Speaking Thai - is it necessary these days for an expat ?

[rumak]

54 minutes ago, transam said:

Being from the UK I have no interest in learning the language, when in the UK school I also had no interest in learning French, which we were told would be a great asset...😂

For me, been living here for many years, I get by not speaking Thai/Laos, when I did speak it, folk just looked at each other...😂....so now don't bother, except some very basic stuff.

I have even spoken Queens English with Uni-English Thais, same thing, don't understand me, though to be fair, if I phone 3BB, press 9 for English, with a problem, they understand me perfectly, 10 out of 10........

 

So no, if you want to learn Thai/Laos, great, but get to a stage where you can converse, if not, waste of time....🤗

 

another typical excuse .   plain and simple  🤗

[GarryP]

16 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Lived on Samui for 15 years, Pattaya now 2.5 years.

Nobody understand my Samui accent.

Learn Central accent what they speak on TV, Tai (southern accent) is very hard for central and northern Thai.

When my Thai son 12 years old, born on Sami comes and visit they acctually ask him to speak English

When I first arrived in Thailand and was learning a few words on Samui, I screamed at the Baht bus (pick-up truck bus thing) to get it to stop, as the locals did because there was no bell (41 years ago). The bus screeched to a halt only for me to learn that my pronunciation was so bad that I had been screaming f@#k, f@#k, f@#k, instead of stop, stop, stop.

 

I also mispronounced banana and ended up ordering a semen milkshake. They looked really shocked until I pointed at a banana at the shake stall in Nathon.    

[transam]

Just now, rumak said:

 

Another typical excuse.   Plain and simple.  🤗

It read good to me............😘...............😂

 

Oh, I corrected your English grammar.......😂

[JimGant]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:47 AM, Goat said:

In Australia we make immigrants speak english, we should do it here also.

You're right. English should be mandated for everyone in Thailand.

[ujayujay]

Speaking Thai - not necessary but it helps!

Edited April 9 by ujayujay

[simon43]

Yonks ago I did actually study for an MA in Thai at Chulalongkorn University.  I sat the course but never took the final exams, because a large 'exam fee' was required and I was only learning for fun.

 

But my knowledge of Thai enabled me to interact with the local Thais in where I lived, with useful phrases such as:

 

- Conversing with my mad #2: "You are completely mad, please do not throw another plate"

- Conversing with the local police guy: "I agree with you.  She is totally mad - please arrest her next time"

- With the local pharmacy: "Do you have any stronger medication? The previous medicine did not affect her"

 

and finally with the local travel agent: "Get me the next flight to Burma, but tell her that I have moved to Cambodia if she asks"

 

My use of Burmese and Lao is generally much more mundane phrases!

 

 

[brianthainess]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, The Cobra said:

it's like they're allergic to picking up the local lamguage

I'd stick to learning better English if I were you. 

[eumenades]

I am astounded by some of these reactions. Living overseas requires learning the language as a matter of courtesy, let alone convenience. I speak three other European languages - mainly through visits and curiosity. It is true Thai is a difficult language to learn mainly through : 1) the alphabet, 2) Thais replying to one's attempts in English, 3) fear of making a <deleted> of it. 

 

The alphabet is excruciating : eight types of 'p' similar with 't's. bits that go backwards and crazy 'second-floor' vowels, some phonologically missing entirely.  But think of how difficult English must be with its Chaucerian German spelling. Advice : keep up, you cannot get any worse, win tiny arguments and save money when bargaining.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, eumenades said:

I am astounded by some of these reactions. Living overseas requires learning the language as a matter of courtesy, let alone convenience. I speak three other European languages - mainly through visits and curiosity. It is true Thai is a difficult language to learn mainly through : 1) the alphabet, 2) Thais replying to one's attempts in English, 3) fear of making a <deleted> of it. 

 

The alphabet is excruciating : eight types of 'p' similar with 't's. bits that go backwards and crazy 'second-floor' vowels, some phonologically missing entirely.  But think of how difficult English must be with its Chaucerian German spelling. Advice : keep up, you cannot get any worse, win tiny arguments and save money when bargaining.

Do you Wai at Tesco teller.......?    🤔

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Do you Wai at Tesco teller.......?    🤔

 

Although loaded with facetious bias the question is valid... 

 

I wonder how many of the folk who 'refuse' to learn Thai are the same ones who refuse to Wai anyone.... 

 

That doesn't mean 'wai-ing' all and sundry everywhere, but being polite enough to know how to Wai and when, and also making the effort to speak a 'smattering' of Thai...  even at a very basic level to show a basic level of respect. 

 

 

 

I think no one levy's any criticism at those who make an effort and tries to speak some Thai... even a little....

 

But those who make excuses not to make any effort at all and then gaslight and ridicule others who do make effort are not presenting themselves in a favourable light IMO.... 

 

 

------

 

If someone can't speak Thai but gives it some effort and tries regularly... then fair enough. 

If someone can't speak Thai and just can't be bothered, then I think they are lazy.

 

 

Someone such as myself... I'm lazy but have been fortunate to pick it up by ear so that I can get by.

