Fire sparks chaos: Lithium battery turns van to ashes in Chon Buri

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 minute ago, Georgealbert said:

He has early in the thread, try reading it instead of posting you unqualified conspiracy nonsense.

Ahh the Evangelicalist has arrived - definitely time for me to leave.

[Georgealbert]

6 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I will point out that the first one was an 'accidental fire' caused by the occupants (does not state what they did to cause the fire - smoking?), and the second fire was a moving (hot) vehicle that the owner was driving (hot). Both were very old ICE cars I believe and who knows what work had been done over the years. I am referring to EV cars that spontaneously ignite while parked and cold - such as on that shiop.

Porsche EV battery blamed for ship fire in Mitsui OSK lawsuit - Nikkei Asia

Electric Cars Have One Problem: They Keep Lighting People's Houses on Fire (futurism.com)

 

Yes they both burn - but ICE fires can be contained - EV fires cannot be stopped and they are much more toxic too. 

   

So you really think fire services have not researched and developed procedures for EV? 
 

Here is a read of this, from  EV FireSafe which is a private company that received seed funding from the Australian Department of Defence to research electric vehicle high voltage battery fires & emergency response, particularly where the EV is connected to energised charging.

 

This has produced world-leading research & SME knowledge is referenced by the Australasian Fire Agencies Council, National Fire Chief's Council (UK), National Fire Protection Association (US) & various EV manufacturers such as Tesla.

https://www.evfiresafe.com/

 

[Georgealbert]

3 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Ahh the Evangelicalist has arrived - definitely time for me to leave.

I post real evidence and credible links to support my opinions, not like you, just shouting from a key board claiming only you know the ‘real truth’.

[JBChiangRai]

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Ahh the Evangelicalist has arrived - definitely time for me to leave.

allow me to open the door for you

[Georgealbert]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

allow me to open the door for you

Thanks, but all I have done is the same as you, post facts and supported it with links, and we both then get attacked by posters who fail to back up their claims.

 

I understand the fire risks with Li-ion batteries, but it is just another risk like everything else on the roads, be it EV, NGV, ICE LPG or any of the dangerous goods carried everyday, explosives, flammable liquids, gases, flammable solids, oxidisers, toxic materials, corrosive materials or radiation.

 

Emergency responders develop guidelines and procedures to safety and successfully deal with all incidents, always have done and will always continue to do so.

 

I have no preference for EVs or ICE vehicles, but what I like are the real facts, with credible links, not the conspiracies based on someone’s unqualified opinions, that some here then believe is the ‘real truth’

 

I confess I drive a ICE vehicle.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Georgealbert said:

Thanks, but all I have done is the same as you, post facts and supported it with links, and we both then get attacked by posters who fail to back up their claims.

 

I understand the fire risks with Li-ion batteries, but it is just another risk like everything else on the roads, be it EV, NGV, ICE LPG or any of the dangerous goods carried everyday, explosives, flammable liquids, gases, flammable solids, oxidisers, toxic materials, corrosive materials or radiation.

 

Emergency responders develop guidelines and procedures to safety and successfully deal with all incidents, always have done and will always continue to do so.

 

I have no preference for EVs or ICE vehicles, but what I like are the real facts, with credible links, not the conspiracies based on someone’s unqualified opinions, that some here then believe is the ‘real truth’

 

I confess I drive a ICE vehicle.

You are right, in the event of an EV fire, it is extremely difficult to put out, it burns very hot, and it produces noxious funes.

 

However, it happens exceedingly rarely and typically several orders of magnitude less than an ice vehicle

[neverere]

7 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Easy to find if you look for them.

Exactly, everyone can find information that confirms their beliefs, there is sadly no shortage of misinformation. The truth and facts are, to me at least, more important.  

[neverere]

7 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Easy to find if you look for them.

In our age, it is not difficult to source information. Truth should be you goal.

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

So post some credible research and stop embarrassing yourself with you lack of knowledge.

