Are hybrids still an option?

[Negita43]

13 minutes ago, MrBanks said:

I cannot help on the aspect of the question regarding Nissan, as I have no experience of them, in recent years, however, I have a plug in hybrid (different manufacturer).

Could you say which manufacturer/model - she is not commited to anything yet so more info the better.

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Thanks for your answer - I am just confused as to why running on battery alone is important - and what did you buy in the end?

I could charge at my house, and do the shorter trips on electric power alone.  For longer trips I can use the IC engine - so no need for charging stations.

 

Have not replaced my ICE SUV yet, as the only plug in hybrid that's not an over-priced import is the Mitsubishi Outlander, which is an old design.  Waiting for a locally built option.

[newnative]

     Spouse and I would only buy a hybrid at this point--we're not ready for all-electric.  They are definitely still a strong option and will be for some time.

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Could you say which manufacturer/model - she is not commited to anything yet so more info the better.

compare kicks vs Toyota Yaris Cross HEV Premium Luxury

https://www.headlightmag.com/2023-10-07-specification-comparison-yaris-cross-br-v-kicks/

[JBChiangRai]

8 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Thanks for your answer - I am just confused as to why running on battery alone is important - and what did you buy in the end?

 

You need to try running on battery only to understand, it's like being wafted along on a silent magic carpet and as a bonus, you're paying 4 times less per km on battery power.

[sirineou]

IMO Hybrid is not a good option. 

If you have a car that is sold in both a straight ICE version and a Hybrid version . You need to consider, how much more will the Hybrid cost from the straight ICE vehicle? Then  how much fuel you consume per year .

For discussion purposes let's say the Hybrid version costs 200k more. 

Given how much fuel you burn per year, how many years will it take to get back the Premium you paid?  , 

Then you have complexity. 

The more complex a mechanism is , the more chances for something to go wrong. A  hybrid is a lot more complex than an ICE vehicle. 

Same for a plug in Hybrid. How much will you pay vs how much you will save.  

[scorecard]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:06 AM, flyingtlger said:

I think hybrids are the way to go.

I've had a Tesla for over 5 years already.

I even have a home charger but if you go on a trip that's over 2 hours it's a hassle.

First you need to find a charging station which are far and few between and often times you'll need to wait 15-20 just to start charging and then you'll need to charge your car for at least 15-30 minutes.

 

My next car will be definitely be a hybrid.

I'd stay away from Nissan from what I've researched. 

Their hybrids are not very unsophisticated.

I think Toyota's make some of the best hybrids....

 

But can you carry an electric charger with you on the trip and plug it in when you stop to recharge / to stay the night?  (Provided of course you can find a secure location where the charger won't be stolen.)

[Xonax]

The Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) is in many ways a very nice car, but lacks power for a quick overtake and acceleration on uphill roads. Nissan claims it to run 26 kms/liter but that is way above reality, which is around 18 kms/liter. I really love the sound system.

[vinny41]

9 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Could you say which manufacturer/model - she is not commited to anything yet so more info the better.

Compare fuel consumption rate Yaris cross HEV and a number of Kicks models

https://www.headlightmag.com/2023-10-12-acceleration-fuel-consumption-hev-toyota-yaris-cross/

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, sirineou said:

IMO Hybrid is not a good option. 

If you have a car that is sold in both a straight ICE version and a Hybrid version . You need to consider, how much more will the Hybrid cost from the straight ICE vehicle? Then  how much fuel you consume per year .

For discussion purposes let's say the Hybrid version costs 200k more. 

Given how much fuel you burn per year, how many years will it take to get back the Premium you paid?  , 

Then you have complexity. 

The more complex a mechanism is , the more chances for something to go wrong. A  hybrid is a lot more complex than an ICE vehicle. 

Same for a plug in Hybrid. How much will you pay vs how much you will save.  

This forum is getting weirder and weirder all the time , or perhaps I should say some of it's members are.

I made a straight forward reply .

I don't like Hybrids for two basic and simple reasons.

1) the extra cost over a conventional ice , (It will take to long to get back the extra cost based on fuel consumption savings)

2) Complexity  (More complex so more chances for things to go wrong) 

Yet I got , confused emojis. What the hell is so confusing about that? You might not agree with it, but confused? 

And laugh emojis'. I fail to see the humor in anything I said. 

Very weird IMO.  Not sure why I even bother posting anymore.

 

Edited March 29 by sirineou

[Gweiloman]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:17 AM, vinny41 said:

BYD SEAL U DM-i  available 1st April 2024 

https://www.thairath.co.th/news/auto/news/2774190

Haval H6 PHEV

Discount 300,000 ! Official price thailand/ (Plug-in Hybrid) : 1,399,000 baht | Pure electric run 201 km.

https://autolifethailand.tv/discount-official-price-haval-h6-phev-thailand/

The above are PHEV someone on this forum currently owns the Haval H6 Phev 

I have a Haval H6 PHEV. It wasn’t cheap, Thb 1.7 million but I believe GWM has reduced the price to around Thb 1.4 million. 
 