 

I know one thing for sure though, my life here would be richer if I were able to speak and read Thai fluently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

As far as dealing with the Op specifically... 

 

Is speaking Thai necessary for a foreigner - the answer is no... Its not necessary as anyone can 'get by without it'.

 

But, Life is also easier in any country when we speak the language. 

 

 

As far as the Op is concerned - I don't think there are any foreigners who've lived here long term who are incapable of ordering a Pad Thai in Thai....    But there are many unable to go beyond that. 

 

 

Thai is difficult and takes effort...    thats understandable... but I think those refusing to make any effort are either lazy, have simply given up trying, or have some sort of superiority complex that they don't need to speak Thai... 

 

 

 

 

 

[thecyclist]

On 4/8/2024 at 12:34 PM, bkk6060 said:

They are always talking about us.  And, I do not really want to know what they are saying. 

You got a point. The word Farang is often combined with the most "unflattering " words the Thai language has to offer. 

[thecyclist]

In the age of google translate it certainly isn't necessary anymore. 

But it helps a lot, especially in the sticks. 

I noticed the difference when I moved to Vietnam a couple of years ago. Vietnamese is even harder than Thai, the pronunciation that is ,not the reading and writing, which is much easier. Since I bike around a lot, I often spent time in places where they are not used to seeing farangs ,and where hardly anyone speaks English. There I really miss conversing with the locals, so much so that I have considered moving back to Thailand just because of the language. 

 

[thecyclist]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

When I first arrived in Thailand and was learning a few words on Samui, I screamed at the Baht bus (pick-up truck bus thing) to get it to stop, as the locals did because there was no bell (41 years ago). The bus screeched to a halt only for me to learn that my pronunciation was so bad that I had been screaming f@#k, f@#k, f@#k, instead of stop, stop, stop.

 

I also mispronounced banana and ended up ordering a semen milkshake. They looked really shocked until I pointed at a banana at the shake stall in Nathon.    

Nice anecdote, but kluauy (banana)and khuay (c.ck) easy to differentiate, even for an English speaker. 

[FruitPudding]

On 4/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, The Cobra said:

Can you speak Thai beyond the basics ?

 

Yes.

 

 

On 4/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, The Cobra said:

 

is it really needed and do you even care ?

 

Nope.

 

On 4/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, The Cobra said:

Just wondered what your take is on speaking Thai ?

 

More important things to do with my time

[thecyclist]

7 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

A most interesting, but largely uninformed, discussion.

 

May I go slightly off topic.

 

In high school in Australia, back in the 1960s and early 1970s. I spent 5 years learning Latin and French.  The former I rarely used, the latter I can still read with some difficulty.  My five years of learning French spent little time in speaking French - which I have used in Laos and Viet Nam in the late 1970s, and briefly in Quebec, Canada, in the late 1980s (native speakers had difficultly understanding me, not unexpectedly).

 

At university in the mid 1970s, I had many Vietnamese friends (and later a Vietnamese wife).  At that time I spent an hour or so every day learning how to read, write and pronounce Vietnamese words.  By the early 1990s I was proficient enough, but not fluent, in the three main Vietnamese dialects to be able to do my PhD research on Vietnamese communities in Australia by conduction about 450 interviews of families in the Vietnamese language/dialects.  After the research finished, I very very rarely had the opportunity to speak Vietnamese again.

 

In 1976, while studying another degree at university, I was required to learn Bahasa Indonesia, which I found difficult at the time.

 

In 1996-1997 I spent 7 months in Thailand, attached to several research projects at a major Thai university.  Over this short period I learnt enough central Thai to carry on a basic conversation.

 

Almost 12 years ago, I returned to Viet Nam for the first time since 1985, and tried using Vietnamese again for the first time since 1993-94.  After a few days "words came back to me" and after about 2 weeks I was able to carry on a very very basic conversation and read signs.

 

Arriving in Thailand to live just over 10 years ago, I started, for the first time, to learn how to write and read Thai.   I persisted for a year, until I gave up.  The Thai I had learnt in 1996-97 did not return.  And I admit, after a few years here, then in my early 60s, my native English ability slowly declined, despite my reading English works for hours every day.

 

A detour.  I had a friend at work in the early-mid 1980s.  He was in his 50s, a retired Australian Army major, who had be an intelligence officer.  Bruce (his name) wanted to learn Pu Tong Hua (Mandarin Chinese), but no institutions in China would accept him - he was too old, people over 35 were nor admitted.  Every day, he would spend hours trying to lean how to read, write and speak Chinese, but he never advanced beyond the very basics.

 

In conclusion - our brain's plasticity, declines as we age, our ability to learn new skills, also declines over time - for some of us, this decline is very slow, for others it is fast.  Some old people find it easy to learn new skills, new languages, but others amongst us find this task difficult, if not impossible.  For young people, it is easy to learn a second, third, etc. language; for us older people it is much harder.  As a university student in the 1970s, I was "stunned" at how many of young student friends from continental Europe fluently spoke 4, 5, 6, languages, or how some of Chinese Malay/Indonesia/Brunei friends not only spoke English and Bahasa, but also 3+ Chinese dialects.

