Sin Sot Psychology And Consequent Burnout

[Latindancer]

I thought I had come to terms with Sin Sot and the expectation of my future father-in-law that I pay it. After all, he apparently will be satisfied with 40,000 baht, plus a little more as my half share of the wedding costs.

It will only be a small wedding in the family home in Issan.

But it seems that when my fiancee and I raise the topic between ourselves, I get really irritable. Why is this ???

I think it is because MY idea of it is that I am compensating her parents for their expenses in bringing her up. But she seems to have the attitude that a girl is worth more because she is a government teacher

(which she is) and that payment is being calculated on THAT basis. That is to say, on her perceived worth (despite having been married once before)........rather than payment being made on the basis of how much her parents spent on her. Not that I would want to pay them exactly that much.....just a token amount as gratitude for bringing up a really nice girl.....but on that basis.

The way she looks at it, it seems like she is selling herself, which I know is not the case. We are very compatible, and I have known her almost 2 years.

I'm feeling really damned irritable, and we usually have no issues between us. I need to come to terms with her way of thinking. Any positive suggestions, anyone ?

Edited December 13, 2010 by Latindancer

[Ulysses G.]

None. You were right the first time. It sounds exactly like she is selling herself.

[Latindancer]

Yes..........SOME people think that none is due if she has been married before. But upon searching this forum, apparently OTHER people seem to have experienced differently. There seems to be no definite, set rule.

All I know is that when I once told her father (through her) that I didn't want to pay, he apparently walked around all day in a really bad mood. And he's usually a pretty level-headed guy (doesn't drink). So I conceded, in order to keep the peace. After all, 40,000 baht is not a huge amount of money, and I'll probably be paying that anyway over a few years, just helping them along every month or so. Why not label it "Sin Sot" and keep em happy ? Especially if I DON'T have to pay anything for a while after the wedding and Sin Sot.

My problem is with my fiancee's thinking.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Latindancer

[Kwasaki]

Sorry pal I really don't see what your problem is apart from your fiancee's, what does she want you to do ???

[Ulysses G.]

All I know is that when I once told her father (through her) that I didn't want to pay, he apparently walked around all day in a really bad mood.

I bet he did!

[Boater]

All I know is that when I once told her father (through her) that I didn't want to pay, he apparently walked around all day in a really bad mood.

I bet he did!

your answer awaits in this thread - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/425477-the-case-against-sin-soht-and-other-reasons-not-to-give-thai-women-money/

[PattayaParent]

All I know is that when I once told her father (through her) that I didn't want to pay, he apparently walked around all day in a really bad mood.

I bet he did!

your answer awaits in this thread - http://www.thaivisa....ai-women-money/

But that threads been closed, twice!!!!

[fletchsmile]

Don't know why I can never automatically quote OP anymore, but quoting:

"But it seems that when my fiancee and I raise the topic between ourselves, I get really irritable. Why is this ???"

Probably because it goes against the way you were brought up. Years of being told what is normal and what is not. In terms of SinSot the western cultural norm and your Thai half's cultural norms are opposite. You've both been brought up or dare I say "brainwashed" (harsh?) by your environment.

I'm feeling really damned irritable, and we usually have no issues between us. I need to come to terms with her way of thinking. Any positive suggestions, anyone ?

Questions (of many)?: Ask yourself: are you simply letting your pre-conceived (and perhaps even prejudiced) ideas get in the way of a happy future? Are you more concerned with "winning" or building a future together. Are you thinking just "win" or "win-lose" rather than "win-win" as a partnership?

Suggestions: Talk it over with your intended. Explain how you feel. Your pasts are different, your future needs to be combined. In what ways will she compromise for your values?

To share a personal situation. To be honest I was also uncomfortable with the idea based on my upbringing. Looking back with hindsight, I certainly do not regret my decision in deciding this was not a "battle to fight" or continue to argue about. I answered the questions above for myself, even though it didn't feel quite right: heart vs head vs upbringing. In the end, I paid a reasonable amount compared to what my wife's brothers/sisters/cousins did.

Several years later if you gave me a choice between all the money I have or my wife and kids - it's a no brainer. As time goes by, the SinSot sum looks smaller and smaller, and not just becuase of inflation although that helps too

BTW Just because she's marrying a foreigner or just because she's been married before does not necessarily mean no Sin Sot. Look for what others did in the extended family as you best guide. Contrary to many on here Sinsot was not created to rip off foreigners. Although it has obviously been abused for that purpose quite a few times

[Loz]

I'll say it now. Don't Marry her, the troubles are just beginning.

