Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[bullseye66]

On 9/7/2024 at 7:53 PM, Danderman123 said:

All of my worldwide income is taxed in the USA, so no tax is due Thailand.

Tell me you don't understand taxation.... without telling me you don't understand taxation.

[Card]

On 9/8/2024 at 12:53 AM, Danderman123 said:

All of my worldwide income is taxed in the USA, so no tax is due Thailand.

No. The tax u pay outside thailand is just credited for thailand tax

[soalbundy]

4 hours ago, proton said:

 

Wise does not show up as a foreign transfer on my account, nor the Mrs

I believe wise is also included in the CRS agreement as a vehicle of money transfer. There seems to be a false assumption here that a banks confidentially duty can hide your assets, CRS has done away with that as far as taxation is concerned. 

[TimBKK]

6 hours ago, gearbox said:

In Australia your banks etc won't provide CRS summaries unless you indicate you are a tax resident of a specific country. The Thai tax office won't get the income details of all Australians, only those who declared they are Thai tax residents.

Thanks.  I wonder if that is Australia-specific or a general CRS policy?  The data exchange mechanism of CRS seems rather opaque, intentionally so I suspect.

[4MyEgo]

A lot of noise being made.

 

1st they want to tax us on income remitted, ok, I have found a way around that one, so no tax to them.

 

2nd they now want to tax us on our worldwide income, ok then, I have found a way around that too.

 

My home country has a generous tax free threshold, so when I combine my wife and myself on what I earn in a given year, that means that I would pay about 15k baht tax in my home country, of which Thailand would get sweet F A.

 

Now you say, how can I change residencies when I live here for over 180 days, well all I got to do is say, I now intend on returning to my home country shortly and then start lodging tax returns annually, and of course prove that I have family there, a current drivers licence, Medicare card, Club memberships, etc, which shouldn't be too hard to do if ever questioned.

 

When I return, will be up to me.

 

Bring it on Thailand, you will get as I said above, sweet F A 🙂

 

 

Edited September 9 by 4MyEgo

[Wrwest]

On 9/8/2024 at 10:04 AM, proton said:

I would rather die than give these buggers in power any income tax, so leaving for 6 months is certainly an option, even if it costs more.

I'm thinking the Thai Wife and I will relocate to a different country in my retirement. No problem. And Thailand looses my annual spending and support. As is oft said in Thailand ... up to you.

[crazykopite]

Looks like it’s time to move on to a more welcoming country when I arrived here 19 years ago the money I had I knew one day I could loose but that money I quadrupled having purchased and sold properties so I cannot complain . The beachfront property I have can earn me a very good return or I will just board it up for a couple of years . I’ve always fancied living in the Philippines where I can contribute to their economy ! Having said all that I’m a UK taxpayer of which Thailand has a long standing agreement but it’s always good to be prepared if the S * * * hits the fan ! South Korea is a beautiful country but having experienced a winter there it’s crossed off my list I’ve always fancied Langkawi as well but in the Philippines at least my OAP will no longer be frozen !   

Edited September 9 by crazykopite

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

A lot of noise being made.

 

1st they want to tax us on income remitted, ok, I have found a way around that one, so no tax to them.

 

2nd they now want to tax us on our worldwide income, ok then, I have found a way around that too.

 

My home country has a generous tax free threshold, so when I combine my wife and myself on what I earn in a given year, that means that I would pay about 15k baht tax in my home country, of which Thailand would get sweet F A.

 

Now you say, how can I change residencies when I live here for over 180 days, well all I got to do is say, I now intend to return to my home country and start lodging tax returns annually, and of course prove that I have family there, a current drivers licence, Medicare card, Club memberships, etc, which shouldn't be too hard to do if ever questioned.

 

Bring it on Thailand, you will get as I said above, sweet F A 🙂

 

 

1st they want to tax us on income remitted, ok, I have found a way around that one, so no tax to them.

 

Presumably they will still go after the money you bring into Thailand in order to obtain your visa extensions ? How do you avoid tax on that?

 

If you would be so kind.

[Andrew65]

Live on an overseas bank's plastic?