 

Some of us older people may desire to learn beyond basic Thai, but our ability to do so may not match our desires.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

You found Bahasa difficult to learn.One of the easiest languages in the world to acquire,  in sharp contrast to tiếng Việt, which you managed. 

[GarryP]

11 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

Nice anecdote, but kluauy (banana)and khuay (c.ck) easy to differentiate, even for an English speaker. 

I'd only been here a few weeks at the time, and learned my lesson. You should try ordering crysanthemum tea in Thai. I really like it but for quite a while refused to order it for fear of mispronouncing it. No problem now. 

[NanLaew]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:43 AM, rattlesnake said:

On 4/8/2024 at 6:34 AM, bkk6060 said:

They are always talking about us.  And, I do not really want to know what they are saying. 

 

Big mistake IMO. Best to understand, intervene and rectify all erroneous assumptions being made.

 

No, no and no. If she tells me that he's her brother, then I don't need to know anything more.

[MangoKorat]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Never had a problem getting stuff like that done. 

Maybe not if you live in an area like Bangkok or Pattaya - out in the sticks its different.  I wouldn't even be able to pay for my bins emptying if I couldn't speak any Thai.

[Acharn]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:27 PM, atpeace said:

Remember thinking this 27 years ago after arriving here to tour Thailand on a pedal bike.  Just finished up with doing 6 months in Mexico and struggling with the complexities of Spanish.  I was completely wrong! 27 years later (20 spent hear), I speak less Thai than the Spanish I learned in a few months.

 

Can you hear the different tones?  How does a person that is tone deaf learn Thai?

I don't think the tones are all that important. I mostly get the meaning from context -- what's being talked about. I agree that for words like "horse" and "dog" (or "near" and "far") it can be important, but if you just keep on talking your meaning will probably become clear. I mostly don't hear the tones consciously, although I sure do when watching the news on TV. The most important thing is to speak. As much as you can. People are hardwired to correct what they hear. A native speaker will probably understand you, and will be able to question you if you're too garbled.

Edited April 9 by Acharn

[Acharn]

8 hours ago, rumak said:

 

Q :"eat rice... or not yet ? "     

A:  "eat already" 

 

simple ! 

And, depending on the context, "eat already" might mean "after eating," but the meaning is clear from the context.

[Paris333]

Speaking Thai? Why not its a very good idea and its a courtesy for Thai citizens.

What is the problem? As many Asian languages are formed in different alphabet and its not made in latino alphabet.

I am Greek from Athens and I know many Greeks who know to talk......Chinese language and work in logistics companies and enterpises but they dont know how to ...write Chinese letters.

Its astonishing that talking to them they all told they learn to speak basic chinese language after approximately a year but to write chinese it is extremely very very difficult and I suppose it exists in other Asian languages Japan -Thailand -South Korean etc.

Unfortunately I work in two jobs daily and I do not have free time for learning Asian Thai language but if I had the time I will try its like a courtesy for local population a foreigner to try hard enouth to learn their basic language. 

Edited April 9 by Paris333

[Paris333]

Nice choice!

Edited April 9 by Paris333
Double post

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Maybe not if you live in an area like Bangkok or Pattaya - out in the sticks its different.  I wouldn't even be able to pay for my bins emptying if I couldn't speak any Thai.

They knock on our door every year to collect our 300bht.

They point at the bin, show me a receipt, no Thai required.

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

They knock on our door every year to collect our 300bht.

They point at the bin, show me a receipt, no Thai required.

Maybe you're at home - I'm usually busy.

[MangoKorat]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

I mostly get the meaning from context

So do Thai's if you listen to their conversations. If you could separate those conversations word by word, you would note that the tone used is often wrong.

 

If a Thai was talking about taking their dog for a walk and got it wrong, as they often do at the speed they talk - they know automatically by the context that it was dog not  'horse'.  However, if we get the tone wrong?.........well, that's a different story.  They can use completely wrong words but we have to be correct or get that 'confused face'.

Edited April 9 by MangoKorat

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Maybe you're at home - I'm usually busy.

 

Busy. On the forum. Right.

[MangoKorat]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Busy. On the forum. Right.

I only ever go on the forum when I'm in the UK - never when I'm in Thailand, too busy.  Its also pretty difficult to get to the Or Bor Tor from the UK - very long drive.

Edited April 9 by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:29 AM, BritManToo said:

Central Thai is a worthless language only spoken by 40% of the Thai population as a 1st language.

Why? I don't follow what your thinking on that. Just about all Thai's can speak it, whether as a first or second language so if you do, they understand.

 

What would be worthless is learning the Korat dialect (no I don't mean Isaan) and living in Krabi.

[GarryP]

4 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Why? I don't follow what your thinking on that. Just about all Thai's can speak it, whether as a first or second language so if you do, they understand.

 

What would be worthless is learning the Korat dialect (no I don't mean Isaan) and living in Krabi.

I agree. The language used in just about all Thai schools is central Thai. So where I live, even though most locals normally speak the local Isarn dialect (a few speak Phu Thai), they understand everything I say in central Thai and also most speak to me in central Thai. Luckily, for those that don't, there is no problem because I understand Isarn too.