1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

"Back in the UK clean energy makes our electricity 3x more expensive than anywhere else."

Stop making things up.

Electricity is very expensive in the UK. But the real villain is natural gas and lack of energy storage capacity:

 

Why Britons pay so much for electricity

Almost all the time, expensive gas sets the price

Electricity in Britain is expensive because it is not renewables that set the wholesale price, but gas...

The most obvious solution would be to increase the amount of time that Britain can manage without recourse to gas-fuelled electricity. This would mean that a cheaper form of electricity would determine the price more of the time. But it would require lots more investment in renewables. Though government efforts to speed up approval for solar parks and onshore wind farms are encouraging, sufficient extra supply is unlikely to come on stream quickly.

https://archive.ph/fPVvA#selection-1273.13-1273.464

Russian gas is cheap!

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

His well known support of the oil and gas industry is the main reason.

 

He supports oil and gas strongly because they make giant regular contributions to his election / re-election funds, and they expect something in return: kill renewable developments.

You may be right about that or perhaps Trump understands that humanity prospers and progresses as energy is plentiful and cheap. That cheap energy has been created and developed through oil and gas exploration over many years. Obviously the so called “clean energy” can not replace oil and gas, at this time, because it isn't cheap and doesn't work well. Trying to ban or replace carbon fuels too early is only smart if one is trying to make current populations suffer.

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

What they should be mandating, though would be illegal to, that every rooftop, if applicable, should of solar.   If they really cared about anything.

Who are "they"?

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 But no long term profits in that.

But mountains of short-term profits and political donations, yes?

Rather than look at the Trumpian view of what California does with its energy lets have a look at what AI has to say.

 

 

 

California is a national leader in alternative energy, aggressively transitioning to solar, wind, geothermal, and battery storage to meet ambitious goals of 100% clean electricity by 2045, dri

AI Overview

 

 

 

ven by policies like the Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS) and major investments in renewable capacity and zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs). The state has seen unprecedented growth, with clean energy powering the grid for significant periods and significantly increasing battery storage, effectively debunking myths about renewable reliability. 

California Energy Commission (.gov) +5

 

Key Drivers & Goals

• Ambitious Targets: California aims for 100% clean electricity by 2045, with mandates for 60% by 2030 and 90% by 2035.
• Pivotal Agencies: The California Energy Commission (CEC) and California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) manage programs and enforce standards.
• Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS): A key program ensuring utilities increase renewable energy supply. 
  California Energy Commission (.gov) +1

 

Progress & Successes

• Record Growth: Added over 25,000 MW of new clean energy capacity (including massive battery storage) in recent years, breaking records annually.
• Solar Dominance: Leads the nation in solar energy production, with capacity doubling in recent years.
• Grid Reliability: Achieved days where renewables provided 100% of power, debunking reliability concerns through massive battery storage deployment.
• ZEV Leadership: Hosts the largest EV charging network and has over 2 million ZEVs sold by early 2025. 
  

 

Technologies & Innovations

• Solar & Wind: Primary renewable sources, augmented by geothermal and biomass.
• Battery Storage: A critical component, with storage capacity increasing nearly 2,000% under the current administration.
• Grid Modernization: Innovations in balancing intermittent sources (sun/wind) with storage to provide consistent power.
• Emerging Tech: Exploring wave energy (Eco Wave Power in LA Port) and utilizing solar canal shading for cooling. 
  California State Portal | CA.gov +8

 

Impact

• Economic Growth: A booming clean economy valued in the hundreds of billions.
• Environmental Leadership: Addressing climate change and aiming for a zero-carbon future. 

For a start the material used is plastic based and needs replacing after just a few years. Secondly the land they would occupy is better used for food production to feed the country.

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Who are "they"?

But mountains of short-term profits and political donations, yes?

 

Never happen in the states, as fossil fuel controls the energy supply.   Even the vehicles, and why EV market, manufacturing is stagnant.   3rd world TH is so far ahead on both, and just started with both.

 

Total corruption, and why I would never return.   Nanny state tells you how to live, basically what to buy, even what to eat.   F'that 

 

Land of the Free, to do what they tell you 

Land of Opportunity ... but make your money and leave ASAP

Let's compare the price of energy in two countries.

 

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Russian gas is cheap!

It is cheap. For now. But even before the Ukraine War, the UK had electricity prices higher than most of the EU. Also, one of the goals of Brexit was to make the UK independent of foreign pressure.  Given that wind and solar are actually cheaper than coal and competitive with gas, why wouldn't the UK benefit from this kind of independence? Basically, what it needs is a lot more storage capacity. it's been a laggard with that.

