Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Phulublub said:

Why would it?  My UK pension is taxed as income.....do any countries not count pensions as income?

 

PH

 

That the UK views pension as income does not have a direct bearing on the way the TRD views it. The TRD views income from employment differently from other types of income, mostly I suspect because of the PAYE aspect. Each of the different types of income have their own rules, including allowances and deductions but I have never looked at them that closely to understand precisely how they differ from an accounting perspective..

[4MyEgo]

22 hours ago, stat said:

Thx for your post! Do you get any interest on your deposit or can you do any brokerage with your deposit? Thanks!

 

If you are referring to interest here, I would assume it's minimal as the account is a daily transactable account, e.g. I don't want to lock up my funds for a higher rate. The reason I do that is that I draw down on the money to survive on.

 

I have the same account back home, but they think I am a resident of my home country, and as there is a tax threshold, I pay no tax on interest earned back there. Now you might say, why not tell them you are a non resident and allow them to collect the withholding tax (10%). Fact of the matter is, I don't trust banks and I don't want them passing my account information onto anyone, as they do, do this.

[Klonko]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Possibly, possibly not. The fact the TRD officer enforces filings from even low income employment, is telling, is it not. It's difficult for me to imagine the rules would be any different where the income is from  other sources.

I believe to remember, buried in the old tax thread, that income from employment must be filed regardless of (additional) tax payable, because the tax withheld by the employer is somehow checked against the emploees' tax filing, resulting in adjusting payments. I do not know if Thai pensions are also subject to withholding tax, but the tax filings seem to be further processed, which is not the case for foreign pensions. Assuming my recollection is correct, the TRD statement is probably only limited to Thai income and pensions.

Edited July 12 by Klonko

[Phulublub]

36 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

 

That the UK views pension as income does not have a direct bearing on the way the TRD views it. The TRD views income from employment differently from other types of income, mostly I suspect because of the PAYE aspect. Each of the different types of income have their own rules, including allowances and deductions but I have never looked at them that closely to understand precisely how they differ from an accounting perspective..

This I know.  The Thai definitions of assessable income have no real direct read across in many respects. 

 

Potentially, they treat remitted Captal Gains as income - I have not seen any discussion on how CGT paid would affect the calulations (but would suggest it would count as tax paid in the same way as any other).

 

They treat remitted interest and dividends as assessable income.  How do UK ISA holders fare in this regard?

 

There are many grey areas and questions but to think they would exclude pension income as not assessable would be naive IMV.

 

PH

[stat]

3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Wow - Germany is definitely not a place to visit for longer than 3 months.  

 

If you do not have any money, Germany is the place to be, if you have money you pay taxes big time.

[stat]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

You seem to find it necessary to respond to / question my posts every single day, even though you're not the person being addressed. When you do that every day, as you do, in forum terms that known as trolling and stalking. 

 

Stop following me, stop trying to be so argumentative and trying to start fights, I'm not interested in any form of communication with you, on any subject.

 

 

I posted a friendly question. Every time someone has a question that differs from your view you call their post argumentative. It seems obvious that your tax declaration was fairly simple and so is different from most other people here.

 

When you post questionable advise you get a feedback. If you lack arguments you write something unrelated to the inital argument.

 

You still behave as if you are the absolute authority on anything tax related for whatever reason.

[stat]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Hi!  I'll answer that. 

 

Last week wife and I went to our local tax office to update my TIN card with a new address.  I was told since I have a pink ID, I use that number when filing.  District office called provincial office to have my pink ID number entered into the e-filing system.  Tax office lady said given my remittances were not assessable (all prior savings), that I did NOT need to file, unless I wanted to apply for refund of tax paid (interest and dividends).

 

A couple days later, wife and I logged onto the system and set up my e-filing account.  A few days later (on Sunday) we logged on again and filed three returns (2021, 2022, 2023). 

 

No assessable remitted income.  Claimed interest from BKK Bank and SET dividends, along with tax withheld.  Less than 15 minutes per return, mostly due to cut'n'pasting into online translator.  No documents required to upload. 

 

 

Did they demand any proof? I guess it was not a mingled account? Thanks!

[stat]

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Why would it?  My UK pension is taxed as income.....do any countries not count pensions as income?

 

PH

Th for some reason does not tax German government pension. In the DTA,  TH has the sole right to tax, but they don't do it.

[ukrules]

4 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

A post from @Dogmatix in another thread where he asks the TRD officer if anyone who exceeds the threshold but doesn't need to pay tax, must file a tax return

 

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

It's very possible that people send more money than the yearly allowances in January to cover normal living expenses and then leave for the rest of the year.