Now if you want to save this post somewhere in an "He told me so" folder and revisit it in 36 Months I would be happy to offer you a Sum num na on that day over a friendly beer.

You've been told.

[rgs2001uk]

Tell her to Foxtrot Oscar, she is taking the piss.

What exactly is her perceived worth, a previously married school teacher who will be lucky to be earning 15,000 per month.

If she was such a great catch why werent the locals beating a path to her fathers door.

Seems like the father knows the score but this woman has face issues.

[richard_smith237]

What ever you agree to or compromise on now, you are laying the foundation for your future.

Many posters will disagree with what I am about to say, however it has worked out for me. I don't think money comes into this (for the Op), its more to do with control or lack thereof.

You are stepping into a union where traditionally you have been brought up where you would one day be in control or at least have a 50% share of the control with your wife.

You are perhaps now recognising that decisions are being made without you and your opinion is not worth to others in your union what it is worth to you.

You may need to place your wife on side. She is marrying a westerner and she has chosen to do so in the same manner you have chosen to marry a Thai. There is no compromise there, this is what you both want. The compromise must exist on the parents side where they expect to maintain decision making power. Its hard work but you need to crack this or you will face headaches with interfering parents for the rest of your days - It is also the one sure fire way to either gain the true respect of your In Laws or destroy your relationship, a lot of it depends on the strength of your wife and the strength of her feelings towards you compared to her family.

Your wife needs to understand that a compromise exists on both sides but must also be prepared to choose you over her parents should it come to that. The parents will pick up on this and things may likely become easier between all of you once they have accepted this reality that you are the one in charge.

I was extremely stubborn with many aspects of my wedding, I often provided my wife with the explanation that I am saying no in some cases to plant the seed in her parents eyes that what ever decisions are made in the future, its down to us. After periods of tension there is now a very harmonious family relationship where my views are respected equally (and often more so)... Oh, and I gave sin-sod and it was all returned.

[Beetlejuice]

These sorts of threads appear time and time again.

If you are stupid enough to pay huge sums of money to strangers who frankly would not pee in your mouth if you were dying of thirst in the desert, by all means go ahead.

Or if you would prefer to test this girl’s undying eternal love for you, then don`t pay it and see whether she stays or goes elsewhere to find another twonk willing to refurnish her parents property and increase status within they’re village.

My advice is; give whatever they demand, because you people never listen anyway. Not sure why these questions are asked on Thai visa because the guy’s mind is already made up.

I take comfort in knowing; that I will be a lot richer then you in the not so far off future, because my IQ is obviously higher then a guy who is keen to give all for a temporary bed warmer.

Now would I lie to you?

[ballbreaker]

My problem is with my fiancee's thinking.

Seems to me that sin sot is a deal struck between the man, or his representative if any, and the parents of the woman involved. Your GF should have no say in the matter.

I personally don't agree with the practice but since its such a small amount why not proceed to keep parents happy.

[nattydread]

your fiance knows very well that sinsot is not expected because she has been married before which leads me to believe she sees u as a buffalo and an ATM machine.........if u do go ahead and marry her rent a property and wait a few years before committing to build or buy a house to see how things pan out

Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out

[appropriate]

Tell her you're income is taking a hit for a few months due to a complication, that she'll have to support you until it's fixed, and after it's all sorted, you'll pay for the sinsot.

See how well she takes care of you.

And knowing her for 2 years is nothing. Double it at least before you do anything with money and marriage ceremonies.

Cheers chaps.

Dominic.

[appropriate]

And btw, don't go building a house in anybody else's name, not anywhere in the world, especially here.

If you need to buy - make it a condo in your sole name, and rent a house if you really need one.

If you're desperate to buy a house, buy the pre fab wooden ones, keep all the receipts, then you can have it taken down and moved to another plot of land any time you wish.

[appropriate]

And yes, her and the family know full well that no sinsod is expected as she's already been married, so they take you for a fool.

Does that sit well?

[neverdie]

And btw, don't go building a house in anybody else's name, not anywhere in the world, especially here.

