1 hour ago, freedomnow said:

Funny that Jesse Glover Bruce Lee's first student who came to the school many times who was even older could hit like a train piston..it's condition, not age...

 

He does not need to run a marathon like Tyson doing a showboat for social media, it's about finishing the fight in the fastest time and that he can do.

 

Well, because Jesse Glover was black. George Foreman too could punch hard until he hit 45 years old, after that it was over even for the great George Foreman who looked  a poor shadow of a boxer against Axel Schulz.

 

After 45 I don't think even a black guy with world titles, recognised as the hardest puncher in boxing had it in him to win a boxing match.

 

Carruthers, who never was any kind of competitive boxer is, what, 66? Maybe you can get some influencer to fight him for kicks and giggles. But he would lose.

 

 

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

And you hear old true warriors who have been in real combats saying «It’s all about finishing your enemy standing, and for any price do not take the fight down to the ground» which manny mma prefer to do. 

 

We have some evidence for that, after Masvidal lost against Colby, he was so pissed he ambushed Colby outside the ring when he was leaving a restaurant. He punched pieces of Colby's teeth out and Colby claimed he had some brain damange, but Masvidal never grappled him.

 

I suppose grappling can only end in a gentle submission in the ring, in real life grappling would end in a broken arm, and nobody wants that really.

 

 

56 minutes ago, simon43 said:

Because some of us NEVER get in a fight - we use our brains rather than brawn

 

I am sure you do, and you  are clearly a very smart individual. However "never" is a strong word, fights are rare, but you could be in a situation when a fight is inevitable. It is very rare, but it could happen.

59 minutes ago, freedomnow said:

Actually most of the stuff in his movies was not actual end-point JKD as would be practiced in real life.

 

Of course not, I never said it was. In fact I gave Bruce Lee credit for recognising that his old traditional Kung Fu was ineffective and for trying to incoporate boxing and other styles into JKD.

 

However, JKD relies heavily on Wing Chun, Tai Chi and Taekwondo, all of which have been greatly discredited as ineffectual martial arts. As has JKD.

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Of course not, I never said it was. In fact I gave Bruce Lee credit for recognising that his old traditional Kung Fu was ineffective and for trying to incoporate boxing and other styles into JKD.

 

However, JKD relies heavily on Wing Chun, Tai Chi and Taekwondo, all of which have been greatly discredited as ineffectual martial arts. As has JKD.

 

There is neither Tai Chi nor Tae Kwon Do in JKD Nucleus - which goes to show you no know absolutely nothing on a martial art you choose to discrete.

 

Actually its modified elements of wing chun, fencing mechanics,boxing, grappling, JunFan Kung Fu and other aspects.

 

I'll leave someone else to go rounds with the keyboard jockey fighter you are.

 

I have more fun things to do.

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

I am sure you do, and you  are clearly a very smart individual. However "never" is a strong word, fights are rare, but you could be in a situation when a fight is inevitable. It is very rare, but it could happen.

Yes very true.  But in 66 years on this earth I've never had to fight, not as a schoolkid and not as an adult.  I could go and learn Kung Fu etc etc to protect myself in case of a fight, but the risk of encountering agression is minimal.

 

I do have a massive chopper in my bedroom (the steel metal kind!), which I would not hesitate to use if someone breaks in....

Behave. What a joke of a thread. If Lee were a fraud, the countless people he trained with would have outed him. His style was all about no real style or discipline. If he’d been in this time and trained in MMA and other modern arts, he’d likely be all over everyone including your chunky little friend. So, he was a movie star and didn’t do competitions, but his speed, power and fitness were ridiculous. Your little hero there would unlikely get a jab in. 

That Silat (Suffian Bela Diri) looks pretty handy in a knife fight. Maybe even in a street fight.

Head to one of your local fight gyms of any of the ones you said were useless and then tell the guy who runs it or the head trainer that you will kick his a** in a fight . See you far you get 😂👍

Fighting is moronic. 

