Shocking surge: Thai electricity tariffs set to spark debate

[edwinchester]

3 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

a 5Kw system can produce on the very best circumstances 416 kwH per month, so how that can save you 2500 baht per month is a mystery to me.

But it is clear that all those solar and EV fanboys are very liberal (pun intended) with their calculations

No idea. All I know is that my average house bill have gone down from about 2500 to less than a thousand and the TOU bill also about a thousand less as I'm charging our EV using solar too.

Maybe it's because we're still connected to the grid too and alot of the time the meter's spinning backwards like crazy.

[seajae]

wouldnt be too bad if they put the money back into infrastructure, lines and adding transformers, we are constantly having our power surge, drop back surge  drop back because the closest transformer is aound a kilometer plus away, we keep complaing and they keep making up excuses, they have told us if we want it fixed we have to purchase a new transformer ourselves but they will decide where to place it. It is a totally garbage service that refuses to fix the problems with all the old lines etc, too busy putting the money into their own pockets which is where any increases will also go.

[Bandersnatch]

22 minutes ago, superal said:

Fascinating subject and thanks for your video but I am only really interested in a basic solar system , without batteries , that can run 2 air cons , using 42000 btu , a large display fridge and 4 ceiling fans .For me it is all about the months of March , April , May & June when the temperature is high and so are my bills . The rest of the year my consumption and bills are normal range . So what do you think the system would cost including installation by a competent person ? BTW , keep it simple please because like many a layman the technicalities of solar are beyond my understanding . 

 

Tier one solar panels are already at ฿6.5/Watt

 

Inverters are already as low as ฿4K per kW

 

5kW of Solar = ฿32,000

5kW Inverter = ฿20,000

Total cost for main components= ฿52,000

 

You will need various comments like brackets and rails to fit the panels, Cables and breakers etc. Then you will need someone to fit the system. The prices for all of these will vary.

 

Most people just get a quote for supply and fit which will be more expensive.

 

Solar will ramp up during the day here is a graph for one of my 5kW inverters

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[In Full Agreement]

 

wouldnt be too bad if they put the money back into infrastructure, lines and adding transformer

3 minutes ago, seajae said:

wouldnt be too bad if they put the money back into infrastructure, lines and adding transformers

 

 

 

FEAR NOT,  there'd still be the usual suspects on this forum complaining away.

 

 

[steve187]

57 minutes ago, ronster said:

Will be installing solar in coming months as electric bills are 5-6000bht a month .

No idea how they are so much as that is for one large and one medium fridge, one TV,one fan and an inverter air con unit that is on 20 hrs a day due to dogs love of it 😁.

thats a lot of money how many units you using and at what unit rate

[Bandersnatch]

19 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

But it is clear that all those solar and EV fanboys are very liberal (pun intended) with their calculations

 

As I said above,  the bigger your bill the bigger the savings

 

My Main Components (at todays prices)  - doesn’t include installation 
20,000 Watts of PV @ ฿5/W = ฿100,000
36kWh Batteries @ ฿5k/kWh = ฿180,000
20kW of Inversion @ ฿5k/kW = ฿100,000
Total = ฿380,000

 

Savings: 
PEA saving ฿4,000/month
Fuel saving for 2 drivers and 2 vehicles and 1 motorbike  ฿4,000/month (based on Previous usage for ICE)
= ฿96,000/Year saving 

Payback = 4 Years

 

Based on what I paid a few years back my actual payback is closer to 6 years.

[BritManToo]

33 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

a 5Kw system can produce on the very best circumstances 416 kwH per month, in real life significantly less though,so how that can save you 2500 baht per month is a mystery to me.

But it is clear that all those solar and EV fanboys are very liberal (pun intended) with their calculations

5Kw of solar cells x 6hr/day x 30 days/month = 900 units.

As you didn't post your calculation arriving at 416 units, we can't point out your error.

 

I have 3Kw (340w x 9 panels) of solar cells (shaded after 2pm so zero output after that) and they produce around 350-400 units a month.

Reducing my electricity bill from 1800bht to under 250bht/month (40-80 units from grid).

I don't have my cooker, air-con, shower heaters, kettle or oven on solar but everything else (including my E-mountain bike) draws no grid power unless 2 wet days in a row.

