New travel rules: Thailand’s ETA to shake up visa-free visitors

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, James9999 said:

My thought as well. How does having to pre-book flights and accommodation differ from applying for a visa? The whole beauty of visa exempt is you can just up and go. Now you will have to risk booking the flight and hope the ETA is approved and approved in a timely manner and have a day by day itinenary to know where to pre-book accommodation. I remember during the covid restrictions desperate people due to fly the next day and still waiting for visa approval. No thank you.

I don't think the ETA would work this way. I just came from Malaysia where I had to submit something similar prior to immigration clearance. It can be done right before passport control, in fact there are big posters with QR code links to the web site. For accommodation you don't need to present any proof, any hotel will do. It is a nuisance but I noticed big crowds at the automatic gates and people were clearing immigration very quickly.

[geisha]

52 minutes ago, gearbox said:

I don't think the ETA would work this way. I just came from Malaysia where I had to submit something similar prior to immigration clearance. It can be done right before passport control, in fact there are big posters with QR code links to the web site. For accommodation you don't need to present any proof, any hotel will do. It is a nuisance but I noticed big crowds at the automatic gates and people were clearing immigration very quickly.

You are comparing apples and pears.

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

You are comparing apples and pears.

I'm just following the lead from the OP which says "much like systems in Malaysia and Cambodia. "

[Woke to Sounds]

This is not going to matter one iota once the WHO - UN - WEF call for a crack down on travel again with another p(l)andemic in the pipeline.

 

Doc Tedros - hardes working man in show biz!

 

Cheers all

[gejohesch]

18 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Unfortunately, I tend to agree. Thailand has an incredible record of complicated and ever changing rules. Thailand should take an example from how Malaysia does it - straight and simple. I traveled to KL a few months ago and was stopped at the immigration because I had not arranged for the ETA. I did not know it was a new requirement, having traveled in and out there multiple times over the years before, and never had any problem as I carry a EU passport. But I could fix it right there by the immigration desk, it took me 5 minutes and I just had to let pass a dozen or so of other travelers in front of me while I was connecting with the relevant website. That shows Malaysia has an easy and straightforward system in place. Thailand, again, should look into it. ...... But, I forgot, it's Thailand, and why should Thailand learn from anyone anywhere outside Thailand????

"Thailand has an incredible record of (complicated and) ever changing rules."

Just an additional comment on those few words. It seems to me that "ever changing" thing is a deep syndrome of the Thai psyche. I take 2 examples:

1 - My wife (a lovely Thai woman) - she has a very large and nice house compound with some 150 sq. metres habitable and 1/2 dozen patches around and in between where she grow all sorts of greens. That's really it : "all sorts of greens"! Year X, it's 2 mango trees between house 1 and house 2, Year Y it's cutting those trees out; Year A, it's growing bananas at the back of house 2; Year B it's getting rid of them to plant avocados; Year M, it's growing bamboo between the jackfruit tree and the big tree with beautiful yellow flowers in the court yard, Year N it's cutting the bamboo and replacing with papayas, Year O it's removing the papayas, Year P (now) I just managed to convince her not to cut that big tree with beautiful yellow flowers but phew, that was a short call! --- I'm not telling you about the dozens of modifications by the soi side, you would get sick!

2 - A large Thai organisation I happen to have much contact with a few years ago - They revised their "strategy" just about every single year! Now, anyone knowing about strategy in a big corporation will understand that this is nonsense, by people who have no concept of what strategy is. To make it plain, just imagine you are sending a tanker from say Taipei to Rotterdam; you decide the tanker will sail west through the Indian Ocean, pass Cape Horn, go north along the African coast and so on; Halfway through the journey, just about reaching or passing Cape Horn, you decide now it would be better to sail east, cross the Pacific Ocean, pass through the Magallanes Strait, cross the Atlantic aiming north-east and so on. ----- Get the point? That's how changing strategy too often amounts to.

[OldmanJ]

This is still clear as mud and what about people on marriage and retirement visas? I suspect there will be many hiccups along the way,if it ever successfully works.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Stupid comment alert! 

Obviously the truth hurt.

[sandyf]

59 minutes ago, OldmanJ said:

This is still clear as mud and what about people on marriage and retirement visas?

Electronic Travel Authorisation schemes are about visa waiver arrangements, not visas.

This is how the EU justified their scheme.

 

"for the identification of security, irregular migration or high epidemic risks posed by visa-exempt visitors."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Travel_Information_and_Authorisation_System

 

Every other country will have a similar justification. Some were in the pipeline pre covid which only served to reinforce the policy. Others will have been prompted into action as a result of the pandemic.

Should there be another major outbreak and Thailand had no ETA in place, the forum would have a field day. Always a lose-lose situation. 

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, James9999 said:

My thought as well. How does having to pre-book flights and accommodation differ from applying for a visa? The whole beauty of visa exempt is you can just up and go. Now you will have to risk booking the flight and hope the ETA is approved and approved in a timely manner and have a day by day itinenary to know where to pre-book accommodation. I remember during the covid restrictions desperate people due to fly the next day and still waiting for visa approval. No thank you.

