New Immigration form for retirement extensions.

[Expat68]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You would need to explain.

What is the difference(tax wise) on how people are treated between a retirement extension and a marriage extension?

Probably the same with a few differences, ie in the UK if the wife does not reach the tax threshold the husband and claim so much

[billd766]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

At the end of the day it is a bit irrelevant who makes up the rules, you either want a stamp or you don't.

Shouting BS is not going to make a difference, adapting to change is one of life's necessities.

I agree with you there.

 

But it doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

I am in the middle of preparing for my next marriage extension using my pension income.

 

So far it has taken me about 6 hours to get the photos taken, edited, re-labelled and printed.

 

I need 1 set for the local office in Kamphaeng Phet. Another set for the regional office in Chiang Mai and a 3rd set as spares, with my wife and son in them. Then I an doing another set of the same without my son, as he is at university at Chiang Rai.

 

I believe that I am correct, my wife says that I am wrong and he has to be in them.

 

In addition they all have to be on a form that KPP issues (and I can print out easily).

 

It is driving me nuts.

 

And this is without getting 3 copies of the letter from Bangkok bank and 3 copies of 12 months bank statements, each page must have a bank stamp and a scrawled signature.

That takes two x 130km round trips trip to the bank and about 30 minutes to an hour each time to tell them exactly what I want.

 

Plus of course at least 3 working days for the provincial bank branch to get authorisation from their head office.

 

The second trip will also take in Immigration and my marriage extension.

 

It is no wonder that I am now in the official grumpy old man, and seriously cranky mode.

 

😂 

[Surasak]

11 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

Which makes me seriously wonder whether this so-called affidavit could, in fact, amount to some phishing attempt on their part aimed at targeting foreign retirees' bank balances.

 

You have pipped me to the post here. It was the first thing that crossed my mind of having read the form.

[Hummin]

19 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Does this form need to be filled by all who apply for a retirement extension? There are 2 ways to qualify financially for a retirement extension, by monthly deposits or by bank balance. Is this form only for the monthly deposit method?

or embassy letter for those of us who still have an embassy giving that service

[Mason45]

19 hours ago, connda said:

Who cares.  I really don't care anymore.  What's another form to add to the stack of forms I already fill out.  <shrugs>

I heard a rumor from a person in the know that they're trying to force people to use visa agents so more people get their slice of the action.

[billd766]

Just now, Mason45 said:

I heard a rumor from a person in the know that they're trying to force people to use visa agents so more people get their slice of the action.

In April I asked in the Kamphaeng Phet office if and agents worked through them and it seems as though none worked with that office. 

 

KPP is only 1 small office, and is the only one I have firsthand knowledge of.

[DrJack54]

Off topic post and reply removed

[Rob Browder]

1 hour ago, freeworld said:

Probably related to those using agents and who do not have enough money to support their stay in Thailand according to the financial requirement rules or they want to be sure that the money is not coming from illegal working in Thailand. It will do away with that type of corruption.

Agent applications skip all these "extras" - so, no.  Anything that makes extensions more of a PITA increases agent-based revenue.

 

5 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

FWIW, U.S. Social Security is NOT a "Pension".

 

One translation of the Immigration section said "...income such as a pension, interest, savings...".

Ubon Joe and others reported having to show the SOURCE of the income - in his case, was from Social Security - in addition to the bank-deposit documents.  Many offices "interpreted" a valid source as "Only a Pension qualifies" - where Social Security is included in what they considered "a pension." 

 

I recall a recent retirement-based extension report where this was not asked for - so maybe they are lightening-up on this - in some office(s).

[WilliamSmits]

Maybe they add a bank account nr to our stored data - then check if this account number number is used just by this applicant ?

[WilliamSmits]

Maybe they add a bank account nr to our stored data - then check if this account number number is used just by this applicant ?

[koolkarl]

15 hours ago, freeworld said:

Immigration has nothing to do with CRS.

Sounds like immigration is gathering info for Thai tax dept.

[freeworld]

44 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

Sounds like immigration is gathering info for Thai tax dept.

Rubbish.

 

More like correlating the applicants bank account number and balance with the financials used to obtain an extension of stay (to find those who do not have the funds  and are using agents. Somehow they are producing bank documents with financial info temporarily to support their application for an extension of stay)

 

 

Edited July 11 by freeworld

[Expat68]

43 minutes ago, koolkarl said:

Sounds like immigration is gathering info for Thai tax dept.