48 minutes ago, 300sd said:

You may be right about that or perhaps Trump understands that humanity prospers and progresses as energy is plentiful and cheap. That cheap energy has been created and developed through oil and gas exploration over many years. Obviously the so called “clean energy” can not replace oil and gas, at this time, because it isn't cheap and doesn't work well. Trying to ban or replace carbon fuels too early is only smart if one is trying to make current populations suffer.

Fossilized thinking from fossil fuel supporters.

In fact, renewables are now cheaper than fossil fuels. Even with storage they are highly competitive and since the cost of storage is plummeting have already made gas peaker plants redundant.

9 minutes ago, jvs said:

Let's compare the price of energy in two countries.

 

 

48 minutes ago, marin said:

Rather than look at the Trumpian view of what California does with its energy lets have a look at what AI has to say.

 

 

 

California is a national leader in alternative energy, aggressively transitioning to solar, wind, geothermal, and battery storage to meet ambitious goals of 100% clean electricity by 2045, dri

AI Overview

 

 

 

ven by policies like the Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS) and major investments in renewable capacity and zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs). The state has seen unprecedented growth, with clean energy powering the grid for significant periods and significantly increasing battery storage, effectively debunking myths about renewable reliability. 

California Energy Commission (.gov) +5

 

Key Drivers & Goals

• Ambitious Targets: California aims for 100% clean electricity by 2045, with mandates for 60% by 2030 and 90% by 2035.
• Pivotal Agencies: The California Energy Commission (CEC) and California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) manage programs and enforce standards.
• Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS): A key program ensuring utilities increase renewable energy supply. 
  California Energy Commission (.gov) +1

 

Progress & Successes

• Record Growth: Added over 25,000 MW of new clean energy capacity (including massive battery storage) in recent years, breaking records annually.
• Solar Dominance: Leads the nation in solar energy production, with capacity doubling in recent years.
• Grid Reliability: Achieved days where renewables provided 100% of power, debunking reliability concerns through massive battery storage deployment.
• ZEV Leadership: Hosts the largest EV charging network and has over 2 million ZEVs sold by early 2025. 
  

 

Technologies & Innovations

• Solar & Wind: Primary renewable sources, augmented by geothermal and biomass.
• Battery Storage: A critical component, with storage capacity increasing nearly 2,000% under the current administration.
• Grid Modernization: Innovations in balancing intermittent sources (sun/wind) with storage to provide consistent power.
• Emerging Tech: Exploring wave energy (Eco Wave Power in LA Port) and utilizing solar canal shading for cooling. 
  California State Portal | CA.gov +8

 

Impact

• Economic Growth: A booming clean economy valued in the hundreds of billions.
• Environmental Leadership: Addressing climate change and aiming for a zero-carbon future. 

A huge expense for California is fireproofing its grid. Not just much to protect it from fires as to stop it causing them. As the climate gets warmer, massive fires are going to be more and more of a problem.

10 hours ago, connda said:

Because "Clean Energy" isn't clean.  That's marketing hype.  Nor is it efficient, nor is it cost effective.  The money that was shoved into so-called "clean energy" would have been a better value by investing it in nuclear and fusion energy.  Once fusion energy is commercially viable, all of this "clean energy" will be shoveled into a landfill where the components that they are made of will leach into the soil and water supplies and create toxic nightmares.
"Clean energy"   <laughs>

I asked this question of Gemini AI

"is nuclear power heavily subsicized in the usa?"

Here was the answer:

Yes, nuclear power has been and continues to be heavily subsidized in the USA through a wide range of direct and indirect support mechanisms. These subsidies support the entire nuclear fuel cycle, from uranium mining to waste disposal and accident liability. 

Key forms of these subsidies include:

• Research and Development (R&D) Funding: Historically, the federal government has invested tens of billions of dollars in nuclear R&D, far more than for other energy sources for much of the 20th century, laying the foundation for the commercial industry.
• Accident Liability Limits: The Price-Anderson Act, first enacted in 1957 and periodically extended, limits the industry's liability in the event of a major nuclear accident. Without this cap (currently around $13 billion), private insurance would likely be unavailable, effectively transferring potentially massive costs to taxpayers.
• Tax Credits and Incentives: Recent legislation, such as the Energy Policy Act of 2005 and the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, provides significant tax incentives, including production tax credits (PTC) and investment tax credits (ITC), for both existing and new nuclear facilities. The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act of 2021 also allocated $6 billion to subsidize the continued operation of plants at risk of closing due to competitive pressures.
• Loan Guarantees: The Department of Energy (DOE) has offered billions of dollars in loan guarantees for advanced reactor projects and plant re-openings, socializing the financial risk for private investors (with the CBO estimating a high risk of default).
• Waste Management Costs: While a fund paid into by nuclear operators was created for permanent waste disposal (Yucca Mountain project), the government has failed to establish a permanent repository, leaving the management of spent fuel in a state of flux with ongoing taxpayer costs for cleanup and storage.
• Indirect/Security Costs: A significant portion of national security, regulation (e.g., the Nuclear Regulatory Commission), and international oversight costs related to nuclear materials and facilities are borne by taxpayers rather than the industry operators. 

