Reduction in number of NON-Immigrant visa types from Sep 2024

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/30/2024 at 3:56 PM, oldcpu said:

 

The LTR visa is not a non-immigrant visa.

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Of course the LTR is an Non-Immigrant Visa, only PR & Citizenship would be considered "Immigrant" 

 

[connda]

  On 5/30/2024 at 3:42 AM, MJCM said:

I wonder with all these changes what more is going to happen 🤔

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Nothing good.

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/30/2024 at 11:48 AM, Srikcir said:

Where is the non-immigrant Long Term Resident visa?

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I would guess that it would be included in (5) Category Non-Immigrant Code O (Others) 

 

Thai Elite visas are classed as "Tourist" visas for the purpose of immigration 

[connda]

  On 5/30/2024 at 4:58 AM, John Drake said:

My extension for purposes of retirement has a Non-Imm B as the underlying visa. So where will that stand in all these changes?

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Mine too.  The year that they required insurance for Non-OA, the IO at my immigration office was literally rubbing his hands together, "You come on Non-OA so need insurance!" <snicker snicker snicker>  The guy was literally smiling.

I pointed out in the passport that I came in on a Non-Imm B, worked for three years, and then went on extensions based on marriage.  So the underlying visa is still a Non-Imm B.  I've no plans on leaving, and Immigration and the Thai government in general seems much more friendly to those on Non-Imm B visas anyway.  Why change?

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:12 AM, connda said:

Mine too.  The year that they required insurance for Non-OA, the IO at my immigration office was literally rubbing his hands together, "You come on Non-OA so need insurance!" <snicker snicker snicker>  The guy was literally smiling.

I pointed out in the passport that I came in on a Non-Imm B, worked for three years, and then went on extensions based on marriage.  So the underlying visa is still a Non-Imm B.  I've no plans on leaving, and Immigration and the Thai government in general seems much more friendly to those on Non-Imm B visas anyway.  Why change?

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Your "Stay" is based on your extension not your original Visa so if you were originally on a Non-IMM B & extended on the grounds of being married to a Thai then you would be considered as staying under a Non-IMM O Marriage.

 

It's impossible to change to a Non-IMM OA without leaving the country to get that visa & even then, guys who live here on a Non-IMM OA Marriage don't need Health Insurance.

 

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:07 AM, connda said:

Nothing good.

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That's my fear, I would much rather they just left things as they were or at least commit to "Grandfathering In" people who have lived in Thailand for many years. 

 

It's easy for me to say "I'm all right Jack" as I'm in my 50s & already have Health Insurance but guys who have lived here for 20+ years & are now in their 70s would find it really difficult/expensive/impossible to get it if it became a requirement. 

 

Unfortunately the last time they did this (To the Non-IMM OA holders) they didn't "Grandfather In" existing holders so the track record isn't looking good.

 

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:05 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Of course the LTR is an Non-Immigrant Visa, only PR & Citizenship would be considered "Immigrant" 

 

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Seems some people are easily confused or believe that the LTR is not a Non-Immigrant Visa... 

Non-Immigrant Visa

This is normally a single-entry visa into Thailand that’s valid for 90 days. Depending on the type of Non-Immigrant visa you can also get a work permit and open a bank account.

This visa can be extended to a long-term visa, depending on the type of Non-Immigrant Visa you apply for.

Depending on the purpose of stay, there are various types of Non-Immigrant Visas available from Thai embassies and consulates or at the immigration, some including:

1. Non-B Business Visa
2. Non-O Retirement Visa
3. Non-O Marriage Visa
4. Non-B Investment Visa
5. Long-Term Residence Visa

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thailand-visa-types

 

 

 

 

 

[khunjeff]

  On 5/31/2024 at 5:56 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Seems some people are easily confused or believe that the LTR is not a Non-Immigrant Visa... 

Non-Immigrant Visa

This is normally a single-entry visa into Thailand that’s valid for 90 days. Depending on the type of Non-Immigrant visa you can also get a work permit and open a bank account.