This is specifically with regards to obtaining a TID and filing during the first half of the year.

 

I'm sure many people will remit plenty of Baht and keep below the 180 day threshold inside the first half of the year and there are rules about getting a tax ID which surely don't apply to those who will be non resident at the end of the year - or do they?

[NoDisplayName]

58 minutes ago, stat said:

Did they demand any proof? I guess it was not a mingled account? Thanks!

 

Remember, this is just my single data point anecdote....YKMV!

 

But I suspect is the most common experience for non-employed foreigners in Thailand.  If you work or involved in business here, filing probably required regardless of total income (my opinion).

 

Sit down at the desk across from the tax officer.  Tell them the numbers, or in my case hand them a single hand-written paper with the relevant numbers:  total Thai bank interest, total tax withheld, total SET dividends received, total tax withheld, total remittances.

 

Interest and dividends total about 6K, interest about 1K, remitted about 310K.  Officer asked if remittance was salary or pension.  I said it was savings.  No request for foreign bank statements was requested, simple self assessment.  (Turns out my deductions and 0% tax bracket would total 320K, includes wife's social/health insurance payments.)  Officer said do NOT need to file.  I asked about filing for refund of tax paid.  Officer says yes, can, if I choose to.

 

No documents were requested at this point to reach the NO filing determination.  (Small values and no Thai salary.)  I had the dividend payment receipts available, and bank passbooks,  but not the bank interest statement, as no desire to wait several hours in the local branch for a printout for such a small sum.

 

I asked about online filing - would I need to upload any documents such as dividend receipts or interest statement.  Officer said not necessary.  We then set up online filing.  My TIN was cancelled and my pink ID card number was entered in the e-file system.  Officer let me retain the TIN card for my files.

 

We later filed three online tax returns, all filed late, about 15 minutes each.  Confirm no documents required to upload.  The payer tax ID number (BKK Bank and broker) was required to submit this section.  Got final PD90 and receipt for 2021 and 2022.  It appears no refund if filing over one year late, but no late filing fee.  Paid a 200 baht late fee by bank transfer for 2023, and will receive an 850 baht check in the mail in a week or so, final PD90 and receipt will be available via the online system.

 

My local tax office says NO file needed.  I shall file online annually simply to have a record of filing.  It's fun and easy.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12 by NoDisplayName

[sometimewoodworker]

29 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

If you are non tax resident in Thailand (maximum 179 days) you pay no Thai tax, you do not file a tax return.
 

FWIW You can be a tax resident in 1 year but not a tax resident the next year and a tax resident in the following year.

Edited July 12 by sometimewoodworker

[ukrules]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you are non tax resident in Thailand (maximum 179 days) you pay no Thai tax, you do not file a tax return.
 

FWIW You can be a tax resident in 1 year but not a tax resident the next year and a tax resident in the following year.

 

I know this, but there has been recent talk that would appear to contradict this.

1 - Regarding getting a TIN within a certain number of days of crossing the 'tax free' allowance threshold
2 - Just crossing the threshold itself seems to indicate that people are required to file a tax return

[geisha]

54 minutes ago, ukrules said:

 

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

It's very possible that people send more money than the yearly allowances in January to cover normal living expenses and then leave for the rest of the year.

This is specifically with regards to obtaining a TID and filing during the first half of the year.

 

I'm sure many people will remit plenty of Baht and keep below the 180 day threshold inside the first half of the year and there are rules about getting a tax ID which surely don't apply to those who will be non resident at the end of the year - or do they?

This is what I do as I only stay 5 months in Thailand a year.   I own nothing in Thailand. I have also suggested that a family member does the same. He’s still very active but was just about deciding to move into a nice retirement / care home in Thailand.  Now he’s heard of the tax problem, and he says no way he’s paying tax on top of the rather expensive ( for Thailand) retirement home . (Ps not buying, some of these residences have rooms / studios and bigger on a rental basis or sale .

I think this tax may be a very negative message to future retirees. I definitely would not give them a penny of my hard earned already taxed money. Plenty other countries have sunshine in the EU winter time. 

 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, stat said:

Th for some reason does not tax German government pension. In the DTA,  TH has the sole right to tax, but they don't do it.

Are you saying, if in the old days, and you remitted your German pension to Thailand in year earned -- they wouldn't tax it, if you filed a tax return? I believe you're confusing not filing, and the "pension remitted is previous year's earnings" charade, as your observation that Thailand doesn't tax it.

