Report Tax-Free Wine Boom in Thailand Spurs Costs and Controversy

[Thailaw]

From an internet source: "While cheaper wines (under 1,000 baht) saw negligible price drops, high-end wines became over 10% cheaper, boosting demand among affluent consumers". I expect that most people (me included) consume wine under (likely well under) B1,000 per bottle, which is why no one has seen a price decrease in wine prices during the last year -- there haven't been any. If taxes had decreased in this segment of the wine market, sellers would have lowered prices -- this notion of "price gouging" is nonsense; The retail market for wine (and other consumables) is very competitive, and selelrs want to sell more. A "a staggering 300% rise in consumption of mid-range wines priced between 3,001 and 5,000 baht within a year", which is a huge increase, is likely because the volume of wine sold in this price range was VERY small, and relative to the sales of wine in the B1,000 and less range, it still is. No one should be worried about the "social impact" of increased sales of wine in the B3,001 to B5,000 range -- total nonsense ("negative impacts on youth" -- what youth are drinking wine in the B3000 to 5000 price range?). And I am very doubtful that government tax revenues have decreased by B600 million, as a 300% increase in volume would more than offset a 10% decrease in tax -- somebody's math is grossly out of wack... There is an agenda behind this story, and I am guessing that it was funded by  the Boon Rawd Brewery (the makers of Singha Beer) and its friends.... 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

😂😂 The exact same wine is poured into labeled bottles and sold to tourists for 25-30 euro/bottle 😂😂

I saw this first hand in France.

wine tasting for a restaurant and after the owner selected a few he was asked what label he wanted to have put on the bottles.

[bubblegum]

2 hours ago, jas007 said:

Well, I would never drink that much in one sitting.  But you're probably right, sort of. 

 

For anyone who has never had first rate wine: it can be nirvana. A little trip to heaven.  Unless you've been there, you haven't done that. 

I have been there to many times to recall but the moment people start blind tasting all the extraordinary wine money goes poof in the air. Your Nirvana seems more like a "fata morgana" to me.

[CallumWK]

3 hours ago, KannikaP said:

And tastes like that's what it is worth.

 

Aren't you one of those who makes wine from fermented fruit juice you buy in the local super market?

I'm sure that will taste like a 2000 baht bottle of real wine.

As for the 1 euro bottles in Spain, they taste better than a 500 baht bottle in Thailand.

[jas007]

29 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

I have been there to many times to recall but the moment people start blind tasting all the extraordinary wine money goes poof in the air. Your Nirvana seems more like a "fata morgana" to me.

I'm not sure what you mean here. 

 

My Nirvana means just that.  Have you v=never been there? 

[CallumWK]

3 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Overall, import values climbed by over 10%, mostly benefitting overseas wine producers

 

There is Xenophobia raising its ugly head again.

 

3 hours ago, ukrules said:

Based on the article 10% discounts to the most expensive wine in the world but they're getting away with 50% excise.

 

I may be wrong, but I thought excise tax was also reduced or even eliminated. So if I'm correct, there actually should have been a significant reduction in price for cheap wines also.

 

[ukrules]

8 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

I may be wrong, but I thought excise tax was also reduced or even eliminated. So if I'm correct, there actually should have been a significant reduction in price for cheap wines also.

 

That's right but you're not accounting for greed. Unless someone undercuts them all then why should they reduce any prices?

[bubblegum]

33 minutes ago, jas007 said:

I'm not sure what you mean here. 

 

My Nirvana means just that.  Have you v=never been there? 

Not on booze.

[still kicking]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Seems like alot of nonsense. Since the policy was implemented wine does not seem to have dropped in price by more than 50 baht a bottle. 

I am in OZ now, I buy 5 litres in a cask for 15 AUD ( 313 baht)

[jas007]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

Not on booze.

I'm not sure I'd call great wine "booze."  It can be Nirvana from the first sip.   

[GanDoonToonPet]

If there are no tariffs on imported wine, how come I can buy a bottle of Yellow Tail in China for less than ฿350?

 

I remember the price because, a few years ago, China whacked a 200% tariff on Australian wine in revenge for them joining the AUKUS defence pact. I had to resort to Chinese wines like the awful 'Great Wall', which was similarly priced, or even worse...French wine 🤪

[KannikaP]

11 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

Aren't you one of those who makes wine from fermented fruit juice you buy in the local super market?

I'm sure that will taste like a 2000 baht bottle of real wine.

As for the 1 euro bottles in Spain, they taste better than a 500 baht bottle in Thailand.

Wow, you've really gone back on my posts, or have a great memory.

I make my own vino from concentrated grape juice, red & white & apple, available online at about Bht 600 to make 10 litres. It needs about three months to clear and mature a bit, never had some longer than that. It is quite palatable for ME.

[LennyW]

No reductions coming through to the retailers, only the importers are winning!!

[Dionigi]

so, if consumption has increased by 300% (don't get me started that increases cannot be over 100%) this must be bringing in more tax revenue than before unless taxes were reduced to zero.

[Nickcage49]

Oh give me a break. This is just a money grab by the government to justify taxing wine again. Those taxes were criminal!

[JBChiangRai]

It’s not true to say there are no price reductions coming through to consumers.

 

I was in 7/11 the other day and they are now selling Jacob’s Creek Chardonnay at ฿445 per bottle, it used to be ฿599. I’m not a fan of any of the Jacobs Creek wines except that one.

