Good Reasons For Thai Elite To Accept Reality

[Crushdepth]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox, having all the answers to thailands social problems as they are so thai in their hearts and care so much for the people of thailand. <deleted> are you so scared of by this goverment ??? You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

And you and the other corruption apologists with them.

[nikster]

What is the writer smoking? "Yes, the old social order is crumbling, giving way to a new society where voices of the poor and marginalised who constitute the majority of the Thai population are heard, most notably through general elections." That is total nonsense! The election had nothing to do with changing the social order or producing a new society dominated by the views of the poor/marginalized people. It is amazing how people can be suckered into believing myths that the elites vomit for them the eat.

Well he's right about the old Elite. The new money elite around Thaksin poses a threat to them. The poor can vote but with no real choices and no free media they're as far from having a voice than ever.

Still: If all choices are bad, change is better than no change.

[rubl]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox, having all the answers to thailands social problems as they are so thai in their hearts and care so much for the people of thailand. <deleted> are you so scared of by this goverment ??? You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

I'm not afraid of this government, the care-taker government of care-taker PM Abhisit. I may wonder about the new government under (most likely) a Pheu Thai MP. Being Thai or not Thai is immaterial in this, it's MY opinion.

BTW you may want to polish up your language a bit, maybe read forum rules #3, #4 and #7 as well.

Edited July 14, 2011 by rubl

[Thaddeus]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox

<snip>

You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

Many people here live and work in Thailand, their positions may be in great jeopardy if some PT promises come to pass, this may appear as being a little selfish, but I doubt that is all it is.

Many people here have wives and children, do you not think that they be more than a little concerned about their kids futures, and how these empty promises could adversely affect their family.

Why is it that whenever some of the pro-red brigade start to interject on all these topics, all I can hear is the sound made by a pack of rabid dogs.

[nikster]

It is referring to the elite who have had kept power for many generations , they are very small in number, but want to take ALL the wealth.

The "Thaksin Elite" you refer to, comprises 70% of the people , judging by the election, they just want a little bit of wealth

Fear not -

The recent demise of the News of the World points to a future where newspapers - and news organizations in general - no longer "make" the news.

Pretty good article on this on the BBC news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14093772

I think this is going to spread everywhere, even Thailand; just look how many Thais are on Facebook these days... the whole concept of "controlling the media" could be a thing of the past.

[tingtongfarang]

It is referring to the elite who have had kept power for many generations , they are very small in number, but want to take ALL the wealth.

The "Thaksin Elite" you refer to, comprises 70% of the people , judging by the election, they just want a little bit of wealth

Fear not -

The recent demise of the News of the World points to a future where newspapers - and news organizations in general - no longer "make" the news.

Pretty good article on this on the BBC news http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14093772

I think this is going to spread everywhere, even Thailand; just look how many Thais are on Facebook these days... the whole concept of "controlling the media" could be a thing of the past.

Were you here when youtube was blocked for i cant remember how long?

[geriatrickid]

I also tottaly agree.

Did any one read this line

"The third and last reason is the most ideal of the three. It is the recognition that the masses are human too, just like us, and each life, each vote, should be treated and valued equally."

And wonder as I did was the elite and upper middle class paid to vote for a certain party.

What do you think corruption does? The awarding of government contracts and supply/service orders can be considered rewarding specific people or groups. Instead of allegations of 200 baht paymnents there are allegations of 2million or 200million baht payments.

[geriatrickid]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox

<snip>

You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

Many people here live and work in Thailand, their positions may be in great jeopardy if some PT promises come to pass, this may appear as being a little selfish, but I doubt that is all it is.

Many people here have wives and children, do you not think that they be more than a little concerned about their kids futures, and how these empty promises could adversely affect their family.

Why is it that whenever some of the pro-red brigade start to interject on all these topics, all I can hear is the sound made by a pack of rabid dogs.

Yes, some foreigners "positions may be in "great jeopardy". A yaba salesman standing on the corner is in great jeopardy too if an honest cop walks by. There are enough low end bars vending poor boys and girls for sex that Thailand won't miss a few of them if they close.