I posted a "credible" source... just because you and your narrow biased point of view didn't bother to read it or you have arbitrarily declared it not credible doesn't mean that it is not true... stop embarrassing yourself with you (your) lack of knowledge and by showing yourself to be short sighted and closed minded... you come across as a sanctimonious clown...  the sun doesn't rise and set on whether or not you push everyone to accept that EVs are the end all in vehicles... 555555

[Georgealbert]

26 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I posted a "credible" source... just because you and your narrow biased point of view didn't bother to read it or you have arbitrarily declared it not credible doesn't mean that it is not true... stop embarrassing yourself with you (your) lack of knowledge and by showing yourself to be short sighted and closed minded... you come across as a sanctimonious clown... the sun doesn't rise and set on whether or not you push everyone to accept that EVs are the end all in vehicles... haha

You just posted a link to a general web site that contains the words you wanted to hear, not a professional fire organization.

 

I posted links to the scientific research and full scale testing, from professional bodies, which is supported by the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association).

 

I am sorry if you fail to identify the difference, all I do is post real facts, I clearly can not help you understand those facts.

 

You also seem to have lost your argument, as you are now forced to name calling, as you clearly have no knowledge, training, qualifications or experience on the subject of car fires.

 

Here is a another image for you, from  EV FireSafe, which is a private company that received funding from the Australian Department of Defense to research electric vehicle high voltage battery fires & emergency response, particularly where the EV is connected to energized charging.

 

This company has produced world-leading research & SME knowledge is referenced by the Australasian Fire Agencies Council, National Fire Chief's Council (UK), National Fire Protection Association (US) & various EV manufacturers such as Tesla. The link was posted previously. 

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

12 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

You just posted a link to a general web site that contains the words you wanted to hear, not a professional fire organization.

 

I posted links to the scientific research and testing, from professional bodies, which is supported by the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association).

 

I am sorry if you fail to identify the difference, all I do is post real facts, I clearly can not help you understand those facts.

 

You also seem to have lost your argument, as you are now forced to result to name calling, as you clearly have no knowledge, training, qualifications or experience or the subject of car fires.

 

Here is a another image for you, from  EV FireSafe, which is a private company that received funding from the Australian Department of Defense to research electric vehicle high voltage battery fires & emergency response, particularly where the EV is connected to energized charging.

 

This company has produced world-leading research & SME knowledge is referenced by the Australasian Fire Agencies Council, National Fire Chief's Council (UK), National Fire Protection Association (US) & various EV manufacturers such as Tesla. The link was posted previously. 

 

 

02.3 Key findings | EV Fire Safe... Yo keep posting  the same source... one source... so far I have found 8 different sources that contradict your findings... can you corroborate your source... ???

[Georgealbert]

32 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

02.3 Key findings | EV Fire Safe... Yo keep posting  the same source... one source... so far I have found 8 different sources that contradict your findings... can you corroborate your source... ???

My sources are from professional bodies, those involved in the fire industry. 

 

The research is done to improve the safety of emergency responders and has been accepted worldwide and used to produced responders guidance and safety procedures..

 

So do you really think the NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) is not a credible source?

 

My source is corroborated by the organisation that support the findings and were in involved in the research.

 

1. Australian Department of Defense.

 

2. The NFPA is a U.S based international nonprofit organisation devoted to eliminating death, injury, property, and economic loss due to fire, electrical, and related hazards.

 

3. AFAC (Australasian Fire Agencies Council) is the National Council for fire and emergency services in Australia and New Zealand, creating synergies across the emergency management sector.

 

4. NFCC UK (National Fire Chief Council) is an independent membership association and the professional voice of UK fire and rescue services.

 

5. Fire Technology is a leading research journal dedicated to resolving problems in fire safety and fire engineering.

 

6. SFPE )The Society of Fire Protection Engineers) a prominent professional organisation which represents professionals working in the field of fire protection and fire safety engineering.