[bullseye66]

On 9/8/2024 at 5:36 AM, Pouatchee said:

 

can be, but been with her long enough and i trust her in that regards. cant say the same about too many thai ladies... will have to wait and see

Ah the old.....but she's different 😂. Don't tell me....she's a dentist receptionist.....or works in a hotel.🤣🤣🤣

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, crazykopite said:

Looks like it’s time to move on to a more welcoming country when I arrived here 19 years ago the money I had I knew one day I could loose but that money I quadrupled having purchased and sold properties so I cannot complain . The beachfront property I have can earn me a very good return or I will just board it up for a couple of years . I’ve always fancied a living in the Philippines where I can contribute to their economy ! Having said al that I’m a UK taxpayer of which Thailand has a long standing agreement but it’s always good to be prepared if the S * * * hits the fan 

 

They've been talking about a Farang tax (10-20%) on condo/home buying/sales, plus Farang only property taxes. You may wish to sell before they give that a try, it appears they are after every penny they can squeeze out of Farang's.

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, Srikcir said:

In the US your foreign tax credit can't exceed your US tax liability. In other words on your US tax return you can't have a negative tax liability. 

 

Ezzackly the problem!  All my income has already been taxed by the IRS.  I just happen to have zero tax liability according to IRS rules.

 

Thailand now wants a second go at taxing the same income, which is perfectly legal according to the DTA, and will assess $10K in tax.

 

Per DTA, i can claim a tax credit, but no tax paid = no credit.

 

 

[Andrew65]

2 minutes ago, bullseye66 said:

Ah the old.....but she's different 😂. Don't tell me....she's a dentist receptionist.....or works in a hotel.🤣🤣🤣

I met my ex-gf when she was working as a hotel receptionist, I was kind of living in the hotel. Some of my old mates had Thai wives & gf's who were ordinary women with ordinary jobs, they do actually exist in Thailand!😊

[malt25]

3 hours ago, malt25 said:

I have little understanding of this subject. One question I would ask. Doesn't the taxation agreement betwen Thailand and 60 other countries contradict the new legislation ?

What exactly in my post is confusing ?

[Celsius]

I just want to understand something crystal clear. If the law passes as described in the article, I have until March 2025 to leave without filing tax return?

[norsurin]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:47 PM, tomacht8 said:

In 2023, the inflow of foreign direct investment (FDI) in Thailand was around 4.6 billion US dollars. The outflow in the same year was around 10.4 billion US dollars.

Thailand reported the lowest real economic growth in all of Southeast Asia in the first quarter of 2024 at 1.5 percent compared to the same period last year. But the weak economic performance is no surprise. Thailand has been at the bottom of the region in terms of GDP growth for several years.

 

And now the RD wants to drive away the well-off long-term visitors, and who will now transfer money to Thailand to buy a condo or Thai stocks. That's just blind.

The next is about condos etc etc..they will take it from foreigners..at least tax that too.

[Metapod]

4 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

For any concerned Aussies .  Australia has a double tax agreement with Thailand, so if taxed in Australia, you do not pay tax in Thailand... 

 

That's not how DTA works.

[crazykopite]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:26 PM, CallumWK said:

Time to empty my Thai bank accounts

I keep very little in mine just transfer what I need from wise and when it arrives it’s withdrawn in days to pay all my bills and what’s left is in my wallet 

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I keep very little in mine just transfer what I need from wise and when it arrives it’s withdrawn in days to pay all my bills and what’s left is in my wallet 

 

As I understand it.....if it goes into your Thai bank account it is potentially taxable.....cash from the ATM is not.

[gearbox]

14 minutes ago, TimBKK said:

Thanks.  I wonder if that is Australia-specific or a general CRS policy?  The data exchange mechanism of CRS seems rather opaque, intentionally so I suspect.

in Australia it is opaque intentionally. If you look at the ATO data matching initiatives they are scarcely documented. The AUSTRAC tracking is also not very well documented. Many people don't know that AUSTRAC does NOT record and track foreign ATM withdrawals. The CRS data exchange formats are standardized but afaik there are no universal rules how the data is collected. I suspect that every country will try to send as little as possible CRS data, and receive as much as possible.