 

On 5/12/2025 at 8:55 AM, Cameroni said:

 

Lol, Xu Xiaodong has let his hands do the talking. He has challenged Chinese Kung Fu "masters" and defeated every single one. Usually in less than 2 minutes 40 seconds.

 

Kung Fu is useless.

 

Krav Maga too is useless.

 

https://time.com/5448811/mma-kung-fu-xu-xiaodong/

 

Both are completely useless in a street fight.

 

Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do, also is useless.  Bruce Lee was a fraud. We have been lied to all our lives, with Kung Fu being presented as a real fighting art. It is nothing but a fraud. Like Krav Maga.

All that may be fact, or maybe it's talking smack...it won't matter when the other person shows up to the fight with a firearm.  Best way to win a gun fight...don't get in one.  

On 5/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, Cameroni said:

I am just concerned that those who practice Krav Maga, Kung Fu or Taekwondo may believe that their "art" protects them in a real street fight.

 

If they confide in the things they learn in Krav Maga, Kung fu or Taekwondo class, they could actually unalive themselves and end up very very dead.

 

Please do not think that Krav Maga, Kung Fu and such protect you in a real fight. They won't! They are only tested against compliant and passive practitioners of the same "art"!, not against an uncooperative and aggressive opponent. There is no real sparring in these "arts". 

 

So do not rely on them.

Your concern is touching.

 

Bored much?

There are a lot of factors that must be considered before negating any Martial Art. Boxing, for example, is considered by some as 'one dimensional' only punching is allowed and not below waste level. However, footwork and speed are useful not to mention that it can toughen ones condition. The very early form of TaeKwonDo was more useful than that which is being taught now. Modern WTF TKD has so many rules that many consider it only useful as a demonstration Art of techniques. But again, to perform those techniques one needs a a good range in flexibility which is always useful (ITF TaeKWonDo similar). Tang Soo Do and Moo Do Kwan are somewhere between TKD and Karate where Karate is more about strength and toughness in technique, 'immovable object vs unstoppable force' type of philosphy, where a strong block can break a knee or elbow of the attcker. Kung Fu is reputed to be an 'all-rounder'. Obviously there are may other MA's and there is some 'overlapping' in all of them. 

We have a different attitude, stance and approach to life so one needs to consider which MA best suits. Another important point is that when training in the gym, Dojo, Dojang etc. there have to be rules otherwise there would be broken limbs in every session. Parents want their children to go to University, Tech College etc. so attending a MA that is going interfere with that is obviously not wanted.

In a real street fight there are No Rules and if you can use what you know, better than your opponent the you have a better chance of survival. If one is worried about street fights then choose a MA School that concentrates on real combat techniques.

On 5/12/2025 at 7:52 PM, spidermike007 said:

Every day in this day and age we are subject to so much nonsense and fake stories. This is just another one. Really don't care what this idiot Xiaodong has to say. Krav maga, and Kung fu can be very deadly. Street fight or not. 

 

On 5/12/2025 at 7:52 PM, spidermike007 said:

Every day in this day and age we are subject to so much nonsense and fake stories. This is just another one. Really don't care what this idiot Xiaodong has to say. Krav maga, and Kung fu can be very deadly. Street fight or not. 

Agreed. Years ago I was working in Spain as a MD for South Europe. We had a civil engineer on a special assignment in Barcelona. I received a call from the police to have someone come and pick him up from the local police station. Apparently he was targeted by 4 muggers who has prior arrests for assault.. All 4 were in the hospital with concussions and 2 had broken jaws. To our surprise the engineer was an advanced black belt in Taekwando. The police let him go with just a warning.

7 hours ago, freedomnow said:

 

There is neither Tai Chi nor Tae Kwon Do in JKD Nucleus - which goes to show you no know absolutely nothing on a martial art you choose to discrete.

 

Actually its modified elements of wing chun, fencing mechanics,boxing, grappling, JunFan Kung Fu and other aspects.

 

I'll leave someone else to go rounds with the keyboard jockey fighter you are.

 

I have more fun things to do.