If you need to buy - make it a condo in your sole name, and rent a house if you really need one.

If you're desperate to buy a house, buy the pre fab wooden ones, keep all the receipts, then you can have it taken down and moved to another plot of land any time you wish.

Very appropriate advice.

Sadly, there is a sucker born every minute & one enters Thailand every second minute. (I wonder where the others go?).

OP, In any relationship there should be give & take & that should be shared out evenly and fairly. You need to be well aware of your financial decisions & make sure they are in your own best interests because theres a good chance those others won't be on the lookout for you. Good luck with it.

[ozzieovaseas]

These sorts of threads appear time and time again.

If you are stupid enough to pay huge sums of money to strangers who frankly would not pee in your mouth if you were dying of thirst in the desert, by all means go ahead.

Or if you would prefer to test this girl's undying eternal love for you, then don`t pay it and see whether she stays or goes elsewhere to find another twonk willing to refurnish her parents property and increase status within they're village.

My advice is; give whatever they demand, because you people never listen anyway. Not sure why these questions are asked on Thai visa because the guy's mind is already made up.

I take comfort in knowing; that I will be a lot richer then you in the not so far off future, because my IQ is obviously higher then a guy who is keen to give all for a temporary bed warmer.

Now would I lie to you?

Temporary bed warmer?? Ouch, thats a helluva of putting forward a vote of no confidence.

Actually i do feel sorry for anyone put in this position. You have gone on so far, probably all well and good into what you thought was going to be a blissfull relationship..probably had a fair mix of drama and passion??...and then the good ol Sinsod issue rears its ugly head.

This puts you in a very awkward position, as you no doubt have feelings for her after all, right??...and THEY know it, yet have no scruples in using it against you..which are disgusting tactics for a start IMO.

Yes, i have been a potential "sinsodder" (the amount was a LOT higher) but my thoughts were thus:

Does this person love me? Do these people have ANY respect for me as a person? AND by going through with this am i simply setting myself up to be a neverending meal ticket?

Lets look at your options:

If you refuse to play ball you are labelled as "stingy" and of course then the inferrance is that you "dont really love her".

If you agree on a lesser amount you will NEVER live it down. Not with them..EVER..YES, they will EASILY and convieniently forget any loans or generosity you offer in good faith, but still the label "keenok" will follow you and your girl around for the rest of your days here.

Of course they know this whole charade is emotional blackmail, but they just simply dont care as long as they can get their greedy little paws on some easy money. And they would NEVER dare try it on a Thai guy in this situation, no matter what her job prospects are..otherwise they would have been married to a thai already..

(off topic, but interesting that most Thai guys, at least those i know, wouldnt be seen dead with a lady of "highly dark tanning", let alone pay sinsod or marry...but not for a moment am i suggesting this is rellevant in your situation)

But what bugs me the most is the feelings you develop for these girls are genuine, as you are not reliant on ANYTHING from these people...yet these genuine feelings are left to let flourish innocently, all the better for the fleecing....this is why nowadays i bring the sinsod issue up myself, usually about 2 or 3 months in.

So out of interest, were you told of this issue by her in the early days?

If these people had any decency they should know handing over bulk cash in the guise of love would be a thorny issue for anyone...but no...for the farang we are rich and it doesnt matter and such respect is not needed or afforded us..greed easily wins over.

The other thing that bugs me in these scenes is that they love to make the lavish plans..all discussing everything in Thai, while you have little choice but to wait silently, sitting in the corner with your ATM card at the ready.

SO...should ask..Does the person whos actually paying for all this have ANY input? whatsoever?..we would most likely be told we are the farang making trouble again!!!!

Who knows what part (or if any) your girl is actually playing in this. I'd suggest the pressure has been coming from family in all directions, so in that case its understandably very hard for her to stand up against a bunch of...well...elders..for want of a better word.

Ive tried to look at this many ways during different relatioships and at the end of the day the only thing i can call it is, at best, emotional blackmail and manipulation.Would someone who really loves you be prepared to put you on the spot like this?

The best way to test the mettle is to insinuate that you havent got this money handy and have to rely on investments..then you will see who hangs around and who does'nt.

Having said all that, this figure you have been asked of really small change when you think about it in terms of cost in the west, so if you think you have a good girl, then go for it. Only you and her know the real realities and intamacy of your relationship. What a bunch of us jaded farang say on websites has zilch to do with it.