People really ought to bear this in mind. Has it stopped visitors going to the US?

There is an old saying about cake and eating.

Why is it necessary to expand the amount of ESTA information being collected from VWP travelers?

Since 9/11, the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) has evolved from a travel facilitation program concerned about the threat of economic migration to one with more robust security standards that are designed to prevent terrorists and other criminal actors from exploiting the Program. The requirement for all VWP travelers to complete an Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) prior to traveling to the United States was introduced by The Secure Travel and Counterterrorism Partnership Act of 2007 (part of the Implementing Recommendations of the 9/11 Commission Act of 2007, also known as the "9/11 Act") (Pub. L. No. 110-53) to improve the screening of individual travelers from VWP countries.

DHS must be agile and vigilant in continually adapting to evolving threats and hazards. DHS has not made a significant upgrade to the ESTA application in the six years that the system has been in operation, despite a significant evolution in the terrorist and criminal threats to the United States. DHS has determined that the additional data fields to the ESTA application will enhance DHS's ability to screen and more accurately and effectively identify travelers who pose a potential security risk to the homeland. https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/faq?lang=en&focusedTopic=About ESTA and The Visa Waiver Program&answerToDisplay=When should I submit an application through ESTA%3F

[Old Croc]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Though not technically a visa, the ETA will act as a computerized security check,

I have difficulty in seeing a difference between this ETA and an online visa.

When you have to apply for authorization before travel, it seems to be more akin to a visa rather than an exemption.

 

Personally, as a fully (highly) paid up retiree on a long-term visa, I am happy there are to be more restrictions on those who use tourism procedures for residency.  

[CANSIAM]

18 hours ago, James9999 said:

My thought as well. How does having to pre-book flights and accommodation differ from applying for a visa? The whole beauty of visa exempt is you can just up and go. Now you will have to risk booking the flight and hope the ETA is approved and approved in a timely manner and have a day by day itinenary to know where to pre-book accommodation. I remember during the covid restrictions desperate people due to fly the next day and still waiting for visa approval. No thank you.

It appears it's the Thai flip flop again, they want fewer arrivals now.........😉

[khunjeff]

12 hours ago, gearbox said:

I'm just following the lead from the OP which says "much like systems in Malaysia and Cambodia. "

 

The fact is that we don't actually know yet what form this might take. The very vague details given so far indicate that it will only be for visa-exempt travelers, much like the US ESTA. But the OP and others speculate that it could be more akin to an electronic arrival card - like what is used in Malaysia and Cambodia - in which case they could choose to make it mandatory for all arrivals. With this little information available, and no certainty as to whether it will really be introduced at all, there's not much point in speculating. 

 

3 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I have difficulty in seeing a difference between this ETA and an online visa.

When you have to apply for authorization before travel, it seems to be more akin to a visa rather than an exemption.

 

The difference between an ETA and an e-visa has always been pretty vague. For countries that have reciprocal visa waiver agreements, it's been convenient to say "yes, you need advance permission to travel, but no, it's not a visa", so they can introduce new requirements while still claiming to be sticking to the letter of their agreements. But it's really a question of semantics, and how each category is defined in a particular country's laws.

[QPRFC]

I won't comment just yet....I'll wait for the backflip

[VBF]

23 hours ago, sandyf said:

Every question that needs an answer requires that an upload is made, if that is not done you cannot proceed to the next section.

There is nothing to stop blank uploads being made but the poster was wrong to imply it was a standard practice.

If a question cannot be answered then uploading a note as to why would be a better option.

Which is exactly what i did when  I first used the site - just made a jpeg / pdf file containing the required answer.

That was why I queried the blank file in the first place - not something I would have tried, personally. 

[Captain Monday]

4 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I have difficulty in seeing a difference between this ETA and an online visa.

When you have to apply for authorization before travel, it seems to be more akin to a visa rather than an exemption.

 

Personally, as a fully (highly) paid up retiree on a long-term visa, I am happy there are to be more restrictions on those who use tourism procedures for residency.  

The difference is a visa requires Embassy/consular review, and an application fee that is ”non refundable, in all cases”.

ETA are approved online in minutes or hours as a matter of routine, unless you are on some kind of blackist or inadmissable for some reason, the stated point of it all.

[VBF]

20 hours ago, alex8912 said:

And for many people it took a week or more to even get this evisa and many just had to come visa exempt for 30 days because it took so long. It should take an hour or so at most to get an evisa if system is done right. Ever try to get an evisa from Turkey or many other countries? It's quick. 

Tbh Alex, that being a problem would just be poor planning unless you really are taking a last minute trip.

The visa is good for approx 3 months from issue so simply apply earlier.

 

For my February 2024 trip, I applied for my visa 1st January, issued 8th January, good for entry until 6th April.