This visa can be extended to a long-term visa, depending on the type of Non-Immigrant Visa you apply for.

Depending on the purpose of stay, there are various types of Non-Immigrant Visas available from Thai embassies and consulates or at the immigration, some including:

1. Non-B Business Visa
2. Non-O Retirement Visa
3. Non-O Marriage Visa
4. Non-B Investment Visa
5. Long-Term Residence Visa

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thailand-visa-types

 

 

 

 

 

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"Thaiembassy.com" is not a Thai government website, and routinely contains inaccurate information.

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:33 AM, khunjeff said:

 

"Thaiembassy.com" is not a Thai government website, and routinely contains inaccurate information.

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Then maybe somebody could post a redacted picture of their LTR & we’ll see if it has “Non Immigrant” on it. 
 

Or simply look up the definition of “Immigrant” 

 

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

Nothing permanent about a 10 year visa. 

[Pattaya57]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:39 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Then maybe somebody could post a redacted picture of their LTR & we’ll see if it has “Non Immigrant” on it. 
 

Or simply look up the definition of “Immigrant” 

 

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

Nothing permanent about a 10 year visa. 

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This is getting silly now. By your understanding that would make 60 day tourist visa a non-immigrant visa. 

 

Thai cabinet was talking about reducing 17 non-immigrant visa categories to 7. That is "non-immigrant" is in the title of the visa

[Mike Teavee]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:46 AM, Pattaya57 said:

This is getting silly now. By your understanding that would make 60 day tourist visa a non-immigrant visa. 

 

Thai cabinet was talking about reducing 17 non-immigrant visa categories to 7. That is "non-immigrant" is in the title of the visa

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I take your point.

 

I was answering to the point that an LTR (& a Tourist Visa for that matter) are technically "Non-Immigrant" Visas as they don't bestow permanent residency (i.e. you cannot become an Immigrant on one) but in terms of this context then yeah, it's probably not on their list of 17 being reduced to 7, whereas the OX "Retirement" visa (which is the same 5+5 years visa) is on the list. 

 

Still curious to see one though if somebody could post a pic (redacting their personal details obviously).

[Enoon]

 

How about current categories are merely being re-grouped under different headings?

 

Fewer individually identified main categories, but several previously individually identified now become sub-categories?

 

Noting more than re-labelling/paper shuffling?

 

😄

 

[Presnock]

  On 5/30/2024 at 4:06 AM, LosLobo said:

I hope there will be some encouragement for Imm to go easier on long-term visa applicants in general.

From reports and my personal experience things seemed easier past years.

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Actually, doing the yearly extension requirement for ret-O in CM just became easier the last few years.  Previously some folks even got in the queue-ticket line to get a queue ticketg for the same day by getting in line between midnight and 4:AM.  Previously had to get an Embassy letter for validation of pension funds - not free either and had to make an appointment etc so with just getting the bank letters, the cost decreased too and didn't have to go to embassy/consulate at all.  Just saying as it became much easier for me and I had been doing those extensions for 15 years before it got better.

[OJAS]

  On 5/30/2024 at 1:28 PM, didi said:

I think this is not the correct description. It sounds like this applies to applications between September and December only!

This change to the Non-O-A will be implemented between Septermber and December 2024.

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That's more or less what I said, I think.

 

[OJAS]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:41 AM, Mike Teavee said:

or at least commit to "Grandfathering In" people who have lived in Thailand for many years. 

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That went out of the window in 2019 with the introduction of mandatory health insurance for OA visa holders past and present.

 

[Maestro]

  On 5/30/2024 at 1:28 PM, didi said:

I think this is not the correct description. It sounds like this applies to applications between September and December only!

This change to the Non-O-A will be implemented between Septermber and December 2024.

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I don't read it as being in force only for a limited period of four months, but we have to wait and see the official announcement in the Royal Gazette.