In respect to the MNEs, over the past decade businesses made their own decisions to slice and dice their budgets for hiring expats. If a foreigner is employed in a job that benefits the national economy and has established a niche for his or her services/expertise, I wouldn't be overly concerned. With the exception of UN or international quasi government organizations, the days of the padded packages are gone. Most of the expats I have met in their MNE positions are needed and bring value. They have no need to worry. The foreigners on assignment in Thailand are there for a project. If they choose to settle down, that is their decision. They were hired for a specific project, not lured to Thailand by fanciful promises. If the project had not been profitable at the time, they would not have accepted the project.

If you expect me to worry about some of the foreigners that live life on the fringes of society and that invested in questionable enterprises, I won't. These people made their investment decisions and must take responsibility for those decisions. The teachers that accepted the working conditions and salaries made that decision on their own, no one forced the job on them. If someone had limited assets and a shaky income, it is not Thailand's fault if these people are in a precarious position. Your view is a continuation of the expectation that somehow these people are owed a living. They are not. I sink or swim based upon my own abilities and work ethic. It is time for many foreigners to stop pointing fingers and to accept responsibility for their own situations.

Edited July 14, 2011 by geriatrickid

[rubl]

I also tottaly agree.

Did any one read this line

"The third and last reason is the most ideal of the three. It is the recognition that the masses are human too, just like us, and each life, each vote, should be treated and valued equally."

And wonder as I did was the elite and upper middle class paid to vote for a certain party.

What do you think corruption does? The awarding of government contracts and supply/service orders can be considered rewarding specific people or groups. Instead of allegations of 200 baht paymnents there are allegations of 2million or 200million baht payments.

True, like forcing a state bank to forward a loan of only $121M to a friendly, neighbouring country to help your businesses.

[Heng]

If the poor really want a say in the running of this country, they need to take the red shirt movement back to square one, change the color of their shirt and dump Thaksin.  Then they should form a true political movement, start their own political party, field their own (honest) candidates who can then work for the betterment of the poor and the country in general.

Maybe a bit too ambitious there. I'd like to see a group properly manage a motorcycle taxi queue without someone else organizing it for them first.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox, having all the answers to thailands social problems as they are so thai in their hearts and care so much for the people of thailand. &lt;deleted&gt; are you so scared of by this goverment ??? You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

And that was from Mr. T. Seriously, they hate us and my guess is that they will take even more action to ruin Thailand's already faltering reputation as a retirement haven and tourist destination.

[rixalex]

Also note the succesion of representatives of foreign governments that have been lining up to congrtulate Yingluck and how even in anti-Thaksin media these pictures have been festooning front pages.

Congratulating the winner of an election is normal and well-established protocol, especially in the case of a virtual landslide, and that would be the case no matter who won. Do you think that had Abhisit won by a similar margin, the reaction from foreign governments would have been less enthusiastic?

[rubl]

Also note the succesion of representatives of foreign governments that have been lining up to congrtulate Yingluck and how even in anti-Thaksin media these pictures have been festooning front pages.

Congratulating the winner of an election is normal and well-established protocol, especially in the case of a virtual landslide, and that would be the case no matter who won. Do you think that had Abhisit won by a similar margin, the reaction from foreign governments would have been less enthusiastic?

Must have been the positive influence of some TV posters who said 'get a life, accept the results'

[noahvail]

What is the writer smoking? "Yes, the old social order is crumbling, giving way to a new society where voices of the poor and marginalised who constitute the majority of the Thai population are heard, most notably through general elections." That is total nonsense! The election had nothing to do with changing the social order or producing a new society dominated by the views of the poor/marginalized people. It is amazing how people can be suckered into believing myths that the elites vomit for them the eat.

Well he's right about the old Elite. The new money elite around Thaksin poses a threat to them. The poor can vote but with no real choices and no free media they're as far from having a voice than ever.

Still: If all choices are bad, change is better than no change.

Not if the "change" is simply a return to a former choice, which didn't turn out all that well for Thailand. (Yes, expecting flames.)

[slapout]

The old school elites prefer the split between the haves and have nots to be about 90 (for the haves) to 10 (for the unwashed). The newbies want it to be a much more palatable (to the masses) 87-13. Hardly a revolution in process.

