Thailand Set to Recriminalise Cannabis Amid Expert Outcry

[Ben Zioner]

Best news this year. Criminalise this toxic stuff.

[bradiston]

13 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Best news this year. Criminalise this toxic stuff.

Make love, not war. Peace brother.

[Ben Zioner]

27 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Make love, not war. Peace brother.

Made love & war in 1973, the best [formative] year of my live.

[herfiehandbag]

This thread is rather conspicuous for many opinions, which paint themselves as "expert", and little evidence.

 

A long time ago, in a rather different universe, I recall hearing "expert" defined as: "ex is a has been, and a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure".

 

Personally, I think that in a society with major ( to a certain extent institutionalised drug abuse) introducing and promoting another source of drugs, especially if it can lead to psychiatric problems, is a good idea. I don't really buy into the school of thought that it is harmless, only giving you the munchies and the giggles! There does seem to be, if not evidence, a lot of concerns amongst the medical profession.

[ChaiyaTH]

So soon everyone has a medical cannabis card aside from a Thai driving license. For those who don't the police now has a little earner and life continues. Exactly as planned and expected, even though, they say they don't know. Happy to pay 5K bribes for the rare case I would get checked.

[ChaiyaTH]

13 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

This thread is rather conspicuous for many opinions, which paint themselves as "expert", and little evidence.

 

A long time ago, in a rather different universe, I recall hearing "expert" defined as: "ex is a has been, and a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure".

 

Personally, I think that in a society with major ( to a certain extent institutionalised drug abuse) introducing and promoting another source of drugs, especially if it can lead to psychiatric problems, is a good idea. I don't really buy into the school of thought that it is harmless, only giving you the munchies and the giggles! There does seem to be, if not evidence, a lot of concerns amongst the medical profession.

What I wrote above is actually what the cannabis business owners been working on together with those related to Anutin etc since the start. Somehow it is just entirely unclear with the government but it steers in the right direction anyway. Just sucks they make the news as if it all goes away.

 

However this guy called Bear, which apparently was the bridge between the 2, died in April this year suddenly of a heart attack. I'm not sure but I think he was a relate of Anutin.

[Gecko123]

Those hoping that this legislation will not be enacted or, if enacted, that enforcement will be lax, need to consider China's influence on Thailand's current government. Not only is cannabis consumption viewed as a youth corrupting and decadence inducing activity by China, but it is also seen as encouraging Western values at a time when China is working hard to increase its cultural and economic influence in SE Asia. Thailand's cannabis legalization also provided Chinese tourists with an opportunity to experiment with cannabis while on vacation and had the potential for encouraging cannabis use in China and other SE Asian countries. I strongly suspect that China sees Thailand's cannabis legalization as a poorly thought out attempt at populist political grandstanding by Anutin and that they are firmly in favor of tightly restricting its use only to cases where its medical efficacy is well-established, if not completely recriminalizing it with no medical use exceptions.

 

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Those hoping that this legislation will not be enacted or if enacted that enforcement will be lax need to consider China's influence on Thailand's current government. Not only is cannabis consumption viewed as a youth corrupting and decadence inducing activity by China, but it is also seen as encouraging Western values at a time when China is working hard to increase its cultural and economic influence in SE Asia. Thailand's cannabis legalization also provided Chinese tourists with an opportunity to experiment with cannabis while on vacation and had the potential for encouraging cannabis use in China and other SE Asian countries. I strongly suspect that China sees Thailand's cannabis legalization as a poorly thought out attempt at political grandstanding by Anutin and that they are firmly in favor of tightly restricting its use to cases where its medical efficacy is well-established. 

Absolute nonsense, the Chinese would already get their hands on stuff all the time, ever been to my hometown Amsterdam? Let me guess, you are American? This stuff can hardly come from another nationality than that.

[Gecko123]

7 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Absolute nonsense, the Chinese would already get their hands on stuff all the time, ever been to my hometown Amsterdam? Let me guess, you are American? This stuff can hardly come from another nationality than that.

