Thai Khmer - is it alive anywhere in South Isaan?

[henrik2000]

Hello, can you name any precise Thai locations where there is Khmer language and perhaps Khmer culture (if different from Thai) alive in Isaan (not in Cambodia)?

I do NOT mean:

- Khmer *temples* like Phanom Rung

- whole provinces like Buriram, Surin, Sisaket

but exact towns, villages or districts where Khmer can be heard on the street (if any).

I did meet Thai Khmers speaking Khmer (differing from Cambodian Khmer) in Southern Thailand as "migrant workers". And I have been to southern parts of each Buriram, Surin, Sisaket provinces before (cities, villages, Khmer temples), but there I don't remember meeting anything Thai-Khmer. I can easily distinguish between Khmer and Thai languages and I speak some Khmer, Thai Khmer and Thai.

Could you

- mention certain towns or clear locations where Thai Khmer is alive

- say with authority that Thai Khmer isn't spoken publicly anymore in TH?

Thanks!

[theblether]

You mention Buriram, I don't know anyone from that area that can't speak Khmer. However, they are indistinguishable from Thais. If you want to see a modern version of a Thai-Khmer festival attend the Ascent of Phanom Rung Hill. 

 

 

[Chadnik]

It prolly be Buriram, Sisakhet like you mentioned

 

I suspect back in 80s it was much more prevalent with all the post KR turmoil. That was a long time ago

 

Thai love Thai and even the poors love Thai because despite being poor AF they are not Khmien and even poorer than F.

 

The yellow shirts have provoked hostilities for decades.

 

Never met any pub staff that could speak Khmer. .

 

My 2 satang

Edited September 15 by Chadnik

[mfd101]

In my b/f's village - Khok Salaeng in Phanom Dong Rak part of sth Surin - the old folk speak mainly Khmer amongst themselves. My MIL (age c80) also speaks rural Thai. My PIL (age 78) speaks Thai with a heavy accent and is much more comfortable in Khmer. Neither of them is literate in either language. Their offspring of multiple marriages (ages 60 down to my b/f at 35) all speak both Khmer & Thai and swap back and forth in mid-conversation as they choose. They are mostly illiterate or semi-literate in Thai only. Their older kids in turn mostly understand Khmer but seldom speak it and often refuse to do so, subject as they are to heavy nationalist propaganda at school.

 

In other words, Thai Khmer is steadily dying out.

 

Lao speakers are also common throughout south Surin but - if not in the towns - mostly live in separate neighbouring villages unless intermarried.

Edited September 15 by mfd101

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

If you spend any amount of time in Kantharalak town in Sisaket Province, you'll hear the northern Khmer dialect spoken.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15 by Etaoin Shrdlu

[Lorry]

Grandma's burial in a village in Ban Kruat followed Khmer customs, 

Her grandchildren are all literate in Thai, speak Thai at the Amphur or with the bank. They have a Khmer accent, which sometimes leads to discrimination. In the family,  Khmer is preferred (a lot of code switching,  as someone else posted).

 

Similar in the villages of A. meuang, Surin.

[bunnydrops]

Some of the villages north of Korat still speak a  Mon dialect from northern Cambodia. My wife still speaks some with her friends. I don't think there is much culture from there, but I don't think I would be able to know if there was a difference.

[youreavinalaff]

All through Buriram, Surin and Sissaket you'll find Khmer speaking villages.

 

Southern areas of those provinces will have more Khmer villages but also Issan Laos, Thai Korat and Gui.

 

Sadly, these languages, possibly with the exception of Issan Laos, are dying languages. My wife speaks Khmer to her family but our daughter, although fully understanding Khmer, chooses to speak Thai.

[henrik2000]

Hi all, thanks for some good information!

[Gottfrid]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:05 PM, henrik2000 said:

Hello, can you name any precise Thai locations where there is Khmer language and perhaps Khmer culture (if different from Thai) alive in Isaan (not in Cambodia)?

 

I do NOT mean:

 

- Khmer *temples* like Phanom Rung

 

- whole provinces like Buriram, Surin, Sisaket

 

but exact towns, villages or districts where Khmer can be heard on the street (if any).

