On 8/31/2025 at 2:50 PM, shdmn said:

You keep repeating those numbers over and over again from one source

Look again.  There was more than one source.  Three links and a youtube clip. 

 

On 8/31/2025 at 2:50 PM, shdmn said:

For starters, it's only for a 6 month period. 

I believe the Ministry has already adjusted their projection once in 2025.  Obviously, the numbers as so far behind now that they know not even a big high season will boost the stats.

 

On 8/31/2025 at 2:50 PM, shdmn said:

The numbers never did fully recover post covid to pre covid so there is a longer term trend involved as well that didn't just start in 2025.

Vietnam recovered well.

 

https://vietnamnews.vn/society/1690194/viet-nam-saw-17-6-million-foreign-visitors-in-2024-almost-reaching-pre-pandemic-number.html

 

"Việt Nam saw 17.6 million foreign visitors in 2024, almost reaching pre-pandemic number"

 

I have posted links showing Vietnam's tourism is up 23% on last year, and Thailand's is down 7%.  You mentioned "trends."  Care to comment on that trend? 

 

On 8/31/2025 at 2:50 PM, shdmn said:

That story is also agenda driven basically only talking about a small drop in Chinese tourism.  That is probably because of some negative stories that came out about Thailand, but also because there is a trend this year for Chinese to travel domestically.  Both of those are short term so it's just a small blip and not very meaningful.

I agree.  The kidnappings spooked the Chinese. 

 

Why do you think it's short term?  It can't all be about "safety." 

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I accept a large percentage of the 7% that tourism is down is Chinese, however, surely due to inflation, high cost of living, interest rate increases etc, many will not be able to afford their annual, or one of their bi-annual holidays to Thailand.  The global economy must be having an effect of many around the world. 

 

Like I said, this high season will be interesting, and there is plenty of availability on the Agoda website on some random high season dates I ran. 

 

You raise an interesting point, and it's been debated before, and that is, tourist numbers versus their "spend."  As mentioned, when western tourist numbers were in decline, the TAT targeted tourists from emerging economies like China and India.  This kept the tourism numbers high, but the "spend" was way down.  What is the point of having more tourists if they do not inject money into the tourism industry?  

 

In the case of the Chinese, most paid for their whole tour in China.  Food, transport, activities, sightseeing etc, all paid in China.  As shown by some links previously posted, the Chinese tour operator owned buses, boats, hotels, land etc, further maximizing profits being repatriated back to China.  

 

The OP asked "Why is farang fewer?"  His question was in relation to Big C, which tends to have expats shopping there.  The expat population here is aging.  I lost an elderly friend earlier this year.  Are new expat retirees keeping up with the attrition rate?

 

It's possible the next generation of retiring expat either don't see Pattaya / Thailand as a desirable retirement destination,  or, they simply can't afford to retire at retirement age and have to work longer years, or, they chose more value for money destinations.  There's also a possibility they the next generation of retiree still retires in Thailand, but just not in Pattaya. 

 

What is interesting is I can't see Chinese, Indian, Arab and Russian guys retiring here in the way westerner did in previous years.   

 

I thought it was interesting reading the reports regarding the declining tourist numbers this year that they highlighted an increase in visitors from the UK, Australia and the US, but not enough to offset the decline in Asian tourists. Perhaps they have got their savings invested in mutual funds earning 10.5% and can funds their holidays from those returns. Clearly not everyone in the West is broke.

2 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

I thought it was interesting reading the reports regarding the declining tourist numbers this year that they highlighted an increase in visitors from the UK, Australia and the US, but not enough to offset the decline in Asian tourists. Perhaps they have got their savings invested in mutual funds earning 10.5% and can funds their holidays from those returns. Clearly not everyone in the West is broke.

I accept not everyone in the west is broke, and I never suggested they were.  I merely suggested prevailing harsher global economic factors may see many not be able to afford their holiday to Thailand this year. 

 

For those that still can, will they have the same holiday budget as they did in previous visits?  Who knows? 

 

The OP posted of his observations.  It will be interesting to observe how many 2 week millionaires make it to Pattaya this coming high season. 

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, it's all fake news.  Is that correct?  Go on the record. 

 

If it's fake, how is it that it was all over the media, with arrests and asset confiscation????

Answered already.  A tour company misbehaving.  Meaningless.   My remarks regarding tourists in tour groups remain valid.  None are 'zero dollar' tourists.  Every tourist entering a country contributes to that country's economy.  Impossible not to unless they eat nothing, drink nothing, go nowhere, and sleep on the street or in the airport terminal until their flight back home leaves.  

