Lets do comprehensive immigration reform. Whatever happwned to American can do spirit?

9 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

If all "illegals" were deported, I wonder who would work in meatpacking plants, construction sites, pick fruits and vegetables in the hot sun, and perform all kinds of menial jobs that native Americans either shun or are too strung out on fentanyl or meth to do.

 

Even Trump hires them for his projects and facilities:  https://wapo.st/481hgNa

The ones that enter legally as guest workers.

8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I agree that stricter border controls are necessary. A law was formulated to work towards that. It had bipartisan support including many Trump supporters in congress, but Trump killed it because it would destroy one of his talking points for his re-election campaign. 

 

There was no bipartisan support.  They had a token Repub on the committee that wrote the bill.  When the bill allowed for 5000 illegals a day before action was required at the border, it was DOA.  With or without Trump's input. 

 

It was mostly about spending money on bringing newcomers in and processing them into voters faster.

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The ones that enter legally as guest workers.

 

Why aren't the industries that currently rely upon "illegals" employing legal guest workers instead?  

 

Should there be harsher penalties for employing those without permission to work? 

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Lets do comprehensive immigration reform. Whatever happwned to American can do spirit?

What does that mean exactly, other than being a political catchphrase?

When did the US stop deporting unauthorized immigrants because the last I saw, the US was still deporting people.

11 hours ago, riclag said:

56%  of all registered voters strongly or somewhat favor mass deportations of 

immigrants living in the country illegally.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/

 

If harris is Potus ,I hope she adheres to

 what the majority of registered  voters agree on!

 

 

If 56% of voters favor mass deportations, Harris ain't going to be POTUS 

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

When did the US stop deporting unauthorized immigrants because the last I saw, the US was still deporting people.

 

Sure.  But they're paroling millions into the country, with immigration hearing dates scheduled years and years into the future. 

 

That's just mean, unless they have a plan to let them stay...  They should be turned at the border, not after they have settled in, at a cost of $$trillions to the taxpayers.

 

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Lets do comprehensive immigration reform. Whatever happwned to American can do spirit?

Sure. Close the border, deport all those already here, and then start a new process.

 

 

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

What does that mean exactly, other than being a political catchphrase?

It means good faith bipartisan compromise based on realistic understanding of the current situation with humanitarian values mixed with the goal of enhancing the economy. 

 

Definitely not deporting 20 millon people tearimg apart families and destroying the economy but all serious criminals of course.

 

A long and hard stepped path towards citizenship for well behaved undocumented already in the US. Do not incentivize entering illegally.

 

Rapid trials for asylum claimants.

 

Change the paradigm to a dramatic increase in legal immigration applicants done at embassiez abroad. Increase skills merit based policies like Australia. 

 

Secure the border with barrlers and electronically depending on the geography.

 

 

 

I found many articles online that state that immigrant labor is a net positive for the US economy. This is but one example:

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/do-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/

 

Most articles with this viewpoint come from organizations that could be called "left of center", so I kept looking for articles that were written by organizations that come from the right of the political spectrum and found this:

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/three-reasons-why-immigrants-arent-going-take-job

 

Granted, Cato is Libertarian, but to me that's right-wing on steroids.

 

Then I came across this economist's article in Politico:

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/

 

He's a bit of an outlier, but I find his arguments interesting.  I note Borjas does not call for building a border wall or for mass deportation or curtailing immigration. Instead he seems to be in favor of redistributing the surplus profits that immigrant labor generates via taxes.

 

Then I found this article that would seem to undermine at least part of Borjas's position:

 

https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/immigrant-and-native-workers-compete-different-low-skilled-jobs

 

I haven't yet found any serious articles from credible sources that promote the idea that mass deportation of immigrants is beneficial to America or to any segment of the labor force. 

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah they'll really love it when produce prices double and all their favorite restaurants close.

 

Next 

...

Who's going to clean my car on a freezing  Sunday morning for half the price ?

17 hours ago, Cameroni said:

The mainstream media will paint him as Satan when it happens.

This is how the left’s propaganda machine distorts reality. Imop

 

2 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I found many articles online that state that immigrant labor is a net positive for the US economy. This is but one example:

 

I don't know of anyone that's against immigration.  Properly vetted, knowing who you're letting in, and making sure they won't be going on the dole for life.  But that's yesterday's immigration policy.

 

Most of us are against opening the border and letting Venezuela (and before that, Castro) empty their prisons so they can enjoy a nice decrease in violent crime in the home country.  Not to mention thousands from Iran, (et al) and other adversarial regimes that may not have the USA's best interest at heart.