 

I did meet Thai Khmers speaking Khmer (differing from Cambodian Khmer) in Southern Thailand as "migrant workers". And I have been to southern parts of each Buriram, Surin, Sisaket provinces before (cities, villages, Khmer temples), but there I don't remember meeting anything Thai-Khmer. I can easily distinguish between Khmer and Thai languages and I speak some Khmer, Thai Khmer and Thai.

 

Could you

 

- mention certain towns or clear locations where Thai Khmer is alive

 

- say with authority that Thai Khmer isn't spoken publicly anymore in TH?

 

Thanks!

 

Gee Dude! it is in the mentioned provinces you find the cities you are looking for. Try Buriram city, Sisaket city and Surin city. Did that help? 😂

[n00dle]

On 9/15/2024 at 9:02 PM, mfd101 said:

In my b/f's village - Khok Salaeng in Phanom Dong Rak part of sth Surin - the old folk speak mainly Khmer amongst themselves. My MIL (age c80) also speaks rural Thai. My PIL (age 78) speaks Thai with a heavy accent and is much more comfortable in Khmer. Neither of them is literate in either language. Their offspring of multiple marriages (ages 60 down to my b/f at 35) all speak both Khmer & Thai and swap back and forth in mid-conversation as they choose. They are mostly illiterate or semi-literate in Thai only. Their older kids in turn mostly understand Khmer but seldom speak it and often refuse to do so, subject as they are to heavy nationalist propaganda at school.

 

In other words, Thai Khmer is steadily dying out.

 

Lao speakers are also common throughout south Surin but - if not in the towns - mostly live in separate neighbouring villages unless intermarried.

 

many in Surin, especilaly older folk speak Suay

[MalcolmB]

On 9/15/2024 at 7:18 PM, theblether said:

You mention Buriram, I don't know anyone from that area that can't speak Khmer.

Buriram is one of the northeastern provinces with a sizable Northern Khmer population. The Isan language is spoken by most, but according to the most recent census 27.6% of the population also speak Northern Khmer in everyday life.

[mfd101]

59 minutes ago, n00dle said:

 

many in Surin, especilaly older folk speak Suay

Not sure about 'many'. A small minority, I would say, including the wife of one of my Khmer family's sons. Noone in the family can understand a word of it, despite its connections to Khmer.

[theblether]

1 hour ago, MalcolmB said:

Buriram is one of the northeastern provinces with a sizable Northern Khmer population. The Isan language is spoken by most, but according to the most recent census 27.6% of the population also speak Northern Khmer in everyday life.

 

As I said, I don't know anyone that doesn't speak Khmer in that area. Whether they use it as their primary daily language is doubtful. 

[MalcolmB]

7 minutes ago, theblether said:

 

As I said, I don't know anyone that doesn't speak Khmer in that area. Whether they use it as their primary daily language is doubtful. 

Can you speak it? 
or are you speculating from your “feelings” 

[proton]

Surin, all our family speak Khmer, but north, next village they mostly speak Lao in Roi Et. Home of kantrum. Darkie very famous singer from Surin sadly died in 2003.

 

 

Authentic kantrum

 

 

Edited September 17 by proton

[theblether]

25 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Can you speak it? 
or are you speculating from your “feelings” 

 

Are you drunk? Maybe a touch of dementia or a wee bit of lifetime IQ problems kicking in? 

 

There is nothing controversial in my comment. The people I know from Buriram can speak Khmer and I don't know if they use it as their daily primary language. 

 

The end.  

[henrik2000]

41 minutes ago, proton said:

Darkie very famous singer from Surin sadly died in 2003.

Thanks, Darkie's song is great. I toured many a Tawan Daeng, temple fair etc. etc., but it rarely comes so graceful (when performed live with audience).

[proton]

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, henrik2000 said:

Thanks, Darkie's song is great. I toured many a Tawan Daeng, temple fair etc. etc., but it rarely comes so graceful (when performed live with audience).

 

Sadly not much kantrum is heard outside of Surin etc, great when Lamyai started to sing Darkie songs last year, but now changed the song line up, hope she brings it back.

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, n00dle said:

 

many in Surin, especilaly older folk speak Suay

Gui, to be perfectly correct.

