18 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

However, enough irrational hatred of Jews remains to make a homeland for the world's Jews an absolute necessity.

I think making a homeland for Jews is a good thing. But how do you do that?

By taking away someone else’s homeland and they saying it belongs to you?

Isn’t that stealing?

Hate speech reported and removed.

NO MORE of that please @Packer

8 hours ago, Somjot said:

But Jews seem to be the only group of people who insist on having a word which describes the hate towards them exclusively and even defend it tooth and nail: anti-semitism.

English abounds with words that denote hatred towards various groups. How about Islamophobia, which dates back more than 100 years? Or homophobia? Transphobia? And there's Anglophobia (hatred of England and the English) and Francophobia (hatred of France and the French), as well as numerous others about nationalities. Anti-Americanism goes back to 1828.

There are also dozens of words covering fear or hatred of non-national groups of people, such a coulrophobia (clowns), gerontophobia (elderly people) and androphobia (men). You can find of a list of ethnic and national "phobias" at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_phobias.

Antisemitism may be the world's oldest hatred, but it is definitely not unique.

8 hours ago, Somjot said:

I can only guess that is because you do not really want it to end. You want to keep your members by birth only religion and use that expression as a shield to label anyone who opposes you as deeply evil and therefore his criticism can only be based on evil lies, even if it is true.

You are mistaken. As much as any people on earth, Israelis and all other Jews want wars to end. Constant war for 78 years has been enough.

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think making a homeland for Jews is a good thing. But how do you do that?

By taking away someone else’s homeland and they saying it belongs to you?

Isn’t that stealing?

Who owned what land in Mandatory Palestine is a complicated issue that leaves historians deeply divided. Most of the land that became Israel had been owned by the Ottoman Empire or absentee landlords in Istanbul, Cairo and Damascus. It had not been owned by the Palestinian peasant farmers who lived and worked there. Also, many of the Arabs who lived in Mandatory Palestine were recent immigrants; they had not lived there for centuries.

Given those factors, from whom did Israelis steal the land? The Ottoman Empire no longer existed and the absentee landlords didn't have their homeland taken away.

5 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

Who owned what land in Mandatory Palestine is a complicated issue that leaves historians deeply divided. Most of the land that became Israel had been owned by the Ottoman Empire or absentee landlords in Istanbul, Cairo and Damascus. It had not been owned by the Palestinian peasant farmers who lived and worked there. Also, many of the Arabs who lived in Mandatory Palestine were recent immigrants; they had not lived there for centuries.

Given those factors, from whom did Israelis steal the land? The Ottoman Empire no longer existed and the absentee landlords didn't have their homeland taken away.

Israel demonizers and fellow travelers don't do complicated.

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think making a homeland for Jews is a good thing. But how do you do that?

By taking away someone else’s homeland and they saying it belongs to you?

Isn’t that stealing?

Hilarious.

I used to often find arrowheads where I grew up in the United States.

12 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

leaves historians deeply divided.

Well, that's the thing. The people that owned those plots of land thousands of years ago are long dead, and they (as they are long dead) or their current ancestors hundreds of generations later have no right to it today. I cannot come to your house and say that a relative of mine owned this plot of land 3,000 years ago so it's mine, pack your bags and your family and get off it now and go live in a camp. That would be ridiculous, right? 🙂

Maybe me being a non native speaker with only a few years of learning English at school for only 3 hours a week some 45 years ago just had a poor choice of words or maybe what I wrote infuriated you so much, that you missed the details and therefore misunderstood. I had no such intensions. So for clarification:

10 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Assuming all that is true, isn´t it even more irrational to go on with their old ways and keep being targetted?

Maintaining their religion and religious identity is of supreme importance to some Jews. It's a matter of personal conscience, In Western democracies, Jews should be allowed to believe and practice their religion as they see fit, as long as they don't break secular laws. It's the intolerant types who target Jews who need to change, not the Jews.

Wouldn´t it be better for everybody on this planet if Jews gave up their exclusive "ancestry only" Religion and transform it into something more modern and open minded and "everybody welcome" thing like Christianity or Islam?

I can't see how anyone would benefit from Jews giving up their religion, anymore than if the Amish, Mormons, Christian Scientists, Hindus or Buddhists gave up theirs. The practice of Judaism as a religion doesn't harm anyone.

I did not demand anyone to give up their religion, I just suggested Jews give up their "members only" rule. It is more or less quite easy to convert to all the religions you named, but converting to Judaism is almost impossible, takes long time while you never know if you are accepted in the end.

A girl I once knew was born to a Christian mother and a Jewish father; from Childhood on she loved to spend time with the Jewish community as she emotionally, spiritually and intellectually saw herself as a Jew.

Hoping to be a part of the Jewish community she went through that conversion process in which, if I remember it correctly, she had to study all aspects of Jewish life not only religion and fully dedicate herself to Jewry which he diligently did.

After a few years she finally stood in front of some kind of committee, Rabbis I guess, to undergo some kind of test and at the end she was rejected.

She was devastated.

10 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Especially after the Third Reich the world has become a bit allergic to people who think of themselves and their ethnicity of being something better compared to the rest of the world. Being chosen by nature to be the "Herrenrasse" or being chosen by my own God over other people goes pretty much in the same direction.

I've answered you before about equating "the chosen people" with "Herrenrasse." I'll repeat that answer below.

