Are Americans paying taxes to China?

[Celsius]

Can someone explain to me how this debt works? If China owns most of US debt aren't American taxpayers effectively paying interest payments to China?

 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Celsius said:

Can someone explain to me how this debt works? If China owns most of US debt aren't American taxpayers effectively paying interest payments to China?

 

First, while is one of our largest creditors China does not own most of our (US) debt. I think Japan is our largest creditor and China second. 

 

But yes, the US spends more now to service the debt than we spend on defense. 

 

 

[simple1]

Yes, PRC Yuan is pegged to the US dollar. As of April 2024, the five countries owning the most US debt are Japan ($1.1 trillion), China ($749.0 billion), the United Kingdom ($690.2 billion), Luxembourg ($373.5 billion), and Canada ($328.7 billion. Plus US consumers pay the additional tax on PRC imports to the USA - tariffs. as well as subsidies to US farmers due to PRC tariffs on US agricultural products e.g. soya.  trump's tariffs on PRC have failed in their purpose to reduce PRC imports. Biden keeps them in place:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/26/politics/china-tariffs-biden-policy/index.html to defend 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

snipped for brevity

Once has to keep trump in mind regards US debt to PRC due to his imposition of tariffs and his trade war with PRC.

[NoDisplayName]

22 minutes ago, Celsius said:

Can someone explain to me how this debt works? If China owns most of US debt aren't American taxpayers effectively paying interest payments to China?

 

 

That's how bonds work.  The Chinese are giving the US government low interest loans. 

 

Chinese taxpayers are subsidizing our national debt, allowing us to bankrupt ourselves.

 

https://usadebtclock.com/

[Jim Blue]

How come a s^×%%y country like the UK, to quote Trump , lent so much to the USA   ?

[KhunLA]

41 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

First, while is one of our largest creditors China does not own most of our (US) debt. I think Japan is our largest creditor and China second. 

 

But yes, the US spends more now to service the debt than we spend on defense.

Yes, and probably correct, along with the govt is also a big holder of it's own debt.  Borrowing from themselves ... think Social Security, and how they drained that fund to near insolvency.

 

Still in the print more money mode.   Debt is on paper, and as long as nobody calls you on it, then you're not bankrupt.  

 

JFK wanted to do away with Central Banking & Fed ... shh

... we all know how that turned.

 

ME ... ain't paying and haven't paid taxes most of the past 24 years.  Think I got all mine back, or will before I crap out.   Like bein a blight on society 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Jim Blue said:

How come a s^×%%y country like the UK, to quote Trump , lent so much to the USA   ?

For the reason you just evoked. Some UK investors see it as a safer investment. In particular, the share of UK debt holders increased after the Brexit referendum.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, Jim Blue said:

How come a s^×%%y country like the UK, to quote Trump , lent so much to the USA   ?

Because we are fools, or to be more accurate those who control our national wealth, are fools!

 

It's rather inexplicable, like the UK Government paying pensions into overseas accounts via an American Bank. It is touted as smoother and more reliable, but how and why the 6th largest economy in the world, and a major global banking player, needs to do this is a tad strange. I am personally keeping a very close eye on the dollar, if the US economy tanks then I will return to having it paid into my UK bank, and put up with the hassle of transferring money.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Because we are fools, or to be more accurate those who control our national wealth, are fools!

 

It's rather inexplicable, like the UK Government paying pensions into overseas accounts via an American Bank. It is touted as smoother and more reliable, but how and why the 6th largest economy in the world, and a major global banking player, needs to do this is a tad strange. I am personally keeping a very close eye on the dollar, if the US economy tanks then I will return to having it paid into my UK bank, and put up with the hassle of transferring money.

The use of the word "country" in the OP can be misleading. In some countries It's mainly the State buying U.S. debt (ex. China), in countries such as UK it's mainly private investors (banks, edge funds, companies, etc...)

[Captain Flack]

A troll post offering nothing but a pointless meme has been removed

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, candide said:

The use of the word "country" in the OP can be misleading. In some countries It's mainly the State buying U.S. debt (ex. China), in countries such as UK it's mainly private investors (banks, edge funds, companies, etc...)

Who still, effectively, control our national wealth.

 

One would have hoped that the 2008 financial crisis, which was hugely exacerbated by the UKs corporate finance sectors exposure to bad debt in the US, would have warned against the practice.

 

It is of course a massive simplification, but if banks, hedge funds and companies are hit hard by a significant draw down in the US economy, then they will seek to repair their funds which will impact upon UK business, jobs and prosperity.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, herfiehandbag said:

Who still, effectively, control our national wealth.

 

One would have hoped that the 2008 financial crisis, which was hugely exacerbated by the UKs corporate finance sectors exposure to bad debt in the US, would have warned against the practice.

We can't print it fast enough,,,

[herfiehandbag]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

We can't print it fast enough,,,

Hmm, get the Chinese to print it for you!

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Hmm, get the Chinese to print it for you!

Shhhhhhhh

[candide]

 

31 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Who still, effectively, control our national wealth.

 

One would have hoped that the 2008 financial crisis, which was hugely exacerbated by the UKs corporate finance sectors exposure to bad debt in the US, would have warned against the practice.

 

It is of course a massive simplification, but if banks, hedge funds and companies are hit hard by a significant draw down in the US economy, then they will seek to repair their funds which will impact upon UK business, jobs and prosperity.