 

"They don't tax it" is, of course, the illogical extension of "I didn't file a Thai tax return for this income." Duh.

[redwood1]

49 minutes ago, geisha said:

This is what I do as I only stay 5 months in Thailand a year.   I own nothing in Thailand. I have also suggested that a family member does the same. He’s still very active but was just about deciding to move into a nice retirement / care home in Thailand.  Now he’s heard of the tax problem, and he says no way he’s paying tax on top of the rather expensive ( for Thailand) retirement home . (Ps not buying, some of these residences have rooms / studios and bigger on a rental basis or sale .

I think this tax may be a very negative message to future retirees. I definitely would not give them a penny of my hard earned already taxed money. Plenty other countries have sunshine in the EU winter time. 

 

 

But Thailand often says they will be a world HUB for expats looking for assisted living centers in the Very near future.....

Can you see the very elderly coming to Thailand in their last days and having to screw around with this tax?....

 

I sure cant...

Edited July 12 by redwood1

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, stat said:

I posted a friendly question. Every time someone has a question that differs from your view you call their post argumentative. It seems obvious that your tax declaration was fairly simple and so is different from most other people here.

 

When you post questionable advise you get a feedback. If you lack arguments you write something unrelated to the inital argument.

 

You still behave as if you are the absolute authority on anything tax related for whatever reason.

Oh you poor thing, can't get an answer to your "friendly" question!

 

For the past seven months, you have engaged in a very public campaign of challenging anything and everything I say on the subject of tax. This has evolved from writing many many letters of complaint to Admin, Support and the owners, frequent abusive PM's to me and solicitation of support from other members. Today, your campaign comprises (several times) daily challenges (every day without fail) to anything I have written in posts the previous day and not so subtle remarks about, "the poster who cannot be named"....today I apparently, "behave as if you are the absolute authority on anything tax related for whatever reason".

 

I don't really want to put you on my ignore list because many of the things you post need correcting in the eyes of members. I am sorry you are unable to get over my elevation to Moderator; I'm sorry you are unable to get over the fact that I made something useful out of the tax information and compiled the tax guide; I'm sorry you were unable to accept the official warnings and temporary bans you were given for being unnecessarily argumentative; I'm sorry that so many members ask me so many tax related questions and not you and that the "ask mike show", continues unabated; I'm sorry that you are not widely seen as the tax expert you have always claimed to be....only you can deal with those issues in your own mind.

 

In going forward, I will continue to ignore any question you ask of me but I will correct any post of yours that I think contains incorrect information. 

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

It's very possible that people send more money than the yearly allowances in January to cover normal living expenses and then leave for the rest of the year.

This is specifically with regards to obtaining a TID and filing during the first half of the year.

 

I'm sure many people will remit plenty of Baht and keep below the 180 day threshold inside the first half of the year and there are rules about getting a tax ID which surely don't apply to those who will be non resident at the end of the year - or do they?

If you are not tax resident, you have no income tax obligation in Thailand.

[UKresonant]

14 hours ago, geisha said:

Thanks, but as I said , he would prefer to sell the house , but he would not bring the money into Thailand as he has a very good bank in the UK that he trusts and where he also has his life savings invested. His plan is/ was transferring around 2500 to 3000 £ a month ( depending on how the care home wants to be paid) to a Thai bank account. (  Of course that’s excluding a visa and health insurance) So, for example , he would receive a total of not more than 36000£ every year into Thailand, how can we find out if he’s going to be taxed on this amount , and by how much. 
He has traveled extensively all his life so he’s not a naive traveler and the Care home seems great. He’s fed up with the UK weather , and gets bored , he’d be better off in Thailand with a pool and good weather and lots of activities proposed.

He could always stay under the 6 months as I proposed and avoid tax. Otherwise we have a lot of family in Australia where he could live very near them . He’d prefer Thailand.

its just the missing info on the tax situation . Thanks.

It depends what the THB1.6m consists of, but if they are to sell their primary residence and other large transactions in the UK, perhaps best NOT becoming Thai Tax until it becomes savings in the UK or rebased investments (perhaps including those within UK  S&S ISAs, depending on their composition).

 

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I know this, but there has been recent talk that would appear to contradict this.

1 - Regarding getting a TIN within a certain number of days of crossing the 'tax free' allowance threshold
2 - Just crossing the threshold itself seems to indicate that people are required to file a tax return

Speculation based on surmise and poor information.