Probably the most accurate summery of the monetary thinking of both groups. If history repeats itself in this struggle, both the old families and the new blood will get most of what they are after. Doubt that either side will ever be truly accepting of the other, even if forced to coexist.

[musiclover]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox, having all the answers to thailands social problems as they are so thai in their hearts and care so much for the people of thailand. &lt;deleted&gt; are you so scared of by this goverment ??? You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

I think you are 100% right. Is it possible that there are HISO FALLANGS

Of course you are right! There are posters here with literally thousands of posts,and one has too wonder what sort of a life they lead here with so much time spent in front of their computers,most of it blindly and often irrationally Thaksin! The HISO Falangs want to rule the roost here too!

[tragickingdom]

The 20 /80 rule is not valid in Thailand, it is probably closer to 10/90 or the tip 10% owning 90% of the countries wealth.

By not endorsing Yingluck, the EC plays with fire. The kind of fire that made Central World and the Southern Insurgency a walk in the park.

[Heng]

The 20 /80 rule is not valid in Thailand, it is probably closer to 10/90 or the tip 10% owning 90% of the countries wealth.

By not endorsing Yingluck, the EC plays with fire. The kind of fire that made Central World and the Southern Insurgency a walk in the park.

It might get there eventually, but I think there would need to be a little more to it than that. It'd have to be coupled with some kind of rice famine, mass shortage of alcohol, and ending of the state lottery all at the same time. Revos and rebellions just don't work so well when bellies are full of food and booze and there's still so much gambling fun to be had. Yeah, it sucks that one can't have all the toys that some folks have, but it's hard to get people (no matter how much you pay them) to die for that.

[rubl]

The 20 /80 rule is not valid in Thailand, it is probably closer to 10/90 or the tip 10% owning 90% of the countries wealth.

By not endorsing Yingluck, the EC plays with fire. The kind of fire that made Central World and the Southern Insurgency a walk in the park.

Thanks for the warning, mind you k. Nathawut just said he spoke with other UDD leaders and they will refrain from further protest at the EC office. May be you didn't read your mail yet, or aren't you on the mailinglist ?

[Thaddeus]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox

<snip>

You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

Many people here live and work in Thailand, their positions may be in great jeopardy if some PT promises come to pass, this may appear as being a little selfish, but I doubt that is all it is.

Many people here have wives and children, do you not think that they be more than a little concerned about their kids futures, and how these empty promises could adversely affect their family.

Why is it that whenever some of the pro-red brigade start to interject on all these topics, all I can hear is the sound made by a pack of rabid dogs.

Yes, some foreigners "positions may be in "great jeopardy". A yaba salesman standing on the corner is in great jeopardy too if an honest cop walks by. There are enough low end bars vending poor boys and girls for sex that Thailand won't miss a few of them if they close.

In respect to the MNEs, over the past decade businesses made their own decisions to slice and dice their budgets for hiring expats. If a foreigner is employed in a job that benefits the national economy and has established a niche for his or her services/expertise, I wouldn't be overly concerned. With the exception of UN or international quasi government organizations, the days of the padded packages are gone. Most of the expats I have met in their MNE positions are needed and bring value. They have no need to worry. The foreigners on assignment in Thailand are there for a project. If they choose to settle down, that is their decision. They were hired for a specific project, not lured to Thailand by fanciful promises. If the project had not been profitable at the time, they would not have accepted the project.

If you expect me to worry about some of the foreigners that live life on the fringes of society and that invested in questionable enterprises, I won't. These people made their investment decisions and must take responsibility for those decisions. The teachers that accepted the working conditions and salaries made that decision on their own, no one forced the job on them. If someone had limited assets and a shaky income, it is not Thailand's fault if these people are in a precarious position. Your view is a continuation of the expectation that somehow these people are owed a living. They are not. I sink or swim based upon my own abilities and work ethic. It is time for many foreigners to stop pointing fingers and to accept responsibility for their own situations.

The one trick pony trots out the same blurb again.

Please tell me where I mentioned anything about westerners of questionable morals.

