ManU In Decline?

[redrus]

I said I didn't want Mourinho, oh what I'd give for him now.....!

redrus

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[P45Mustang]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

The boy Rodgers is restoring Liverpool.

All you have to do is the same?

Simple, or am I missing something?

[redrus]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

[BangrakBob]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

hahaha and there you were reflecting on your own fans arrogance, how the <deleted> do you work that out?

[redrus]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

hahaha and there you were reflecting on your own fans arrogance, how the <deleted> do you work that out?

I am allowed my opinion, fella..., and no arrogance in my thoughts about this at all.

I honestly think that once again, IF you don't win it this year psychologically, it will knock youz for 6 again, and you will have to build again, like we did all those years ago. (Mentally more than anything.)

Its been "we'll win it next year" "its are year next year" for so long now, its been a joke for almost as long..!

redrus

[rijit]

I would still be behind Moyes 100%, even if we'd lost the same amount of games, and points, if the tactics were better, if there was some life, some spark about him, about the team.

Wins against Olympiakos and West Ham do not fill the gap created by a complete lack of passion.

If the Liverpool and City games had been 0-1's, 2-3 battles to the end, we could cope, improvement would be great, we've shown stanch support for a man that, it seems, is not willing to use the brain he has and, I think that the time is now right to make the change, I mean, it can't get any worse........, can it.:-/

I'm still positive about United as a whole, I certainly don't believe that we'll wait 20+ years for another trophy, we just need the right man, Hiddink, Klopp, Guardiola would be nice.... We'll see, but Moyes time is surly up, and for once, Fergie must eat humble pie..!!

redrus

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No chance-Moyes will stick it out and turn it round,no problem

Mmmmm, and this aint a dig ,, all the great and succesful man utd teams ie 68 best aston morgan fergies best played with width ie pacy wingers and flair moyesy doesnt, he's primarily a pragmatist, plays wingers really deep and v tight, his style really aint man utds trad' style, Can a leopard change his spots? well he's got the perfect opportunity, 4 maybe 5 really good wingers and a HUGE transfer budget if needed, does he look like he's going to change? not on the evidense shown so far, will he? tbh I really cant see it, can anyone ? I still reckon they will stand by him till into net season and if results aint better by xmas, he's gone

[SantiSuk]

That was a reasonable comment Rijjit. Why did you stick it on the Man U thread for 12 year olds?

Must have been funny once to have these in decline threads but the joke expired long ago

[carmine]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

Can't really agree with you here Rus regarding Liverpool. It won't break them because they are well aware they are punching above their weight. The expectations would not have gone further than top four qualification and there would have been no thoughts of winning the title this year. If anything this season will give the players and fans belief regardless of where in the top four they finish.

The crucial thing for Liverpool starts in the summer with their owners making significant funds available to buy players and ends with Rodgers choosing the right players. My only concern were i a Liverpool fan are with FSG and i still have yet to be convinced of their genuine intentions for the club.

[rixalex]

That was a reasonable comment Rijjit. Why did you stick it on the Man U thread for 12 year olds?

Must have been funny once to have these in decline threads but the joke expired long ago

Agreed. All the years this thread existed and we weren't in decline, there was something mildly amusing about it... well less so for us, but for you guys... and although i didn't particularly like it, i got it, and took is as part of the banter.

But now we are actually in decline, it's stopped being a joke and simply become a statement of fact. Should either be closed or amalgamated with the United thread. Not fussy which.

More than anything else, just from a practical point of view of having all Man United related comments in one place, it makes sense. Still, i'm aware that the debate over this thread has been rumbling on for years with nothing done and my hunch is, if there is anything guaranteed to keep the thread open for another few years, it is a United supporter asking for it to be closed.

[rixalex]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

Can't really agree with you here Rus regarding Liverpool. It won't break them because they are well aware they are punching above their weight. The expectations would not have gone further than top four qualification and there would have been no thoughts of winning the title this year. If anything this season will give the players and fans belief regardless of where in the top four they finish.

The crucial thing for Liverpool starts in the summer with their owners making significant funds available to buy players and ends with Rodgers choosing the right players. My only concern were i a Liverpool fan are with FSG and i still have yet to be convinced of their genuine intentions for the club.

Agree with carmine. I think win the league or not win the league, Liverpool are in pretty good shape for next season.

[carmine]

That was a reasonable comment Rijjit. Why did you stick it on the Man U thread for 12 year olds?

Must have been funny once to have these in decline threads but the joke expired long ago

Agreed. All the years this thread existed and we weren't in decline, there was something mildly amusing about it... well less so for us, but for you guys... and although i didn't particularly like it, i got it, and took is as part of the banter.

But now we are actually in decline, it's stopped being a joke and simply become a statement of fact. Should either be closed or amalgamated with the United thread. Not fussy which.

