Western Liberals: How Do You Justify Your Stay in Thailand?

[kevozman1]

So I notice on these boards a number of people hailing from the West bringing their liberal talking points to Thailand, but still being very scathing of where they came from regarding human rights and the general level of acceptance of 'various groups' the West has from the State to the people. This wouldn't present a problem to me, if not for the obvious hypocrisy. For instance it seems unchecked migration into Western Europe is fine, but the same people will remind you that you are a migrant/expat/tourist in Thailand. When it comes to sexual relations, female employment opportunities, transsexuals and gender identity, both Thailand and the Western world are somewhat aligned, so being an honest person I will not argue on those points.

 

Ok then lets look further. Immigration options are heavily restricted for foreigners in Thailand. Employment options are lowered to 'jobs that Thai people cannot fill', a stark contrast to migrants in the West who cannot be discriminated against and have the same rights as life long citizens on arrival, and in some cases are favoured for employment opportunities. Now let's look into citizenship. For someone born in Thailand for them to obtain automatic citizenship at least one of their parents must be a Thai citizen. In every western country I know of, citizenship is available on birth. Again Thailand is showing a much more right wing society that these Western liberals have voluntarily migrated to. Obtaining citizenship as a migrant, in Thailand this is quite rare. In the Western world it is very common. Again exposing a much more right wing country these Western liberals are deciding to reside in. Then we look at the patriarchy. In Western Liberalism 'equality' has been preached for decades, and at this point if anything women have more rights then men when it comes to certain situations in the legal system. In Thailand whilst women have as many opportunities in the workforce as Western women do respectively in their society (and actually Thai women are more instrumental and integral to their society than Western women are to theirs, something I give huge props to Thai women over) Thai men still wear the trousers in a household. They are the boss, In the West it's the State who is the boss. Yet more inconsistencies of a Western liberal choosing to move to a country such as Thailand. Domestic violence, this is actually somewhat accepted in Thai society, it's very common. A wife being beaten on a street corner by her boyfriend/husband is unlikely to be stopped, nevermind if it's happening behind closed curtains. Certainly not in the West, domestic voiolece has been clamped down on for decades... Anyway I think people who have integrity and a brain know what I am pointing at with these points. 

 

I am not condemning Thailand, I actually like the country and people overall and have done for a long time, and whilst I don't like certain aspects of Thai society, being right wing I am definitely more compatible with Thailand than a Western Liberal will ever be to the point where I know without large doses of hypocrisy you cannot exist in Thailand. So how do you guys cope? Denial? Low IQ? Sheer sociopathy? Maybe you guys are just lost? Explain.

[BritManToo]

Don't care about the government, only care about the house prices!

It's all about me ...... me, me, me, me , me!

[Celsius]

5 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

So I notice on these boards a number of people hailing from the West bringing their liberal talking points to Thailand, but still being very scathing of where they came from regarding human rights and the general level of acceptance of 'various groups' the West has from the State to the people. This wouldn't present a problem to me, if not for the obvious hypocrisy. For instance it seems unchecked migration into Western Europe is fine, but the same people will remind you that you are a migrant/expat/tourist in Thailand. When it comes to sexual relations, female employment opportunities, transsexuals and gender identity, both Thailand and the Western world are somewhat aligned, so being an honest person I will not argue on those points.

 

Ok then lets look further. Immigration options are heavily restricted for foreigners in Thailand. Employment options are lowered to 'jobs that Thai people cannot fill', a stark contrast to migrants in the West who cannot be discriminated against and have the same rights as life long citizens on arrival, and in some cases are favoured for employment opportunities. Now let's look into citizenship. For someone born in Thailand for them to obtain automatic citizenship at least one of their parents must be a Thai citizen. In every western country I know of, citizenship is available on birth. Again Thailand is showing a much more right wing society that these Western liberals have voluntarily migrated to. Obtaining citizenship as a migrant, in Thailand this is quite rare. In the Western world it is very common. Again exposing a much more right wing country these Western liberals are deciding to reside in. Then we look at the patriarchy. In Western Liberalism 'equality' has been preached for decades, and at this point if anything women have more rights then men when it comes to certain situations in the legal system. In Thailand whilst women have as many opportunities in the workforce as Western women do respectively in their society (and actually Thai women are more instrumental and integral to their society than Western women are to theirs, something I give huge props to Thai women over) Thai men still wear the trousers in a household. They are the boss, In the West it's the State who is the boss. Yet more inconsistencies of a Western liberal choosing to move to a country such as Thailand. Domestic violence, this is actually somewhat accepted in Thai society, it's very common. A wife being beaten on a street corner by her boyfriend/husband is unlikely to be stopped, nevermind if it's happening behind closed curtains. Certainly not in the West, domestic voiolece has been clamped down on for decades... Anyway I think people who have integrity and a brain know what I am pointing at with these points. 