 

Having a Thai tax number (TIN) has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

Having a large (or moderate) income has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

If you are non Thai tax resident you are liable to NO Thai income tax

If you are non Thai tax resident you there is NO requirement to file a tax return 

 

NB all the above is related to income that is not earned or generated in THAILAND but is brought into Thailand.

income that is earned or generated in Thailand has totally different exceptions and the vast majority of non Thai earners have the returns completed on their behalf.

Digital nomads are in a category of their own, the position for them is somewhat fluid.

 

[Mike Lister]

13 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Speculation based on surmise and poor information.

 

Having a Thai tax number (TIN) has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

Having a large (or moderate) income has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

If you are non Thai tax resident you are liable to NO Thai income tax

If you are non Thai tax resident you there is NO requirement to file a tax return 

 

NB all the above is related to income that is not earned or generated in THAILAND but is brought into Thailand.

income that is earned or generated in Thailand has totally different exceptions and the vast majority of non Thai earners have the returns completed on their behalf.

Digital nomads are in a category of their own, the position for them is somewhat fluid.

 

To be clear, TRD regs. require tax residents to acquire a TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum assessable threshold.

 

84) Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you must obtain a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You are required by law to obtain a TIN, within 60 days from when you first derive the minimum assessable income, which is 120,000 baht of income received from overseas, after becoming tax resident. For long stay residents that will be a minimum of 180 days plus 60 days in country, in the same tax year. The Thai ID card number serves as the TIN for the local population. It is not necessary for people who are not Thai tax resident to obtain a TIN, neither is it necessary to obtain one if you do not exceed the assessable income level threshold. 

 

 

Edited July 13 by Mike Lister

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

To be clear, TRD regs. require tax residents to acquire a TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum assessable threshold

No problem with your summation of those who are Thai tax residents.

 

To be clear, in case anyone missed my points

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Having a Thai tax number (TIN) has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

Having a large (or moderate) income has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

If you are non Thai tax resident you are liable to NO Thai income tax

If you are non Thai tax resident you there is NO requirement to file a tax return 

There is an extreme likelihood that under the regulations currently written and enforced, that a non Thai citizen can drop into and out of Thai tax residence on a year by year basis, this however is a very different situation that the majority are not going to bother with. It is also probable that if enough people with large enough tax liabilities take advantage of the current rules to avoid being taxed that the rule that tax residency is on an annual basis will be changed. 
TIT YMMV

 

For an example try to understand the U.K. rules on tax residency and how many years and how difficult it is to become nonresident and not ordinarily resident 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Hi!  I'll answer that. 

 

Last week wife and I went to our local tax office to update my TIN card with a new address.  I was told since I have a pink ID, I use that number when filing.  District office called provincial office to have my pink ID number entered into the e-filing system.  Tax office lady said given my remittances were not assessable (all prior savings), that I did NOT need to file, unless I wanted to apply for refund of tax paid (interest and dividends).

 

A couple days later, wife and I logged onto the system and set up my e-filing account.  A few days later (on Sunday) we logged on again and filed three returns (2021, 2022, 2023). 

 

No assessable remitted income.  Claimed interest from BKK Bank and SET dividends, along with tax withheld.  Less than 15 minutes per return, mostly due to cut'n'pasting into online translator.  No documents required to upload. 

 

Thanks - that is good information.  I am sure that a basic lodgement would only take 15-30 minutes or so, if all documentation is available as it was for you and nothing needed to be attached. But I doubt if anyone was doing a full online return and claiming exemptions and allowances that it would probably not be so simple, but with most Expats there will be issues that have something to do with a DTA and that is not possible to lodge online. But TRD has said that they are revamping the online system - lets see what comes out later this year.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Remember, this is just my single data point anecdote....YKMV!

 

But I suspect is the most common experience for non-employed foreigners in Thailand.  If you work or involved in business here, filing probably required regardless of total income (my opinion).

 

Sit down at the desk across from the tax officer.  Tell them the numbers, or in my case hand them a single hand-written paper with the relevant numbers:  total Thai bank interest, total tax withheld, total SET dividends received, total tax withheld, total remittances.

 

Interest and dividends total about 6K, interest about 1K, remitted about 310K.  Officer asked if remittance was salary or pension.  I said it was savings.  No request for foreign bank statements was requested, simple self assessment.  (Turns out my deductions and 0% tax bracket would total 320K, includes wife's social/health insurance payments.)  Officer said do NOT need to file.  I asked about filing for refund of tax paid.  Officer says yes, can, if I choose to.