I absolutely love the car. It smooth, comfortable, spacious especially when the back seats are down. 4 dogs plus luggage in track, no problem. I get a real world range of about 160-170 km on a full charge, normal city driving with occasional dual carriageway speeds of 100 kmh. I have hardly spent any money on petrol except when I do long distance trips. As @sirineoupointed out, I would probably never recover the premium price over an equivalent ICE but I have no regrets as it’s an extremely well made car, easily comparable to much more expensive European imports.

 

To me, it’s currently the best PHEV available, in part due to its electric range.

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I have a Haval H6 PHEV. It wasn’t cheap, Thb 1.7 million but I believe GWM has reduced the price to around Thb 1.4 million. 
 

I absolutely love the car. It smooth, comfortable, spacious especially when the back seats are down. 4 dogs plus luggage in track, no problem. I get a real world range of about 160-170 km on a full charge, normal city driving with occasional dual carriageway speeds of 100 kmh. I have hardly spent any money on petrol except when I do long distance trips. As @sirineoupointed out, I would probably never recover the premium price over an equivalent ICE but I have no regrets as it’s an extremely well made car, easily comparable to much more expensive European imports.

 

To me, it’s currently the best PHEV available, in part due to its electric range.

It seems that GWM is not happy with the price war between Brands and is planning to ask Chinese Government to operate a cartel regarding price reductions

There are other reports ( can't link here due to forum rules)  that GWM is planning to operate a price we publish is the price you pay no price reductions or discounts

I think Tesla use to have a similar policy while their sales were high and no competition 

My own personal view is sometimes manufacturers when they launch a new product in a new country they simply pick a price out of the air and run with that or reduce the price if there not getting the sales numbers they were expecting

https://autolifethailand.tv/gwm-chinese-brand-price-war/

[Furioso]

20 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It seems that GWM is not happy with the price war between Brands and is planning to ask Chinese Government to operate a cartel regarding price reductions

There are other reports ( can't link here due to forum rules)  that GWM is planning to operate a price we publish is the price you pay no price reductions or discounts

I think Tesla use to have a similar policy while their sales were high and no competition 

My own personal view is sometimes manufacturers when they launch a new product in a new country they simply pick a price out of the air and run with that or reduce the price if there not getting the sales numbers they were expecting

https://autolifethailand.tv/gwm-chinese-brand-price-war/

I think these cars sell for way less than half in China what than the price here in Thailand. I wonder what the import tax is? 

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:32 AM, tomazbodner said:

how it works, and that's not really a hybrid.

Works like a diesel electric

I've got a diesel hybrid. 

 

I don't know much about hybrids or why I don't see more diesel hybrids on the road, super fuel efficient for a big car. 

 

Most hybrids I see are petrol hybrids. 

 

You seem to know about hybrids, any information on why diesel hybrids are not as common as petrol? 

 

Edited March 31 by SAFETY FIRST

[Kinnock]

21 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I have a Haval H6 PHEV. It wasn’t cheap, Thb 1.7 million but I believe GWM has reduced the price to around Thb 1.4 million. 
 

I absolutely love the car. It smooth, comfortable, spacious especially when the back seats are down. 4 dogs plus luggage in track, no problem. I get a real world range of about 160-170 km on a full charge, normal city driving with occasional dual carriageway speeds of 100 kmh. I have hardly spent any money on petrol except when I do long distance trips. As @sirineoupointed out, I would probably never recover the premium price over an equivalent ICE but I have no regrets as it’s an extremely well made car, easily comparable to much more expensive European imports.

 

To me, it’s currently the best PHEV available, in part due to its electric range.

Sounds ideal for the way we use our car.  We make regular trips from Bangkok to Chonbur for business, then make less frequent, longer 'road trips' to the North and South.  So it sounds like the shorter journeys could be all electric?

 

I liked the look of the interior of the Haval when I sat in one at the Motorshow.

 

If I lived in US or UK I would worry about future sanctions if I bought a Chinese car, but have no worries about that in Thailand.  And I think some GWM production is now in Thailand?

 

How's the interior finishes stood up to daily use?

[Kinnock]

6 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I've got a diesel hybrid. 

 

I don't know much about hybrids or why I don't see more diesel hybrids on the road, super fuel efficient for a big car. 

 

Most hybrids I see are petrol hybrids. 

 

You seem to know about hybrids, any information on why diesel hybrids are not as common as petrol? 

 

Weight, cost, pollution and stop/start cycle.

 

Diesel engines are heavier than petrol, add in the weight of the batteries and you get one very heavy vehicle.  They also cost more to make and the suspension and drive train will cost more to cope with the weight.

 

One reason for hybrids is pollution reduction, this is negated by a diesel.

 

The ICE engine in a hybrid stops and starts regularly.  The high compression and longer warm up time of a diesel is not ideal for this use case.

 

With locomotives, weight is much less of an issue, and they tend to run continuously day and night, hence diesel electric is a good option.