 

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I don't know of anyone that's against immigration.  Properly vetted, knowing who you're letting in, and making sure they won't be going on the dole for life.  But that's yesterday's immigration policy.

 

Most of us are against opening the border and letting Venezuela (and before that, Castro) empty their prisons so they can enjoy a nice decrease in violent crime in the home country.  Not to mention thousands from Iran, (et al) and other adversarial regimes that may not have the USA's best interest at heart.

 

The “left” no human being is illegal !

23 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I don't know of anyone that's against immigration.  Properly vetted, knowing who you're letting in, and making sure they won't be going on the dole for life.  But that's yesterday's immigration policy.

 

Most of us are against opening the border and letting Venezuela (and before that, Castro) empty their prisons so they can enjoy a nice decrease in violent crime in the home country.  Not to mention thousands from Iran, (et al) and other adversarial regimes that may not have the USA's best interest at heart.

 

 

As I said previously, I have no issue with having control over who comes into the US.  My point is that mass deportation would have a severe negative impact on the US economy.

 

While I found an article that supports the theory that some native Americans are affected by immigrant labor, I can't find any articles that say mass deportation would be a positive factor for the US economy or for any segment of the labor force.

 

I am troubled by statements like "poisoning the blood of our country" used in reference to immigrants, which are quite reminiscent of the rhetoric of a certain Austrian fellow in the last century. These words rise above dog whistle. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

While I found an article that supports the theory that some native Americans are affected by immigrant labor, I can't find any articles that say mass deportation would be a positive factor for the US economy or for any segment of the labor force.

 

Eric Adams of NYC said the quiet part out loud when he requested $12 Billion federal dollars to help NYC care for the 110,000 "newcomers" in his city, for 3 years.  That's $36K a head per year. 

 

While I am open to the possibility that he was padding the numbers a little bit, if you multiply $36K times 10 million illegals, you're talking real money.  That's $360 billion a year.  With the USA already in debt to the tune of $35 Trillion, we simply can't afford it.

 

Some of us suspect that's why he's being punished with accusations of corruption.  He was a party hero right up until he exposed the true cost of the Harris/Biden migrant crisis.  And it's not like the "corruption" he's accused of is unusual in politics.

 

Personally, I'd like to see them start with the convicted criminals, then move onto the parasites, then (and only then) deport the ones that aren't contributing more than they're costing.  But that's not my job to decide.

 

17 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

If all "illegals" were deported, I wonder who would work in meatpacking plants, construction sites, pick fruits and vegetables in the hot sun, and perform all kinds of menial jobs that native Americans either shun or are too strung out on fentanyl or meth to do.

 

Even Trump hires them for his projects and facilities:  https://wapo.st/481hgNa

 

That would be legal immigrants on the visa types that support this type of work. 

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Eric Adams of NYC said the quiet part out loud when he requested $12 Billion federal dollars to help NYC care for the 110,000 "newcomers" in his city, for 3 years.  That's $36K a head per year. 

 

While I am open to the possibility that he was padding the numbers a little bit, if you multiply $36K times 10 million illegals, you're talking real money.  That's $360 billion a year.  With the USA already in debt to the tune of $35 Trillion, we simply can't afford it.

 

Some of us suspect that's why he's being punished with accusations of corruption.  He was a party hero right up until he exposed the true cost of the Harris/Biden migrant crisis.  And it's not like the "corruption" he's accused of is unusual in politics.

 

Personally, I'd like to see them start with the convicted criminals, then move onto the parasites, then (and only then) deport the ones that aren't contributing more than they're costing.  But that's not my job to decide.

 

Jesusmary&joseph! Wow!  Way to go!  You come offering facts with receipts 

40 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

As I said previously, I have no issue with having control over who comes into the US.  My point is that mass deportation would have a severe negative impact on the US economy.

 

While I found an article that supports the theory that some native Americans are affected by immigrant labor, I can't find any articles that say mass deportation would be a positive factor for the US economy or for any segment of the labor force.

 

I am troubled by statements like "poisoning the blood of our country" used in reference to immigrants, which are quite reminiscent of the rhetoric of a certain Austrian fellow in the last century. These words rise above dog whistle. 

 

 

No need to sugar coat it. Much of Trump's rhetotic matches the Nazis exactly.

4 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I found many articles online that state that immigrant labor is a net positive for the US economy. This is but one example:

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/do-immigrants-steal-jobs-from-american-workers/

 

Most articles with this viewpoint come from organizations that could be called "left of center", so I kept looking for articles that were written by organizations that come from the right of the political spectrum and found this:

 

https://www.cato.org/blog/three-reasons-why-immigrants-arent-going-take-job

 

Granted, Cato is Libertarian, but to me that's right-wing on steroids.