 

Don't really care about saving money, do care about losing lights/Tv/PC in the frequent power cuts (at least 2x a month, sometimes only seconds, sometimes for hours) that is Thailand PEA/MEA.

Edited July 13 by BritManToo

[CallumWK]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

5Kw of solar cells x 6hr/day x 30 days/month = 900 units.

As you didn't post your calculation arriving at 416 units, we can't point out your error.

 

https://www.sunsave.energy/solar-panels-advice/system-size/5kw-solar-system

 

What is a 5kW solar panel system?

 

A 5kW solar panel system has a peak output rating of five kilowatts, meaning it produces 5,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per year in standard test conditions.

You can construct a 5kW system by acquiring solar panels with power ratings that add up to 5,000 watts (W) when grouped together – for example, 12 panels that are all rated at 430W.

This doesn’t necessarily mean your system will generate 5,000kWh, since solar panel output is affected by factors including your location, roof angle and direction, and the quality of the installation.

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

https://www.sunsave.energy/solar-panels-advice/system-size/5kw-solar-system

 

What is a 5kW solar panel system?

 

A 5kW solar panel system has a peak output rating of five kilowatts, meaning it produces 5,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per year in standard test conditions.

You can construct a 5kW system by acquiring solar panels with power ratings that add up to 5,000 watts (W) when grouped together – for example, 12 panels that are all rated at 430W.

This doesn’t necessarily mean your system will generate 5,000kWh, since solar panel output is affected by factors including your location, roof angle and direction, and the quality of the installation.

 

 

 

 

430w x 12 panels = 5 units/hr.

5 units/hr x 6hr/day x 365 days = 10,950 units/year

 

Sunsave (you quoted) is a UK company ...........

Would suggest yearly average output in the UK is significantly different to yearly average output in Thailand.

Edited July 13 by BritManToo

[NotEinstein]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Actually not complicated at all, if mechanically inclined.  A few members installed, maintain (very little), and upgrade their own systems.  YT will talk you through installing.  Doesn't seem difficult at all.

I didn't say it was difficult - my point was that there is the risk of single point of failure that would be down to you to fix - crossy has had issues for example. With luck maybe you will not encounter any problems, but we all know about the business models of organisations manufacturing such products - cut corners as much as possible to maximize profit. The days of companies being run with technical professionalism being prime is long gone - think Boeing.......

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, NotEinstein said:

I didn't say it was difficult - my point was that there is the risk of single point of failure that would be down to you to fix - crossy has had issues for example. With luck maybe you will not encounter any problems, but we all know about the business models of organisations manufacturing such products - cut corners as much as possible to maximize profit. The days of companies being run with technical professionalism being prime is long gone - think Boeing.......

Buying quality components avoids headaches.   Same as any purchase.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Buying quality components avoids headaches.   Same as any purchase.

I bought the cheapest 5.5Kw hybrid inverter I could find direct from China for 13kbht (Mr. Power aka Y&H aka many other companies).

It's worked faultlessly for 3-4 years, switched itself off once when a teen managed to short out the output with an extension cable. No damage to teen, cable or inverter.

 

Can't get much more reliable than that!

Edited July 13 by BritManToo

[dinsdale]

5 hours ago, Suua said:

They can do whatever they like.....I have a functioning solar system and will never pay an electricity bill (over 120 baht) ever again.

Nice to see your compassion for other people rising to the top. People are struggling. Just because you have the money to go solar not everyone has and not everyone is in a position that they can. 

[ronster]

2 hours ago, steve187 said:

thats a lot of money how many units you using and at what unit rate

Just looked at last bill and it doesn't show the rate per unit for some reason.

Units used 1005 and cost 4990bht .Still seems very expensive for what it is 🙈

Will be sending wife to PEA to ask why no units shown on bills and electric has different unit for day and night as far as I remember.

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

i do agree, the poor people should be supported. 

 

but everything has to be seen in relation: the poor are using (e.g.) 150 units per month and

the price increases by 50 satang, resulting in a 75 thb increase in the monthly bill...

 

True enough. I've just asked my wife about her sister who lives in a single room hut on 600 THB pension plus her welfare card. Her electric bill is just 25 THB per month. There is, I'm told, a price subsidy for consumers who use less than 300 units per month.