Just saying, ive been asked for 200k in the past, although typically it seems most families consider a farang good for the round figure of 100k.. to test the water first and then invariably back pedal down to double figure k's, when they realise the farang ain't as stupid as all their fellow villagers seem to believe.

Unfortunately, or probably best to say fortunately, i am quite sickened and bored by the whole thing before it gets to that point..kinda explains why im still single and have no intentions of marrying here

[Loz]

wow! you guys got medieval on his ass! listen to the forum hustle, grow a pair and move on. i know you are kunt struck now, but it will pass.

[crazygreg44]

Don't know why I can never automatically quote OP anymore, but quoting:

"But it seems that when my fiancee and I raise the topic between ourselves, I get really irritable. Why is this ???"

Probably because it goes against the way you were brought up. Years of being told what is normal and what is not. In terms of SinSot the western cultural norm and your Thai half's cultural norms are opposite. You've both been brought up or dare I say "brainwashed" (harsh?) by your environment.

I'm feeling really damned irritable, and we usually have no issues between us. I need to come to terms with her way of thinking. Any positive suggestions, anyone ?

Questions (of many)?: Ask yourself: are you simply letting your pre-conceived (and perhaps even prejudiced) ideas get in the way of a happy future? Are you more concerned with "winning" or building a future together. Are you thinking just "win" or "win-lose" rather than "win-win" as a partnership?

Suggestions: Talk it over with your intended. Explain how you feel. Your pasts are different, your future needs to be combined. In what ways will she compromise for your values?

To share a personal situation. To be honest I was also uncomfortable with the idea based on my upbringing. Looking back with hindsight, I certainly do not regret my decision in deciding this was not a "battle to fight" or continue to argue about. I answered the questions above for myself, even though it didn't feel quite right: heart vs head vs upbringing. In the end, I paid a reasonable amount compared to what my wife's brothers/sisters/cousins did.

Several years later if you gave me a choice between all the money I have or my wife and kids - it's a no brainer. As time goes by, the SinSot sum looks smaller and smaller, and not just becuase of inflation although that helps too

BTW Just because she's marrying a foreigner or just because she's been married before does not necessarily mean no Sin Sot. Look for what others did in the extended family as you best guide. Contrary to many on here Sinsot was not created to rip off foreigners. Although it has obviously been abused for that purpose quite a few times

I d say this is by far the best opinion and reply over Sin Sod issues since I have started to read these posts !

Allow me my two cents, I was short of replying, I have never had this issue on the table again after telling my Thai GF that paying Sin Sod for me is not acceptable, as A) she is not a virgin any more ( while sporting a broad grin , an she was married before and has two kids which I am willing to support along with her ( my broad grinning becoming more serene ) and C) I kindly ask her to querry what she would prefer : A big Cash sum on the hand now , for once, and a bad mooded husband, or , better , suitable sums trickling all the time while we are happily married ( the grin becomes almost sermon like )

She is into tradition, while I am farang and into MY tradition. Tell her it should be viewed onto based on BOTH partners. And a nice, sound compromise made which will satisfy both you and Stepdad ( i bet he needs a new motosai, then why don t buy him one, 40K is no sum, BUT DO NOT CALL IT SIN SOD before you have not talked it out to the satisfying final with your other half !!! Tell Stepdad that he will not receive Sin Sod but here's some wardrobe & wedding party support !

It s the ART of bringing the two different cultures together while not loosing face and makinf sure the other does not loose it, either

[richard_smith237]

FYI the prices vary dramatically...

The Sin Sod for my wife's Cousin was agreed at 3 Million Baht. I'm not sure if it was returned... the husband is Thai.

For another Cousin it was 400,000 Baht. I'm not sure if it was returned... husband is Thai

For my wife, who's own social status and that of her family maybe considered higher than her cousins the price of Sin-Sod was always on an 'up to you' basis, I was prepared to offer 1 MB but insisted that I required the rest of my savings for our future and hence a higher Sin-Sod (as with her cousin wedding) was not an option. I wanted to know that this money was for 'show' and not for keeps (probably as a result of a lot of paranoia I read on this forum). I was informed that it was not our decision what is done with the Sin-Sod but that of the In-Laws. I dropped the Sin-Sod to 400,000 Baht based on the fact that I will use it for our house.

