Thailand Elite Card Closes Down To The Tunes Of 2.5 Billion Baht

[meelousee]

[Pib]

I want say unbelievable the govt is not offering some compensation/money back upfront like a prorated deal (but I have to remember TIT). That is, you bought the card X years ago, a person's average life expectancy is X years, so here is the prorated refund. But no, when it comes to getting money back from a Thai company and apparently the Thai govt, you have to fight for it. TIT.

I'm guessing also that since there are no class action lawsuits in Thailand that each person who wants their money back will have to sue individually. The court will then have to check to see how many perks were used by that particular individual, and whether or not they received their money's worth. I guess there is some value to that. It means the farangs who bought the card strictly for the visa will probably see a big chunk of their money returned. Meanwhile, those who abused the golf privileges will probably get nothing.

Sounds like years of litigation which can get expensive and frustrating. So, I expect most Elite Card owners won't go that route and the Thai govt knows that. Instead Elite Card owners will send a lot of letters, make a lot of phone calls, maybe have a Thai lawyer do some chest beating, etc...but chest beating short of filing a lawsuit.

Once a Thai company has your money; they got your money and really, really, really hate giving any of it back....but I hope the Elite Card owners do get something back and the govt comes out with some "fair play" details later....then again, since this deals with refunding some money, TIT.

[richard_smith237]

This is not the first time the Bangkok Post has jumped the gun and made huge assumptions regarding the future of The Thai Elite Card. I wonder if this time its true.

IF there are to be any refunds I would hope that they don't subtract used services and just take the hit...

In 2005 1 Million Baht was US$25,000. Today 1 Million Baht is approximately US33,000

If Thai Elite were to subtract usage of B200,000 (for the sake of an example)... that is still worth US$26,000 - For Visa, Golf, Airport Pickup, massage....

Given exchange rates many foreign members may not be negatively effected.

It will be interesting to see if this is yet another Bangkok Post Witch Hunt or wether this actually plays out.

[leoalex]

if them just refund money minus used services and leave 5 years visa - I will happy with it.

That guys who scream here 'less elite', 'welcome to immigration queue', etc - just prove own stupidity, elite it 'name of program and on card' - but no one from TE members have said what them 'elite'.

what about visa - we same as you, go visit immigration office like you, and usually in common queue to extend this elite visa for another 3 monthes. and also waiting in airport immigration queues, but in diplomatic. But you can believe me - last times when I have trip (2 times per year) - same amount of peoples in normal and in immigration queue. this 'special fast track' need to order 5 working days before what hard to do sometimes and not anyone need it.

te members will see what will happen soon, if here will no refund - it just can be group lawsuit or something like it. also i just can imagine fun when elite office will tell famous actor or politican who was gifted with this elite card - your elite gift card from us is not valid anymore.

Edited April 27, 2011 by leoalex

[moe666]

Funny how some people resent other people with money

[leoalex]

i mean same amount of peoples in immigration diplomatic pasport control (where elite members can come thru) as at common passport control queue.

[pauljones]

The Elite Card was simply a way to buy friends in high places. Buy the card and meet some bigshots that can get you out of a jam.

Can't do business here without some high level pals on your side.

[NanaFoods]

I never wait in the long queues and dont have an Elite card.

I just accompany my wife in the Thai queue - a few minutes, done.

[bobmac10]

I know a couple of people who had these....they are both under 50 and have been very successful in life ... it was an easy way for them to live in Thailand....they did not mind spending the million baht...both just looked it as a tax for the style of life they wanted to enjoy...plus they were always fast tracked at immigration and originally had BWM's (now Toyotas)to take them to hotels etc...it did have some advatages to some...the idea was good but was flawed from the start by too much overload on expenses and staff...apparently my friends who had them also knew several expats in Sing who are members and enjoy tripping up to Phuket for the weekend hassle free

Yeah, I thought it had potential too, it's a pity it was not better subscribed, but the timing could not have been worse with the GFC happening at the same time.

I once joined a health club "life" membership which had amazing benefits, but which later collapsed. The whole business plan was based on X.... amount of people signing up to join but it never achieved the numbers and therefore the business model didn't work.

Perhaps in 30 years from now it might work when the international business high rollers recognise Thailand as an acceptable holiday destination.

[sholaisen]

Good post! Bangkok Post has probably reported on what they have been informed regarding the cabinets decision, however the story is a bit more complex then this... soon a new cabinet... this is the same with all "news"... seldom tells the whole story... they choose the facts to report.

As for the refund I was told when signing up that if would be somewhere along the lines of deducting used services as you mention... If it comes to this I do expects some loss, however not 100%. Baker & McKenzie will take care of that one...

This is not the first time the Bangkok Post has jumped the gun and made huge assumptions regarding the future of The Thai Elite Card. I wonder if this time its true.