More than anything else, just from a practical point of view of having all Man United related comments in one place, it makes sense. Still, i'm aware that the debate over this thread has been rumbling on for years with nothing done and my hunch is, if there is anything guaranteed to keep the thread open for another few years, it is a United supporter asking for it to be closed.

I'm not actually so sure the club are in decline as such. For me a decline takes place over a much longer protracted period of time.

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor. The crucial thing for the club now is to rectify that decision quickly and move on. Get a new manager, the likes of Klopp, Simeone, reinvest in squad, move on and suddenly its just a bad season not a crisis because life was always going to be tough short term after Fergusons departure. New managers goal for the next season top four qualification.

So for me, not decline more short term crisis created by the appointment of a bloke that possesses little or nothing of what is required to do a management job of this magnitude. Seems to me like thats the opinion of most of your players too.

Keep Moyes on and you will go from short term crisis and full on into decline.

[rixalex]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

[carmine]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

He earnt the right to have input into the decision, not to necessarily choose the new manager.

[carmine]

I would still be behind Moyes 100%, even if we'd lost the same amount of games, and points, if the tactics were better, if there was some life, some spark about him, about the team.

Wins against Olympiakos and West Ham do not fill the gap created by a complete lack of passion.

If the Liverpool and City games had been 0-1's, 2-3 battles to the end, we could cope, improvement would be great, we've shown stanch support for a man that, it seems, is not willing to use the brain he has and, I think that the time is now right to make the change, I mean, it can't get any worse........, can it.:-/

I'm still positive about United as a whole, I certainly don't believe that we'll wait 20+ years for another trophy, we just need the right man, Hiddink, Klopp, Guardiola would be nice.... We'll see, but Moyes time is surly up, and for once, Fergie must eat humble pie..!!

redrus

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

No chance-Moyes will stick it out and turn it round,no problem

You are my hero.

[rixalex]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

He earnt the right to have input into the decision, not to necessarily choose the new manager.

So who should have chosen? Who was more qualified to make the decision?

[carmine]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

He earnt the right to have input into the decision, not to necessarily choose the new manager.

So who should have chosen? Who was more qualified to make the decision?

I don't know but what i do know is that the last few months have proven quite categorically that it should not have been sanctioned for Ferguson to choose him on his own.

What on earth did he think he was doing picking David Moyes as Man Utd manager will all the other quality, european experienced managers out there? Was it because he was scottish? The bloke had no european experience and hadn't won anything! No wonder fans are starting to vent anger at Ferguson. Anyone would think he was taking the piss!

[StevieH]

jeez redrus....you have been around the block and seen it all..

What you trynna say, I am but a mere boy...

I think it runs a bit deeper, Rodgers is doing a god job at Liverpool, but it won't last if they don't win it this year. It is make or break for them., again I'm afraid.

Lois Van Gaal has made himself available, he'd be good for a few years, I reckon he'll retire in 3 anyway. Pep after that.

redrus

hahaha and there you were reflecting on your own fans arrogance, how the <deleted> do you work that out?

I am allowed my opinion, fella..., and no arrogance in my thoughts about this at all.

I honestly think that once again, IF you don't win it this year psychologically, it will knock youz for 6 again, and you will have to build again, like we did all those years ago. (Mentally more than anything.)

Its been "we'll win it next year" "its are year next year" for so long now, its been a joke for almost as long..!

redrus

nah no such thing mate. this is a long-term project and this season has seen us jump well ahead of schedule. now need FSG to put their money where their mouth is in the summer and invest what we need to make the next great leap forward.

and we also need to bin off this transfer committee bobbins. trust the manager, get ian ayre away from anything to do with signing players.

[StevieH]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

i agree with you here rix. but would you ask fergie to have a say in who they replace moyes with?

[rixalex]

So who should have chosen? Who was more qualified to make the decision?

I don't know but what i do know is that the last few months have proven quite categorically that it should not have been sanctioned for Ferguson to choose him on his own.

There was no guarantee whoever made the decision that it would be a successful decision, so just because Fergie may have got the decision wrong, doesn't prove that he wasn't the best man to make it. Clearly he was by the fact that when the question is asked, well who should have made the decision then, nobody can answer.

[rixalex]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

i agree with you here rix. but would you ask fergie to have a say in who they replace moyes with?

In a word "no". Not because he has suddenly become an awful judge of what makes a good manager, or because the suits will do any better with the decision, but because whoever comes in, needs to be seen as being independent from Fergie and without any attachments. It will truly be time for a fresh sheet of paper. We are not there yet though...

[carmine]

So who should have chosen? Who was more qualified to make the decision?

I don't know but what i do know is that the last few months have proven quite categorically that it should not have been sanctioned for Ferguson to choose him on his own.