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I've posted links from credible sources with stats and data.  Obviously, I place more weight on those than I do your opinion and what you "see" when you can not produce links to support what you "see." 

 

Basically, your opinion is noting more than bar stool banter unless you can post links to back it up. 

 

Still waiting for a couple of links for some 20 million baht sales on the dark side. 

     I have not seen any links from you with any useful 'stats and data'.  Instead of asking me for a link, why don't you get off your bar stool and go check some of the new projects I have mentioned and report back to us.  You're the one doubting anybody is buying 20MB houses--go check for yourself if you don't believe me.  I don't have to--I've already done my checking.  

4 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I accept a large percentage of the 7% that tourism is down is Chinese, however, surely due to inflation, high cost of living, interest rate increases etc, many will not be able to afford their annual, or one of their bi-annual holidays to Thailand.  The global economy must be having an effect of many around the world. 

 

Like I said, this high season will be interesting, and there is plenty of availability on the Agoda website on some random high season dates I ran. 

 

You raise an interesting point, and it's been debated before, and that is, tourist numbers versus their "spend."  As mentioned, when western tourist numbers were in decline, the TAT targeted tourists from emerging economies like China and India.  This kept the tourism numbers high, but the "spend" was way down.  What is the point of having more tourists if they do not inject money into the tourism industry?  

 

In the case of the Chinese, most paid for their whole tour in China.  Food, transport, activities, sightseeing etc, all paid in China.  As shown by some links previously posted, the Chinese tour operator owned buses, boats, hotels, land etc, further maximizing profits being repatriated back to China.  

 

The OP asked "Why is farang fewer?"  His question was in relation to Big C, which tends to have expats shopping there.  The expat population here is aging.  I lost an elderly friend earlier this year.  Are new expat retirees keeping up with the attrition rate?

 

It's possible the next generation of retiring expat either don't see Pattaya / Thailand as a desirable retirement destination,  or, they simply can't afford to retire at retirement age and have to work longer years, or, they chose more value for money destinations.  There's also a possibility they the next generation of retiree still retires in Thailand, but just not in Pattaya. 

 

What is interesting is I can't see Chinese, Indian, Arab and Russian guys retiring here in the way westerner did in previous years.   

     You're incorrect on a number of your points.  First, independent Chinese are the majority of tourists coming to Thailand, not Chinese in tour groups.  Pre-covid, it was around 65% and lately Google puts it around 80%.   So, most did NOT 'pay for their whole tour in China.'  If you got out more, you would have seen lots of Chinese at Hilton, Hard Rock, Centara, and other Pattaya hotels.

     Also, Chinese spending per person is less than western spending but I think it is incorrect to say it is 'way down'.  If I'm remembering correctly, I think pre-covid Chinese spending was around 46,000 baht per person vs. around 65,000 baht per western tourist.  Less, but I'm not sure 'way down' fits.  Google says it's around 52,000 baht per person now. 

    Saying, as you do, that Chinese tourists contribute little might make sense if they, indeed, were spending your ridiculous and incorrect zero dollars.  Instead, pre-covid, it was 45,000 baht times 11 million tourists.  Not exactly chump change and definitely 'injecting money into the tourism industry'.   If you're Thailand, would you rather have 11 million Chinese tourists in 2019 spending 45,000 baht each or 1 million British tourists in 2019 spending 65,000 baht each?   The right answer is you want both, but you want China more.  

    Westerners, by the way, are still settling in Thailand.  We had American, Irish, Dutch, British, Italian, Russian, and probably some other western nationalities, at the last housing project I lived at.  Also, Indian, Chinese, Israeli, and Arab.   All choosing Pattaya.

indians moving their in droves WRECKED IT

13 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I accept not everyone in the west is broke, and I never suggested they were.  I merely suggested prevailing harsher global economic factors may see many not be able to afford their holiday to Thailand this year. 

 

For those that still can, will they have the same holiday budget as they did in previous visits?  Who knows? 

 

The OP posted of his observations.  It will be interesting to observe how many 2 week millionaires make it to Pattaya this coming high season. 

 

Personally I'll be avoiding Pattaya from Dec-Mar this high season onwards, this last high season was far too busy for my liking. I see no reason to expect this year to be any different. Economic reasons such as the higher cost of long haul airfares and cost of living in the West were cited on here as reasons why Western tourism wouldn't recover post COVID, and yet it did. I'm sure if you come on here in a few months posters will be lamenting the traffic situation associated with the high volume of tourists. An absence of Chinese doesn't really negatively impact me as their venues of choice aren't places I'm likely to frequent 

20 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I've posted links from credible sources with stats and data.  Obviously, I place more weight on those than I do your opinion and what you "see" when you can not produce links to support what you "see." 

