Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[kwonitoy]

The missile launch that hit the radar station

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It’s been 24 hours since the attack on a civilian beach in Sevastopol that killed and injured scores of civilians sunbathing by the beach. Yet, hardly any coverage of this incident in western media nor on here.

 

Those of us who understand and condone Russia’s SMO has been regularly described as disgusting, sickening, despicable etc.  Whatever. How would you describe this attack? Glorious? Honourable? For God and country? To Russia with love?

 

Here is the BBC story:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6pppr719rlo

 

relevant excerpts:

Quote

Russia has blamed the US and vowed "consequences" for a Ukrainian missile strike on Sevastopol in occupied Crimea on Sunday, which officials say killed four people - including two children.

Around 150 more were injured in the attack as missile debris fell on a beach nearby.

 

Quote

Moscow said Sunday's deaths and injuries were caused by falling debris, after its air defences in Crimea intercepted five missiles loaded with cluster warheads launched by Ukrainian forces.

 

so the beach wasn't a target.

 

the difference is that Ruzzia deliberately targets civilians EVERY DAY.

 

who will put an end to your disinformation, Gweiloman ?

 

Ruzzian officials' feigned "indignation" following this regrettable unintended collateral damage makes me vomit. how can these disgusting sacks of bile look at themselves in the mirror ?

 

and why do Ruzzian occupation authorities keep beaches open in a warzone ?  probably hoping for incidents they can later exploit in the media.

[tgw]

 

[Bkk Brian]

Russia the boy who cried wolf far too many times. 

 

Russia pins Dagestan attack on Ukraine, ignoring religious tensions

Mr Gadzhiev suggested that the intelligence services of Ukraine and Nato countries may have orchestrated the attacks. He provided no evidence to back up his accusation.

And when the pro-Kremlin news site Komsomolskaya Pravda reported on events in Dagestan, it accused the “collective West” of trying “to open a second front” against Russia.

The writer continued: “When it comes to unrest in this region traditionally it’s the ears of British intelligence that stick out.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj555p05yl4o

[ChicagoExpat]

11 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It’s been 24 hours since the attack on a civilian beach in Sevastopol that killed and injured scores of civilians sunbathing by the beach. Yet, hardly any coverage of this incident in western media nor on here.

 

Those of us who understand and condone Russia’s SMO has been regularly described as disgusting, sickening, despicable etc.  Whatever. How would you describe this attack? Glorious? Honourable? For God and country? To Russia with love?

Well, Gweiloman, there was "no attack on a civilian beach".  It was an intercepted missile that unfortunately fell on civilians.  This is the problem when you rely on Eastern Axis media for your information -- they actually do exactly what you say above and when they do it's a lie.

 

So, this is YOUR chance to condemn Russia's war (no such thing as an SMO) as disgusting, sickening, despicable, etc.  Because all of these people you allegedly care about are dead because of the war (no such thing as an SMO) you "condone."

 

The difference is the Russians purposefully, regularly from the start of this war (no such thing as an SMO) target civilians.  See the difference?  Russia starts a war (no such thing as an SMO) and is responsible for ALL deaths overall in the war (no such thing as an SMO), in the same way Germany was for WW2. 

[stevenl]

18 hours ago, tgw said:

 

some people here a very obviously a piece of Putin's propaganda machine.

The sad thing is that some of them don't even realize this 

[Gweiloman]

8 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Well, Gweiloman, there was "no attack on a civilian beach".  It was an intercepted missile that unfortunately fell on civilians.  This is the problem when you rely on Eastern Axis media for your information -- they actually do exactly what you say above and when they do it's a lie.

 

So, this is YOUR chance to condemn Russia's war (no such thing as an SMO) as disgusting, sickening, despicable, etc.  Because all of these people you allegedly care about are dead because of the war (no such thing as an SMO) you "condone."