There was no guarantee whoever made the decision that it would be a successful decision, so just because Fergie may have got the decision wrong, doesn't prove that he wasn't the best man to make it. Clearly he was by the fact that when the question is asked, well who should have made the decision then, nobody can answer.

Was David Gill still incumbent CEO last season? My memories not serving me too well this morning.

However, if he was i'll say it now. It should have been a joint decision made by Gill and Ferguson and thence, when Ferguson raised the name of Moyes, Gill who had been proven a very sensible pragmatic CEO, could have immediately jumped in and told him not to be so bloody stupid!

[StevieH]

In United's case, its more a short term fall from grace caused by a really poor choice of manager and it was clearly not a very savvy decision to allow Ferguson to choose his successor.

Right decision or wrong, Fergie earned the right to make the decision, and had his opinion been overlooked, in favour of the opinion of the suits in the boardroom, we'd all be sitting here saying why on earth didn't they listen to Fergie, because whoever the suits might have chosen, this season was always going to be a rough one.

i agree with you here rix. but would you ask fergie to have a say in who they replace moyes with?

In a word "no". Not because he has suddenly become an awful judge of what makes a good manager, or because the suits will do any better with the decision, but because whoever comes in, needs to be seen as being independent from Fergie and without any attachments. It will truly be time for a fresh sheet of paper. We are not there yet though...

this is the thing with fergie though - he made some awful judgment calls on player signings when manager, as all managers do. and then he more often than not saw that they were a terrible, expensive mistake and binned them. but i think he only got the one shot at replacing himself and just made a monumental horse's arse of it.

agree with you that the next one will need to be totally free from association, a clean break. and you are about one defeat to villa or a spanking from bayern away from it imo.

[P45Mustang]

Check out the decline thread for some reality.

Liverpool will be a significant player next season whether they win the league or not this time.

Unless United get a 'top boy' in and spend some money in the summer they will be playing on the outskirts of Munich on Thursday nights if they are lucky.

[P45Mustang]

Ah. Foolish me. This IS the decline thread.

I thought I was on the other one.

[rixalex]

So who should have chosen? Who was more qualified to make the decision?

I don't know but what i do know is that the last few months have proven quite categorically that it should not have been sanctioned for Ferguson to choose him on his own.

There was no guarantee whoever made the decision that it would be a successful decision, so just because Fergie may have got the decision wrong, doesn't prove that he wasn't the best man to make it. Clearly he was by the fact that when the question is asked, well who should have made the decision then, nobody can answer.

Was David Gill still incumbent CEO last season? My memories not serving me too well this morning.

However, if he was i'll say it now. It should have been a joint decision made by Gill and Ferguson and thence, when Ferguson raised the name of Moyes, Gill who had been proven a very sensible pragmatic CEO, could have immediately jumped in and told him not to be so bloody stupid!

It's all very well, with the benefit of hindsight, saying that it was a bloody stupid decision, but at the time Moyes was announced successor, yes, there were some reservations expressed, particularly with how he would fare in Europe, but i don't think it was deemed as "bloody stupid" then. A somewhat surprising choice yes. Stupid no.

And it's not as if the early naysayers are looking so bright either. They were the ones predicting we would get nowhere in Eurpoe, yet, here we are, with all to play for in the quarter finals. That's more than can be said of other teams. Last eight in Europe isn't something to be ashamed of, particularly when you look at the strength of the other teams who made it there.

[StevieH]

it's all relative again though rix. you had about as easy a champions league group as it was possible to get then you drew the weakest of the last sixteen sides.

[P45Mustang]

Ferguson's appointment of Moyes was just like Moyes appointment of Fellaini.

A last minute f*** up.

[rixalex]

it's all relative again though rix. you had about as easy a champions league group as it was possible to get then you drew the weakest of the last sixteen sides.

What was it that Bob was saying recently about only being able to beat the &lt;deleted&gt; in front of you?

Plus, i don't really think there are any easy games in Europe these days. And sometimes you are better off facing up against one of the giants as the players know what to expect and find it easier getting up for the game.

Chelsea supporters just this week saying they really would have preferred to have been taking on a more known quantity than PSG. I understand them and their fears, and don't think they are just saying it.

[P45Mustang]

Bob was spot on then rix.

[P45Mustang]

it's all relative again though rix. you had about as easy a champions league group as it was possible to get then you drew the weakest of the last sixteen sides.

What was it that Bob was saying recently about only being able to beat the &lt;deleted&gt; in front of you?

Plus, i don't really think there are any easy games in Europe these days. And sometimes you are better off facing up against one of the giants as the players know what to expect and find it easier getting up for the game.

Chelsea supporters just this week saying they really would have preferred to have been taking on a more known quantity than PSG. I understand them and their fears, and don't think they are just saying it.

You understand Mourinho.

You are having a larf.