 

Basically, your opinion is noting more than bar stool banter unless you can post links to back it up. 

 

Still waiting for a couple of links for some 20 million baht sales on the dark side. 

    I know you're 'still waiting' so here we go.  You can try the Faz Waz real estate website.  You can search by condo project or housing development name once you are on their website.  They sometimes show past sales for a project or housing development.  Here's one I pasted from Faz Waz for Siam Royal View on the Darkside.  You'll note some sales of 20MB or more.  And, one for 139MB last year.   So, yes, people are buying 20MB properties in Pattaya, on the Darkside and in town, too.  

฿16,400,000	฿41,000	400 SqM	1,100 SqM	5	6	-	30/12/2021	Partly Furnished	Partial Sea View
฿33,000,000	฿60,000	550 SqM	1,200 SqM	3	3	1	5/5/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿55,000,000	฿45,833	1,200 SqM	645 SqM	6	8	3	19/3/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿10,500,000	฿29,167	360 SqM	552 SqM	3	3	-	19/8/2019	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿65,000,000	฿59,091	1,100 SqM	1,050 SqM	8	10	3	21/10/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿75,000,000	฿85,300	879.25 SqM	1,250 SqM	6	10	2	21/10/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿28,950,000	฿82,714	350 SqM	1,050 SqM	4	4	1	15/6/2021	Fully Furnished	City View
฿12,300,000	฿61,500	200 SqM	760 SqM	3	2	1	28/4/2020	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿19,995,000	฿38,452	520 SqM	1,100 SqM	5	6	2	28/6/2019	Partly Furnished	Partial Sea View
฿30,000,000	฿75,000	400 SqM	1,600 SqM	4	5	2	25/2/2021	Fully Furnished	Sea View
฿13,900,000	฿69,500	200 SqM	700 SqM	3	3	1	26/7/2019	Unfurnished	Pool View
฿139,000,000	฿81,765	1,700 SqM	2,100 SqM	10	12	3	7/2/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿20,500,000	฿38,826	528 SqM	1,600 SqM	4	6	1	28/4/2020	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿19,500,000	฿81,250	240 SqM	1,050 SqM	4	3	1	24/2/2021	Partly Furnished	Sea View
฿48,500,000	฿93,269	520 SqM	1,306 SqM	5	6	2	16/5/2022	Fully Furnished	Sea View

 

A Brit mate just returned and says gals are desperate for guys who are ‘bald and have very large beer bellies that really overhang their trousers’ ,sic

20 hours ago, newnative said:

    I know you're 'still waiting' so here we go.  You can try the Faz Waz real estate website.  You can search by condo project or housing development name once you are on their website.  They sometimes show past sales for a project or housing development.  Here's one I pasted from Faz Waz for Siam Royal View on the Darkside.  You'll note some sales of 20MB or more.  And, one for 139MB last year.   So, yes, people are buying 20MB properties in Pattaya, on the Darkside and in town, too.  

฿16,400,000	฿41,000	400 SqM	1,100 SqM	5	6	-	30/12/2021	Partly Furnished	Partial Sea View
฿33,000,000	฿60,000	550 SqM	1,200 SqM	3	3	1	5/5/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿55,000,000	฿45,833	1,200 SqM	645 SqM	6	8	3	19/3/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿10,500,000	฿29,167	360 SqM	552 SqM	3	3	-	19/8/2019	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿65,000,000	฿59,091	1,100 SqM	1,050 SqM	8	10	3	21/10/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿75,000,000	฿85,300	879.25 SqM	1,250 SqM	6	10	2	21/10/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿28,950,000	฿82,714	350 SqM	1,050 SqM	4	4	1	15/6/2021	Fully Furnished	City View
฿12,300,000	฿61,500	200 SqM	760 SqM	3	2	1	28/4/2020	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿19,995,000	฿38,452	520 SqM	1,100 SqM	5	6	2	28/6/2019	Partly Furnished	Partial Sea View
฿30,000,000	฿75,000	400 SqM	1,600 SqM	4	5	2	25/2/2021	Fully Furnished	Sea View
฿13,900,000	฿69,500	200 SqM	700 SqM	3	3	1	26/7/2019	Unfurnished	Pool View
฿139,000,000	฿81,765	1,700 SqM	2,100 SqM	10	12	3	7/2/2024	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿20,500,000	฿38,826	528 SqM	1,600 SqM	4	6	1	28/4/2020	Fully Furnished	Pool View
฿19,500,000	฿81,250	240 SqM	1,050 SqM	4	3	1	24/2/2021	Partly Furnished	Sea View
฿48,500,000	฿93,269	520 SqM	1,306 SqM	5	6	2	16/5/2022	Fully Furnished	Sea View

 

Wasn't you who said the figures from online real estate agents can not be relied upon, now here you are putting them forward.  That's quite a contradiction. 

