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Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

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3 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Do I really need to tell you what a hostage is ?

Its a person being held by a group/another person , held captive and being released on the condition that the captors receive something in return .

   Demands being made for a hostages release

Don't bother. I do not need re-education forwarded by you. Follow your own MSM narrative feeds and perception formed. 😄

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    The following is a list of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel. As of 2023, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC).  

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    Founded in 1987, Hamas opposed the secular approach of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, rejected attempts to cede any part of Palestine, and embraced th

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1 minute ago, Paul Catton said:

Don't bother. I do not need re-education forwarded by you. Follow your own MSM narrative feeds and perception formed. 😄

 

  You are quite free to make up the meanings of words if you want .

A hostage can be anything and anyone  you want it to be .

   You can join Roger in speaking non sense

IDF: Some 100 gunmen killed, over 100 terror sites destroyed during Shejaiya op

IDF troops operating in the Gaza Strip, in an image released on July 5, 2024. (Israel Defense Forces)

Some 100 gunmen have been killed and more than 100 sites belonging to terror groups have been destroyed amid the IDF’s ongoing week-long operation in Gaza City’s Shejaiya, the military says.

Over the past day, the IDF says troops killed dozens of gunmen in clashes, tank shelling, and by calling in airstrikes to Shejaiya.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-some-100-gunmen-killed-over-100-terror-sites-destroyed-during-shejaiya-op/

The ministry, which condemned the strike as an “odious massacre”, said another 50 injured were taken to hospital from Al-Jawni school at Nuseirat in central Gaza.

 

The Israeli military made no immediate comment when approached by AFP.

 

The Hamas-run government’s press office said there were 7,000 people sheltering at the school.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/06/israeli-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-16-say-palestinian-officials

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The ministry, which condemned the strike as an “odious massacre”, said another 50 injured were taken to hospital from Al-Jawni school at Nuseirat in central Gaza.

 

The Israeli military made no immediate comment when approached by AFP.

 

The Hamas-run government’s press office said there were 7,000 people sheltering at the school.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/06/israeli-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-16-say-palestinian-officials

Why Do Hamas continue using schools for their command centers?

 

IDF says it struck Hamas operatives who used UN-run Gaza school as command center

The IDF confirms carrying out an airstrike against a United Nations-run school in the central Gaza Strip earlier today, saying the facility was used by Hamas operatives as a command center.

Hamas health authorities have claimed 16 people were killed in the strike and some 50 were wounded.

Before carrying out the strike against UNRWA’s al-Jaouni school in Nuseirat, the IDF says it carried out “many steps” to mitigate harm to civilians, including using aerial surveillance and other intelligence.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-struck-hamas-operatives-who-used-un-run-gaza-school-as-command-center/

15 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why Do Hamas continue using schools for their command centers?

 

IDF says it struck Hamas operatives who used UN-run Gaza school as command center

The IDF confirms carrying out an airstrike against a United Nations-run school in the central Gaza Strip earlier today, saying the facility was used by Hamas operatives as a command center.

Hamas health authorities have claimed 16 people were killed in the strike and some 50 were wounded.

Before carrying out the strike against UNRWA’s al-Jaouni school in Nuseirat, the IDF says it carried out “many steps” to mitigate harm to civilians, including using aerial surveillance and other intelligence.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-struck-hamas-operatives-who-used-un-run-gaza-school-as-command-center/

So much winning!...on the other hand...

"But three months after Mr. Netanyahu declared that “total victory is within reach,” the military acknowledges that the Rafah siege has eliminated only one-third of Hamas’s brigade. Hamas’s leadership remains intact. And roughly 120 hostages are believed to remain somewhere in Gaza, although about a third are thought to be dead."

https://archive.ph/c14L7

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

So much winning!...on the other hand...

"But three months after Mr. Netanyahu declared that “total victory is within reach,” the military acknowledges that the Rafah siege has eliminated only one-third of Hamas’s brigade. Hamas’s leadership remains intact. And roughly 120 hostages are believed to remain somewhere in Gaza, although about a third are thought to be dead."

https://archive.ph/c14L7

What a bizarre reply. If you read the post I was responding to you'd know I was filling in a huge chunk of missing and up to date information on why the IDF made the decision to strike the school.

 

Because the cowardly terrorists had set up a command center in there. The post I replied to lacked that import peace of info.  Not sure what your "So much winning!" and Rafah reference is but its nothing to do with this particular incident in the middle of Gaza, Nuseirat.

Keeping fingers crossed for this but expectations low unfortunately

 

Israel and Hamas are expected to resume mediated negotiations over the hostages’ release after the Palestinian terrorist group dropped its demand for an a priori commitment to end the Gaza War, according to reporting on July 6. Israeli negotiators will restart talks with Qatari and Egyptian mediators, Jerusalem said, after Doha reassured senior envoys of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about the new Hamas position.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/07/06/hamas-drops-key-demand-for-hostage-talks/

 

Israeli officials said that the main sticking point in ceasefire negotiations is Article 14, which states that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations end in an agreement and that a ceasefire is held as negotiations continue. (3/6)

Hamas seeks to remove the phrase “make every effort,” leaving only “ensure.” (4/6)

https://x.com/criticalthreats/status/1809680089308930480

 

Report: Shin Bet chief to head up negotiating team departing for Cairo tomorrow

Mossad chief David Barnea was in Qatar last week and is slated to return again this week, as negotiations on a potential deal have been restarted.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-shin-bet-chief-to-head-up-negotiating-team-departing-for-cairo-tomorrow/

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What a bizarre reply. If you read the post I was responding to you'd know I was filling in a huge chunk of missing and up to date information on why the IDF made the decision to strike the school.