I insisted that no show be made of the Sin-Sod, that no announcements were to be made of it and anything involving shows of wealth and money be dealt with discreetly as in my culture it is seen as a little off putting to show off and my Parents (who were attending) may not approve (this is where the compromise that there are two cultures meeting in the middle comes in, and not one culture adopting any other).

I also insisted that I as am English and hence we will have the wedding of my Wife's choosing which is to be more Western in Styling (with Thai and Chinese overtones) rather than the garish displays of opulence often associated with Chinese style weddings.

Throughout these issues I was very polite, assertive and most of all my wife backed me up. My In Laws in response returned all the Sin-Sod and gave us Land in Bangkok upon which to build a house (a few km's from theirs I might add) . In return, I will build my wife and I a house that can accommodate her parents into their old age so that when they are no longer able to cope for themselves we can help.

These days most formalities have been dropped - its more hugs than wai's... and genuine request for our company. I now miss my inlaws when I haven't seen them for more than a week.... Most of this has grown from an initial 'firmness' on my part that has helped nurture a genuine and mutual respect.

I suggest the Op chooses if he wants to cave in, or grow a pair and act his roll in all this. No one wants their children to marry a pussy (or a total asshol_e to that point).

Edited December 13, 2010 by richard_smith237

[tim armstrong]

Is it a full moon yet ? So many grumpy old men on this one. I think Loz has got to the core. It really is decision time.

FROM HER SIDE:

She needs security = money = farlang = providing for parents = saving face from the cultural perception that as she has already been married and FAILED, especially as she is a teacher.

And what of love oh grasshopper?! Well he's an ok guy,and I like him, and he can be manipulated with sweet talk = love thai style.

FROM YOUR SIDE:

I think she loves me, and we get on well, and its not a lot of money, and its the custom. OK then.

But jing jing! Love, and sex are tradeable assets in Thailand.

There is no such thing as 'for richer or poorer, and for better or worse' Its a western concept !!!

So the real question is - Is there enough in this relationship for me -right now? -knowing its not about love, or my body. But it is about the size of my... wait for it.... bank balance and my ability to support a growing number of people for a long time!

( Well yes I'm a bit grumpy today - have just started a diet.)

[richard_smith237]

Is it a full moon yet ? So many grumpy old men on this one. I think Loz has got to the core. It really is decision time.

FROM HER SIDE:

She needs security = money = farlang = providing for parents = saving face from the cultural perception that as she has already been married and FAILED, especially as she is a teacher.

And what of love oh grasshopper?! Well he's an ok guy,and I like him, and he can be manipulated with sweet talk = love thai style.

FROM YOUR SIDE:

I think she loves me, and we get on well, and its not a lot of money, and its the custom. OK then.

But jing jing! Love, and sex are tradeable assets in Thailand.

There is no such thing as 'for richer or poorer, and for better or worse' Its a western concept !!!

So the real question is - Is there enough in this relationship for me -right now? -knowing its not about love, or my body. But it is about the size of my... wait for it.... bank balance and my ability to support a growing number of people for a long time!

( Well yes I'm a bit grumpy today - have just started a diet.)

I have told my wife... that many people don't spell well, and its actually "Four Richer, Four Poorer, Four Better and Four Worse.... So be good or she'll end up as one of 16 !"

[nam-thip]

I wouldnt pay a bean as it's a Thai and not farang tradition.

Asking Sin Sod from farangs has to be a piss take.

Quote: If your Thai woman is reasonable and understanding (which is usually never) she will neither expect nor will demand sin sod-- and neither will her parents. But unfortunately, there are some Thai women, mostly whores and gold diggers, who will take advantage of a farang’s ignorance in order to con them out of some money.

A fool and his money are soon parted in Thailand.

[TexasRanger]

A lot of "experts" here saying sin sod should not be paid if she was married before. Not the case at all. There is a lady in my village who has been married before and recently re-married to another Thai man and sin sod was paid. OK, it wasn't a lot of money, but it was paid. And for the record, there have been numerous Thai/Thai marriages where I live, and all paid a dowry of varying amounts. The whole "it's a farang rip off thing" is nonsense.

[MiG16]

Don't know why I can never automatically quote OP anymore, but quoting:

"But it seems that when my fiancee and I raise the topic between ourselves, I get really irritable. Why is this ???"