 

There is Tai Chi and Taekwondo in Jeet Kune Do

 

"As an eclectic martial art, it relies on a fighting style heavily influenced by Wing Chun, Tai Chi, taekwondo, boxing, fencing and jujutsu."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do

 

Bruce Lee learnt Taekwondo techniques from hoongoo Rhee, who taught him the side kick in detail. He also learned aspects of Taekwondo from Chuck Norris, who was a Taekwondo instructor. Bruce Lee used Taekwondo techniques, like high kicks and spinning kicks, as building blocks for, Jeet Kune Do. 

 

Bruce's own father Lee Hoi Chuen.taught Tai Chi and passed on the fundamentals to Bruce Lee. Towards the end of his life Bruce Lee also studied Tai chi with  with Liang Zi Peng. Here's video of Bruce Lee demonstrating his Tai Chi moves. In fact Jesse Glover, whom you mentioned earlier has said that Bruce Lee was more obsessed with learning Tai Chi than learning Wing Chun, though it is the case that there are less Tai Chi elements in JKD than Wing Chun:

 

 

If you're still stuck in the "nucleus" then Carruthers obviously didn't teach you very well. Here is a quote from Bruce Lee himself on how the nucleus is only the first stage, and has to be overcome in JKD:

 

 "Now there are three stages in the cultivation of Jeet Kune Do, each of them interrelated. The first stage is “sticking to the nucleus”; the second stage, “liberation from the nucleus”; the third stage, “returning to the original freedom.”

 

https://jkdwednite.com/stages-in-the-cultivation-of-jeet-kune-do/

 

Either way it doesn't matter. Wing Chun is just as discredited as all forms of Kung Fu are, including Tai Chi. Taekwondo is equally  discredited in that it is useless in a real fight.

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

Yes very true.  But in 66 years on this earth I've never had to fight, not as a schoolkid and not as an adult.  I could go and learn Kung Fu etc etc to protect myself in case of a fight, but the risk of encountering agression is minimal.

 

I do have a massive chopper in my bedroom (the steel metal kind!), which I would not hesitate to use if someone breaks in....

 

Yes, I do agree, whilst my experience has been slightly different and I've had to fight before, you are of course right, in our modern age the risk of a real fight is minimal and extremely low. Then again the risk of open heart surgery is very low, but I still have medical insurance, the risk of hurricane damange is low, but I still had the house insured (and thank God because a hurricane did happen). Ultimately, I would not want to come up against an Andrew Tate figure in a night club and find that they can threaten  you, I think it is better to have the skill to deal with agression if it ever were to come up.

 

I have a big knife next to my bed as well, btw, just in case someone breaks in. A wise precaution.

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Behave. What a joke of a thread. If Lee were a fraud, the countless people he trained with would have outed him. His style was all about no real style or discipline. If he’d been in this time and trained in MMA and other modern arts, he’d likely be all over everyone including your chunky little friend. So, he was a movie star and didn’t do competitions, but his speed, power and fitness were ridiculous. Your little hero there would unlikely get a jab in. 

 

You must admit it is quite remarkable that we have celebrated a man as a the epitomy of martial arts who was a "pretend" fighter, an actor, who never competed in competitive fights in a serious way. Whereas thousands of men have come before him and after him, who have competed in real competitive fights and never reached the mythical status of Bruce Lee. What caused that difference? Only one thing, the fact that Bruce Lee was the first film star to use martial arts and kids looked at the  silver screen and believed Bruce Lee was really fighting on screen. When in fact that was make belief.

 

In that sense Bruce Lee was a fraud. In another sense, we now know that Wing Chun and all Chinese Kung Fu is a useless in a real fight. And of course JKD is largely based on Wing  Chun. So JKD too is a fraud. Well, not  so much a fraud, Bruce Lee really tried his best, he could sense old Kung Fu was ineffectual and tried to incorporate boxing, but due to his massive inexperience with real fighting he actually believed things like low kicks are ineffectual (see Tao of Jeet Kune Do) when in fact they are highly effectual.