 

Dude, I'm just telling you what I think China's views on decriminalization are and suggesting that geopolitics may be playing a role in the rollback decision making. I am American, but what you think my nationality has to do with this is beyond me. I don't know why you're so upset. If smoking weed is so important to you, you can always go back to Amsterdam, can't you?

[nobodysfriend]

Expert Outcry ...

 

And me , I always thought that being stupid does not hurt ... Apparently , it does .

Let them cry ...

[stoner]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Nobody pro-recreational use got in the driving seat and said how the system could be tightened up to address concerns, and importantly, taxed & controlled.

 

sure they did. nobody wanted to listen. kitty for one is a huge advocate. loads of people in the industry who are very outspoken. 

 

i worked with many people in the industry at all levels who spoke about the things you mention. met with government officials and medical staff alike. canada has done a pretty decent job of controlling the industry on those very concerns as well. wouldn't be hard to hire people to model the thai market in a similar way. 

 

[oldscool]

On 5/25/2024 at 6:55 AM, fondue zoo said:

If they think they are getting a piece of the international medical Maryjane market they are going to be disappointed, too late, too slow, too much nonsense.

 

Maybe, but when you factor in the growth of the international medicinal market and Thailand's huge farming sector and low cost base there's no reason why Thailand shouldn't get a slice of the market.

 

And the market is likely to increase a lot as more countries legalise medicinal use, and an increasing number  of medicinal applications are approved.

 

But I don't think it will ever replace rice as an export!

[dinsdale]

14 hours ago, AustinRacing said:

Those local entrepreneurs are engaged in illegal activity selling it to anyone. It affects not just the lungs as tobacco does. Easy to determine health implications. How about decriminalizing meth and cocaine as business opportunities are also great. 

Good idea. All drugs should be decrimilised. This is very forward thinking of you. Yes I do realize your context is "anti" but you obviously support drug bosses and imprisonment. I don't. Recriminalisation WILL benefit the drug bosses and corrupt officials and WILL lead to increased prison populations.

[dinsdale]

11 hours ago, riclag said:

My 2 international friends assured me last night at a party that  Thailand has been saying such things for years and nothing will become of it!

Why I asked?

Replied,Because there’s to much money involved !

So carry on .

Your right. There is too much money involved and those who were making it before when it was illegal now want it back.

[dinsdale]

57 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Those hoping that this legislation will not be enacted or, if enacted, that enforcement will be lax, need to consider China's influence on Thailand's current government. Not only is cannabis consumption viewed as a youth corrupting and decadence inducing activity by China, but it is also seen as encouraging Western values at a time when China is working hard to increase its cultural and economic influence in SE Asia. Thailand's cannabis legalization also provided Chinese tourists with an opportunity to experiment with cannabis while on vacation and had the potential for encouraging cannabis use in China and other SE Asian countries. I strongly suspect that China sees Thailand's cannabis legalization as a poorly thought out attempt at populist political grandstanding by Anutin and that they are firmly in favor of tightly restricting its use only to cases where its medical efficacy is well-established, if not completely recriminalizing it with no medical use exceptions.

 

I can't agree with this. It's Thaksin not the CCP.

[Yagoda]

Even more reason to live in  Cambodia

[dinsdale]

Obviously completely off topic but I wonder if anyone has any ideas. I'm only on this page through view all notifications button. I haven't been able to access the forum since yesterday. I sent a message yesterday. This is what I'm seeing. Again oviously I can still post and react but only on this page.

[Moncul]

On 5/25/2024 at 7:15 AM, Henryford said:

It was obvious from the start that turning Thailand's youth into a bunch of stoners was not a good idea. You don't need to be an "expert" to work that one out.

Yes, much better that they are alcoholics with all the mayhem that causes.

When they recommend restricting alcohol to medical purposes only, I'll take these so-called experts' views with more than a pinch of salt.

[Moncul]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Best news this year. Criminalise this toxic stuff.

Yes, and criminalise alcohol while you're at it then. Much worse.

[bradiston]

43 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Obviously completely off topic but I wonder if anyone has any ideas. I'm only on this page through view all notifications button. I haven't been able to access the forum since yesterday. I sent a message yesterday. This is what I'm seeing. Again oviously I can still post and react but only on this page.