They have had my bank details for a number of years

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

But we aren't even sure this is a tax issue,

Exactly. 

Until it is people should refrain from unsubstantiated speculation. Too many threads are being distorted with someone trying to turn it into a tax issue.

Personal taxation is exactly that, personal. No two people's circumstances are the same and each will have to deal with it individually. The paranoid should keep their thoughts to themselves.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, billd766 said:

I agree with you there.

 

But it doesn't mean you have to like it.

 

I am in the middle of preparing for my next marriage extension using my pension income.

 

So far it has taken me about 6 hours to get the photos taken, edited, re-labelled and printed.

 

I need 1 set for the local office in Kamphaeng Phet. Another set for the regional office in Chiang Mai and a 3rd set as spares, with my wife and son in them. Then I an doing another set of the same without my son, as he is at university at Chiang Rai.

 

I believe that I am correct, my wife says that I am wrong and he has to be in them.

 

In addition they all have to be on a form that KPP issues (and I can print out easily).

 

It is driving me nuts.

 

And this is without getting 3 copies of the letter from Bangkok bank and 3 copies of 12 months bank statements, each page must have a bank stamp and a scrawled signature.

That takes two x 130km round trips trip to the bank and about 30 minutes to an hour each time to tell them exactly what I want.

 

Plus of course at least 3 working days for the provincial bank branch to get authorisation from their head office.

 

The second trip will also take in Immigration and my marriage extension.

 

It is no wonder that I am now in the official grumpy old man, and seriously cranky mode.

 

😂 

Quite Bill. I also do marriage extensions and until last year also on income. However I wouldn't relate the same tale of woe, not all about the rules, sometimes more to do with how the rules are implemented. Also I can get the bank documents over the counter, I do it on the way to immigration, no appointment necessary and takes about 30 minutes.

It can all be a bit tedious but at the end of the day, an awful lot easier for me to stay here than the bureaucracy and cost of my wife going to the UK.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Mason45 said:

I heard a rumor from a person in the know that they're trying to force people to use visa agents so more people get their slice of the action.

Earlier in the year my marriage extension went over the 30 days. My wife was told to phone up twice a day to see if it had come back. After a few days she asked what was the holdup and was told there was a backlog due to an investigation on extension funding by agents.

[NanLaew]

On 7/9/2024 at 9:00 PM, Mutt Daeng said:

On 7/9/2024 at 7:49 PM, Jingthing said:

They probably don't understand it yet themselves.

Seems this is related to  ... TAXES.

You could be right JT, but why only for people on retirement extensions? Surely those on marriage extensions are subject to the same tax rules?

 

Precisely this.

 

Thai income tax whatiffery has just had some gasoline thrown on it.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, Expat68 said:

They have had my bank details for a number of years

Not on ALL accounts!

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Exactly. 

Until it is people should refrain from unsubstantiated speculation. Too many threads are being distorted with someone trying to turn it into a tax issue.

Personal taxation is exactly that, personal. No two people's circumstances are the same and each will have to deal with it individually. The paranoid should keep their thoughts to themselves.

No speculation?

Then what's the point of a flippin' forum then?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Sounds like immigration is gathering info for Thai tax dept.

 

Oops... more gasoline.

[NanLaew]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No speculation?

Then what's the point of a flippin' forum then?

 

Certainly not to foment idle rumor based on unsubstantiated claims.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Certainly not to foment idle rumor based on unsubstantiated claims.

Speculation is normal.

As long as it's not presented as established fact there shouldn't be a problem.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Earlier in the year my marriage extension went over the 30 days. My wife was told to phone up twice a day to see if it had come back. After a few days she asked what was the holdup and was told there was a backlog due to an investigation on extension funding by agents.

I considered that as a reason for this form.

Same bank account number, two different named applicants.

 

Another reason I considered is when using a Fixed term account for the funds, to provide an alternative account.

When I submitted my second extension application based of 800K funds in a Fixed term account, the IO questioned how I managed to support myself financially in Thailand as the funds were fixed throughout the year, and raising the suspicion I was working illegally.

Since then, I've always requested the bank to detail both my fixed term deposit and Savings accounts on the standard letter.

 

What concerns me in particular, and a point missed, is that the 'Statement' form previously used for extensions based on Thai spouse has now changed to an 'Affidavit' format.
Now the introduction of an 'Affidavit' for extensions based on retirement.