[Andrew65]

3 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I keep very little in mine just transfer what I need from wise and when it arrives it’s withdrawn in days to pay all my bills and what’s left is in my wallet 

What about those who are 'seasoning' 800k Baht annually for their retirement visa?

[jwest10]

I was just seeing the a senior of the local Tax Revenue office on my shopping exercise and immediately recognized me and was just generally bringing up this issue, once again and he stated what new forms and also mentioned again that not employed in Thailand and was asking do I need a Tin but do have a pink card.
He seemed to not know nothing about the new forms and rumored to be printed Oct/Nov

Suggested I just sit tight and it appears you will not be required to file a  tax form but it depends who one talks too and all have their own opinions but many are unaware of this ex-pat tax issue,
Yes, indeed just going to hang fire and not do anything and have calculated near the thresholds and allowances
 

[Wrwest]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:45 AM, Dogmatix said:

 

That's right in the case of US SS pensions and pensions from US government, state or local government employment because the US has the sole right to tax this income in the DTA.  I am know about 401K.  If no specifically exempted in the DTA, it would be taxable in Thailand.

 

Unfortunately very few other farang countries negotiated to exempt state pensions in their DTAs like the US did.  You will find that nearly all exempt only pensions from government employment.  However, it is arguable whether foreign state pensions are taxable because the wording in Section 40 covering pensions specifies only pensions from employment. It doesn't specify pensions that are not from employment.  Perhaps they will argue that the UK state pension is indirectly from employment because yhou don't get it, if you haven't worked.  But other pensions like the Australian Superannuation cannot be regarded as pension from employment because it is now payable to slackers who have never worked a day in their lives.  I wonder, if they will amend the wording to cover all foreign pensions but I doubt it as they are very lazy thinkers and probably haven't got round to this year.

As a US citizen, my reading of Article 40 & 41 of our tax treaty, appears to exempt my Social Security and retirement funds (from having taught in the state education system). I and my Thai Wife will await concrete results on this matter. Bottom line, I am at home in several global cultures. I was looking for a long term retirement home when I left my home in the USA. Thailand ... up to you. It has been a mutually beneficial relationship but, I am not a prisoner to any country/culture and while not wealthy, there were other countries I had considered before coming to live here in Chiang Mai.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, malt25 said:

I have little understanding of this subject. One question I would ask. Doesn't the taxation agreement betwen Thailand and 60 other countries contradict the new legislation ?

Obviusly - the reason for this change to worldwide income taxation is because so many people have never or do not pay income taxes to any country..  Taxation agreements need to be read by the expats from whatever country they come from so that they know if they have to pay taxes in their country or to Thailand if they are a tax-resident here.

[jwest10]

20 minutes ago, Wrwest said:

I'm thinking the Thai Wife and I will relocate to a different country in my retirement. No problem. And Thailand looses my annual spending and support. As is oft said in Thailand ... up to you.

Well said about supporting our wonderful Thai families and their economy but they conveniently forget about that don't they?

[Pouatchee]

19 minutes ago, bullseye66 said:

Ah the old.....but she's different 😂. Don't tell me....she's a dentist receptionist.....or works in a hotel.🤣🤣🤣

 

and why do you care?

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, mdr224 said:

I dont live in thailand. But if i did, i wouldnt pay tax. Thats just me though. How many thai people pay taxes? Not many i imagine

most are probably below the minimum amount to be assessable as income here is very low for the majority.  But, there are probably quite a few that have been working the system to avoid paying any taxes on income to any country, thus the new taxation scheme here and I am sure in other countries too.

[4MyEgo]

21 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Presumably they will still go after the money you bring into Thailand in order to obtain your visa extensions ? How do you avoid tax on that?

 

If you would be so kind.

 

Those funds have been in the bank since prior to 31/12/2023 and will stay there.

 

I live on rice and fish caught from the river, one meal a day 🙂

 

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

This law was probably made to specially target something. Maybe China has been in talks with Thailand to help them catch tax evaders and draw them back home? who knows.

Yeah possibly as China was a signatory to that OECD agreement of 2023 like the other 137 countries.

[nglodnig]

somehow I don't think I will be wading through 18 pages of informed and intelligent comments