 

7. Fire Safety Journal, an international journal devoted to research on Fire Safety Science and Engineering.

 

8. RISE Research Institutes of Sweden, Department of Fire and Safety, 

 

9. Lund University, Sweden, Division of Fire Safety Engineering.

 

10. IFE, The Institution of Fire Engineers (IFE) is a global professional membership body for those in the fire sector that seek to increase their knowledge, professional recognition and understanding of fire. (I hold Member grade membership which for individuals who hold a Level 4 Diploma or equivalent and have been working within the fire sector for at least five years)

 

Real professional bodies that know a lot more than me, and certainly you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skipalongcassidy]

18 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

My sources are from professional bodies, those involved in the fire industry. 

 Real professional bodies that know a lot more than me, and certainly you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you even read my last source... it is a report released by the same Australian government that you are so deeply ensconced with... why are there contradictions?

[Georgealbert]

15 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Did you even read my last source... it is a report released by the same Australian government that you are so deeply ensconced with... why are there contradictions?

Sorry I have no idea what you are talking about, your last link was to Ev Firesafe,, which I quoted, posted an image from and linked previously.
 

I have read all the EV Firesafe information, and unlike you, I have the knowledge, capability and experience to really understand it

 

Please tell me how, as a UK citizen I am deeply ensconced with the the Australian government?

 

You clearly have the delusion that yelling your conspiracy opinions into the internet actually make a difference rather than the false background noise it really is.

 

Bye and try to have a good day in you alternative reality

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

Isn’t one sitting on an entire bed of these batteries in an ev car?

Yes..... and if you have a low riding  vehicle (like a Porsche Taycan) you have to be careful. A slight amount of damage that does not become a fire may well require a complete battery replacement... not a cheap prospect.

[Skipalongcassidy]

37 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

 

 Bye and try to have a good day in you alternative reality

No problem... goodbye.. you are right and anybody with a set of facts that are different than yours is wrong... are you sure you are a brit... you sound very much like an american democraptic party candidate.

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, Georgealbert said:

My sources are from professional bodies, those involved in the fire industry. 

 

Got a link to these professional bodies ?

[JBChiangRai]

50 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes..... and if you have a low riding  vehicle (like a Porsche Taycan) you have to be careful. A slight amount of damage that does not become a fire may well require a complete battery replacement... not a cheap prospect.

 

Some idiots buy lowering kits for their EV's to make them look cool, massively increasing the risk of battery damage.

[Georgealbert]

42 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Got a link to these professional bodies ?

All the professional bodies I listed above have been part of the research, that I have also posted in this thread.

 

Each organisation have their own website

[Georgealbert]

56 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

No problem... goodbye.. you are right and anybody with a set of facts that are different than yours is wrong... are you sure you are a brit... you sound very much like an american democraptic party candidate.

 

So you have lost the debate and have resulted to name calling again.

 

I have posted real facts and given opinions based on years of real life knowledge, experience, training and qualifications, where all you have done is ranted, about something you clearly do not understand and have no experience.

 

The difference between me and you is I am not suffering alethophobia.

 

[KhunLA]

On 6/30/2024 at 7:22 AM, jacko45k said:

Well statistics can prove anything especially with a government agenda behind them......I  just know a petrol car will not burst into uncontrollable flames if hit by something as likely as a lithium battery.

8 EVs a day catch fire in China.

 

There is that fear you are sitting on a bomb with batteries and a speed bump might be a risk.  Newer battery technology may reduce that fear.  

'Speed bump' ... 

 

... that's some funny sh!t right there.   You forgot to say, don't drive in the rain, as they catch fire and explode if wet also 

 

Only 8 EVs a day, that's actually quite a low number, considering the amount of EVs in CH @ 20.4 million EVs.  If my math is correct, that works out to <11 per 100k vehicles

 

Pretty hard to take that op piece serious, with this last sentence ...

... "Consequently, EV drivers often find themselves waiting for towing assistance while some resort to pushing their vehicles several kilometers to find charging points." 

 

Maybe they are referring to ebikes, as there is little info in the op / hit piece.