[KhunLA]

46 minutes ago, ronster said:

Just looked at last bill and it doesn't show the rate per unit for some reason.

Units used 1005 and cost 4990bht .Still seems very expensive for what it is 🙈

Will be sending wife to PEA to ask why no units shown on bills and electric has different unit for day and night as far as I remember.

We've hit 1000+kWh used a few times, with our solar.

 

New insulated, shaded house.  New inverter ACs (13 & 24BTU).   13k BTU running almost 24/7.  24k BTU about 8 hrs a day.

 

2 frigs, medium sizes, 1 old, 1 a few years old  When not home, they use 4kWh a day.

 

Couple laptops, and mine, I use 65" TV as monitor, and on 15-18hrs  day.

 

Some kitchen electric appliances, but use gas hob mostly.

EVs account for 110kWh a month, on average. ... Without the EVs, maybe 900kWh would be high usage bill.

 

900kWh bill would still be 4440 baht bill.  During the brutal, sunny, hot months, April & May our highest usage, that we were home all month.

 

2023 ...

 

2024 ...

 

[Crossy]

3 hours ago, NotEinstein said:

crossy has had issues for example.

 

We lost an inverter due to a failed firmware update (initiated by the manufacturer). Unit replaced under warranty. No doubt it would have gone on if the update hadn't been attempted.

 

Crickey, was it really 2022!!

 

 

[rwill]

7 hours ago, NotEinstein said:

While the cost increases may make solar investment more attractive, the most important aspect tends to get over-looked - risk. Owning solar at the moment reminds me of what is was like when cars were first available - the owner had to know how it worked so as to be able to repair it, or have a servant for it. Adding batteries to the equation only makes it worse. I suppose, at some point, enterprising individuals will start selling service contracts to maintain solar installs.

My solar installation included the first 2 years of maintenance.

[Suua]

22 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

What would you estimate the payback time to be (including the lost opportunity cost of capital.....at say.....5%?)

 

Serious question.

Solar systems and why the payback time is a lot shorter than you might think.

Typically, a system without batteries will payback within 2-3 years.

Typically, a system with batteries will payback within 6 years.

I've had my solar system for 6 months now.

It is a system with batteries.

Typically this type of system will 'payback' (return the original investment) after 6 years.

This term can be shortened considerably in reality.

Here's how......

Usually, this 6 year return is calculated on the current household electricity bill.

Most people will try and use the minimum amount of air conditioners possible as they're (justifiably) concerned about their electricity bill.

My house has 5 air conditioners.

Before my solar install, I would run a maximum of 2 AC units at any one time, and just 1 if possible, as I was concerned about the cost.

Now I have my solar system, on a sunny day I will run all 5 AC units during the day as they are all powered from the panels.....taking no power from the grid (PEA in Thailand).

Why? well it's like the 'fridge effect' whereby the whole house gets cooled down and come evening time will be easier to keep cool by just using 1 or 2 AC units.

I would never have done this prior to having solar power, as the thought of the electricity bill at the end of the month was scary.

How much would it have cost to run all 5 AC units all day long without solar power...... it would have easily doubled my bill.

Add this to the ever increasing cost of electricity, It's not hard to see when using this approach, the return period will be a lot less than 6 years....probably closer to 3.

[retarius]

On 7/13/2024 at 9:43 AM, KhunLA said:

Depends on a lot of factors.   Cost obviously, how large a system, with or without ESS/battery back up for none production hours, 14 hrs overnight for us, from 1800-0800 hrs.

 

Our ROI is, will be from 3.7yrs to 6yr, depending how abusive we are with the ACs, and if driving EV local or O&A (20k kms a year).   Pretty much base on low PEA & petrol bills of ฿3000 each of month (฿6k), or abusive/high use bills of ฿5000 each (฿10k), during the month.

 

Without the EVs, ROI would be a bit longer, 8-10 yrs.   That's being 'off grid', and the ESS was near 42% the cost of installation, ฿185k of the ฿445k  8kWh inverter w/20kWh of ESS.   Self installed 5 kWh system, no ESS would be less expensive & supplement most folk's bill nicely.

 

How many units/kWh a month do you use now (printed on your bill).  Some months we use 500-700kWh, others we used 1000+kWh.   The EV use seems to be constant, 20k kms a year.