 

Because the cowardly terrorists had set up a command center in there. The post I replied to lacked that import peace of info.  Not sure what your "So much winning!" and Rafah reference is but its nothing to do with this particular incident in the middle of Gaza, Nuseirat.

My mistake. My original post got taken down because the link was protected by a pay wall. So when I reposted with an accessible link I assumed without reading that the post I quoted, which was your latest was the same as before when a previous post of yours was the latest.. Here is the post I intended to comment on in which you quoted another claim from the IDF about progress in the war based on body count. 

image.png.4889909385c7302a94688c86b5926fca.png

But as the post I quoted from the NY Times shows, Israeli generals believe that they have only destroyed 1/3 of the Hamas battalions based in Rafah. And yet they are winding down operations there. So much for the goal of the total destruction of Hamas. As quoted previously, the Israeli military is low on armaments. And the threat from Hezbollah is growing greater. And there is a shortage of soldiers

 

"The long-simmering issue has come to a head as the military deals with manpower shortages wrought by months of fighting in Gaza and the possibility of war against the Hezbollah terror group in Lebanon.

The military currently requires some 10,000 new soldiers, Gallant told the committee Monday, but can only accommodate the enlistment of an additional 3,000 ultra-Orthodox this year, which would be in addition to the 1,800 Haredi soldiers who are drafted annually."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gallant-idf-needs-flexible-regulations-on-haredi-draft-not-law-setting-quotas/

NEW: Hamas is continuing to resist Israeli and US efforts to create a phased ceasefire deal that would secure the release of Israeli hostages, end the war, and begin major reconstruction efforts in the Gaza Strip. (1/3)

2/ The remaining gap in ceasefire negotiations is significant because agreeing to the most recent Hamas language would effectively commit Israel to the permanent ceasefire Hamas has been demanding before Hamas released all remaining hostages.

3/ Hamas’ current demands could also enable Hamas to drag on negotiations indefinitely with no mechanism to compel it to release the remaining hostages.

Image

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

NEW: Hamas is continuing to resist Israeli and US efforts to create a phased ceasefire deal that would secure the release of Israeli hostages, end the war, and begin major reconstruction efforts in the Gaza Strip. (1/3)

2/ The remaining gap in ceasefire negotiations is significant because agreeing to the most recent Hamas language would effectively commit Israel to the permanent ceasefire Hamas has been demanding before Hamas released all remaining hostages.

3/ Hamas’ current demands could also enable Hamas to drag on negotiations indefinitely with no mechanism to compel it to release the remaining hostages.

Image

You sure about that? That the fault lies with Hamas this time? It's a good thing that Israel is being led by such an honorable person as Benjamin Netanyahu.. Otherwise, there would be room for doubt.

 

Netanyahu issues list of ‘non-negotiable’ demands as hostage talks slated to restart

Ahead of the Israeli negotiating team’s departure for further hostage deal talks in Cairo and Doha later this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a list on Sunday evening of what he said were non-negotiable Israeli demands, including a guarantee that Israel could resume fighting, which would need to be met in the event of a hostage release and ceasefire deal with Hamas.

Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress.

The renewed negotiations in both Egypt and Qatar come after the Hamas terror group said on Saturday that it was ready to discuss a hostage deal and an end to the war in Gaza without an upfront commitment by Israel to a “complete and permanent ceasefire,” breaking from the position it has held in all previous negotiations since November.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-issues-list-of-non-negotiable-demands-as-hostage-talks-slated-to-restart/

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You sure about that? That the fault lies with Hamas this time? It's a good thing that Israel is being led by such an honorable person as Benjamin Netanyahu.. Otherwise, there would be room for doubt.

 

Netanyahu issues list of ‘non-negotiable’ demands as hostage talks slated to restart

Ahead of the Israeli negotiating team’s departure for further hostage deal talks in Cairo and Doha later this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a list on Sunday evening of what he said were non-negotiable Israeli demands, including a guarantee that Israel could resume fighting, which would need to be met in the event of a hostage release and ceasefire deal with Hamas.

Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress.

The renewed negotiations in both Egypt and Qatar come after the Hamas terror group said on Saturday that it was ready to discuss a hostage deal and an end to the war in Gaza without an upfront commitment by Israel to a “complete and permanent ceasefire,” breaking from the position it has held in all previous negotiations since November.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-issues-list-of-non-negotiable-demands-as-hostage-talks-slated-to-restart/

ISW is, are you sure its Netanyahu? What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

ISW is, are you sure its Netanyahu? What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

That did not answer my question though did it.