 

The difference is the Russians purposefully, regularly from the start of this war (no such thing as an SMO) target civilians.  See the difference?  Russia starts a war (no such thing as an SMO) and is responsible for ALL deaths overall in the war (no such thing as an SMO), in the same way Germany was for WW2. 

 

 

Ukrainian officials have defended the strike in the wake of the attack, calling Crimea a legitimate target. 

Mykhailo Podolyak - a top aide to President Volodymyr Zelensky - said the peninsula was in effect "a large military camp" which he said held "hundreds of direct military targets, which the Russians are cynically trying to hide and cover up with their own civilians".

 

Sounds suspiciously like something the IDF would say in killing hundreds of Palestinians.

 

And using cluster bombs? Aren’t these supposedly designed to kill rather than to destroy buildings?

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Ukrainian officials have defended the strike in the wake of the attack, calling Crimea a legitimate target. 

Mykhailo Podolyak - a top aide to President Volodymyr Zelensky - said the peninsula was in effect "a large military camp" which he said held "hundreds of direct military targets, which the Russians are cynically trying to hide and cover up with their own civilians".

 

Sounds suspiciously like something the IDF would say in killing hundreds of Palestinians.

 

And using cluster bombs? Aren’t these supposedly designed to kill rather than to destroy buildings?

Cluster bombs are used to attack airfields.

 

In this case, a HIMARS shell was deflected by the Russians and landed on a beach

 

But, you knew that already.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Ukrainian officials have defended the strike in the wake of the attack, calling Crimea a legitimate target. 

Mykhailo Podolyak - a top aide to President Volodymyr Zelensky - said the peninsula was in effect "a large military camp" which he said held "hundreds of direct military targets, which the Russians are cynically trying to hide and cover up with their own civilians".

 

Sounds suspiciously like something the IDF would say in killing hundreds of Palestinians.

 

And using cluster bombs? Aren’t these supposedly designed to kill rather than to destroy buildings?

Nothing you posted addressing the real issue -- that a Ukrainian missile injured/killed civilians as part of its defense of its own country.  Unfortunate but that's what happens when Russia starts a needless war (there is no such thing as an SMO).

 

You RARELY address the actual substance of a comment and always go with "Look a squirrel!"  If you wanted to substantively counter my debunking of your claim, you'd post evidence that it was NOT a downed missile but that, for some reason, a beach (!) with civilians was the actual target.  Feel free to do so.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Russia the boy who cried wolf far too many times. 

 

Russia pins Dagestan attack on Ukraine, ignoring religious tensions

Mr Gadzhiev suggested that the intelligence services of Ukraine and Nato countries may have orchestrated the attacks. He provided no evidence to back up his accusation.

And when the pro-Kremlin news site Komsomolskaya Pravda reported on events in Dagestan, it accused the “collective West” of trying “to open a second front” against Russia.

The writer continued: “When it comes to unrest in this region traditionally it’s the ears of British intelligence that stick out.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj555p05yl4o

Yes -- the concert attack?  The United States and Jews!  The Dagestan attack?  The Brits (and likely Jews)!  And the funny thing is the people most likely to believe this are not Russians themselves but their fellow travelers who enjoy life in the West -- the Gweilomans, the BangkokBobs, etc.  Russians know what they're fed is BS but know that to question it leads to unfortunate results.  The useful idiots naive lap it up and ask for more.

Edited Tuesday at 03:01 AM by ChicagoExpat
Softened the tone

[ChicagoExpat]

14 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

The missile launch that hit the radar station

A beautiful sight.

[ChicagoExpat]

18 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Tik tok about to be banned. DJI drones about to be banned. 100% tariffs on products we are unable to efficiently produce. If you don’t do as we tell you, you will be sanctioned. You are not allowed to sell your products to certain countries. The,police can’t guarantee your safety; after all, we kill 3 of you a day, on average.

 

Welcome to the free world! Errr… thanks but no thanks.

I agree these are issues worth debating.  But that's the thing -- in the West we can debate them -- in the countries you support debate isn't possible.  And, it's true, one of the advantages to dictatorships is low crime.