 

No documents were requested at this point to reach the NO filing determination.  (Small values and no Thai salary.)  I had the dividend payment receipts available, and bank passbooks,  but not the bank interest statement, as no desire to wait several hours in the local branch for a printout for such a small sum.

 

I asked about online filing - would I need to upload any documents such as dividend receipts or interest statement.  Officer said not necessary.  We then set up online filing.  My TIN was cancelled and my pink ID card number was entered in the e-file system.  Officer let me retain the TIN card for my files.

 

We later filed three online tax returns, all filed late, about 15 minutes each.  Confirm no documents required to upload.  The payer tax ID number (BKK Bank and broker) was required to submit this section.  Got final PD90 and receipt for 2021 and 2022.  It appears no refund if filing over one year late, but no late filing fee.  Paid a 200 baht late fee by bank transfer for 2023, and will receive an 850 baht check in the mail in a week or so, final PD90 and receipt will be available via the online system.

 

My local tax office says NO file needed.  I shall file online annually simply to have a record of filing.  It's fun and easy.

 

More confirmation that the advice I got, not to lodge a tax return is correct, and that TRD does not want people to lodge a tax return if they are not employed and if they have no tax to pay or to claim back. That is why as advised by the other tax expert, TRD does not chase retired/married old Expats living in Thailand or all the 10s of millions of Thais that do not lodge a return.  No is that official -= NO - but it is how TRD has operated with regards to filing a tax return.  Will that change this year - maybe - stay tuned. 

 

As stated before, I have calculated that I have no tax to pay in Thailand, after allowances, exemptions and DSTA provisions, so therefore I will not be lodging a tax return - and I will be keeping detailed records of those calculations and the financial records used - unless TRD states that I and 10s of millions of other Thais must lodge a tax return.

 

 

[Mike Lister]

7 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

More confirmation that the advice I got, not to lodge a tax return is correct, and that TRD does not want people to lodge a tax return if they are not employed and if they have no tax to pay or to claim back. That is why as advised by the other tax expert, TRD does not chase retired/married old Expats living in Thailand or all the 10s of millions of Thais that do not lodge a return.  No is that official -= NO - but it is how TRD has operated with regards to filing a tax return.  Will that change this year - maybe - stay tuned. 

 

As stated before, I have calculated that I have no tax to pay in Thailand, after allowances, exemptions and DSTA provisions, so therefore I will not be lodging a tax return - and I will be keeping detailed records of those calculations and the financial records used - unless TRD states that I and 10s of millions of other Thais must lodge a tax return.

 

 

Respectfully, your posts on this aspect, only confirm what has happened historically rather than what happens today or what is likely to happen tomorrow, as a forecast, they are not too useful.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I know this, but there has been recent talk that would appear to contradict this.

1 - Regarding getting a TIN within a certain number of days of crossing the 'tax free' allowance threshold
2 - Just crossing the threshold itself seems to indicate that people are required to file a tax return

 

IMO based upon current TRD 'practice' they dont want 1 or 2 - which does ignore the technical BS literal rules - but that is their decision.

 

Immigration and TRD also do not enforce the Law that states all Foreigners must get a tax clearance certificate before leaving Thailand. 

Immigration does not enforce the literal words in the TM30 Law and many other Laws.

Police do not enforce the rules (much) regarding wearing a helmet - and many other traffic rules.

 

Thailand does not follow the centralised nanny state government process where every single thing they do is written down in a rule or in a  regulation, and where every single person can challenge them if they do anything that is not strictly within those rules and regulations, or challenge them if they do something that is contrary to those rules and regulations.  Compliance with every single literal rule and regulation, and armies of bureaucrats constantly updating and amending those rules and regulations, and another army training all the bureaucrats on any new changes or amendments, is NOT how Thailand operates. That is why in Thailand, the reality is that Officers across all Government positions have full legal autonomy in their interpretation and application of the 'rules'.  TRD has made it clear what they want - they do not want 10s of millions of unneeded tax returns - but they are not going to rewrite the rules - but they can change that at any time - stay tuned folks.

[NoDisplayName]

42 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Thanks - that is good information.  I am sure that a basic lodgement would only take 15-30 minutes or so, if all documentation is available as it was for you and nothing needed to be attached. But I doubt if anyone was doing a full online return and claiming exemptions and allowances that it would probably not be so simple, but with most Expats there will be issues that have something to do with a DTA and that is not possible to lodge online. But TRD has said that they are revamping the online system - lets see what comes out later this year.