 

So, here is a figure for you from the Siam Real Estate website (search Pattaya)  830 properties in Pattaya are for sale, yet, according to you, there's no oversupply here. 

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/search?k[]=Pattaya&type_code=sale&offer_type=&category_id=&min_price=&max_price=&bedroom=&status=available&rent_from=&rent_to=&indoor_area=&land_area=&minimum_yield=

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Wasn't you who said the figures from online real estate agents can not be relied upon, now here you are putting them forward.  That's quite a contradiction. 

 

So, here is a figure for you from the Siam Real Estate website (search Pattaya)  830 properties in Pattaya are for sale, yet, according to you, there's no oversupply here. 

 

https://www.siamrealestate.com/search?k[]=Pattaya&type_code=sale&offer_type=&category_id=&min_price=&max_price=&bedroom=&status=available&rent_from=&rent_to=&indoor_area=&land_area=&minimum_yield=

       No, that wasn't me.  In any case, as usual, you're just deflecting when you are proven wrong.  You made a big point of calling me a liar and demanding that I show some property sales in Pattaya of 20MB, disbelieving me when I posted that some buyers are spending 20MB or more for properties in Pattaya.  

     If I recall, I posted that that was like demanding that I show proof that the sun rises in the morning, since it's such common knowledge, no big deal, and anybody who lives in Pattaya would know that there are properties costing 20MB or more. 

    Nevertheless, after your yammering for some proof of what is common knowledge, I took the time to find you some actual data, which is also correct data.  I know it is correct because I also took the time to check Northshore condo sales on Faz Waz and there was my condo sale listed, with both the correct selling date and the correct selling price.  As always, no charge for this waste of my valuable time.   

Pattaya has transformed alright. The sheer amount of foreigners who come here or live here is enormous. I took a 10 year break from 2012-2022 and when I came back I immediately noticed it's so crowded it's hard to walk across the street. And this was Aug, 2022 right after Covid restrictions were lifted. 2023 was even more crowded. 2024 and 2025 worse and worse. 

 

Here's the problem :

- 16 million foreigners visited Thailand in 2010.

- 35 million foreigners visited Thailand in 2024.

 

I still like it here but I can only do about 7-8 months a year.  When high season really hits in Dec I leave Thailand until May. 

Falang are fewer probably because Pattaya is now Mumbai in Thailand. It's a disgrace. 

On 8/30/2025 at 2:55 AM, thailandsgreat said:

Very good point. I was looking for a spelling similar to "n...ah" but didnt come up with a good one

Well you're all wrong!

It's Farang - as we know the "r" is generally pronounced as an "l" by Asian people speaking English.

On 8/30/2025 at 1:12 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe it is Lazada and Shopee's influence, i buy most things online, even food sometimes so makes sense eventually Big C would need to reduce, Lotus North Pattaya already has

Same in EU.A few years ago no one would have thought of doing all their shopping online. Now all the local shops are closing and city centers are dead. It’s sad. I won’t buy online until the day comes I have to.

On 9/6/2025 at 8:07 PM, geisha said:

I won’t buy online until the day comes I have to.

That day is coming, but until that day arrives, continue paying higher prices from bricks and mortar shops. 

On 8/29/2025 at 7:10 PM, thailandsgreat said:

I haven't been to Big C Extra on Pattaya Glang for a while. Today I noted all scaled down, supermarket and food court. I also read farlang in Pattaya are fewer. I don't frequent tourist areas so often. Can someone please help answer these questions.

 

Why are farlang fewer? Is EU making the Europeans poor so they can not travel? Is Thailand intentionally attracting Indians and Gulf tourists instead? Why? 

 

Is Big C scaling down because farlang are fewer? But where do the Indians and Arabs shop? Is this the same trend in Festival and Walking Street (where I seldom go). Someone said BigC  actually is preparing to expand and build larger areas or repairing a leaking roof?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"farlang", I've seen it spelt like that before but I wonder if that is how he pronounces it.