[James9999]

16 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The abuse of the visa system gives reason for the immigration department to  change its regulations making them more onerous.  Border runners  play the system which inevitably results in  visitors who respect the rules  suffering additional regulations that would not be necessary if people respected the visa rules.

If the system allows you to do it then it is not abuse. If Thailand doesn't want sequential border runs then do something about the system.

 

[grain]

6 minutes ago, James9999 said:

If the system allows you to do it then it is not abuse. If Thailand doesn't want sequential border runs then do something about the system.

 

A couple of weeks ago they made some announcement about becoming a hub for travel to the neighboring countries. That made me scratch my head because that's exactly what Thailand was for decades until they changed the regulations only allowing 2 land border crossings a year. 

[mokwit]

3 minutes ago, grain said:

only allowing 2 land border crossings a year. 

...despite bordering on four other countries.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

For my February 2024 trip, I applied for my visa 1st January, issued 8th January, good for entry until 6th April.

Last Sept I applied about 8pm on a Thursday evening, visa came through about 10 pm on the Saturday, about 50 hours.

Being a Thursday thought I wouldn't see it until middle of following week.

[marquess]

17 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

The abuse of the visa system gives reason for the immigration department to  change its regulations making them more onerous.  Border runners  play the system which inevitably results in  visitors who respect the rules  suffering additional regulations that would not be necessary if people respected the visa rules.

They'd save themselves a lot of hassle if the actually issued people who qualified with long term visas. People try to game the system because of its largely absurd in nature. I remember back in 2001 working with a guy who had a daughter with Thai nationaltiy but struggled to stay here. Things are worse than 2001 and I don't see them getting any better. Married for decades and still renewing visas every year, the mark of an absurd system.

[bamnutsak]

When they were proposing adding a 300 baht fee they ran into problems with how to collect it, and how to avoid having Thais pay.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40038663

 

Problem solved with a fee for the ETA.

 

So the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Transport gets his slush fund.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alex8912]

5 hours ago, VBF said:

Tbh Alex, that being a problem would just be poor planning unless you really are taking a last minute trip.

The visa is good for approx 3 months from issue so simply apply earlier.

 

For my February 2024 trip, I applied for my visa 1st January, issued 8th January, good for entry until 6th April.

No Evisa should take a week ( or longer). You just proved my point and also proved the incompetence of the Thai Evisa system compared to most other countries sending the visa almost instantly or within 24 hours. Great for you VBF and the completely planned life YOU and only you have. 

[Seismic]

On 9/6/2024 at 12:27 PM, Scouse123 said:

So, I suppose us on long term extensions are not part of all this?

No, of course not, it is similar to the US program which has been around for at least 15 years. 

[Seismic]

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

The difference is a visa requires Embassy/consular review, and an application fee that is ”non refundable, in all cases”.

ETA are approved online in minutes or hours as a matter of routine, unless you are on some kind of blackist or inadmissable for some reason, the stated point of it all.

Minutes or Hours... ROTFLMAO, I remember when the US introduced the ETA, and also promised approval in minutes or hours. I never had one approval in less than 24 yours. So you think Thai immigration can do better?

[Patong2021]

5 hours ago, James9999 said:

If the system allows you to do it then it is not abuse. If Thailand doesn't want sequential border runs then do something about the system.

 

ok. And the new  format will address that. The immigration department will now be able to see how many times a person comes and goes and for how long.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

On 9/6/2024 at 8:25 AM, Satcommlee said:

Interesting, so this could impact a lot of people staying long term without the right visa, now instead of getting warning at immigration, they won't even let you on the plane...

That's actually a good change from the current system where an IO can deny you based on how they feel today. I suspect the people checking these applications will be a bit more liberal in approving them, unless an actual official quota is declared. It's really the IOs that made up all the unwritten rules "come too much" - it's defined anywhere in law or rule.

[PingRoundTheWorld]

6 hours ago, James9999 said:

If the system allows you to do it then it is not abuse. If Thailand doesn't want sequential border runs then do something about the system.

Why are you assuming the current administration is concerned about sequential visa runs? the military government and immigration officials they appointed had a stick up their *** about it, but historically there was no problem doing sequential border runs indefinitely before the coup, and Thaksin always wanted foreigners (money) coming in AFAIK.

[Chivas]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:37 AM, malibukid said:

good guys in bad guys out

 

You have to assume there will be a criminal record check as with the USA version

[Old Croc]

8 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

The difference is a visa requires Embassy/consular review, and an application fee that is ”non refundable, in all cases”.

ETA are approved online in minutes or hours as a matter of routine, unless you are on some kind of blackist or inadmissable for some reason, the stated point of it all.

Of course there are some minor differences with an electronic visa, although I consider your statement that one is reviewed by an Embassy and the other not, to be inaccurate. The computer programs for both belong to the Thai government and will be similar. They don't go across someone's desk to receive a stamp of approval; they are computer processed. Obviously, there isn't a fee with this one. I can assure you all countries' electronic visas involve comparison with Alert Lists. That's a major part of the processing.