 

I am not condemning Thailand, I actually like the country and people overall and have done for a long time, and whilst I don't like certain aspects of Thai society, being right wing I am definitely more compatible with Thailand than a Western Liberal will ever be to the point where I know without large doses of hypocrisy you cannot exist in Thailand. So how do you guys cope? Denial? Low IQ? Sheer sociopathy? Maybe you guys are just lost? Explain.

 

Are you American? Why does everything to "you people" have to be left or right?

 

You can not think for yourselves?

[scubascuba3]

TLTR

[novacova]

4 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

Thailand is showing a much more right wing society that these Western liberals have voluntarily migrated to.

The irony of a western leftist hooking up a right wing religious Thai has always been a bit peculiar from this perspective. Personally it’s obvious that the western left just hates their own kind if they don’t follow suit.

9 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

how do you guys cope? Denial? Low IQ? Sheer sociopathy? Maybe you guys are just lost?

All the above 

9 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

Explain

They rationally cannot.

[digbeth]

12 minutes ago, kevozman1 said:

In every western country I know of, citizenship is available on birth

 

Only Canada and US, 

Most of the countries got rid of 'Jus Soli' right to citizenship from just being born on the land in the 70s and 80s

most of Europe and Australia requires residency from one of the parents, or that the child born stay in the country until certain age to be allowed citizenship

 

Thailand put similar restrictions on due to the amount of Myanmar 'anchor babies' 

 

but to be fair a lot of migrant workers from Myanmar has made a life of their own here, family, but their jobs would never pay enough for them to be on permanent residency or citizenship

[OneMoreFarang]

Your post and questions seem to be real - so let me try.

 

Many of us, including myself, look at our individual situation. 

I came to Thailand because I didn't like it much in my home country in central Europe and after I made holiday in Thailand and some research I moved to Thailand.

My reasons to move were, in no particular order: The weather, many mostly young and friendly people in Thailand compared to many old and unhappy people at home. I like the look of Thai girls (often petite, brown, small) a lot more than most western girls. And I like when girls are feminine and not feminists like in "the west". I earn enough money in Thailand to live in comfort, life in the middle of the city, go to nice restaurants, etc. At home my income was also good. But life was a lot more expensive.

I could go on and on. But did you notice what I didn't mention? Politics. And I didn't mention left or rightwing attitudes, and anyhow there is a lot what just doesn't fit into left and right thinking.

I am sure in every country are conservative people and progressives and more extreme and somewhere in the middle. We all can find people who are similar to us in ways which are important to us.

So, for me, my move had little to nothing to do with what you write.

 

And let's assume for a moment a person moves to a conservative country. Why? Option one, is to fit in with likeminded people. Option two is to play missionary and tell those others about the way they should live their life. I.e. I saw a preacher on the street outside of Nana. I am sure he didn't go to that place because he wanted to be entertained and he didn't go because he thought just like all the other people in that area.

We do what we do because we are motivated by whatever reasons. And for each individual the reasons might be very different.

[digbeth]

As a farang, you'd rarely come into contact with the wrong side of right wing thai policies?

most of the things moaned about here are:

- no alcohol days?

- restrictive immigration policy, yet you're here in droves what makes you put up with the 90day run around - couldn't afford to live elsewhere? 

- not being able to own land

for those that can afford to come here they'd have enough money that these minor inconvenience shouldn't be a problem 

[moe666]

I have no need to justify my stay in Thailand other than that I enjoy being here

[Gottfrid]

Justify my stay in Thailand? What does that mean? Do I need a reason? Why has that to do with liberal or conservative? You don´t have those kinds of problem to dwell over if you stay in a foreign country without the right to vote. Where did you come up with all this crap? I guess my given visa will justify my stay in Thailand on the legal side. Moreover, I moved here because I like it. After that, I also have a wonderful wife and two kids after staying many years. This will be some of the reasons for many of us here. Is that justification enough?

Edited June 12 by Gottfrid

[Jingthing]

I have no idea what the point is of this topic.

As an expat here not an immigrant I try to know all the rules pertaining to my situation and then to follow them. To stay out of trouble not as commentary on Thai politics.

 

 

[HappyExpat57]

3 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

Are you American? Why does everything to "you people" have to be left or right?

 

You can not think for yourselves?

The first two words of the topic are just setting up for a political fight - no debate, just angry arguments. NOT taking this bait.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

The first two words of the topic are just setting up for a political fight - no debate, just angry arguments. NOT taking this bait.

 Yeah it's just a low grade bait.

[EVENKEEL]

Careful, liberals here are a testy bunch.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, kevozman1 said:

When it comes to sexual relations, female employment opportunities, transsexuals and gender identity, both Thailand and the Western world are somewhat aligned, so being an honest person I will not argue on those points.