16 minutes ago, jvs said:

Let's compare the price of energy in two countries.

 

More deception from the left.

 

 

1 hour ago, marin said:

Rather than look at the Trumpian view of what California does with its energy lets have a look at what AI has to say.

 

 

 

California is a national leader in alternative energy, aggressively transitioning to solar, wind, geothermal, and battery storage to meet ambitious goals of 100% clean electricity by 2045, dri

AI Overview

 

 

 

ven by policies like the Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS) and major investments in renewable capacity and zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs). The state has seen unprecedented growth, with clean energy powering the grid for significant periods and significantly increasing battery storage, effectively debunking myths about renewable reliability. 

California Energy Commission (.gov) +5

 

Key Drivers & Goals

• Ambitious Targets: California aims for 100% clean electricity by 2045, with mandates for 60% by 2030 and 90% by 2035.
• Pivotal Agencies: The California Energy Commission (CEC) and California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) manage programs and enforce standards.
• Renewables Portfolio Standard (RPS): A key program ensuring utilities increase renewable energy supply. 
  California Energy Commission (.gov) +1

 

Progress & Successes

• Record Growth: Added over 25,000 MW of new clean energy capacity (including massive battery storage) in recent years, breaking records annually.
• Solar Dominance: Leads the nation in solar energy production, with capacity doubling in recent years.
• Grid Reliability: Achieved days where renewables provided 100% of power, debunking reliability concerns through massive battery storage deployment.
• ZEV Leadership: Hosts the largest EV charging network and has over 2 million ZEVs sold by early 2025. 
  

 

Technologies & Innovations

• Solar & Wind: Primary renewable sources, augmented by geothermal and biomass.
• Battery Storage: A critical component, with storage capacity increasing nearly 2,000% under the current administration.
• Grid Modernization: Innovations in balancing intermittent sources (sun/wind) with storage to provide consistent power.
• Emerging Tech: Exploring wave energy (Eco Wave Power in LA Port) and utilizing solar canal shading for cooling. 
  California State Portal | CA.gov +8

 

Impact

• Economic Growth: A booming clean economy valued in the hundreds of billions.
• Environmental Leadership: Addressing climate change and aiming for a zero-carbon future. 

Scratch "Battery Storage" off the list, that billion-dollar boondoggle that never really worked burned down. 

 

 

"EPA Oversees Largest Lithium-Ion Battery Cleanup in Agency History at Moss Landing"

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-oversees-largest-lithium-ion-battery-cleanup-agency-history-moss-landing

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Scratch "Battery Storage" off the list, that billion-dollar boondoggle that never really worked burned down. 

 

 

"EPA Oversees Largest Lithium-Ion Battery Cleanup in Agency History at Moss Landing"

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-oversees-largest-lithium-ion-battery-cleanup-agency-history-moss-landing

Using your kind of reasoning, if such a comment can be dignified with that word, fossil fuels are another boondoggle:

Massive explosion at largest gas refinery on the East Coast, triggering fire

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/06/21/massive-explosion-at-biggest-gas-refinery-in-east-coast-triggering-fire.html

 

Massive fire at Chevron refinery in California contained, officials say

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2zj84vwe9o

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It is cheap. For now. But even before the Ukraine War, the UK had electricity prices higher than most of the EU. Also, one of the goals of Brexit was to make the UK independent of foreign pressure.  Given that wind and solar are actually cheaper than coal and competitive with gas, why wouldn't the UK benefit from this kind of independence? Basically, what it needs is a lot more storage capacity. it's been a laggard with that.

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

Solar panel electricity comes from "Light", not heat....🤗

 

https://www.sunhub.com/blog/solar-panels-use-light-not-heat/?srsltid=AfmBOoqohd_QnChCodhDAJUH9Jg3jnxrQV6SVyq7-P0cc2a3wgl9Ehe1

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

Really? The basic feature of Brexit wasn't economic independence from the UK? Stop making things up.

Sadly the United States once the powerhouse of innovation of the future has let an old man cede the future of wind, solar and electric cars to China... 

 

The rest of the world is moving on...

American has only itself to blame...