 

The price of wine has come down slowly, I think it’s largely because of old stock and to some extent profiteering.

 

I do like my wine as you can see from the photo.

 

 

[klauskunkel]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

it has also resulted in nearly 600 million baht in lost annual government revenue

Aww shucks. Didn't stop the PM from going on her European vacation.

[newbee2022]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

leading not only to lost revenue but also to adverse public health and social outcomes.

Well, I think it's a lost debate already.

The gap between social groups in Thailand related to their income is widening.👍

[hotchilli]

16 hours ago, bubblegum said:

I have not seen a price reduction at all?

My local Big C and 7-11 still have the same old prices... what reduction?

[crazykopite]

Have never seen any deductions in the price of wine maybe it’s because I’m not a wine drinker 

[dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

My local Big C and 7-11 still have the same old prices... what reduction?

As the OP points out it's only the high end that's seen reductions. The majority of wine drinkers have seen little to no reductions. This is why this article is complete BS.

[khunjeff]

12 hours ago, CallumWK said:

I may be wrong, but I thought excise tax was also reduced or even eliminated. So if I'm correct, there actually should have been a significant reduction in price for cheap wines also.

 

It's a lot more complicated than that, which makes the pricing structure very complicated to figure out - there are import duties, VAT, and two different types of excise tax, one based on value and the other on alcohol content. 

 

https://www.meiningers-international.com/wine/news/thailand-slashes-taxes-wine

 

 

 

[khunjeff]

16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The study estimates the broader social costs, including increased risks of accidents, domestic violence, and negative impacts on youth, amount to over 10.3 billion baht.

 

For wines selling at US$100+, which are consumed by less than 1% of the Thai population, and rarely in large volumes at one sitting? That seems completely unbelievable.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think the soul free number crunchers have the capability at looking at the wider perspective.

Take fine dining in Thailand for example.

European where wine is so natural and even sometimes Thai.

Such places generate revenue, taxes, and jobs for Thais.

But consider the lost business of people just not going as often to such places BECAUSE the wine cost is so ridiculous it becomes a substandard experience if they cut out the wine or drink less of it, crappier quality, etc.

Thaiiland sells itself internationally as one of the top foodie destinations in the world, especially Bangkok, and not only Thai food.

Well, with wine priced as it is here, they are limiting themselves.

 

Wine is controversial around the world.

Here in Thailand there is a fundamental problem in that the vineyards are still in a state of infancy and not capable of producing wine efficiently making it quite overpriced for the quality. A few years back the government raised the tax on imported wine in an attempt protect the emerging domestic wine industry.

With the bulk of the wine consumed being imported the prices are in the hands of the importers and having established a new benchmark figure based on the tax rise it would be a bit of wishful thinking to expect any noticeable reduction.

If you shop around there are some fairly cheap wine to be had. The Best Supermarket in Pattaya sells a 3 litre box for about 850 baht, but I can't see any restaurant adding it to the price list. They also have a bit of a predicament, reducing the price for an existing wine may be seen as offering a cheaper product.

I have seen some restaurants that allow you to bring your own with a 200 baht corkage.

Unfortunately no easy solutions and a case of living with it, or not, as the case may.

[topt]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

It’s not true to say there are no price reductions coming through to consumers.

 

I was in 7/11 the other day and they are now selling Jacob’s Creek Chardonnay at ฿445 per bottle, it used to be ฿599. I’m not a fan of any of the Jacobs Creek wines except that one.

 

The price of wine has come down slowly, I think it’s largely because of old stock and to some extent profiteering.

 

I do like my wine as you can see from the photo.

 

 

Completely agree. Some prices as you mention have come down but also many haven't.

Makro is a good example where quite a few of their wines reduced in price in the 4-800 price bracket. Hopes End being one in particular.

 

All the posters who say they have seen zero reductions are either mistaken or not looking very hard. Some of the Jacobs Creek range reductions, as you mention, were the most obvious. 

[Joe32]

17 hours ago, bubblegum said:

I have not seen a price reduction at all?

 

17 hours ago, bubblegum said:

I have not seen a price reduction at all?

As someone who loves wine, I actually noticed it became a lot cheaper. 

 

I love how they cut the tax, and then complain about tax loss though. 

[giddyup]

16 hours ago, KannikaP said:

And after your second bottle, you would not know if it was Bht15,000 or Bht 500!

Wasted on me, my taste buds peak at 399 baht.

[Surasak]

17 hours ago, Baht Simpson said:

So, they lowered the duty and people started buying more.  Did they not see that happening?

 

 

"Did they not see that happening"? ....... Would they ever? More to the point, they went looking for the problems and trouble it would cause. Then obviously found it.

[seajae]

most wine sellers are not passing it on and just using it to make more profits, this is Thailand and making more profit is more important than being honest, personally I have seen no price drop on any shops here at all, in fact I have seen some price rises on wine so maybe the sellers are adding it instead of removing it. 

[J Branche]

What are the on about with possible social impact.  If they are not drinking wine, then it's beer, whiskey, other alcohol.   

 

As for lost taxes, what about all the tax from foreign sourced income they are on about.  That doesn't help?  To much alleged corruption to cover the difference?  

 

Work on educating the youth, bringing investment and business to Thailand and you can collect your tax from those sources.