On 10/15/2025 at 6:04 PM, Evil Penevil said:

Be careful, @Somjot,  you are getting close to classic anti-Jewish tropes.   Herrenrasse  translates more accurately as "master race, "   which has nothing to do with the Jewish concept of a chosen people.  Jews consider themselves to be "chosen people" because they believe God chose them for a special covenant, It is not based on racial or ethnic superiority.  

I don't speak German, but according Internet sources, the correct translation of "the chosen people" when referring to Jews is "das auserwähltes Volk."

I wasn´t equating, I was just mentioning that the world might be a bit allergic to people who see themselves above others, especially after the Third Reich with the Nazis, who saw their race somehow favored by nature and superior to others which is why they called themselves the Herrenrasse, the race of the lords.

Jews believe that God created all humanity but somehow considered only them to be worthy enough to agree on a formal contract with or as you call it, the covenant.

And that is in my opinion a bit problematic as it opens doors to "legal" abominations were perpetrators won´t second-guess or even suffer from a bad conscious as a higher power told them or enabled them to act like that and will take full responsibility for that.

"I am from the best race of entire humanity. It is my duty to wipe out minor races same as nature´s law about the survival of the fittest has done since the beginning of time."

"I am chosen by God. My God told my ancestors to kill all Amalekites including women, children and livestock. That´s why every man, woman and child in Gaza is my enemy and there is no sin in killing them. There are no innocents in Gaza."

The last sentence can be heard quite often in interviews with Israelis.

10 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I mean, after 78 years of that "absolute necessity", as you call Israel, I can´t see any decrease of anti-Semitism, rather an increase.

If antisemitism is increasing (and it is), that underscores the "absolute necessity"of a Jewish homeland and Jewish majority state. Jews cannot rely on non-Jews to protect them when push comes to shove. They have to do it themselves.

That is debatable as there are other ways to reduce or even eliminate anti-semitism, one of them being what I suggested, giving up this elite club behavior.

Don´t you see the moral double standard in what you wrote.

Jews insist on a Jewish homeland as they can only rely on themselves to protect them from murder, rape, displacement and dispossession and then create and expand that homeland by murder, rape, displacement and dispossession of the native population.

And please don´t tell me Jews are the only true native people to Palestine.

Your European appearance and genetics, you other than the Palestinians being allergic to the native olive tree pollen and many other facts tell another story and legally it´s simply "Move your feet, lose your seat".

No one can come back after Thousands of years and claim land ownership.

If so, US Americans would be in big trouble now.

7 minutes ago, Somjot said:

Maybe me being a non native speaker with only a few years of learning English at school for only 3 hours a week some 45 years ago just had a poor choice of words or maybe what I wrote infuriated you so much, that you missed the details and therefore misunderstood. I had no such intensions. So for clarification:

I did not demand anyone to give up their religion, I just suggested Jews give up their "members only" rule. It is more or less quite easy to convert to all the religions you named, but converting to Judaism is almost impossible, takes long time while you never know if you are accepted in the end.

A girl I once knew was born to a Christian mother and a Jewish father; from Childhood on she loved to spend time with the Jewish community as she emotionally, spiritually and intellectually saw herself as a Jew.

Hoping to be a part of the Jewish community she went through that conversion process in which, if I remember it correctly, she had to study all aspects of Jewish life not only religion and fully dedicate herself to Jewry which he diligently did.

After a few years she finally stood in front of some kind of committee, Rabbis I guess, to undergo some kind of test and at the end she was rejected.

She was devastated.

I wasn´t equating, I was just mentioning that the world might be a bit allergic to people who see themselves above others, especially after the Third Reich with the Nazis, who saw their race somehow favored by nature and superior to others which is why they called themselves the Herrenrasse, the race of the lords.

Jews believe that God created all humanity but somehow considered only them to be worthy enough to agree on a formal contract with or as you call it, the covenant.

And that is in my opinion a bit problematic as it opens doors to "legal" abominations were perpetrators won´t second-guess or even suffer from a bad conscious as a higher power told them or enabled them to act like that and will take full responsibility for that.

"I am from the best race of entire humanity. It is my duty to wipe out minor races same as nature´s law about the survival of the fittest has done since the beginning of time."

"I am chosen by God. My God told my ancestors to kill all Amalekites including women, children and livestock. That´s why every man, woman and child in Gaza is my enemy and there is no sin in killing them. There are no innocents in Gaza."

The last sentence can be heard quite often in interviews with Israelis.

That is debatable as there are other ways to reduce or even eliminate anti-semitism, one of them being what I suggested, giving up this elite club behavior.

Don´t you see the moral double standard in what you wrote.

Jews insist on a Jewish homeland as they can only rely on themselves to protect them from murder, rape, displacement and dispossession and then create and expand that homeland by murder, rape, displacement and dispossession of the native population.

And please don´t tell me Jews are the only true native people to Palestine.

Your European appearance and genetics, you other than the Palestinians being allergic to the native olive tree pollen and many other facts tell another story and legally it´s simply "Move your feet, lose your seat".

No one can come back after Thousands of years and claim land ownership.

If so, US Americans would be in big trouble now.

So basically you have a problem with Jews because they're different.

In what insane world is it YOUR business what the conversion process for Judaism or any other religion?
I find Christians over the top with their obsession to convert people (in my experience converting a Jew is a special catch) but I wouldn't for one minute think it is my business to tell them they shouldn't do that.

It's called freedom of religion.

Overall, I find your POV extremely INTOLERANT.

Tell your "friend" to try converting to Reform Judaism.