IF there are to be any refunds I would hope that they don't subtract used services and just take the hit...

In 2005 1 Million Baht was US$25,000. Today 1 Million Baht is approximately US33,000

If Thai Elite were to subtract usage of B200,000 (for the sake of an example)... that is still worth US$26,000 - For Visa, Golf, Airport Pickup, massage....

Given exchange rates many foreign members may not be negatively effected.

It will be interesting to see if this is yet another Bangkok Post Witch Hunt or wether this actually plays out.

Edited April 28, 2011 by sholaisen

[dunkin2012]

I can envision the Thailand Elite refund calculation process... given the way things works around these parts...

OK Mr. Farang.... Let's calculate your refund... You've had the Elite Card for five years, and got one expedited visa... two Thai massages, five airport taxi rides and three rounds of golf... That adds up to... waiting for the calculator to work.... 1.5 million baht...

You owe us 500,000 baht... How would you like to pay?

elites be prepared.................

they will dish out out....a scam.....

[scrabbleking]

that's what we call a big flop .... I remember when they launched it .... I told myself there is nothing in Thailand to attract wealthy and rich people ....

You are an idiot if you don't think billionarie corporate CEO types don't LOVE a country where factory workers will line up for jobs that pay less than US$1/hour, with ZERO benefits, and should you be using some dangerous chemicals, the costs to ensure nobody raise a stink here is less than you pay for a golf lesson back home.

[Payboy]

The Elite Card was simply a way to buy friends in high places. Buy the card and meet some bigshots that can get you out of a jam.

Can't do business here without some high level pals on your side.

Don't really need a card for that, as long as said big shots are aware that you're in the market for their services.

[Crushdepth]

That guys who scream here 'less elite', 'welcome to immigration queue', etc - just prove own stupidity, elite it 'name of program and on card' - but no one from TE members have said what them 'elite'.

Ever heard heard of 'humour', Mastermind?

[letitbe]

Do we really have to go through this nonsense again?

I am a long term critic of the whole rationale behind this "Elite Card" nonsense - to me, a very clear Ponzi Scam from day one - and those who initiated and continued to promote it ........... but surely – enough is enough.

Who in this life has not made a dumb Investment decision now and again?

So some people with money to spare decided that the Elite Card program offered them potentially significant benefits and so invested what was – relative to their financial situation – trivial Funds.

However like many Investment vehicles the reality turned out to be somewhat different to expectations.

So they move on.

To my mind there is far too much a sense of gloating - and jealously - in many Posts on this subject.

Patrick

I have to tell you, this isreally funny stuff! A bunch of rich bloated self-righteous egotists having apissing contest to prove that despite the fact that their "I am more importantthan you" membership has been revoked, they will be fine and, at the end of theday, they are still better than you regardless. Sad really! Really sad! Serves all you card holders right. We are in Thailand;don't you know that is called Karma?

what a load of nonsense 1 million baht is not so much for a hell of a lot of people as someone said many have lost more than that on one small investment and many here have lost many times 1 million to some gold digger If you are unfortunate in life that your personal finances are such

and your say over 50 that a mere 1 million baht makes any real difference then i feel sorry for you. I thought of buying one but in end decided since I hate golf and since i fly first class get fast tracked through immigration it gave me little. However if id bought one and i got 5 years of extra service it would be a bargain compared with what you pay in most parts of the world for extra privilege.

[SGD]

I looked at it when land ownership was mooted. Then it was through some shady company over which you had no control. The it just petered out.

Yet had you got in at the very beginning you would have saved money compared with an annual flight and trip costs back home to get another non imm visa. For anyone over 50, it was pointless.

[Buchholz]

Do we really have to go through this nonsense again?

I am a long term critic of the whole rationale behind this "Elite Card" nonsense - to me, a very clear Ponzi Scam from day one - and those who initiated and continued to promote it ........... but surely – enough is enough.

Who in this life has not made a dumb Investment decision now and again?

So some people with money to spare decided that the Elite Card program offered them potentially significant benefits and so invested what was – relative to their financial situation – trivial Funds.

However like many Investment vehicles the reality turned out to be somewhat different to expectations.

So they move on.

To my mind there is far too much a sense of gloating - and jealously - in many Posts on this subject.

Patrick

I have to tell you, this isreally funny stuff! A bunch of rich bloated self-righteous egotists having apissing contest to prove that despite the fact that their "I am more importantthan you" membership has been revoked, they will be fine and, at the end of theday, they are still better than you regardless. Sad really! Really sad! Serves all you card holders right. We are in Thailand;don't you know that is called Karma?

what a load of nonsense 1 million baht is not so much for a hell of a lot of people as someone said many have lost more than that on one small investment and many here have lost many times 1 million to some gold digger If you are unfortunate in life that your personal finances are such

and your say over 50 that a mere 1 million baht makes any real difference then i feel sorry for you. I thought of buying one but in end decided since I hate golf and since i fly first class get fast tracked through immigration it gave me little. However if id bought one and i got 5 years of extra service it would be a bargain compared with what you pay in most parts of the world for extra privilege.