U.S. treasury securities are considered as quite safe. Nothing to compare with the bad subprimes debt. The main risk is the $ exchange rate.

There is no particular reason why the U.S. economy would be more at risk than the U.K economy. It's likely the opposite case. And if there's a crisis in the U.S., it will propagate to U.K. anyway.

[Yellowtail]

23 minutes ago, candide said:

 

U.S. treasury securities are considered as quite safe. Nothing to compare with the bad subprimes debt. The main risk is the $ exchange rate.

There is no particular reason why the U.S. economy would be more at risk than the U.K economy. It's likely the opposite case. And if there's a crisis in the U.S., it will propagate to U.K. anyway.

Yeah, keep printing

[chiang mai]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

Yes, PRC Yuan is pegged to the US dollar. As of April 2024, the five countries owning the most US debt are Japan ($1.1 trillion), China ($749.0 billion), the United Kingdom ($690.2 billion), Luxembourg ($373.5 billion), and Canada ($328.7 billion. Plus US consumers pay the additional tax on PRC imports to the USA - tariffs. as well as subsidies to US farmers due to PRC tariffs on US agricultural products e.g. soya.  trump's tariffs on PRC have failed in their purpose to reduce PRC imports. Biden keeps them in place:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/26/politics/china-tariffs-biden-policy/index.html to defend 

The yuan is not pegged to USD, it managed to a basket of currencies

[spidermike007]

17 hours ago, simple1 said:

Yes, PRC Yuan is pegged to the US dollar. As of April 2024, the five countries owning the most US debt are Japan ($1.1 trillion), China ($749.0 billion), the United Kingdom ($690.2 billion), Luxembourg ($373.5 billion), and Canada ($328.7 billion. Plus US consumers pay the additional tax on PRC imports to the USA - tariffs. as well as subsidies to US farmers due to PRC tariffs on US agricultural products e.g. soya.  trump's tariffs on PRC have failed in their purpose to reduce PRC imports. Biden keeps them in place:

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/26/politics/china-tariffs-biden-policy/index.html to defend 

And he will fail even more miserably if allowed to lead for a second term. His proposed tariffs are dumb, poorly thought out, knee jerk, desperate, and terrible for the US economy. They are inflationary at best. 

 

They will amount to a massive GOP tax hike. 

[simple1]

11 hours ago, chiang mai said:

The yuan is not pegged to USD, it managed to a basket of currencies

 

My error, not pegged to US$ since 2005

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

My error, not pegged to US$ since 2005

Does that not make you feel old? I know it does me! 

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And he will fail even more miserably if allowed to lead for a second term. His proposed tariffs are dumb, poorly thought out, knee jerk, desperate, and terrible for the US economy. They are inflationary at best. 

 

They will amount to a massive GOP tax hike. 

Guess you missed it, Biden is not running for a second term. 

[Foxx]

20 hours ago, simple1 said:

Plus US consumers pay the additional tax on PRC imports to the USA

 

That can't possibly be true.  Mr. Trump says that tariffs on Chinese imports makes the Chinese pay, and he should know because he's told us he's a stable genius.  It's just surprising how so many so-called economists get this wrong.

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

My error, not pegged to US$ since 2005

But it is pegged to a very similar basket of currencies to USD, which is very similar to being pegged to USD.

[wombat]

20 hours ago, Celsius said:

Can someone explain to me how this debt works? If China owns most of US debt aren't American taxpayers effectively paying interest payments to China?

 

If China called in all the seppo debt it owns at the same time then China would own seppo land without a shot being fired.

All hail the new trading currency 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Foxx said:

 

That can't possibly be true.  Mr. Trump says that tariffs on Chinese imports makes the Chinese pay, and he should know because he's told us he's a stable genius.  It's just surprising how so many so-called economists get this wrong.

US consumers pay for the tariffs on Chinese goods in exactly the same way US consumers pay for US corporate income taxes, both are rolled into the cost of the product. 

 

The only real difference is that tariffs on imports make American products more attractive, while corporate income taxes make imported products more attractive. 

 

To be clear, I generally do not support tariffs or corporate income taxes, but Harris supports both and promises to raise them. 

[cdnvic]

Removed a post with intentional misspelling.

[Srikcir]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:18 AM, NoDisplayName said:

allowing us to bankrupt ourselves.

Incorrect.

Allows funding the American economy that results in massive national economic stimulus opportunities, virtual full employment low inflation, etc. As the US economy is the largest and one of wealthiest in the world, China and other foreign investors in the US share in its burgeoning wealth. BRIC doesn't like such dollarization success but more than willing to share in economic growth.

[Srikcir]

As a side note, Trump buys his USA bibles from China at $3 each, sells in the US at $60. 

[NoDisplayName]

53 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Incorrect.

Allows funding the American economy that results in massive national economic stimulus opportunities, virtual full employment low inflation, etc. As the US economy is the largest and one of wealthiest in the world, China and other foreign investors in the US share in its burgeoning wealth. BRIC doesn't like such dollarization success but more than willing to share in economic growth.

 

United States National Debt  $35,836,485,696,765

Total US Unfunded Liabilities  $123,307,609,374,582

https://usadebtclock.com/

 

Printer go "Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!"