 

Now that I've commented on the substance of what you wrote (something you avoid every time) let's talk about your motive.  Is it freedom you really care about?  If so, you wouldn't support Iran/Russia/China/North Korea, the most repressive countries on earth.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:17 PM, ChicagoExpat said:

Seeing as this is a forum for discussing what we all think, I'm surprised my inquiries came as such a shock.  In no post have I ever tried to persuade you that will Ukraine will win or lose; the only things I have argued anywhere is that 1) Russia's actions are wrong and should be opposed  2) Russia's supporters in the West argue dishonestly  3) you are a prime example of #2. 

 

"You never care" but post frequently, ALWAYS reflecting the pro-Russia POV.

Wrong. I post against the west's disinformation and propaganda, not for Russia.

 

IMO the US and EU positions are fundamentally wrong. IMO it's because the west has encouraged the deeply corrupt Ukraine in it's bid to join the EU/ NATO because of some propaganda that Russia wants to occupy Europe, which IMO is usual neocon garbage that got us into the dire Iraq 2 conflict.

[BobBKK]

58 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

A beautiful sight.

 

Tell that to the families of the children killed by USA cluster bombs on Savastopols beach. Shame on you.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-blames-us-deadly-crimea-171438950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ_cmx0GDbvHI1pqvgkmKNfFvQG5-fvDDF3egZQZTavmLwMCFyz6zBJiVcAQyOvpsMQYLpYb_GWYqsZBGv6SjUcL77zzbEL8vqckiOwI1ndy8jCf3DG3mJezsnwpE9YPzEgNY3STAUOUtzHKkkdnMfwTOmyslQdwmHdItzFwGPs

[thaibeachlovers]

51 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I agree these are issues worth debating.  But that's the thing -- in the West we can debate them -- in the countries you support debate isn't possible.  And, it's true, one of the advantages to dictatorships is low crime.

 

Now that I've commented on the substance of what you wrote (something you avoid every time) let's talk about your motive.  Is it freedom you really care about?  If so, you wouldn't support Iran/Russia/China/North Korea, the most repressive countries on earth.

You keep on banging that drum that anyone not supporting western lies must be supporting Iran/Russia/China/North Korea, which is obviously garbage.

Perhaps we don't like that "our side" is not on the side of right, in our opinions.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

The sad thing is that some of them don't even realize this 

The sad thing is that some posters believe western propaganda, that anyone not supporting the western story must be Russian stooges.

[transam]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The sad thing is that some posters believe western propaganda, that anyone not supporting the western story must be Russian stooges.

Says a Russian stooge..................

[Doctor Tom]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Tell that to the families of the children killed by USA cluster bombs on Savastopols beach. Shame on you.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-blames-us-deadly-crimea-171438950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ_cmx0GDbvHI1pqvgkmKNfFvQG5-fvDDF3egZQZTavmLwMCFyz6zBJiVcAQyOvpsMQYLpYb_GWYqsZBGv6SjUcL77zzbEL8vqckiOwI1ndy8jCf3DG3mJezsnwpE9YPzEgNY3STAUOUtzHKkkdnMfwTOmyslQdwmHdItzFwGPs

Don't be naive, this is a war,  50 million died in the last big one, WW2, that's what war does, people die, supposed innocents die, true innocents die.  War is a human condition,. it has been so ever since humans have roamed the Earth.  It will always be so.  Just hope that you and yours don't get caught up in one.  And If you do, well, its one of the prices of being human and sentient.   

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Tell that to the families of the children killed by USA cluster bombs on Savastopols beach. Shame on you.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-blames-us-deadly-crimea-171438950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ_cmx0GDbvHI1pqvgkmKNfFvQG5-fvDDF3egZQZTavmLwMCFyz6zBJiVcAQyOvpsMQYLpYb_GWYqsZBGv6SjUcL77zzbEL8vqckiOwI1ndy8jCf3DG3mJezsnwpE9YPzEgNY3STAUOUtzHKkkdnMfwTOmyslQdwmHdItzFwGPs

What cluster bombs?