And I noticed that you also managed to avoid my second paragraph with gay abandon, can I assume that you do not have any family here?

[lungmi]

And once again The Thai Visa Elite have spoken on their forum soapbox, having all the answers to thailands social problems as they are so thai in their hearts and care so much for the people of thailand. &lt;deleted&gt; are you so scared of by this goverment ??? You are not thai !!! None of you will ever know the problems of the thai people living in your gilded cages, living fat on your retirement money constantly coming on her spouting your shit about thaksin and how all of thailands problems are all his fault, you sound just like the people who want to keep things just as they are. As much as I hate the saying go home thailand will be much better off when you are long gone.

Even many Thai people never will undestand the problems of Thai people. Yes, I'm not Thai but I'm not stupid in your way, my wife and her family, my comrades in my village gave me a good teaching about Thai people. I'm Thai in my heart and care much for the people of Thailand

[xenaz]

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Almost two weeks on, many in the educated elite and the upper middle class who oppose and abhor Thaksin Shinawatra and his younger sister Yingluck and the red shirts might still be in shock at the landslide electoral victory of the Pheu Thai Party on July 3.

Landslide Not! About 75% of entitled voters cast ballots with PTP securing only 265 of 500 seats, a mere 53% of parliament with many seats won by very slim margins. 53% of 75% that voted give PTP a measly 39% consent. A win, but a comically low number in regards to media and PTP claims of sweeps and landslide support from majority of Thailand. Reality is a low 39% have chose, so be it has unquestionably upset the other 64% that did not support PTP.

[whybother]

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Almost two weeks on, many in the educated elite and the upper middle class who oppose and abhor Thaksin Shinawatra and his younger sister Yingluck and the red shirts might still be in shock at the landslide electoral victory of the Pheu Thai Party on July 3.

Landslide Not! About 75% of entitled voters cast ballots with PTP securing only 265 of 500 seats, a mere 53% of parliament with many seats won by very slim margins. 53% of 75% that voted give PTP a measly 39% consent. A win, but a comically low number in regards to media and PTP claims of sweeps and landslide support from majority of Thailand. Reality is a low 39% have chose, so be it has unquestionably upset the other 64% that did not support PTP.

Actually,, you can use the simple numbers of people who voted: 48% of the people voted for PTP. Not really a landslide. Not even a majority.

Sure, it was more than any other party. Fine, they get to form government with their majority of seats.

The people voted, and the PTP scraped in. But, they ARE in.

[Crushdepth]

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Almost two weeks on, many in the educated elite and the upper middle class who oppose and abhor Thaksin Shinawatra and his younger sister Yingluck and the red shirts might still be in shock at the landslide electoral victory of the Pheu Thai Party on July 3.

Landslide Not! About 75% of entitled voters cast ballots with PTP securing only 265 of 500 seats, a mere 53% of parliament with many seats won by very slim margins. 53% of 75% that voted give PTP a measly 39% consent. A win, but a comically low number in regards to media and PTP claims of sweeps and landslide support from majority of Thailand. Reality is a low 39% have chose, so be it has unquestionably upset the other 64% that did not support PTP.

Actually,, you can use the simple numbers of people who voted: 48% of the people voted for PTP. Not really a landslide. Not even a majority.

Sure, it was more than any other party. Fine, they get to form government with their majority of seats.

The people voted, and the PTP scraped in. But, they ARE in.

Yep they got in. But they ignore the views of that other 52% of people at their peril. Edit: Actually, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of ignoring the 48% that voted for them too.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Crushdepth

[whybother]

Yep they got in. But they ignore the views of that other 52% of people at their peril.

It appears that they're ignoring the views of their own voters.

[animatic]

Let's be honest the elite would like Thailand to go back 100 years and keep the poor and uneducated in their place,at the bottom of the of the pile,where they think they they belong.Education is a wonderfull thing,some thing the elite did not want the poor to have,yes you will have some that follow like sheep, they will be the ones with not much education,but the younger ones are having the education and they will be the ones that will change Thailand.

Which elite are you referring to? The Democrat Elite or the Thaksin Elite? Maybe both?

It is referring to the elite who have had kept power for many generations , they are very small in number, but want to take ALL the wealth.