 

It would be interesting to see the Thai text for what has been translated or interpreted as "This change to the Non-O-A will be implemented between September and December 2024", particularly the word "implemented" as you have highlighted. On the basis of currently available information I take it to mean that the change will be put into force sometime between September and December and from that point forward will remain in force until it is changed again.

 

[Maestro]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:39 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Then maybe somebody could post a redacted picture of their LTR & we’ll see if it has “Non Immigrant” on it. 
 

Or simply look up the definition of “Immigrant” 

 

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country

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A dictionary definition won't do for Thailand's visas.

 

Basically, in Thailand, an immigrant is the holder of a certificate of Permanent Residence, what we call a Permanent Resident on the this forum. This permanence ends when he leaves Thailand and if he wants to return to Thailand with the intention of resuming his immigrant status, he must, before his departure, apply at his immigration office for a non-quota immigrant visa valid for one ore multiple return entries into Thailand within the validity period of the visa.

 

Non-immigrants are all foreigners who are not immigrants, some of whom have a non-immigrant visa, depending on the purpose of their trip to Thailand or the rason for their stay in Thailand.

[Misty]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:39 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Then maybe somebody could post a redacted picture of their LTR & we’ll see if it has “Non Immigrant” on it. 
 

Or simply look up the definition of “Immigrant” 

 

a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country.

 

Nothing permanent about a 10 year visa. 

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Mike I've checked both my old LTR e-visa from 2022 (a paper copy all in English from NY consulate) as well as the new LTR HSP visa stamp in my passport from this year.  Neither says anything about "Non Immigrant". 

 

But my old Nonimmigrant B visa stamp did say "Non Imm."  So clearly that was Non Immigrant, according to Thai Immigration. I would say the LTR program isn't the same.

 

So a rose by any other name?

 

Note that PR isn't necessarily "permanent" despite its name. If you stay outside of Thailand for more than a year, it gets cancelled as we saw happened to some unfortunate folks during the pandemic.  An LTR visa wouldn't have been cancelled in the same circumstances. So LTR could be more "permanent" than PR.

[khunjeff]

  On 5/31/2024 at 6:59 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Still curious to see one though if somebody could post a pic (redacting their personal details obviously).

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No mention of "Non" or "Non-immigrant" at all. 

 

[oldcpu]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:19 PM, Misty said:

 

Mike I've checked both my old LTR e-visa from 2022 (a paper copy all in English from NY consulate) as well as the new LTR HSP visa stamp in my passport from this year.  Neither says anything about "Non Immigrant". 

 

But my old Nonimmigrant B visa stamp did say "Non Imm."  So clearly that was Non Immigrant, according to Thai Immigration. I would say the LTR program isn't the same.

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I agree.

 

Further my old Type-O visa clearly states "NON-IMMIGRANT VISA" stamped at the very top of the stamp (and as noted, the LTR visa has no such reference to 'non-immigrant' ) .  My 'wealthy pensioner' LTR visa has "LTR" stamped with a hand written "P" afterward - to make it "LTR P".    NO WHERE dose it have a stamp nor hand written words stating "Non-immigrant".

 

Given other visas (such as NON-IMMIGRANT-B, and NON-IMMIGRANT-O clearly have "NON-IMMIGRANT" stamped on the visa, one would think they would do the same, if they wanted LTR visa to be included in the same booking keeping category as "NON-IMMIGRANT".  However they did not include such a stamp on the LTR Visa.

 

I agree that as noted elsewhere on this thread, the Thai immigration visa implementations of Non-Immigrant and Resident don't necessary  match the dictionary definitions of the same terms. 

 

I won't go into 'tax definitions' of 'resident' as that opens a massive kettle of fish and not directly relevant to this thread, other than to note that one simply can not go by the dictionary definitions of resident and non-immigrant, in considering how Thailand has chosen to group its different visa categories.

 

[Highlandman]

  On 5/31/2024 at 3:19 PM, Misty said:

 

Mike I've checked both my old LTR e-visa from 2022 (a paper copy all in English from NY consulate) as well as the new LTR HSP visa stamp in my passport from this year.  Neither says anything about "Non Immigrant". 