 

The language of the elephant herders.The lesser spoken of the Isaan dialects. The number of speakers less than those that speak Khmer.

Edited September 17 by youreavinalaff

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Gee Dude! it is in the mentioned provinces you find the cities you are looking for. Try Buriram city, Sisaket city and Surin city. Did that help? 😂

Unlikely. For one point, there are no cities in the provinces you mention.

 

Secondly, Khmer is mostly spoken, day to day as the OP requested, in the areas outside of town.

 

[Gottfrid]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Unlikely. For one point, there are no cities in the provinces you mention.

 

Secondly, Khmer is mostly spoken, day to day as the OP requested, in the areas outside of town.

 

You must have a serious hick-up! I have lived in Surin and Buriram, and I am pretty sure Sisaket is a city as well as they have buses going there. I also know for a fact there is a lot of people who speak khmer in those cities. So, I guess you are mistaken.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

October First this year is "offerings to ancestors day" in Khmer culture. Called Pchum Ben in standard Khmer and Hau Doan Ta in at least some versions of northern Khmer dialect. I'm not aware of any public ceremonies.

[proton]

12 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

October First this year is "offerings to ancestors day" in Khmer culture. Called Pchum Ben in standard Khmer and Hau Doan Ta in at least some versions of northern Khmer dialect. I'm not aware of any public ceremonies.

 

They always play this celebration song on the day, different dates each year tied to the moon like loy kratong. No idea what the song is about.

 

Edited September 17 by proton

[youreavinalaff]

21 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

You must have a serious hick-up! I have lived in Surin and Buriram, and I am pretty sure Sisaket is a city as well as they have buses going there. I also know for a fact there is a lot of people who speak khmer in those cities. So, I guess you are mistaken.

There is only on city in Thailand. That is Bangkok. 

 

In Thai language, city is "Mahanakorn". There is nowhere with that suffix in Buriram, Surin or Sissaket.

 

I have lived in Buriram for over 24 years. I also regularly visit Surin. I speak Thai and I understand Khmer language to a point and can assure you in the town centres I mostly hear Thai. As one moves away from the town, heading north the dialect changes mainly to Isaan Laos. Heading south there is a mix of Isaan Laos and Khmer. In some villages around  Satuk and Chom Phra area you'll hear Gui, as that this where the Elephant herders are from. There are a few other areas where there are Gui speakers, Srikoraphum being one, but not so many.

 

The reason Thai is more prevalent in the town centres is those that speak Isaan Laos cannot understand Khmer. The same cannot be said the other way round. Hence, if there is a group of people who speak various dialects, Thai language is the means of communication. This does not happen in the villages as they are generally single dialect, plus Thai language, places.

 

I don't recall saying dialects are not spoken in the town centres. I said they are "mostly" spoken in the areas outside town.

 

 

Edited September 18 by youreavinalaff

[Gottfrid]

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

There is only on city in Thailand. That is Bangkok. 

 

In Thai language, city is "Mahanakorn". There is nowhere with that suffix in Buriram, Surin or Sissaket.

Really!? I can hear you have totally lost the plot. I will leave you with that. Take care.

[youreavinalaff]

6 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Really!? I can hear you have totally lost the plot. I will leave you with that. Take care.

Not lost the plot at all.

 

If you don't understand fundamental Thai language, it's not my fault.

 

[cranki]

8 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Really!? I can hear you have totally lost the plot. I will leave you with that. Take care.

Just consider yourself "schooled" .....Mr "Gottfrid".....and leave it at that  🙂

[Gottfrid]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Not lost the plot at all.

 

If you don't understand fundamental Thai language, it's not my fault.

 

 

2 hours ago, cranki said:

Just consider yourself "schooled" .....Mr "Gottfrid".....and leave it at that  🙂

 

I am sorry, but in common and daily speak, we refer to towns as cities. In reality no difference, but if you wish to pick on something, there you guys have something to hold on to.

[youreavinalaff]

6 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

 

 

I am sorry, but in common and daily speak, we refer to towns as cities. In reality no difference, but if you wish to pick on something, there you guys have something to hold on to.

"We".

 

Maybe you do. 

 

I live in a town. I've never heard anyone refer to it as a city.

Edited September 19 by youreavinalaff