[Mavideol]

Ukraine destroyed columns of waiting Russian troops as soon as it was allowed to strike across the border, commander says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-destroyed-columns-waiting-russian-113148244.html

 

[Mavideol]

A Russian soldier's killing of a wounded comrade highlights the 'brutal culture' rampant inside Russia's military, war analysts say

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldiers-killing-wounded-comrade-190154691.html

 

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What cluster bombs?

 Ukraine attacked civilian infrastructure in Sevastopol using ATACMS tactical missiles carrying cluster munitions on June 23. Holidaymakers were killed on the beach. Now, deny it.

MSM will be in denial mode soon, lying to everyone that it was an 'accident' or 'pieces of missiles blown up and falling'. 

[ChicagoExpat]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You keep on banging that drum that anyone not supporting western lies must be supporting Iran/Russia/China/North Korea, which is obviously garbage.

Perhaps we don't like that "our side" is not on the side of right, in our opinions.

Here's 5 minutes' effort of looking at a small portion of your past comments.  They all reflect pro-Russian talking points: this war is the West's fault, it is hopeless and Ukraine should immediately surrender, if there is a nuclear war it's the West's fault, Ukraine has rejected all of Russia's reasonable efforts to avoid violence, Russia had no choice, glee over Ukrainian misfortune, etc.  Not a SINGLE comment that shows any substantive criticism of Russia for starting the war.  For someone who purports to be bothered by "western lies", Russian ones sure seem to agree with you.

 

Short of nuclear war, which would likely be triggered by western actions ( NATO troops in Ukraine etc )

Zelensky should have considered that going into a war without the home grown resources to continue it was not a good idea a couple years ago.

It's called "escalation" and will likely end up MAD. European leaders will be able to observe the blackened remains of their cities as they emerge from their shelters and be able to say, "we had to destroy the country to save it from Putin".

Pity about the Abrams, LOL.

Nah. Putin knows if he backs down on this the US and it's allies will seize on it to hurt Russia.

IMO it's simply a case of waiting for Zelensky to admit that sending more men to die is not going to change that and negotiating an end.

Perhaps if the rest of the ( western ) world didn't try to move nukes up to the Russian border Putin wouldn't start any wars.

Russia's red line as stated long ago was Ukraine in NATO.

I'm pretty sure that I know what the average Ukrainian man is thinking as they hope to not be sent to the front, but I have zero idea of what will be in the minds of the western leaders as they survey the likely end of their proxy war on terms not of their choosing. Do they feel any guilt for all the young men that died because of them, are they concerned for the ordinary Ukrainian shivering in the dark of winter, will they ever accept that it was a bad idea, or is it all someone else's fault?

Perhaps they should have thought about that before they rejected negotiations. Always a losing prospect depending on countries that may have domestic issues affecting public/ government support.

Given that no western country has a treaty with Ukraine, none are obligated to help.

Oh dear oh dear, is it all going wrong for Mr Zelensky ( and all the Ukrainians that will die in this proxy war )?

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, kwonitoy said:

Dry your crocodile tears comrade

Comments like that are why such as I pay you no heed. Some of the posts on this subforum are more like a product of kindergarten bullying than adults discussing something.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 Ukraine attacked civilian infrastructure in Sevastopol using ATACMS tactical missiles carrying cluster munitions on June 23. Holidaymakers were killed on the beach. Now, deny it.

MSM will be in denial mode soon, lying to everyone that it was an 'accident' or 'pieces of missiles blown up and falling'. 

The Russian defence ministry said that the missiles hit by its air defence systems were armed with cluster munition warheads.

 

The same Russia that just blamed Ukraine for the Islamic terrorist attack in Dagestan. Yea right.