 

If local driving EV saves about ฿54k a year, if all solar.  If we had to use grid, savings still high, at ฿42k a year, as @ ฿5 a kWh, PEA would only cost ฿12k a year for 20k kms.  PEA is that much cheaper than PTT 91.

KhunLA you seem to know a lot about this. I'm pretty much a dud with electricity and avoid it like the plague, but my electric bills are 22,000 per month (we have 10 A/c units and 3 phase electricity).....going down to 10-11,000 if we are out of the country and have only staff at the house. We have acres of space for solar panels on our roofs of the 4 single storey buildings in the compound, but the main house is two stories and would be impossible to service or clean without scaffolding. I don;t have an electric car and understand that the charging for such a vehicle costs USD$8000 to install. I'd like to be off grid if possible. Do you know any reputable company in Isaan that might provide a quote for such a job? Thanks.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, retarius said:

KhunLA you seem to know a lot about this. I'm pretty much a dud with electricity and avoid it like the plague, but my electric bills are 22,000 per month (we have 10 A/c units and 3 phase electricity).....going down to 10-11,000 if we are out of the country and have only staff at the house. We have acres of space for solar panels on our roofs of the 4 single storey buildings in the compound, but the main house is two stories and would be impossible to service or clean without scaffolding. I don;t have an electric car and understand that the charging for such a vehicle costs USD$8000 to install. I'd like to be off grid if possible. Do you know any reputable company in Isaan that might provide a quote for such a job? Thanks.

Don't know an installer in the NE, we used one based in Hua Hin.   2nd story shouldn't be a problem.   We don't clean our panels, and think the wife rinsed them down once.   Rainy season keeps them clean, and they don't get that dirty to interfere with production non rainy season.  Always seems to be a spot of rain during 'dry/cool' season.   So we don't bother.

 

EV makers here/TH, most provide wall charging cables, along with installation, unless EV on sale, and one way the cut their cost.   Daughter got a sale price for her BYD, w/wall charger, but had to pay for installation @ 15k baht, I think.  Far from $8k USD.

 

Our MG came with wall charger & installation.   Which we rarely use, since that is on the grid.  We use the granny/emergency charging cable that also comes with the EV.   Slower, but the solar will handle it with no problem.  2.3kWh vs 7.4kWh draw from the wall charging cable.  Our system is only 8kWh, so not connected to it.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, smedly said:

my bills say different, haven't looked at it in great detail all I know is that my bill has increased month on month year on year by some 40%

 

I would disagree. In 2014 my annual bill was 18K and it remained close to that amount for 8 years, sometimes below, last year it went up to 21K due to the covid subsidies coming to an end.

I anticipate a bit of an increase this year due to additional facilities outside that were used for several months by family and workmen during renovation work for cooking, hot water, etc.

[sandyf]

21 hours ago, ronster said:

Just looked at last bill and it doesn't show the rate per unit for some reason.

Units used 1005 and cost 4990bht .Still seems very expensive for what it is 🙈

Will be sending wife to PEA to ask why no units shown on bills and electric has different unit for day and night as far as I remember.

Doesn't seem out of order to me. My May bill was 554 units and that was 2641 baht.

My bill used to show the unit price but that is no longer the case, think it stopped when they changed the format to a combined bill & receipt.

[Tropicalevo]

On 7/13/2024 at 7:22 AM, NotEinstein said:

I suppose, at some point, enterprising individuals will start selling service contracts to maintain solar installs.

That is already happening here on Samui.

More and more people are installing solar on private developments where the price per unit is at the whim of the developer.

Almost 10 baht per unit already where I am. (8 baht + VAT + FT.)

I am expecting a big increase from the developer later in the year.

 

On 7/13/2024 at 9:46 AM, edwinchester said:

My 5Kw system cost 90k bht installed. I'm saving about 2500 bht a month so payback sometime in year four.

 

On 7/13/2024 at 10:03 AM, CallumWK said:

 

a 5Kw system can produce on the very best circumstances 416 kwH per month, in real life significantly less though,so how that can save you 2500 baht per month is a mystery to me.

But it is clear that all those solar and EV fanboys are very liberal (pun intended) with their calculations

 

My solar cost 120,000 THB in 2019 and payback was during year three. Looking back at my bills, I am saving between 3k and 5 k per month.