The "extra privileges" of the Thai Elite Card are unique in the whole world. That was one of its selling points.

If one is "over 50", the visa benefits of the card can be had for 1,900 baht a year with an O visa.

[xbusman]

I for one will be sorely disappointed with the demise of the Elite card. If the property market were to ever rationalize, the rule of law instituted and the politicians ever stopped engaging their mouth before their brain this forum would be over. Thankfully, while we knew the former was destined to go away, the others will be entertainment far after we depart this mortal plane.

[midas]

Do we really have to go through this nonsense again?

I am a long term critic of the whole rationale behind this "Elite Card" nonsense - to me, a very clear Ponzi Scam from day one - and those who initiated and continued to promote it ........... but surely – enough is enough.

Who in this life has not made a dumb Investment decision now and again?

So some people with money to spare decided that the Elite Card program offered them potentially significant benefits and so invested what was – relative to their financial situation – trivial Funds.

However like many Investment vehicles the reality turned out to be somewhat different to expectations.

So they move on.

To my mind there is far too much a sense of gloating - and jealously - in many Posts on this subject.

Patrick

I have to tell you, this isreally funny stuff! A bunch of rich bloated self-righteous egotists having apissing contest to prove that despite the fact that their "I am more importantthan you" membership has been revoked, they will be fine and, at the end of theday, they are still better than you regardless. Sad really! Really sad! Serves all you card holders right. We are in Thailand;don't you know that is called Karma?

what a load of nonsense 1 million baht is not so much for a hell of a lot of people as someone said many have lost more than that on one small investment and many here have lost many times 1 million to some gold digger If you are unfortunate in life that your personal finances are such

and your say over 50 that a mere 1 million baht makes any real difference then i feel sorry for you. I thought of buying one but in end decided since I hate golf and since i fly first class get fast tracked through immigration it gave me little. However if id bought one and i got 5 years of extra service it would be a bargain compared with what you pay in most parts of the world for extra privilege.

The "extra privileges" of the Thai Elite Card are unique in the whole world. That was one of its selling points.

If one is "over 50", the visa benefits of the card can be had for 1,900 baht a year with an O visa.

Are there many examples in Thailand or even worldwide of successful " schemes "

or business models that rely on the subscriber paying a single up front fee

and then hoping they can survive and provide the same standard of services

( i.e. the ones provided at the time the payment is made )

for decades or even years after ? That is why even the very suggestion of such

an idea made me run the other way

How can any business project what its overheads are likely to be if during that period one encounters an inflationary environment ?

I am just surprised that so many who obviously had enough business acumen to have generated wealth

in their lives were not more suspicious of a Ponzi scheme like this that was bound to fail eventually ?

Edited April 28, 2011 by midas

[Buchholz]

I have to tell you, this isreally funny stuff! A bunch of rich bloated self-righteous egotists having apissing contest to prove that despite the fact that their "I am more importantthan you" membership has been revoked, they will be fine and, at the end of theday, they are still better than you regardless. Sad really! Really sad! Serves all you card holders right. We are in Thailand;don't you know that is called Karma?

what a load of nonsense 1 million baht is not so much for a hell of a lot of people as someone said many have lost more than that on one small investment and many here have lost many times 1 million to some gold digger If you are unfortunate in life that your personal finances are such

and your say over 50 that a mere 1 million baht makes any real difference then i feel sorry for you. I thought of buying one but in end decided since I hate golf and since i fly first class get fast tracked through immigration it gave me little. However if id bought one and i got 5 years of extra service it would be a bargain compared with what you pay in most parts of the world for extra privilege.

The "extra privileges" of the Thai Elite Card are unique in the whole world. That was one of its selling points.

If one is "over 50", the visa benefits of the card can be had for 1,900 baht a year with an O visa.

Are there many examples in Thailand or even worldwide of successful " schemes "

or business models that rely on the subscriber paying a single up front fee

and then hoping they can survive and provide the same standard of services

( i.e. the ones provided at the time the payment is made )

for decades or even years after ? That is why even the very suggestion of such

an idea made me run the other way

How can any business project what its overheads are likely to be if during that period one encounters an inflationary environment ?

I am just surprised that so many who obviously had enough business acumen to have generated wealth

in their lives were not more suspicious of a Ponzi scheme like this that was bound to fail eventually ?

It is amazing, but after looking at this thread and reviewing past threads on this issue, it would seem that many of the purported cardholders were fully aware of it being a Ponzi scheme but by having so much disposable personal wealth, felt that it was worthwhile to enjoy it until the inevitable collapse of the scam occurred.

