bank was no longer accepting new accts from AMERICANS,

[khunbillmex]

 

In preparation for Direct Deposit of US Veterans benifits e went to our bank here in khon kaen where we have 4 accts to open a new one for the DD only to find that the bank was no longer accepting new accts from     AMERICANS, **  Have you heard  of this from other Vets here in Thailand. The bank officer was unsure if this was an all Thai banks policy, said that she heard that there were some banks in Bangkok still taking new accts.  Also I assume the DD can't go into a Joint acct for obvious reasons. How much else can go wrong? I have certainly had a year of it.

We'll be checking with other banks but it doesn't seem hopeful,

we didn't aask whenthis ce  in effectbut it seemed the officer was quite familiar with the policy

this was at TTB bank

[Tropicalevo]

Sorry, I cannot answer the direct question, but some/most(?) banks now have a limit on the number of accounts that a foreigner can have.

[Crossy]

The problem is FATCA and the associated paperwork, many banks just can't be bothered.

 

I'm with the Purple Bank and, despite handing over a UK passport, still have to fill out a FATCA form every time I want to change anything "just to be safe".

 

Unfortunately, FATCA and its brethren seem to be infecting other country's banking systems too

[beautifulthailand99]

I had to look that up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance_Act

 

Crikey  !

 

Europe: The costs of implementation in Europe are shown (below) with available documentation to be greater than U.S. revenue estimates in only three of its countries. Implementation in UK, Germany, and Sweden alone will cost more than US$10 billion.

    United Kingdom: The United Kingdom government has estimated that the cost to British businesses will be £1.1 billion to £2 billion for the first five years (approximately two thirds of the estimate total additional global tax revenue expected), in order to locate approximately 177,185 U.S. citizens.[68][69] The cost there is then approximately £6,000 to £11,000 per resident US citizen or £17 to £31 per capita. HMRC estimates its own one-off IT and staff project costs at approximately £5m, with ongoing annual costs of £1.4m from 2016.[68]

Edited March 6 by beautifulthailand99

[digbeth]

Thai persons also gets a grilling over FATCA as well 
Out of the boondocks, the banks might know what to do if someone tick the "Yes, I'm an American" , box on the application

[ChipButty]

It's been like that for years down in Phuket, 

[eisfeld]

The US government through their strong power over international banking networks has put in the past decade a lot of burdens on foreign banks if they want to deal with USD. Crossy mentioned one of these measures called FATCA. Thai banks don't make any meaningful revenue from personal accounts owned by americans compared to other nationalities but they have to spend significant effort to be on the right side of the US government.

 

Every person that applies for an account has to fill in a form explaining that he is in no way a US person. That means no US phone number, no US address, no US citizenship and so on. The logical result is that banks will more and more not want to work with US citizens. I can understand their sentiment. If things continue the way they have in recent years then on-US banks might even think about avoiding touching any USD even. It's too early for that because the US Dollar is still the common currency when it comes to international transactions but the castle is starting to shake.

Edited March 6 by eisfeld

[lopburi3]

Would it be easier to DD to a US account (or Wise) and transfer here as needed?  Many of us have been doing that for decades.  If you do not have a US account suspect USAA will open with Thai address.  FYI never had an issue when using direct deposit OPM to a US joint account but suspect you are right that an overseas account may have to be your name.  You might want to try other banks and keep trying as opening any account has been hit or miss for years now.

[Foxx]

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

Exactly, and when they say oh, in that case, can I see your passport please, you will do what exactly!

[PJ71]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

I'm with the Purple Bank

Just closed my account with them after 18 years, once the stopped their website i'd had enough!

[Foxx]

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Exactly, and when they say oh, in that case, can I see your passport please, you will do what exactly!

 

Doh! Show the passport of another country.  It's hardly rocket science to acquire a new passport.

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Doh! Show the passport of another country.  It's hardly rocket science to acquire a new passport.

Really? You make it sounds so easy, how many have you got?

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Would it be easier to DD to a US account (or Wise) and transfer here as needed?  Many of us have been doing that for decades.  If you do not have a US account suspect USAA will open with Thai address.  FYI never had an issue when using direct deposit OPM to a US joint account but suspect you are right that an overseas account may have to be your name.  You might want to try other banks and keep trying as opening any account has been hit or miss for years now.