 

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

 

From ISW

 

Hamas’ most recent ceasefire position demonstrates that the group has not meaningfully shifted its position since negotiations last stalled in June and that it still seeks to undermine the agreement’s phasing. Axios reported on July 6 that the outstanding gaps between Israel and Hamas center on the language regarding and time-delimitation of negotiations to transition from the first phase of the ceasefire deal to the second phase.[4] The current proposal says that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations during the first phase end in a transition to the second phase and a sustainable calm. Hamas is attempting to remove “make every effort,” replacing it with “ensure“ and dropping the original six-week time limit for the first phase.[5] This change would make the initial ceasefire effectively permanent from the start and would commit the United States, Qatar, and Egypt to securing a ceasefire and enable Hamas to draw out negotiations for the transition to the second phase indefinitely, if needed.[6] The language and removal of the time-delimited first phase makes it more difficult for Israel to resume operations to pressure Hamas and extract concessions without breaking the agreement entirely or appearing to scuttle negotiations over the transition to phase two. This could allow Hamas to secure a complete ceasefire without adhering to commitments under phases two and three, which include the release of Israeli hostages. The categories of hostages in phase two and three include Israeli soldiers, whom Hamas is reticent to release.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

That did not answer my question though did it.

 

 

From ISW

 

Hamas’ most recent ceasefire position demonstrates that the group has not meaningfully shifted its position since negotiations last stalled in June and that it still seeks to undermine the agreement’s phasing. Axios reported on July 6 that the outstanding gaps between Israel and Hamas center on the language regarding and time-delimitation of negotiations to transition from the first phase of the ceasefire deal to the second phase.[4] The current proposal says that the United States, Egypt, and Qatar will “make every effort” to ensure negotiations during the first phase end in a transition to the second phase and a sustainable calm. Hamas is attempting to remove “make every effort,” replacing it with “ensure“ and dropping the original six-week time limit for the first phase.[5] This change would make the initial ceasefire effectively permanent from the start and would commit the United States, Qatar, and Egypt to securing a ceasefire and enable Hamas to draw out negotiations for the transition to the second phase indefinitely, if needed.[6] The language and removal of the time-delimited first phase makes it more difficult for Israel to resume operations to pressure Hamas and extract concessions without breaking the agreement entirely or appearing to scuttle negotiations over the transition to phase two. This could allow Hamas to secure a complete ceasefire without adhering to commitments under phases two and three, which include the release of Israeli hostages. The categories of hostages in phase two and three include Israeli soldiers, whom Hamas is reticent to release.

Get back to me when the ISW joins in the negotiations.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Get back to me when the ISW joins in the negotiations.

Lame deflection ISW a credible source

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

Yeah, the leftists in Israel hate him. 

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Lame deflection ISW a credible source

But they are not involved in the negotiations. 

Just now, placeholder said:

But they are not involved in the negotiations. 

They are reporting on Hamas demands are you saying they are lying?

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

They are reporting on Hamas demands are you saying they are lying?

This is about the negotiations, The negotiators believe Netanyahu's remarks are hurting the negotiations. Does ISW have access to the internal workings of the negotiations?

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

This is about the negotiations, The negotiators believe Netanyahu's remarks are hurting the negotiations. Does ISW have access to the internal workings of the negotiations?

Again, your avoiding my questions:

 

42 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What issues is he raising that are outside the previous Biden/Israel deal that was endorsed by the Security Council?

 

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Again, your avoiding my questions:

 

 

Your questions are irrelevant. What don't you understand about this sentence?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Your questions are irrelevant. What don't you understand about this sentence?

"Netanyahu’s statement, at a crucial phase ahead of the resumption of talks, sparked anger, both in Israel and among mediators, with some accusing him of attempting to sabotage hard-won progress."

Hardly irrelevant, Hamas have put in place added demands to the original deal, ISW has made those clear. 

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hardly irrelevant, Hamas have put in place added demands to the original deal, ISW has made those clear. 

What don't you understand about the fact that Netanyahu's statement has been deemed counterproductive to the negotiation process?

Just now, placeholder said:

What don't you understand about the fact that Netanyahu's statement has been deemed counterproductive to the negotiation process?

What makes you think I have not read and understand what his statement implies. Why are you ignoring the fact that Hamas are the ones who refused the deal to start with and put in place extra demands?

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes you think I have not read and understand what his statement implies. Why are you ignoring the fact that Hamas are the ones who refused the deal to start with and put in place extra demands?

Apparently, the mediators don't agree with those assertions. But what is believed is that Netanyahu sabotaged the negotiations. It's amazing how much implicit trust you place in the honorable intentions of that gentleman. I don't think most Israelis share your opinion.

Just now, placeholder said:

Apparently, the mediators don't agree with those assertions. But what is believed is that Netanyahu sabotaged the negotiations. It's amazing how much implicit trust you place in the honorable intentions of that gentleman. I don't think most Israelis share your opinion.

 So Hamas did not refuse the deal put forward by Biden then.....oh that's a new one...lol

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