 

So yes, Bruce Lee was a bit of a fraud. Even if he was very fit, fast and studied a great number of mostly Chinese martial arts. He studied the wrong martial arts, never engaged in competitive fighting and hence came to completely wrong conclusions like low kicks are ineffectual.

 

If anyone wanted to come up with the ultimate fighting system today, knowing what we know empirically with MMA today, they would stay completely clear of Wing Chun, which forms the basis of JKD. They would stay clear of Tai Chi, Taekwondo and Kung Fu altogether. Rather they would focus on wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai and boxing. If Bruce Lee had focused on those martial arts to build his JKD it would be worth something. But then he was not a real fighter and could not have known what we know today.

 

The people Bruce Lee trained of course would never have outed him, because they knew even less than he did, they were mostly clueless actors. What they learned however was largely useless in a real fight. Because JKD is useless in a real fight, as is Wing Chun. As a trained MMA fighter there is no doubt that Xu Xiaodong would pulverize Bruce Lee in less than 2  minutes. Why do we know this? Because if you look at the video of Xu Xiaodong you see how he usess maximum aggression to rush these legendary Kung Fu masters, who are only used to compliant pupils carefully jabbing at them in a non-aggressive way. Much like Bruce Lee was. There is no real sparring in Wing Chun where a trujly aggressive non-compliant opponent rushes at you, like Xu Xiaodong does. This is why these Kung Fu masters lose so badly, they are not used to this, to real fighting.

1 hour ago, phetphet said:

That Silat (Suffian Bela Diri) looks pretty handy in a knife fight. Maybe even in a street fight.

 

I have actually fought a Pencak Silat master, I mean sparring, not for real obviously, and was very impressed. Indeed it seems like one of the more effective marital arts.

1 hour ago, ronster said:

Head to one of your local fight gyms of any of the ones you said were useless and then tell the guy who runs it or the head trainer that you will kick his a** in a fight . See you far you get

 

That's exactly what Xu Xiadong is doing, and he is the one kicking the a$$es of all these Kung Fu masters. So....that's already been done. See here:

 

 

52 minutes ago, parallelman said:

But again, to perform those techniques one needs a a good range in flexibility which is always useful

 

Indeed, Tai Chi, Wing Chun, JKD, Taekwondo, all these things can be useful for flexibility, fitness and such. However, it would be very foolish to rely on Wing Chun, JKD or Taekwondo techniques you have learnt to defend yourself against a knife attack, because you will most likely end up very dead.

 

Equally, in a fight with a real fighter you will also end up badly injured, as Xu Xiaodong has shown with the various Kung Fu masters he demolished in under 2 minutes.

 

So when people say that Wing Chun, Kung Fu, JKD, Taekwondo and such are useless in a real fight, that is not just idle talk. It's reality.

I've watched all the IP Man movies, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Kung Fu Hustle, Delta Force and the Rush Hour trilogy box set making me, obviously, an expert.

No way. 

rea...... or real fight......   i guess that's the question.  I'm 108 and 45 kg and would fighting me be a "real" fight?  perhaps not.

 

no matter who they beat, it wasn't real.    

 

guns, bombs, knives, more people, tactics, etc..... not a real fight I guess.   not fair.

 

it's like me saying MJ never played "real" basketball........and there's no way you can bring his prime back to today....so I'll convince myself I win.

 

There has only been one real fighter in the history of the world.  only one.  oh, how interesting, I must comment!!!   so good job OP.

 

there's never been a real war, real fight, real game, real anything...........rigged, edge, unfair something.....  all pointless blah blah blah blah

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

That's exactly what Xu Xiadong is doing, and he is the one kicking the a$$es of all these Kung Fu masters. So....

So... how many did he fight , what level were they at , did he basically sprint and grab them to get them in a choke hold 🤔

Your average person on the street unless very fit or just hard as nails would lose to anyone with some form of fight training from a mid to upper level. They are also not usually doing anything like MMA , boxing ,karate etc and certainly ain't used to getting punched in the face or bent in half by someone trying to break their limbs.