 

But my old Nonimmigrant B visa stamp did say "Non Imm."  So clearly that was Non Immigrant, according to Thai Immigration. I would say the LTR program isn't the same.

 

So a rose by any other name?

 

Note that PR isn't necessarily "permanent" despite its name. If you stay outside of Thailand for more than a year, it gets cancelled as we saw happened to some unfortunate folks during the pandemic.  An LTR visa wouldn't have been cancelled in the same circumstances. So LTR could be more "permanent" than PR.

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Nonsense.. 

 

What proof do you have an LTR visa wouldn't have been canceled under those circumstances?

 

A PR visa is permanent but it's for residing within Thailand. Nearly all countries cancel permanent residency visas if the holder spends an extended period (usually 1 year or more) outside of the country.

 

Thailand PR holders stuck outside of Thailand during Covid restrictions found their PR status was extended to allow them to come back later, I think they had 2 years rather than the usual 1 year.

 

An LTR visa isn't permanent and does NOT provide a pathway to residency or citizenship. 

[Misty]

  On 6/6/2024 at 12:16 PM, Highlandman said:

 

Nonsense.. 

 

What proof do you have an LTR visa wouldn't have been canceled under those circumstances?

 

A PR visa is permanent but it's for residing within Thailand. Nearly all countries cancel permanent residency visas if the holder spends an extended period (usually 1 year or more) outside of the country.

 

Thailand PR holders stuck outside of Thailand during Covid restrictions found their PR status was extended to allow them to come back later, I think they had 2 years rather than the usual 1 year.

 

An LTR visa isn't permanent and does NOT provide a pathway to residency or citizenship. 

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LTR is not permanent, but nor is PR. However, LTR visa does not require the recipient to return to Thailand every year. The PR does.

 

 

[Aurelien]

link to any official article about this? can't find anything & the links from this thread aren't working...

[Maestro]

  On 6/9/2024 at 4:53 AM, Aurelien said:

link to any official article about this? can't find anything & the links from this thread aren't working...

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There is this on 

https://thailand.prd.go.th/en/content/category/detail/id/48/iid/293120

 

  Quote

1) Grouping and streamlining non-immigrant visa types;

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Not much, I'm afraid.

 

[Highlandman]

  On 6/7/2024 at 5:57 AM, Misty said:

 

LTR is not permanent, but nor is PR. However, LTR visa does not require the recipient to return to Thailand every year. The PR does.

 

 

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Permanent residency IS permanent.

 

It's designed for residents of Thailand, not for people to obtain and then live abroad. Duh!

 

Whereas an LTR visa is more like a glorified tourist visa or a mix of a restricted work/investor visa + privilege visa all rolled into one.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Is there a list of the 10 visas they scrap?

[george]

  On 6/10/2024 at 4:25 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is there a list of the 10 visas they scrap?

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A list of all existing NON categories was posted earlier in this thread.

[Misty]

  On 6/10/2024 at 4:18 AM, Highlandman said:

 

Permanent residency IS permanent.

 

It's designed for residents of Thailand, not for people to obtain and then live abroad. Duh!

 

Whereas an LTR visa is more like a glorified tourist visa or a mix of a restricted work/investor visa + privilege visa all rolled into one.

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And back to the original point, that LTR is not a NonImm visa.  That was what we were talking about.

[Highlandman]

  On 6/10/2024 at 5:13 AM, Misty said:

 

And back to the original point, that LTR is not a NonImm visa.  That was what we were talking about.

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Of course the LTR is a non-immigrant visa! It's certainly not an immigrant visa and offers no pathway to citizenship or permanent residency.

[Pattaya57]

  On 6/10/2024 at 11:47 AM, Highlandman said:

 

Of course the LTR is a non-immigrant visa! It's certainly not an immigrant visa and offers no pathway to citizenship or permanent residency.

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Did you even read the thread. This is covered already that the thread is about visa's with non-immigrant in the title. Not a dictionary definition of non-immigrant which we all already know.