jews were as "Palestinian" and everyone else.

[Brickleberry]

Just now, Jingthing said:

As your source indicates there never was a Palestinian state. The Arabs were Arabs. There wasn't a distinction between Arabs living in Jordan and Arabs living in Jaffa. Before the partition there were Arabs and Jews in the land that is now the sovereign nation state of Israel. Palestinians as an identity group was created by Yasser Arafat after the partition. There was the British Mandate of Palestine in which Jews were as "Palestinian" and everyone else.

 

Educate yourself. Israel didn't exist until 75 years ago, does this mean it is a made up thing that should be cast away? I think you would disagree.

 

Palestinian is an identity that has been used for over 200 years: https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67

Quote

Henceforth the term Palestinian will be used when referring to the Arabs of the former mandated Palestine, excluding Israel. Although the Arabs of Palestine had been creating and developing a Palestinian identity for about 200 years, the idea that Palestinians form a distinct people is relatively recent. The Arabs living in Palestine had never had a separate state. Until the establishment of Israel, the term Palestinian was used by Jews and foreigners to describe the inhabitants of Palestine and had only begun to be used by the Arabs themselves at the turn of the 20th century. With the Arab world in a period of renaissance popularizing notions of Arab unity and nationalism amid the decline of the Ottoman Empire, most saw themselves as part of the larger Arab or Muslim community. The Arabs of Palestine began widely using the term Palestinian starting in the pre-World War I period to indicate the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people. But after 1948—and even more so after 1967—for Palestinians themselves the term came to signify not only a place of origin but, more importantly, a sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian state.

 

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Not true. Educate yourself. https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/half-palestinians-still-want-all-palestine-most-would-compromise-less

 

This is 4 years old....lol read the OP for latest figures

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Educate yourself. Israel didn't exist until 75 years ago, does this mean it is a made up thing that should be cast away? I think you would disagree.

 

Palestinian is an identity that has been used for over 200 years: https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/Palestine-and-the-Palestinians-1948-67

 

Under the mandate Jews were Palestinians too. 

[retarius]

I don't think the US are serious with their two state talk. They are simply waiting for Israel to eradicate the Palestinians entirely or push them into Egypt and steal the land. The US are sending arms to ensure it happens, you wouldn't send arms if you wanted a two state solutions if the arms were being used to eradicate the potential population of one of the states, now, would you? Same old duplicitous, lying US. 

[retarius]

12 hours ago, Social Media said:

Some 88 percent of all Jewish Israelis think the number of Palestinians killed or wounded in Gaza is justified by the war.

 

'War' cannot be used as a justification for a large number of casualties. Besides this is totally hateful and symptomatic of the low moral quality of the folk who support this vile war.

[Brickleberry]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Under the mandate Jews were Palestinians too. 

No, they were not.

 

The 6% of the indigenous Jewish population were. The 94% of indigenous Palestinians were not. 

 

The settler colonials changed everything. This is the problem.

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, retarius said:

'War' cannot be used as a justification for a large number of casualties. Besides this is totally hateful and symptomatic of the low moral quality of the folk who support this vile war.

 

Is it a war when one group has handmade rockets, the fuel used to fire them is compressed sugar - despite firing thousands of them, they fail to cause any actual harm or death. The other side has nuclear weapons.

[retarius]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Is it a war when one group has handmade rockets, the fuel used to fire them is compressed sugar - despite firing thousands of them, they fail to cause any actual harm or death. The other side has nuclear weapons.

Exactly bullying on a national level. Sickening. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Is it a war when one group has handmade rockets, the fuel used to fire them is compressed sugar - despite firing thousands of them, they fail to cause any actual harm or death. The other side has nuclear weapons.

Tell that to the families of the Israeli war dead, civilians and soldiers.

I dare you!

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

No, they were not.

 

The 6% of the indigenous Jewish population were. The 94% of indigenous Palestinians were not. 

 

The settler colonials changed everything. This is the problem.

The Arabs were colonialists before.

The problem is people that don't accept the right of Israel to exist and defend itself. 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Is it a war when one group has handmade rockets, the fuel used to fire them is compressed sugar - despite firing thousands of them, they fail to cause any actual harm or death. The other side has nuclear weapons.