The "Thaksin Elite" you refer to, comprises 70% of the people , judging by the election, they just want a little bit of wealth

The Thaksin Elite to which I refer consists solely of Thaksin + his cronies. Do you understand my question now?

Apparently not.

And 70% is not an elite.

The Shinawatra clan is an elite group if ever there was one.

[sbk]

Lets just have a short reminder of forum rules before this discussion gets any more heated or skirts anymore lines:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

2) Not to express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban.

3) Not to post in a manner that is vulgar, obscene or profane .

4) Not to flame fellow members.

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

I think that covers it so far.

[animatic]

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Almost two weeks on, many in the educated elite and the upper middle class who oppose and abhor Thaksin Shinawatra and his younger sister Yingluck and the red shirts might still be in shock at the landslide electoral victory of the Pheu Thai Party on July 3.

Landslide Not! About 75% of entitled voters cast ballots with PTP securing only 265 of 500 seats, a mere 53% of parliament with many seats won by very slim margins. 53% of 75% that voted give PTP a measly 39% consent. A win, but a comically low number in regards to media and PTP claims of sweeps and landslide support from majority of Thailand. Reality is a low 39% have chose, so be it has unquestionably upset the other 64% that did not support PTP.

Actually,, you can use the simple numbers of people who voted: 48% of the people voted for PTP. Not really a landslide. Not even a majority.

Sure, it was more than any other party. Fine, they get to form government with their majority of seats.

The people voted, and the PTP scraped in. But, they ARE in.

Yep they got in. But they ignore the views of that other 52% of people at their peril. Edit: Actually, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of ignoring the 48% that voted for them too.

Yes the main point of this.

But they ignore the views of that other 52% of people at their peril.

If they ignore everyone and do as they please, the PR budget will have to grow exponentially.

[yoshiwara]

This has nothing to do with the poor.  It's all about new money vs old money.  The PT could care less about the poor, other than getting them sufficiently worked up to protest and vote for the PT.

If the poor really want a say in the running of this country, they need to take the red shirt movement back to square one, change the color of their shirt and dump Thaksin.  Then they should form a true political movement, start their own political party, field their own (honest) candidates who can then work for the betterment of the poor and the country in general.

Then and only then, will the needs of the poor be looked after. 

Re old money Vs new money a much better understanding than the ridiculous idea of poor Vs elite pushed out by Thaksin's cheerleaders. The interesting question is whether a split in the reds could form anything resembling a socialist party. The answer is an emphatic No. Why? Because there is no sign of any significant representation of the Thai working class in the organisation or leadership of either the reds or the PTP. Any suggestions of class war language within the reds is purely for show and not in policy form other than vague promises. Thaksn's movement essentially represents alternative bourgeois (ruling class) interests. Other than the bankrupt Thai Communist Party and a few liquidationist left-wing splinters and non-party academics along for the ride, Thaksin has no fear of a left-wing surge. Only some red leaders worried about being paid off. Back to square one? Not a chance.

[jayboy]

With due attribution to G.K Chesterton.The Thai elite might wish to reflect.

The Secret People

Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget,

For we are the people of Thailand, that never has spoken yet.

There is many a fat farmer that drinks less cheerfully,

There is many a free Khmer peasant who is richer and sadder than we.

There are no folk in the whole world so helpless or so wise.

There is hunger in our bellies, there is laughter in our eyes;

You laugh at us and love us, both mugs and eyes are wet:

Only you do not know us. For we have not spoken yet.

They have given us into the hands of the new unhappy lords,

Lords without anger and honour, who dare not carry their swords.

They fight by shuffling papers; they have bright dead alien eyes;

They look at our labour and laughter as a tired man looks at flies.

And the load of their loveless pity is worse than the ancient wrongs,

Their doors are shut in the evenings; and they know no songs.

We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet,

Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.

It may be we shall rise the last as Frenchmen rose the first,

Our wrath come after Russia's wrath and our wrath be the worst.

It may be we are meant to mark with our riot and our rest

God's scorn for all men governing. It may be lao kow is best.

But we are the people of Thailand; and we have not spoken yet.

Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.