 

Then I came across this economist's article in Politico:

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216/

 

He's a bit of an outlier, but I find his arguments interesting.  I note Borjas does not call for building a border wall or for mass deportation or curtailing immigration. Instead he seems to be in favor of redistributing the surplus profits that immigrant labor generates via taxes.

 

Then I found this article that would seem to undermine at least part of Borjas's position:

 

https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/immigrant-and-native-workers-compete-different-low-skilled-jobs

 

I haven't yet found any serious articles from credible sources that promote the idea that mass deportation of immigrants is beneficial to America or to any segment of the labor force. 

 

 

 

 

Mass deportation is to enforce the Rule of Law. 

 

No one is above the law.

49 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Mass deportation is to enforce the Rule of Law. 

 

 

 

And to avoid "poisoning the blood", right?

Does not matter a bit since he won't be president anyway.

@riclag what ya conna do after the elections?

33 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

And to avoid "poisoning the blood", right?

Well yeah, in a rhetorical sense, not the National Socialist left wing racist sense.

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Well yeah, in a rhetorical sense, not the National Socialist left wing racist sense.

 

No difference.

26 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

Does not matter a bit since he won't be president anyway.

@riclag what ya conna do after the elections?

The same thing he does now..respond to the frothing screaming hate spews while giggling at the losers and admiring the Trump landslide, then go to the grocery store and get eggs cheap.

 

I have to go back to the USA in December for some biz, I may buy a car just to enjoy the cheap gas next summer when I take my hot season break.

Just now, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

No difference.

 yeah there is, but the leftist folks screeching about that turn of phrase are just projecting their own left wing racial viewpoints.

18 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Undocumented immigrants only contribute 10% to the total output of those industries. That won't be impossible to survive for most.

 

"Those include agriculture, leisure and hospitality and construction, where undocumented workers contribute roughly 10% of those industries’ total output, according to Queens College labor economist Francesc Ortega, who has published numerous papers on the economics of immigration.!

 

" these workers could be replaced by the more than seven million working-age men who are legally in the country but not in the labor force."

 

Inreased mechanization will be another way companies will deal with it.

 

https://immigrantfood.com/mass-deportation-would-hit-these-industries-the-hardest/

More distortions from you. I named 3 specific industries, meat processing, dairy, and hosing construction. And then you offer a misleading selection of quotes. Did you think I wasn't going to look the article that link led to. Let's take a look at it.

Or maybe you just forget to include this from Francesc Ortega:

"Ortega said that history doesn’t support the view that undocumented workers can easily be replaced by those in the country legally. There is little historical evidence of how a deportation program like the one contemplated by the Trump campaign would impact an economy, he said, because nothing on that scale has been attempted in a modern developed country."

Ortega goes on to describe that the only somewhat similar deportation program took place in the 1960's. And the result wasn't more hiring of Americans.  Instead the did more automation and/or switched crops. So it didn't look like lots of Americans were waiting to take those jobs.

 

But what makes your use of quotes really low, is the second quote.

" these workers could be replaced by the more than seven million working-age men who are legally in the country but not in the labor force."

Since you don't identify who said it, it looks like it's coming from Ortega. Actually it's from Steven Camarota, the director of research at the vociferously anti-immigrant organization Center for Immigration Studies.

 

"Reports published by CIS have been disputed by scholars on immigration, fact-checkers and news outlets, and immigration-research organizations. The organization had significant influence within the Trump administration,^[3] which cited the group's work to defend its immigration policies.^[4] The Southern Poverty Law Center designated CIS as a hate group with ties to the American nativist movement.^[5] 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies

 

One of its two cofounders was John Tanton, a white nationalist.  The same noxious party who founded FAIR.

 

Donald Trump's Mass Deportation Plan Is More Popular Than You Think.

 

Immigration once again came out as one of the top issues concerning voters this presidential election, rating second behind inflation or increasing costs.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-mass-deportation-plan-support-1955874

On 10/8/2024 at 11:14 PM, riclag said:

56%  of all registered voters strongly or somewhat favor mass deportations of 

immigrants living in the country illegally.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/

 

If harris is Potus ,I hope she adheres to

 what the majority of registered  voters agree on!

 

 

 

care to explain how millions of people can be deported without government to government agreement. Also the logistics if such agreements can be reached, which I very much doubt. Has it ever occurred to you why trump and co never explain how to achieve their goal of mass deportation ?