 

Navy Federal.  Can open an account from Thailand, use Thai address, have cards shipped to your local address, offers no balance transfer fee 0%-12 months credit cards.  Currently has 5% APR CD's.

 

https://www.navyfederal.org/

 

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

You give up your social security if you do that, don't you? All that money paid in your whole life gets forfeited??

Edited March 6 by JimTripper

[JensenZ]

Visa agents in Pattaya will get you a Bangkok Bank account without problems. Everything is easier in Pattaya.

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

You give up your social security if you do that, don't you? All that money paid in your whole life gets forfeited??

Don't need to be a citizen of USA to collect Soc Sec as long as you paid into it.  Not sure how renouncing that citizenship would affect it...  there's always google for the answer.

 

I'll google it ... Answer 

[ericthai]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

I would think he would loose his benefits from the USA if he did that, such as SS, Healthcare for being a vet etc.

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The US government through their strong power over international banking networks has put in the past decade a lot of burdens on foreign banks if they want to deal with USD. Crossy mentioned one of these measures called FATCA. Thai banks don't make any meaningful revenue from personal accounts owned by americans compared to other nationalities but they have to spend significant effort to be on the right side of the US government.

 

Every person that applies for an account has to fill in a form explaining that he is in no way a US person. That means no US phone number, no US address, no US citizenship and so on. The logical result is that banks will more and more not want to work with US citizens. I can understand their sentiment. If things continue the way they have in recent years then on-US banks might even think about avoiding touching any USD even. It's too early for that because the US Dollar is still the common currency when it comes to international transactions but the castle is starting to shake.

Not true exactly. I am an American and had to fill out the FATCA paperwork and it was readily accepted. This requirement has been in place for years. Im my opinion the real current issue at the countries is 2 fold. The crack down on mule accounts and accounts set up for foreigners that are not on proper permission to stay visa categories and the 2nd is the tax interpretation change that is started this year as it impacts all partnered countries that Thailand has aligned with but does not yet have any clarity of exactly what is required and what to do to put it in place. As part of that agreement the banks must trade all foreign account data with participating countries.

[Dan O]

3 minutes ago, ericthai said:

I would think he would loose his benefits from the USA if he did that, such as SS, Healthcare for being a vet etc.

Yes you not only lose all benefits but if you have any financial investment holdings in the USA you must sell them and pay tax on the value. 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, khunbillmex said:

Also I assume the DD can't go into a Joint acct for obvious reasons.

 

Not sure about this. You won't lose your payment by trying, merely delay it at worst. Had one relevant testimonial above.

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Dan O said:

Yes you not only lose all benefits but if you have any financial investment holdings in the USA you must sell them and pay tax on the value. 

 

I don't believe this is correct.  Foreigners can purchase property in the USA, open bank accounts, run businesses.  Unclear why giving up citizenship would require selling investments.  Just have to be current on taxes.

 

https://nomadcapitalist.com/expat/myths-giving-up-american-citizenship/

Edited March 6 by NoDisplayName

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, JimTripper said:

You give up your social security if you do that, don't you? All that money paid in your whole life gets forfeited??

No.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Not true exactly. I am an American and had to fill out the FATCA paperwork and it was readily accepted. This requirement has been in place for years. Im my opinion the real current issue at the countries is 2 fold. The crack down on mule accounts and accounts set up for foreigners that are not on proper permission to stay visa categories and the 2nd is the tax interpretation change that is started this year as it impacts all partnered countries that Thailand has aligned with but does not yet have any clarity of exactly what is required and what to do to put it in place. As part of that agreement the banks must trade all foreign account data with participating countries.

 

Which part isn't true? I didn't say they all refuse americans. Many still accept americans but the times are changing as they say. Banks only get trouble dealing with the US and sometimes severely so while at the same time getting no revenue from it. Some are starting to refuse to do business with americans and the trend is clear. I don't think many americans were opening mule accounts in Thailand btw. That's usually poor locals or from neighbouring countries. That they refuse americans also has nothing to do with taxation changes. The bank couldn't care less if you as an individual have to pay taxes or not and it's also not specific to americans.

 

Regarding the information sharing that's also something not american. The biggest agreement in place here is the CRS - Common Reporting System. Thailand didn't sign it but is taking part in a global tax transparency effort.