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

You Google how solar panels work..............🤭

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

Actually, the point of Brexit as far as immigration went was that there were too many EU residents legally moving into the UK. As the National Health staffing situation makes clear, Brexit definitely took care of that problem.

 

In fact, it was opponents of Brexit who pointed out how much more difficult it would be to police illegal immigrants because of the ensuing lack of cooperation from EU members.

29 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Using your kind of reasoning, if such a comment can be dignified with that word, fossil fuels are another boondoggle:

Massive explosion at largest gas refinery on the East Coast, triggering fire

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/06/21/massive-explosion-at-biggest-gas-refinery-in-east-coast-triggering-fire.html

 

Massive fire at Chevron refinery in California contained, officials say

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2zj84vwe9o

Except that (unlike the refineries) the battery boondoggle never really worked, and the -billion-dollar project is being discontinued. 

 

But keep up the deception, there are plenty of Trump hating leftist morons that will believe all the idiocy you spew. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But there's hardly any sun in the UK, so it's just wasting equipment.

And the wind farms are so far from the users, the national grid can't transport the electricity.

 

The point of Brexit was to keep worthless 3rd world foreigners out of the UK, not gas!

So you've done a cost analysis of how much solar power a solar power plant could generate vs. costs? Could you please share your data with us.

So, how is all the wind power now getting to the UK? The record so far is 68.3%. The biggest problem is that there isn't enough storage so that when the turbines make too much electricity they have to be temporarily curtailed.

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Except that (unlike the refineries) the battery boondoggle never really worked, and the -billion-dollar project is being discontinued. 

 

But keep up the deception, there are plenty of Trump hating leftist morons that will believe all the idiocy you spew. 

 

 

That explains why the socialists/marxists in Texas aren't installing batteries at record levels?

ERCOT's Battery Storage Boom: A Strategic Opportunity for Utilities, IPPs, and Developers

One of the fastest-growing battery storage markets in the country, Texas ranks second only to California in terms of installed capacity and has more capacity than the remaining 48 states combined.

https://www.yesenergy.com/blog/ercots-battery-storage-boom

 

 

2 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

So you've done a cost analysis of how much solar power a solar power plant could generate vs. costs? Could you please share your data with us.

So, how is all the wind power now getting to the UK? The record so far is 68.3%. The biggest problem is that there isn't enough storage so that when the turbines make too much electricity they have to be temporarily curtailed.

That's like saying the biggest problem with the desert is that there is not enough water. 

 

How much battery is needed to provide uninterrupted energy to power London for a week when the Sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing?

 

If solar is so cheap, why is electricity so expensive where areas with a large percentage of power comes from solar?

 

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

That's like saying the biggest problem with the desert is that there is not enough water. 

 

How much battery is needed to provide uninterrupted energy to power London for a week when the Sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing?

 

If solar is so cheap, why is electricity so expensive where areas with a large percentage of power comes from solar?

 

What about this comment from KhunLA didn't you understand?

 

5 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

That explains why the socialists/marxists in Texas aren't installing batteries at record levels?

ERCOT's Battery Storage Boom: A Strategic Opportunity for Utilities, IPPs, and Developers

One of the fastest-growing battery storage markets in the country, Texas ranks second only to California in terms of installed capacity and has more capacity than the remaining 48 states combined.

https://www.yesenergy.com/blog/ercots-battery-storage-boom

 

 

Interestingly, your chart lists California with only ~11MW when Moss Landing was almost 1000MW when it was shuttled, so it never actually worked. 

 

 

14 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Wind energy requires government subsidies

 

Google estimates that in 2024 the US subsidies for all wind and solar was $31.4 billion which is what a pair of Trump class battleships will cost...  Sad... 

 

4 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

What about this comment from KhunLA didn't you understand?

 

What about it?

 

Again, how much battery is needed to provide uninterrupted energy to power London for a week when the Sun is not shining and the wind is not blowing?

 

And, if solar is so cheap, why is electricity so expensive where areas with a large percentage of power comes from solar?

18 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

So you've done a cost analysis of how much solar power a solar power plant could generate vs. costs? Could you please share your data with us.

So, how is all the wind power now getting to the UK? The record so far is 68.3%. The biggest problem is that there isn't enough storage so that when the turbines make too much electricity they have to be temporarily curtailed.

Do you think that private companies that generate electricity do not do cost analysis? 

 

Yes, when the wind blows really hard, it works great. The rest of the time? Not so much. 

7 minutes ago, BKKKevin said:

 

Google estimates that in 2024 the US subsidies for all wind and solar was $31.4 billion which is what a pair of Trump class battleships will cost...  Sad... 

 

Battleships are more important