 

Ok then lets look further. Immigration options are heavily restricted for foreigners in Thailand. 

 

In every western country I know of, citizenship is available on birth.

"In every western country I know of, citizenship is available on birth."

You don't know much about this: Countries with Birthright Citizenship 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)

 

"Ok then lets look further. Immigration options are heavily restricted for foreigners in Thailand."

You want that in your country but then you choose to become a migrant yourself in another country. Bit strange this. 

 

"When it comes to sexual relations, female employment opportunities, transsexuals and gender identity, both Thailand and the Western world are somewhat aligned, so being an honest person I will not argue on those points."

Why do you come to a country where this is tolerated while a lot of Right wing people have big issues with this.

 

Very ignorant, baiting OP from my point of view.

[Woof999]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

Are you American? Why does everything to "you people" have to be left or right?

 

Exactly this. Bravo.

 

Is it not possible to support some values that are traditionally leftist and some that are from the nutters?

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Careful, liberals here are a testy bunch.

Not sure about testy but many are tasty.

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I have no idea what the point is of this topic.

That´s just because there is no point. Total crap!

[spidermike007]

This is a very silly post as it really has no bearing on anything. It was not well thought out. For most of us, though we may be critical of some political issues on this forum, it is simply a way to vent. Most discerning minds will feel that way anywhere, as politics are highly imperfect, and especially so here. Few of us are preaching to the masses, though they do realize they have been denied the democracy they desperately wanted and voted for, and that their elected PM was denied his right to lead, by toxic and elite powers that run the country.

 

Yes, I do believe Thailand is moving backwards, but it has little bearing on the relatively high quality of life I enjoy here.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Not sure about testy but many are tasty.

Weird, but I'm sure you know.

[BobBKK]

Hypocrites, it's simple - bit like Millionaire socialists or Hollywood bleeding-heart liberals like De Niro

[spidermike007]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Hypocrites, it's simple - bit like Millionaire socialists or Hollywood bleeding-heart liberals like De Niro

DeNiro is a true hero, and a legend, who speaks truth to extremely toxic power. Only someone obsessed with their Master, and his steady diet of lies, fabrications, hatred, and venom, would be offended by what this noble man has to say.

Edited June 12 by spidermike007

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

DeNiro is a true hero, and a legend, who speaks truth to extremely toxic power. Only someone obsessed with their Master, and his steady diet of lies, fabrications, hatred, and venom, would be offended by what this noble man has to say.

 
He's a rich, arrogant, bully millionaire liberal with a foul mouth. He should stick to acting like all his Hollywood woke genre. 

[BigStar]

6 hours ago, kevozman1 said:

This wouldn't present a problem to me, if not for the obvious hypocrisy.

 

Leftists are the worst possible hypocrites, no exceptions. Therein lies your answer.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

DeNiro is a true hero, and a legend, who speaks truth to extremely toxic power. Only someone obsessed with their Master, and his steady diet of lies, fabrications, hatred, and venom, would be offended by what this noble man has to say.

De Niro used to make good movies but now he makes junk ( Fokker movies etc ).

IMO his brain got fried along the way and he imagines he is important enough to tell us what to do.

 

IMO you only like him now because he hates Trump.

[Dcheech]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

De Niro used to make good movies but now he makes junk ( Fokker movies etc ).

IMO his brain got fried along the way and he imagines he is important enough to tell us what to do.

 

IMO you only like him now because he hates Trump.

He was great in The Irishman. 

It looks like you have successfully cancelled yet another actor. First George Clooney, now Robert DeNiro.  Wow, I am seriously out of touch with todays world, and how powerful this Cancel Culture thing is. BTW, Charlton Heston was a right winger & President of the NRA for many years. So that means I can't watch The Omega Man, or True Lies?!  What kind of world is this?

[G_Money]

47 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

DeNiro is a true hero, and a legend, who speaks truth to extremely toxic power. Only someone obsessed with their Master, and his steady diet of lies, fabrications, hatred, and venom, would be offended by what this noble man has to say.

 

[EVENKEEL]

23 minutes ago, Dcheech said:

He was great in The Irishman. 

It looks like you have successfully cancelled yet another actor. First George Clooney, now Robert DeNiro.  Wow, I am seriously out of touch with todays world, and how powerful this Cancel Culture thing is. BTW, Charlton Heston was a right winger & President of the NRA for many years. So that means I can't watch The Omega Man, or True Lies?!  What kind of world is this?

I don't really care about the actors personal beliefs but DeNiro is pushing it. Some say Ton Cruise is an idiot, I don't care, I like his movies. 

[Thingamabob]

Luvvies tend not to like Thailand.

[jerrymahoney]

Per the topic: Western Liberals: How Do You Justify Your Stay in Thailand?

 

Justify to whom?

 

There are people in the US with whom I eventually came to have so little contact they maybe don't even know that I am gone after 20 years.