 

I would disagree.  The system as functioning in the now is based almost entirely on self-assessment of remitted funds.

 

Only assessable remitted funds are entered onto the tax form.  NON-assessable funds (as determined by DTA) are invisible to the system.  The tax forms are not designed to capture all remittances, only assessable income which is entered into the standard spaces for salary and interest/dividends and capital gains, etc.

 

It is the tax filer's burden to have sufficient supporting documentation available to back up their self-assessment if audited, but that does not come into play during normal filing, either online or in-person.

 

If you are a US citizen earning 10K in bank interest in Thailand and remitting $3000/month US social security (covered by DTA), then you are below the threshold.  You can (in my and my local tax office opinion) NOT file, OR you can file online only listing 20K Thai-sourced income to claim your 1500 baht tax refund, OR you can attend your tax office to file in-person and be told NOT to file unless you want to claim the refund.  (YKMV!) 

 

In any case, the remitted social security is not assessable, not taxed, and not listed on the tax form.  There are no DTA issues to prevent filing online.  This should remain so until the tax forms are revised to collect all remittances, regardless of assessability.

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Police do not enforce the rules (much) regarding wearing a helmet - and many other traffic rules.

That is a totally subjective view.

In the areas where I drive (2 of the biggest Issan cities) helmet wearing is regularly and strictly enforced specially at the times university students are going to and leaving campuses and around the universities. You could be forgiven for assuming,  if you only drive in the rain and at night, that there is virtually no enforcement, you would be wrong. I have regularly seen 10 to 20 bikes lined up to receive tickets from the BIB.

You could equally assume that there are no speed checks or vehicle checks, there are. Again at night or in the rain you are likely immune, but again I see enough checkpoints to know that laws are enforced, just not with the rigorous zeal of western police forces.

 

But of course if you drive/ride in Nakhon Nowhere you will see 9 year olds riding with 3,4,5 or 6 others on the bike and never see a police officer 

 

Having just driven over 3,000 miles in the U.K. on roads varying from single track with passing places to 8 lane motorways and miles with average speed restricted sections I saw fewer than 0.05% exceeding speed limits, obviously because of the risks of strict enforcement.
With a similar distance of driving in Thailand the percentage is vastly greater due to the risks of getting caught being lower and the penalties being relatively insignificant.

 

TIT YMMV

Edited July 13 by sometimewoodworker

[Lorry]

@Mike Lister

So, the advantage of filing even if not required is, an audit will only go back 3 years,  not 10 (and no 2000 fine).

How many times does one have to have filed to get this advantage?

Just having filed last year is good enough?

3 years? 

10 years? 

 

Edited July 13 by Lorry

[Lorry]

54 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

penalties being relatively insignificant.

Significant for the university students

[Mike Lister]

5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

IMO based upon current TRD 'practice' they dont want 1 or 2 - which does ignore the technical BS literal rules - but that is their decision.

 

Immigration and TRD also do not enforce the Law that states all Foreigners must get a tax clearance certificate before leaving Thailand. 

Immigration does not enforce the literal words in the TM30 Law and many other Laws.

Police do not enforce the rules (much) regarding wearing a helmet - and many other traffic rules.

 

Thailand does not follow the centralised nanny state government process where every single thing they do is written down in a rule or in a  regulation, and where every single person can challenge them if they do anything that is not strictly within those rules and regulations, or challenge them if they do something that is contrary to those rules and regulations.  Compliance with every single literal rule and regulation, and armies of bureaucrats constantly updating and amending those rules and regulations, and another army training all the bureaucrats on any new changes or amendments, is NOT how Thailand operates. That is why in Thailand, the reality is that Officers across all Government positions have full legal autonomy in their interpretation and application of the 'rules'.  TRD has made it clear what they want - they do not want 10s of millions of unneeded tax returns - but they are not going to rewrite the rules - but they can change that at any time - stay tuned folks.

"the reality is that Officers across all Government positions have full legal autonomy in their interpretation and application of the 'rules'". 

 

This implies that Thailand has no legal system and no rule of law.

 

"Thailand’s new prime minister is placing the rule of law at the center of his government’s priorities over the next four years.  Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin announced his government’s commitment earlier this month at the Rule of Law Forum in Bangkok co-hosted by the World Justice Project (WJP), the Thailand Institute of Justice (TIJ), and The Standard news agency".

 

https://worldjusticeproject.org/news/thai-government-announces-rule-law-commitment-during-wjp-hosted-rule-law-forum