 

But the only country that is actively putting serious pressure on banks all around the world is the US threatening to cut them off for banking networks or heavy fines.

 

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Yes you not only lose all benefits but if you have any financial investment holdings in the USA you must sell them and pay tax on the value. 

 

Can you clarify? I'm not a US citizen and not familiar with what happens when you renounce that citizenship but foreigners can have financial investments in the USA just fine.

[Thailand J]

Your SS benefits will continue after you've renounced US citizenship.

You don't have to sell US stocks, properties or any US investments. You may have to pay tax on a " pretend sales" of your US properties. See IRS form 8854.

You can only renounce US citizenship outside of US by showing a valid passport or citizenship of another country.

 

Edited March 7 by Thailand J

[Dan O]

8 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I don't believe this is correct.  Foreigners can purchase property in the USA, open bank accounts, run businesses.  Unclear why giving up citizenship would require selling investments.  Just have to be current on taxes.

 

https://nomadcapitalist.com/ Iexpat/myths-giving-up-american-citizenship/

When you renounce your citizenship you forfit your US benefits and for tax purposes and must pay taxes on market value of financial investments. it doesn't mean you can't buy property or own financial investments but by renouncing citizenship you can not benefit tax wise from that action.

[Dan O]

7 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

Which part isn't true? I didn't say they all refuse americans. Many still accept americans but the times are changing as they say. Banks only get trouble dealing with the US and sometimes severely so while at the same time getting no revenue from it. Some are starting to refuse to do business with americans and the trend is clear. I don't think many americans were opening mule accounts in Thailand btw. That's usually poor locals or from neighbouring countries. That they refuse americans also has nothing to do with taxation changes. The bank couldn't care less if you as an individual have to pay taxes or not and it's also not specific to americans.

 

Regarding the information sharing that's also something not american. The biggest agreement in place here is the CRS - Common Reporting System. Thailand didn't sign it but is taking part in a global tax transparency effort.

 

But the only country that is actively putting serious pressure on banks all around the world is the US threatening to cut them off for banking networks or heavy fines.

 

 

Can you clarify? I'm not a US citizen and not familiar with what happens when you renounce that citizenship but foreigners can have financial investments in the USA just fine.

If not done properly you

can lose benefits. You must pay tax on market value of financial investments at the time. You can continue to buy and own but lose all tax benefits afforded a citizen. You lose support of the Dual Tax Agreements with other countries. 

 

Banks don't get trouble from the US banking system but they just have to file and account for US investment to the IRS like several other countries. They opened the can of worms by deciding to tax all income with properly writing the controlling regs on how to do it. Also by participating  in CRS for transparency they now have to do tge same as filing with the USA because they plan on sharing unilaterally financial information but haven't issued guidance on how that works. 

 

You statement about Banks not wanting  to work with Americans is not completely accurate as the crackdown is for all nationalities due to the issues outlined above and the financial crackdown on mule accounts and grey market business and issuing accounts to all foreigners that are not on long term visa categories as the bank regs call for .

 

[EVENKEEL]

14 hours ago, Foxx said:

The simple answer is to renounce your US citizenship.  That way your worldwide income will no longer be taxable by the US and you won't have this sort of additional compliance issues.

That's sooo smart, thank you.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

13 minutes ago, Dan O said:

When you renounce your citizenship you forfit your US benefits and for tax purposes and must pay taxes on market value of financial investments. it doesn't mean you can't buy property or own financial investments but by renouncing citizenship you can not benefit tax wise from that action.

 

In order for the mark-to-market rule to apply, one has to be a "covered expatriate".

 

A covered expatriate is one who has an average income tax obligation over the previous five years of over $190,000 per year or over $2 million in assets or fails to certify that they have complied with US tax laws for the past five years.

 

Failing to meet these tests, no mark-to-market or "expatriation tax" would apply.

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Crossy said:

The problem is FATCA and the associated paperwork, many banks just can't be bothered.

 

I'm with the Purple Bank and, despite handing over a UK passport, still have to fill out a FATCA form every time I want to change anything "just to be safe".

 

Unfortunately, FATCA and its brethren seem to be infecting other country's banking systems too

I can remember this all blew up about 20 years ago when many banks worldwide, even the Swiss, stopped taking US customers due to the paperwork hassle.

Not heard much complaining recently and had assumed modern day techniques had eased the situation.