 

In the event of any shenanigans and investigations into extensions being issued via corrupt means, previously one could point the finger at each other, IO at agent, agent at applicant, applicant at agent, or any other third party involvement.

An affidavit is a sworn statement put in writing. When you use an affidavit, you’re claiming that the information within the document is true and correct to the best of your knowledge.

Regardless of who did what, the affidavit squarely points the finger at the applicant. Any involvement by third parties get off Scott free.

[jerrymahoney]

If you use the 65+K per month retirement protocol, they have most all that info anyway.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Speculation is normal.

As long as it's not presented as established fact there shouldn't be a problem.

 

Totally agree. It's just that not everyone has the same grasp of the fundamentals and can tell the sh*t from Shinola when it comes to stuff on forums and social media. There's a penchant to click/like/forward the contentious, attention-grabbing stuff while ignoring the facts, just to get more followers/friends/likes.

 

WRT this thread, any mention of taxation is crying wolf.

[Rob Browder]

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Same bank account number, two different named applicants.

That's not how agents do it.  They put the money in the applicant's account, get a real bank-letter showing the balance, then take it back out.   Only the seasoning requirement is "waived".

 

6 hours ago, Liquorice said:

the IO questioned how I managed to support myself financially in Thailand as the funds were fixed throughout the year, and raising the suspicion I was working illegally.

Working Illegally doing what?  Competing with the Burmese lady for an under-the-table maid-job - which she gets unlimited land-border entries from Thai Immigration to facilitate?  

If we get jobs here, they are for decent pay, and include work-permits.

 

I would have said I get my spending-money at the ATM

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

After a few days she asked what was the holdup and was told there was a backlog due to an investigation on extension funding by agents.

Translation:  A local IO was, perhaps, trying a side-deal with an agent not approved / feeding the system.  In the case of marriage-based extensions, this requires a district-office signature, and agent-service costs 10K+ baht extra (vs retirement-based) due to this.  If the district guy got an application w/o an envelope, and thinks they are trying to cut him out of his piece of an agent-assisted extension ... bingo - not a happy camper. 

[Liquorice]

10 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

That's not how agents do it.  They put the money in the applicant's account, get a real bank-letter showing the balance, then take it back out.   Only the seasoning requirement is "waived".

And you sign an affidavit stating the account is true and correct - guilty as charged, your honour!

 

15 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

Working Illegally doing what?  Competing with the Burmese lady for an under-the-table maid-job - which she gets unlimited land-border entries from Thai Immigration to facilitate?  

If we get jobs here, they are for decent pay, and include work-permits.

Mmmm! Digital nomads don't fit in that bracket, as one example.

 

17 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

I would have said I get my spending-money at the ATM

And you probably would.

I just showed evidence of having an additional Savings account.

[Rob Browder]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

And you sign an affidavit stating the account is true and correct - guilty as charged, your honour!

 

Mmmm! Digital nomads don't fit in that bracket, as one example.

 

And you probably would.

I just showed evidence of having an additional Savings account.

The agent-using people just run into Immigration for 10-seconds for a picture.  I've watched them do it. 

 

Those with foreign incomes - from providing tech-services, dividends, crypto, or whatever - may also use ATM machines vs bank-xfers.

 

I don't blame you bringing the extra proof, however.  I show up with a backpack full of everything - last years app/data copies, old passports, etc.  I had a 2nd bag, back when I was doing married-based extensions, just to hold it all.  If they decided to be difficult, I didn't need to make a 2nd trip.  Some offices are not friendly to those not using agents - ask me how I know!

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

No speculation?

Then what's the point of a flippin' forum then?

Debating an issue, not creating an issue.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

That's not how agents do it.  They put the money in the applicant's account, get a real bank-letter showing the balance, then take it back out.   Only the seasoning requirement is "waived".

 

Working Illegally doing what?  Competing with the Burmese lady for an under-the-table maid-job - which she gets unlimited land-border entries from Thai Immigration to facilitate?  

If we get jobs here, they are for decent pay, and include work-permits.

 

I would have said I get my spending-money at the ATM

Translation:  A local IO was, perhaps, trying a side-deal with an agent not approved / feeding the system.  In the case of marriage-based extensions, this requires a district-office signature, and agent-service costs 10K+ baht extra (vs retirement-based) due to this.  If the district guy got an application w/o an envelope, and thinks they are trying to cut him out of his piece of an agent-assisted extension ... bingo - not a happy camper. 

Amazing what can be dreamed up to suit an agenda.