 

We all know "EVs exhibited 61 times fewer fires per 100,000 sales than ICE vehicles."

 

Or these numbers may sink in better, fires per 100k vehicles

... BEV - 25 fires per 100k

... ICE - 1530 fires per 100k

 

 

[Danderman123]

You guys worried about car fires should just get a horse. That's what early adopters of Internal Combustion vehicles were told by the old folks, back in the day.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

I post real evidence and credible links to support my opinions, not like you, just shouting from a key board claiming only you know the ‘real truth’.

Fire Risks Rise as Electric Vehicles Proliferate - IER (instituteforenergyresearch.org)

 

Focus: Ocean shippers playing catch up to electric vehicle fire risk | Reuters

 

It’s Time To Tell The Truth About Electric Cars - Master Investor

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

allow me to open the door for you

It’s Time To Tell The Truth About Electric Cars - Master Investor

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

15 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

Thanks, but all I have done is the same as you, post facts and supported it with links, and we both then get attacked by posters who fail to back up their claims.

 

I understand the fire risks with Li-ion batteries, but it is just another risk like everything else on the roads, be it EV, NGV, ICE LPG or any of the dangerous goods carried everyday, explosives, flammable liquids, gases, flammable solids, oxidisers, toxic materials, corrosive materials or radiation.

 

Emergency responders develop guidelines and procedures to safety and successfully deal with all incidents, always have done and will always continue to do so.

 

I have no preference for EVs or ICE vehicles, but what I like are the real facts, with credible links, not the conspiracies based on someone’s unqualified opinions, that some here then believe is the ‘real truth’

 

I confess I drive a ICE vehicle.

Confession noted. 

Delusions ignored.

[JBChiangRai]

11 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

It’s Time To Tell The Truth About Electric Cars - Master Investor

 

 

Toyota?  Now I understand.

[Georgealbert]

21 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Fire Risks Rise as Electric Vehicles Proliferate - IER (instituteforenergyresearch.org)

 

Focus: Ocean shippers playing catch up to electric vehicle fire risk | Reuters

 

It’s Time To Tell The Truth About Electric Cars - Master Investor

 

And how does that contradict any of the research studies I posted?

 

 

[Ralf001]

3 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

All the professional bodies I listed above have been part of the research, that I have also posted in this thread.

 

Each organisation have their own website

no links then.

colour me surprised !

[Georgealbert]

22 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Confession noted. 

Delusions ignored.

You clearly fail to recognise in yourself that when you have no knowledge or understanding of the subject, it requires intelligence and intellectual capability to know and understand your own limit and capabilities. But you choose to continue blindly down your own rabbit hole, solely based on your conspiratorial tunnel vision and opinions.

 

It is sad, but your own paranoid vision of reality and hatred, has blinked you from the truth and facts.
 

Bye and have a good day, and remember your arrogance is a pool disguise of your total ignorance.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

11 hours ago, neverere said:

In our age, it is not difficult to source information. Truth should be you goal.

 

Check out my posted links. 

 

Or wait - are you a woke globalist? You will only believe something that is stated by the UN? You know the UN? An organisation that has corrupt totalitarian dictatorship countries on their Human Rights Committee.  It was the UN that stated Covid19 was not transmissible from human to human - because China said so.  My point being - what are your 'proof' courses? Because there aint none!!  

 

Like many things these days, they have become polar debates - this side versus that - and EVs versus ICE is the same.  I dont take either side on this matter - I just take the truth - EVs are a false narrative - their downsides are being downplayed and their upsides are being overplayed. There are 3 groups of people on this issue (like so many issues). EV Supporters, ICE Supporters, and those like me that dont take either side. Sitting hgere on the fence I accasionaly drop down to one sidfe or the other, but mainly I sit on the fence. EV firs are real and are being downplayed. Example - EV supporters who dont say EVs do catch fire and uncontrollably burn with toxic smoke etc but that issue is being resolved and over time they will become extremely safe (probably) - they say 'more ICE vehicles burn'.