Yes, it came up over about 3 hours for me too, yesterday. Now back to normal. But often horrendously slow connection times, especially to Notifications. Screen just displays nothing and no progress bar. I reboot and after it improves. I think it may be a caching problem.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Made love & war in 1973, the best [formative] year of my live.

Well, somebody agrees with you. So right now, is war giving you a hard on? How utterly bizarre. Is it a Jewish thing?

[dinsdale]

11 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Yes, it came up over about 3 hours for me too, yesterday. Now back to normal. But often horrendously slow connection times, especially to Notifications. Screen just displays nothing and no progress bar. I reboot and after it improves. I think it may be a caching problem.

Yeh. I cleared the cache, logged out and in again and it was back up. Cheers.

[Ben Zioner]

7 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Well, somebody agrees with you. So right now, is war giving you a hard on? How utterly bizarre. Is it a Jewish thing?

Did I ask you what gives you a hard on? Yet there is the possibility that you have gone soft beyond repair.

[Cereal]

Thailand could have rolled out the decriminalisation of weed with less thought and planning I suppose. I don't see how, but in theory they could have screwed it up more. 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, stoner said:

 

sure they did. nobody wanted to listen. kitty for one is a huge advocate. loads of people in the industry who are very outspoken. 

 

i worked with many people in the industry at all levels who spoke about the things you mention. met with government officials and medical staff alike. canada has done a pretty decent job of controlling the industry on those very concerns as well. wouldn't be hard to hire people to model the thai market in a similar way. 

 

Then they have failed in the PR war.  All I have heard is it’s no problem, it doesn’t harm anybody.

 

I’ve not heard anything about how it could be tightened up, all the stakeholders could have united around an agreed action plan and won in the court of public opinion.

[oldscool]

In Thailand medicinal use for THC less than 0.2% was what was legislated for, recreational use was a grey area or black hole. So, despite the fact that I used to use it off and on, this whole debate is pointless: recreational weed was never legalised, as I've quoted from Anutin himself before.

 

And yes, there are health risks, some substantial, from Psychology Today, despite the benefits of medicinal use...

 

"The cons (for recreational use), however, are significant, especially in adolescents and young adults. Much research, including a recent study out of New Zealand, concluded that for those who begin to use marijuana regularly in their early teens, there can be long-term memory impairment with a lowering of IQ, poor job and academic performance, and greater risk of depression later on in adulthood. Individuals from traumatic backgrounds are at higher risk of developing this pattern and are four to seven times more likely to become dependent on alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs.

Additionally, marijuana use can cause increased impulsiveness, impaired driving ability, heightened anxiety, paranoia, and apathy. Probably due to the higher potency of THC in marijuana today compared to the 1960s, there is a greater risk of it triggering psychosis, even in those without a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia."

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/collaborative-care-and-psychiatry/202112/marijuanas-mental-health-pros-and-cons

 

 

 

[dinsdale]

20 minutes ago, oldscool said:

In Thailand medicinal use for THC less than 0.2% was what was legislated for, recreational use was a grey area or black hole. So, despite the fact that I used to use it off and on, this whole debate is pointless: recreational weed was never legalised, as I've quoted from Anutin himself before.

 

And yes, there are health risks, some substantial, from Psychology Today, despite the benefits of medicinal use...

 

"The cons (for recreational use), however, are significant, especially in adolescents and young adults. Much research, including a recent study out of New Zealand, concluded that for those who begin to use marijuana regularly in their early teens, there can be long-term memory impairment with a lowering of IQ, poor job and academic performance, and greater risk of depression later on in adulthood. Individuals from traumatic backgrounds are at higher risk of developing this pattern and are four to seven times more likely to become dependent on alcohol, marijuana, and other drugs.

Additionally, marijuana use can cause increased impulsiveness, impaired driving ability, heightened anxiety, paranoia, and apathy. Probably due to the higher potency of THC in marijuana today compared to the 1960s, there is a greater risk of it triggering psychosis, even in those without a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia."