[connda]

My city car with an ICE engine gets over 50 mpg.  Why do I need a hybrid?  If you really are an ecophile who believe that the earth's population will become extinct in 1995 2000 2007 2016 2023 2030 as the polar ice caps melt and floods Martha Vineyard or Rehoboth Beach or other beach-front properties where the Obamas, Bidens, Gores and other "greenie" live, well then, try driving something other than a status symbol.  And for the Gores and Obamas and the like?  Fly commercial.  Hypocrites one and all.  "Do as we say, not as we do - commoner serfs."

[SAFETY FIRST]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

Weight, cost, pollution and stop/start cycle.

 

Diesel engines are heavier than petrol, add in the weight of the batteries and you get one very heavy vehicle.  They also cost more to make and the suspension and drive train will cost more to cope with the weight.

 

One reason for hybrids is pollution reduction, this is negated by a diesel.

 

The ICE engine in a hybrid stops and starts regularly.  The high compression and longer warm up time of a diesel is not ideal for this use case.

 

With locomotives, weight is much less of an issue, and they tend to run continuously day and night, hence diesel electric is a good option.

Thanks very much, very interesting. 

 

I've got a S class MB. 

 

It does weigh a lot, that's what surprises me, very heavy but very economical. 

 

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Furioso said:

I think these cars sell for way less than half in China what than the price here in Thailand. I wonder what the import tax is? 

I think made in Thailand so no import tax GWM think current Thailand price is to low and should be B300,000 higher

https://www.nationthailand.com/pr-news/perspective/40001877

[PFMills]

2 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Thanks very much, very interesting. 

 

I've got a S class MB. 

 

It does weigh a lot, that's what surprises me, very heavy but very economical. 

 

Have one also …quite economical

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Sounds ideal for the way we use our car.  We make regular trips from Bangkok to Chonbur for business, then make less frequent, longer 'road trips' to the North and South.  So it sounds like the shorter journeys could be all electric?

 

I liked the look of the interior of the Haval when I sat in one at the Motorshow.

 

If I lived in US or UK I would worry about future sanctions if I bought a Chinese car, but have no worries about that in Thailand.  And I think some GWM production is now in Thailand?

 

How's the interior finishes stood up to daily use?

So far so good. Over 30,000 km driven, no rattles or creaks. It appears to be a well made car.

 

China haters talk about Chinese crap goods but it’s the supplier that determines the price point and thus the final quality, not the factory. 

[Negita43]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

China haters talk about Chinese crap goods but it’s the supplier that determines the price point and thus the final quality, not the factory. 

I'm not a China hater but your comment about who determines quality ignores the fact that quality is determined at the design and manufacturing stage poor design and poor quality control is not the under the control of the supplier (distributor)

[vinny41]

9 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

So far so good. Over 30,000 km driven, no rattles or creaks. It appears to be a well made car.

 

China haters talk about Chinese crap goods but it’s the supplier that determines the price point and thus the final quality, not the factory. 

Here is a website that explains the relationship between OEM ( GWM being an OEM ) and there suppliers

At the end of the day it is always the OEM that has the final call on  the price point of each component part

Tier 1 suppliers are the top dogs. They manufacture and supply automotive-grade parts and systems directly to the OEMs. They have built their businesses on long-term relationships with these OEMs, with whom they often jointly set cost targets and share product developments.

https://www.indx.com/en/posts/driving-innovation-for-automotive-suppliers#:~:text=The automotive supply chain can,parts needed by Tier 1.

OEM will have contracts with Tier 1 suppliers

Tier 1 suppliers will have contracts with Tier 2 suppliers

Tier 2 and 3 suppliers normally don't have any contracts with the OEM 

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, Negita43 said:

I'm not a China hater but your comment about who determines quality ignores the fact that quality is determined at the design and manufacturing stage poor design and poor quality control is not the under the control of the supplier (distributor)

 

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Here is a website that explains the relationship between OEM ( GWM being an OEM ) and there suppliers

At the end of the day it is always the OEM that has the final call on  the price point of each component part

Tier 1 suppliers are the top dogs. They manufacture and supply automotive-grade parts and systems directly to the OEMs. They have built their businesses on long-term relationships with these OEMs, with whom they often jointly set cost targets and share product developments.

https://www.indx.com/en/posts/driving-innovation-for-automotive-suppliers#:~:text=The automotive supply chain can,parts needed by Tier 1.

OEM will have contracts with Tier 1 suppliers

Tier 1 suppliers will have contracts with Tier 2 suppliers

Tier 2 and 3 suppliers normally don't have any contracts with the OEM 

Yes, you are correct. What I meant by supplier in my post was the OEM and not a supplier to the OEM. 

 

My point is that the factory is able to produce a range of quality from a squeaky rubber duck all the way to high precision parts. The final quality is dependent upon the specs of the OEM.

[BTB1977]

Wow, you're lucky to have girlfriend with 800,000 baht of HER own money to spend. Since she's good with money just step back and let here decide.