BUT the unit price on the electricity here is more than double the government price.

[bubblegum]

Like many others I don't understand solar at all. Kw per hr inverter.... all riddles to me. We use between 1000 and 1500 per month. I don't know if this is Kw or bath or watts because it says only consumption on the bill.

 

So is a 5Kw like @BritManToo system good enough and how much m2 would the solar panels be? 

[KannikaP]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:28 AM, Suua said:

They can do whatever they like.....I have a functioning solar system and will never pay an electricity bill (over 120 baht) ever again.

What did the Solar system cost to buy and install please?

[billd766]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:28 AM, Suua said:

They can do whatever they like.....I have a functioning solar system and will never pay an electricity bill (over 120 baht) ever again.

And just how much did your wonderful functioning solar system cost you?

 

And what will be the costs of replacing the solar panels and the batteries when they reach the end of their life expectancy?

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Like many others I don't understand solar at all. Kw per hr inverter.... all riddles to me. We use between 1000 and 1500 per month. I don't know if this is Kw or bath or watts because it says only consumption on the bill.

 

So is a 5Kw like @BritManToo system good enough and how much m2 would the solar panels be? 

Assuming that's kWh/units on your bill, which is a 5k-7.5k baht bill.

 

Our system is 8kWh, means the hybrid inverter will accept about 8kWh from the panel, and put out about 8kWh to the house/load.  Any more, and it will shut down.

 

Our system is just enough, on crappy, overcast, rainy days, to supply enough for the house, and recharge the ESS/batteries, we use for overnight/non production hours (14 hrs).   That's about 6-8kWh overnight.

 

When not home, house uses about 4kWh, just keeping the 2 frigs running, and maybe 1 light.

 

On a good, very sunny day, and using everything w/EV plugged in, we can produce & use 50kWh, total, for house, top up batteries, and EV.  That's about our max production/use, and don't think we could squeeze too much more out of it.

 

On a crappy day, lucky to get 10kWh, total.  I don't 5kWh system would meet your full requirements, or even 8kWh.   10kWh (two 5kWh for redundancy) would work for you.   If you're home during the daytime, 5kWh would certainly supplement a good part of your bill.  

 

ESS add a good bit of the cost of any system.   If not home during the day, then benefits of solar wouldn't really be realized, unless using a lot overnight, which would require a lot of ESS/battery storage.

 

Panel sizes are about 2m² (2 X 1), and we have 18 X .540w = 9.7kWh produce.   About 40m² of roof need.   Split even, 9 panels facing S & W.  Any more, and would be waste, as inverter will only accept so much.   We don't have East facing, so lose a bit in the early sunrise.

 

Edited July 14 by KhunLA

[MJCM]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

 

And what will be the costs of replacing the solar panels and the batteries when they reach the end of their life expectancy?

 

Lifetime of the Panels is +/- 20 years and with the price of the panels going down (and their production capacity GOING UP because of new innovations) the total price will be a lot less then what he has saved on his Electricity Bill

 

Lifetime of the Batteries depends on which kind he has but if he has LFP4 (Lithium iron phosphate battery) then lifetime is around 10 years. And with everything Batteries are evolving very rapidly with the energy transition. So in 10 years time there maybe a new innovation that is a lot cheaper then today (remember PC's or phones and how they evolved price wise? Faster, smaller and less expensive)

 

And as Said electricity Price is only GOING up!

Edited July 14 by MJCM

[billd766]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:45 AM, CallumWK said:

 

https://www.sunsave.energy/solar-panels-advice/system-size/5kw-solar-system

 

What is a 5kW solar panel system?

 

A 5kW solar panel system has a peak output rating of five kilowatts, meaning it produces 5,000 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per year in standard test conditions.

You can construct a 5kW system by acquiring solar panels with power ratings that add up to 5,000 watts (W) when grouped together – for example, 12 panels that are all rated at 430W.

This doesn’t necessarily mean your system will generate 5,000kWh, since solar panel output is affected by factors including your location, roof angle and direction, and the quality of the installation.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for that useful bit of information. From that information, to get a regular 5kw I would probably need a 7kw system, and for a regular 10kw 24/7, I would probably need a 12 to 14kw system.