What about all the rockets that misfire and land back in Gaza? Do you think Israel's Iron Dome has anything to do with them not causing too many casualties? 

 

Why do you feel the need to mention Israel's nuclear weapons?

[Brickleberry]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Tell that to the families of the Israeli war dead, civilians and soldiers.

I dare you!

243 Israeli soldiers dead in the war

 

29,000 Palestinians. Tell the Palestinians its a fair fight. I dare you

 

[Brickleberry]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The Arabs were colonialists before.

The problem is people that don't accept the right of Israel to exist and defend itself. 

No, they have been living in the area for thousands of years.

The problem is people don't accept that Palestinians are legally allowed to resist their occupiers - it is literally written down in law, and Israel has signed up to follow these laws (Geneva conventions). 

[Brickleberry]

26 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What about all the rockets that misfire and land back in Gaza? Do you think Israel's Iron Dome has anything to do with them not causing too many casualties? 

 

Why do you feel the need to mention Israel's nuclear weapons?

Because it is ridiculous! People talk like its a war, but it isn't.

 

It is a highly sophisticated army with the military might and financial backing of America against an oppressed population that has been living in an open air prison, with no weapons manufacturing capability, no army, no air force, no bombs, nothing.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

Because it is ridiculous! People talk like its a war, but it isn't.

 

It is a highly sophisticated army with the military might and financial backing of America against an oppressed population that has been living in an open air prison, with no weapons manufacturing capability, no army, no air force, no bombs, nothing.

Eh, what's that got to do with my response to your post? 

[Bkk Brian]

Stephen Harper: Israel's war is just, Hamas must surrender or be eliminated
It is foolish to think a two-state solution will emerge while so many Palestinians still reject the existence of a Jewish state.

From that perspective, Israel’s war objective — the elimination of Gaza’s Hamas regime — is essential. Leaving the job unfinished, with Hamas’s existence tolerated and its actions contained, has been tried, and it has failed. The Israeli people cannot be reasonably asked to return to the pre-war status quo. That is the position our own nations took toward the attacks launched by Nazi Germany against us. Israel has as absolute a right to absolute security now as we did then.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/stephen-harper-israels-war-is-just-hamas-must-surrender-or-be-eliminated

[proton]

There already are 3 Palestinian states- Jordan, Gaza and Israel. Muslims just want ALL of the land for themselves.

[Brickleberry]

7 minutes ago, proton said:

There already are 3 Palestinian states- Jordan, Gaza and Israel. Muslims just want ALL of the land for themselves.

 

Huh? This isn't a religious conflict.

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

243 Israeli soldiers dead in the war

 

29,000 Palestinians. Tell the Palestinians its a fair fight. I dare you

 

Intentionally distorted numbers. Sleazy.

If Hamas didn't want a war they could have passed on the October 7 massacre.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Huh? This isn't a religious conflict.

It's an aspect .

[Brickleberry]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Intentionally distorted numbers. Sleazy.

If Hamas didn't want a war they could have passed on the October 7 massacre.

 

"If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” ― Malcom X

 

Hamas are resistance fighters, fighting their occupier and oppressors.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

Because it is ridiculous! People talk like its a war, but it isn't.

 

It is a highly sophisticated army with the military might and financial backing of America against an oppressed population that has been living in an open air prison, with no weapons manufacturing capability, no army, no air force, no bombs, nothing.

Yeah and the Vietnam War wasn't a war either.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Brickleberry said:

 

"If you aren’t careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” ― Malcom X

 

Hamas are resistance fighters, fighting their occupier and oppressors.

Simple minded poppycock.

[Brickleberry]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's an aspect .

 

This is a story of intrigue among rival empires; of misguided strategies; and of how conflicting promises to Palestine and Israel created a legacy of bloodshed which determined the fate of the Middle East.

 

Avi Shlaim, Professor of International Relations at Oxford University, calls it 'one of the best historical documentaries on the Middle East I have ever seen'.

 

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

No, they have been living in the area for thousands of years.

The problem is people don't accept that Palestinians are legally allowed to resist their occupiers - it is literally written down in law, and Israel has signed up to follow these laws (Geneva conventions). 

No they haven't and Jews indigenous people of Israel have more ancient and credible roots there.