[ChicagoExpat]

16 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Tell that to the families of the children killed by USA cluster bombs on Savastopols beach. Shame on you.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-blames-us-deadly-crimea-171438950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAACZ_cmx0GDbvHI1pqvgkmKNfFvQG5-fvDDF3egZQZTavmLwMCFyz6zBJiVcAQyOvpsMQYLpYb_GWYqsZBGv6SjUcL77zzbEL8vqckiOwI1ndy8jCf3DG3mJezsnwpE9YPzEgNY3STAUOUtzHKkkdnMfwTOmyslQdwmHdItzFwGPs

BolshevikBob, if you REALLY cared about this, you'd admit it was a missile shot down on it's way to a target and place the blame where it belongs -- on Russia, that started this war.  They would be alive if Russia hadn't invaded, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands so far.

 

Yes, missiles on their way to Russian targets ARE a beautiful sight.

 

And as if you could ever shame me.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Here's 5 minutes' effort of looking at a small portion of your past comments.  They all reflect pro-Russian talking points: this war is the West's fault, it is hopeless and Ukraine should immediately surrender, if there is a nuclear war it's the West's fault, Ukraine has rejected all of Russia's reasonable efforts to avoid violence, Russia had no choice, glee over Ukrainian misfortune, etc.  Not a SINGLE comment that shows any substantive criticism of Russia for starting the war.  For someone who purports to be bothered by "western lies", Russian ones sure seem to agree with you.

 

Short of nuclear war, which would likely be triggered by western actions ( NATO troops in Ukraine etc )

Zelensky should have considered that going into a war without the home grown resources to continue it was not a good idea a couple years ago.

It's called "escalation" and will likely end up MAD. European leaders will be able to observe the blackened remains of their cities as they emerge from their shelters and be able to say, "we had to destroy the country to save it from Putin".

Pity about the Abrams, LOL.

Nah. Putin knows if he backs down on this the US and it's allies will seize on it to hurt Russia.

IMO it's simply a case of waiting for Zelensky to admit that sending more men to die is not going to change that and negotiating an end.

Perhaps if the rest of the ( western ) world didn't try to move nukes up to the Russian border Putin wouldn't start any wars.

Russia's red line as stated long ago was Ukraine in NATO.

I'm pretty sure that I know what the average Ukrainian man is thinking as they hope to not be sent to the front, but I have zero idea of what will be in the minds of the western leaders as they survey the likely end of their proxy war on terms not of their choosing. Do they feel any guilt for all the young men that died because of them, are they concerned for the ordinary Ukrainian shivering in the dark of winter, will they ever accept that it was a bad idea, or is it all someone else's fault?

Perhaps they should have thought about that before they rejected negotiations. Always a losing prospect depending on countries that may have domestic issues affecting public/ government support.

Given that no western country has a treaty with Ukraine, none are obligated to help.

Oh dear oh dear, is it all going wrong for Mr Zelensky ( and all the Ukrainians that will die in this proxy war )?

Russian talking points .

 

Quote even one comment of mine that supports Putin or any dictator, but you can't, because I have not made any.

 

Seeing that the western side is wrong is not supporting the opposing side.

Perhaps you are young and believe propaganda. I used to believe that the Vietnam war was a "good" war, till I grew up and learned a few things.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Here's 5 minutes' effort of looking at a small portion of your past comments. 

Pull the other one. That's way more than 5 minutes worth. Are you keeping a file on everyone that you have a problem with? You do know that stalking is against forum rules, don't you?

[BobBKK]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Says a Russian stooge..................

 Can't you debate without insults constantly?  it's all AD HOMINEM  day in, day out

[BobBKK]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

What makes you think I am happy? Who is ever happy when innocent civilians are killed on either side? It's nearly a daily affair with Russian missiles into Ukraine towns.

 

You  threats of "wait for the payback" are what's disgusting. Its shows you are actively looking for more Ukraine civilians to be killed. Are well over 10,000 not enough for you yet?

 

 

 Nice try. Russia has already said it will strike back when it is ready. Ukraine is desperate now and it is nearing the end.