Probably because it goes against the way you were brought up. Years of being told what is normal and what is not. In terms of SinSot the western cultural norm and your Thai half's cultural norms are opposite. You've both been brought up or dare I say "brainwashed" (harsh?) by your environment.

I'm feeling really damned irritable, and we usually have no issues between us. I need to come to terms with her way of thinking. Any positive suggestions, anyone ?

Questions (of many)?: Ask yourself: are you simply letting your pre-conceived (and perhaps even prejudiced) ideas get in the way of a happy future? Are you more concerned with "winning" or building a future together. Are you thinking just "win" or "win-lose" rather than "win-win" as a partnership?

Suggestions: Talk it over with your intended. Explain how you feel. Your pasts are different, your future needs to be combined. In what ways will she compromise for your values?

To share a personal situation. To be honest I was also uncomfortable with the idea based on my upbringing. Looking back with hindsight, I certainly do not regret my decision in deciding this was not a "battle to fight" or continue to argue about. I answered the questions above for myself, even though it didn't feel quite right: heart vs head vs upbringing. In the end, I paid a reasonable amount compared to what my wife's brothers/sisters/cousins did.

Several years later if you gave me a choice between all the money I have or my wife and kids - it's a no brainer. As time goes by, the SinSot sum looks smaller and smaller, and not just becuase of inflation although that helps too

BTW Just because she's marrying a foreigner or just because she's been married before does not necessarily mean no Sin Sot. Look for what others did in the extended family as you best guide. Contrary to many on here Sinsot was not created to rip off foreigners. Although it has obviously been abused for that purpose quite a few times

I d say this is by far the best opinion and reply over Sin Sod issues since I have started to read these posts !

agree with crazygreg

fletch has given a very balanced view of what can be done

OP, you say you already agree to pay, but are just wanting to find a way to come to terms with the idea of paying. what fletch has shared with you would probably be the best way to approach it.

and to be honest, if you have already decided you dont mind paying, I would not spend too much time reading the naysayers. not saying they are wrong (although some do have some misperceptions about the practice. also keep in mind the practice varies between different people, and it has evolved in different socio-economic strata)

but my point is, if your answer is already a yes, then you need to focus on

1. finding the benefits/the positives of your decision - for your own peace of mind. no reason to keep debating a done deal. especially debating with yourself!

(its kinda like post purchase anxiety - if Ive already bought a pair of shoes, I wouldnt go ask in another shop that sells the same thing. maybe not the best comparison/analogy, but just an example )

2. discussing with your future wife your concern. explain to her what you have shared here. see what shes got to say.

then take it from there.

all the best

[Beetlejuice]

wow! you guys got medieval on his ass! listen to the forum hustle, grow a pair and move on. i know you are kunt struck now, but it will pass.

Hey! Can't you spell? It doesn't start with a K. I was thinking about the old Frank Sanartra song; Love and marriage, love and married, go together like a horse and carriage. I don`t remember the word sinsot being in there. Maybe the new version should be; Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a Ho and sinsot.

You know I don`t know why these women don't just put themselves up for auction and done with it? Some while back there was an article in the UK press regarding a young English woman who put up her virginity for auction on some website that I have forgotten the name of. She had medical tests to confirm her virginity and was willing to give it up to anyone for £200000. I think she received 13 offers and the highest bidder was some 62 year old American businessman.

This quickly caught on and now there are lots of HOs putting themselves up for auction on line, virgins and non virgins. My first wife was a virgin when we married in our early 20s, now they`re even putting a price tag on that.

Oh boy, the older I get and hopefully wiser, the more my views about women go over to the negative side. You know what guys; take advice from an old reprobate; Love em and leave em.

Who in they`re right mind would want to give it all up for a rent a wife and who will leave as soon as the lease expires, meaning when the money runs out.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[Ulysses G.]

Love and marriage, love and marriage, go together like a Ho and sinsot.

:lol:

[sarahsbloke]

Who in they`re right mind would want to give it all up for a rent a wife and who will leave as soon as the lease expires, meaning when the money runs out.

Presumably if you are renting, when the rental item gets a bit rundown, you can just move on and rent something newer.

or

Better to pay cash upfront, than pay your house and cash from your pension at the end.

Edited December 13, 2010 by sarahsbloke