[luudee]

This is really amazing. This should be about How Thai government is

going to handle this mess, but no, it seems to be mostly a envy driven

"i told you so" wise crack thread.

Why do people think that the Elita Card holders didn't assume they will

get screwed sooner or later ? Why do all the not haves think that the

Elita Card holders are stupid ?

Go back to the 50 baht value breakfast hunts, and don't worry about

other peoples financial situations. Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

Cheers,

rudi

[SAffer]

The sad part is, the scheme could have worked if it had offered a few *real* concessions, eg. residency, land ownership etc. If you want 'high value' foreigners to contribute more to the local economy, why not encourage them to stay?

Unfortunately, Thailand wants the $$$ but not the people who bring it.

dam_n right

[doggie888888]

This is really amazing. This should be about How Thai government is

going to handle this mess, but no, it seems to be mostly a envy driven

"i told you so" wise crack thread.

Why do people think that the Elita Card holders didn't assume they will

get screwed sooner or later ? Why do all the not haves think that the

Elita Card holders are stupid ?

Go back to the 50 baht value breakfast hunts, and don't worry about

other peoples financial situations. Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

Cheers,

rudi

Me too!!! I am under 50, and the card was one hassle free way to live here. I never used their spa/golf privileges and I do not consider myself "elite" although I do consider myself lucky enough to be able to afford the convenience. I hope they will retain the visa benefit, well at least till I turn 50 anyway. The money is not as important as the visa in my case. But the entire episode does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

[Arkady]

... what I will find interesting is how the THB 2.5 billion approved by the government to wind-down the company is dispensed ... now that could be a mad rush by the Thai management for a last taste of the graft ... any bets on what is left for compensating foreigners after the company wind-down?

The money was requested by the ministry but not approved by the cabinet.

[Crushdepth]

It's not just for cardholders either, it is also to compensate staff.

[sholaisen]

Any idea how Thai Elite members can keep in contact if shit hits the fan?

I for one enjoy the convenience and found the Elite Card as a way of not having to "cheat the system". I've seen how the visa policy have changed over the years and you might say the card was never 100% sure, but how about all the 30 day'ers if they should get even stricter on this policy... and why shouldn't they?

I don't stay here permanently but usually more than 30 days at the time, never have a return ticket when I arrive, do not work here, not married here, don't have time to apply for visa before arriving each time, in my 30's, don't travel 1st class, so there was several good reasons to become a member... free golf was never one of them... It was never meant as an investment either as many suggest... A one time payment for not having to worry about it, which I can't say they quite lived up to taking the past couple of years into consideration.

They could re-name it "Farang Kee Nok" and I would still want to be a member.

Even doing yearly O visas, for those eligible, there would be quite some cost over 30 years or so... and time is money... Orchard Road every year is too much for me...

sholaisen

This is really amazing. This should be about How Thai government is

going to handle this mess, but no, it seems to be mostly a envy driven

"i told you so" wise crack thread.

Why do people think that the Elita Card holders didn't assume they will

get screwed sooner or later ? Why do all the not haves think that the

Elita Card holders are stupid ?

Go back to the 50 baht value breakfast hunts, and don't worry about

other peoples financial situations. Even if they cancel the Elite Card

and I have to look for other ways to stay here, I got many many years

of painless immigration and no headaches of trying to cheat my way

through the Thai Legal system. I still have some years before I turn

50 and hope they will let us keep the visas instead of the refunds ...

Cheers,

rudi

Me too!!! I am under 50, and the card was one hassle free way to live here. I never used their spa/golf privileges and I do not consider myself "elite" although I do consider myself lucky enough to be able to afford the convenience. I hope they will retain the visa benefit, well at least till I turn 50 anyway. The money is not as important as the visa in my case. But the entire episode does leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

[TAWP]

that's what we call a big flop .... I remember when they launched it .... I told myself there is nothing in Thailand to attract wealthy and rich people ....

You are an idiot if you don't think billionarie corporate CEO types don't LOVE a country where factory workers will line up for jobs that pay less than US$1/hour, with ZERO benefits, and should you be using some dangerous chemicals, the costs to ensure nobody raise a stink here is less than you pay for a golf lesson back home.

What are you thinking we try to manufacture, asbestos toys for children?

Trying to find talented people to good pay and they pay-demands isn't the issues - it is finding qualified people.

[rogerdee123]

Giving residency and landownership rights for 1 million baht would be the same as inviting every criminal to come live in Thailand.

kind of similar to .... hmmmm .... Montenegro

[Macmundi]

They didn't decide to call it a day, but rather 60 days.. Only fools will follow these wanna-be-elite scams.

[Rumpole]

Unfortunately, Thailand wants the $$$ but not the people who bring it.

Word.