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/collaborative-care-and-psychiatry/202112/marijuanas-mental-health-pros-and-cons

 

 

 

Well you posted the cons but oddly failed to post the postives so here they are from the same article.

Positive Effects

Since ancient times, marijuana has been taken for its medicinal and euphoric effects. We know that it has a powerful anti-inflammatory effect, which can help with pain relief.

Its other medical uses include reducing nausea for cancer patients on chemotherapy and possible relief for those suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), multiple sclerosis (MS), glaucoma, HIV/AIDS, and some forms of epilepsy. There is even some early research by neuroscientist Gary Wenk suggesting that marijuana could help prevent memory loss in aging by reducing inflammation in the brain.

Some of my psychiatric patients used it to treat their insomnia, anxiety, and depression with varying success; in some, it actually exacerbated their condition. Additionally, marijuana has been known to “expand consciousness,” leading to an enhanced appreciation of the simple pleasures in life (listening to music, enjoying good food, and being out in nature). Marijuana use has increased by 75 percent in the over-65 population in just the last three years. Many of these people had used pot in the 60s or 70s and are now seeking help with chronic medical conditions and the anxiety that comes along with aging.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/collaborative-care-and-psychiatry/202112/marijuanas-mental-health-pros-and-cons

 

[oldscool]

21 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Well you posted the cons but oddly failed to post the positives so here they are from the same article.

Actually I did reference the positives, but not itemise them, as in "despite the positives", and supplied the link for interested readers. There were 3 reasons for not itemising them:

 

1. The quote would have been too long.

2. Many tokers here claim to be unaware of the negatives, so it's a good idea to spell them out.

3. The medicinal benefits are overwhelmingly, but  not exclusively, from low THC products that stoners wouldn't be interested in, therefore not especially relevant to a discussion on the health benefits of recreational weed.

 

Apart from any of that, Anutin himself was and is clear about the intention for medicinal use only. It was poorly thought out decriminalization that is being rectified, that's all.

 

In one of my first posts here a couple of years ago I posted that this was inevitable, based on what senior people in the health dept had told me. All the baloney about Thaksin being behind it is paranoia, another symptom of weed abuse.

 

I understand that the long-term users - retirees and tourists - here wouldn't be at the sharp end of the health problems, but the Thai youth in particular would be, and as my quote makes clear, mental health problems associated with recreational weed at a young age can be severe and irreversible.

 

[bobbin]

46 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Then they have failed in the PR war.  All I have heard is it’s no problem, it doesn’t harm anybody.

 

I’ve not heard anything about how it could be tightened up, all the stakeholders could have united around an agreed action plan and won in the court of public opinion.

Not very many products that we humans consume comes with no risk/harm. Can we start from there? Cannabis, with it's widespread use, would have exhibited severe harmful effects by now if they were evident..

 

You have, in past posts on this topic, referred to your experience as a Magistrate in the UK. As such, you were tasked with enforcing a law which you had no part in making, and you fulfilled that task to the best of your ability. But times and laws change. Consider the number of law enforcement officials who have had to adjust to the increasing legalization around the world. They no longer have a dog in the fight. They may still have negative opinions about cannabis but it's no longer their concern. It's a social issue and public perceptions regarding harm are changing..

 

Might I suggest that instead of trying to roll back the clock, you sit back and watch how things play out.. Alcohol, while perfectly legal, except for Muslim countries, is well regulated and offers a framework.. The difference is however that while most users are responsible, many are not. Alcohol has demonstrable downsides. Family violence, traffic deaths etc. Yet bars are everywhere and it is for sale openly. Cannabis does not have this baggage.

 

The issue is that Government needs to make sure that they are receiving their cut. VAT revenue, tax revenue from successful cannabis businesses.. Some jurisdictions have some of this revenue "ring fenced" as windfall income reserved for schools, sport facilities, even support for other social ills. This, in my opinion, is a reasonable direction to be looking. Not trying to extend the lifespan of failed policies..

[Marco100]

What happens to the people who have invested and work in the market ? Production & Distribution & Shops ?

Oooops we made a mistake . Now you can sell Alcohol & Cigarette & Cigars ...

Just asking for a friend .