As Mike Tyson said " everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth"

 

14 minutes ago, fondue zoo said:

I've watched all the IP Man movies, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Kung Fu Hustle, Delta Force and the Rush Hour trilogy box set making me, obviously, an expert.

No way. 

 

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is a great movie, as is Kung Fu  Hustle, IP Man 1...and yes Wushu looks great on film.

 

But...just take a look at what happens when a Kung Fu master faces a medicore MMA fighter. This is real life, not the movies:

 

 

Master Bruce Lee was a 33rd degree Mason.

 

Karate is still the way to go after muay thai.

 

I've taken countless punks to the asphalt using 1 finger karate ALONE.

6 minutes ago, ronster said:

So... how many did he fight , what level were they at , did he basically sprint and grab them to get them in a choke hold 🤔

Your average person on the street unless very fit or just hard as nails would lose to anyone with some form of fight training from a mid to upper level. They are also not usually doing anything like MMA , boxing ,karate etc and certainly ain't used to getting punched in the face or bent in half by someone trying to break their limbs.

As Mike Tyson said " everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth"

 

 

Well, exactly, that's why Mike Tyson was the real deal, because he did put it on the line every time in real life, and fought aggressive sparring partners who were non-compliant.

 

All these "arts" like Kung Fu, Jeet Kune Do, Taekwondo etc, they have elaborate philosophy, systems and such, but what they don't have is regular sparring against a non-compliant aggressive adversary.

 

So what Tyson said is exactly right.

 

Xu Xiaodong  fought Wei Leii, a Kung Fu master, and beat him in less than 20 seconds. The fight went viral on Chinese social media.

 

Tai Chi master Ma Baugou was due to fight Xu Xiaodong, but himself called police to stop the fight from starting.

 

Xu Xiaodong also fought Tai Chi master Chen Yong and defeated him in less than 20 seconds. Video here:

 

 

 

Xu Xiaodong faught a significant number of Chinese Kung Fu masters and Tai Chi masters. However, he has faced significant hurdles, for instance he was sued in court and had to pay 40000 USD because he tarnished the reputaiton of a Kung Fu master, and this lowered his credit score. Chinese social media deleted him and he was unable to make money to attend fights due to the blowback in China against his exposing traditional chinese King Fu masters as frauds.

Anybody who takes martial arts seriously as and when portrayed in movies needs to grow up.

7 minutes ago, Woke to Sounds said:

Master Bruce Lee was a 33rd degree Mason.

 

Karate is still the way to go after muay thai.

 

I've taken countless punks to the asphalt using 1 finger karate ALONE.

 

In a typical MMA fight you would see initial jabbing, punching, with a few kicks thrown in, followed by a take down, grappling and wrestling.

 

So yes, Karate is useful in that striking, punching and kicking form an integral part of real fight and many MMA fighters have trained in Karate and shown its effectiveness. 

 

But that applies only for some styles of Karate, some are very useful and known to be realistic, like Kyokushinkai, whereas others are almost Kung Fu like in their elaborate flourishes which they indeed acknowledge came from Kung Fu.

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Anybody who takes martial arts seriously as and when portrayed in movies needs to grow up.

 

Well that's why Bruce Lee was a fraud. Unlike  Jackie Chan who sells himself as an actor, Bruce Lee sold himself as a true martial arts expert and fighter, he wanted to be seen not just as a make belief fighter, but as a real fighter and martial arts savant. He got away with it for decades because nobody knew any better. Now with MMA we know better. See below for an MMA fighter beating a Kung Fu master.

 

 

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Well that's why Bruce Lee was a fraud. Unlike  Jackie Chan who sells himself as an actor, Bruce Lee sold himself as a true martial arts expert and fighter, he wanted to be seen not just as a make belief fighter, but as a real fighter and martial arts savant. He got away with it for decades because nobody knew any better. Now with MMA we know better. See below for an MMA fighter beating a Kung Fu master.

 

 

I repeat, movies are mostly fantasy entertainment and should not be taken seriously.