Phuket Expat Frenchman Stands To Lose B100Mn Home In National Park Land Raid

[webfact]

Phuket expat Frenchman stands to lose B100mn home in national park land raid

Phuket Gazette

Officers found that the large, two-storey house, complete with its own swimming pool and tennis court, offers a panoramic view of the ocean from its seven rai of land. Photo: Kritsada Mueanhawong

Sermyos Somman, director of the Chiang Mai office of the Royal Forest Department, led the raid on the B100mn home. Photo: Kritsada Mueanhawong

PHUKET: -- A French businessman will have to suffer his 100-million-baht luxury villa in Phuket being demolished if the land it is on is ruled to be encroaching on national park land.

The new chief of Sirinath National Park, Cheewapap Cheewatham, filed a complaint with police after a surprise raid on the property on Sunday.

The raid was led by Sermyos Somman, director of the Chiang Mai office of the Royal Forest Department. Mr Sermyos explained that he first noticed the luxury villa when he came to Phuket to inspect land documents related to the investigation of Trisara resort.

Suspecting that the home, sitting atop a small hill, may be encroaching on the neighboring national park, Mr Sermyos lead a small team of officers to the house and asked the Thai staff present for permission to search the premises.

The officers found that the large, two-storey house, complete with its own swimming pool and tennis court, offers a panoramic view of the ocean from its seven rai of land.

“The Thai staff informed me that the house belongs to a French businessman. He is currently away on a business trip to Hong Kong,” said Mr Sermyos.

“As we were unable to ask the owner to provide the land title for the property, we asked the Land Office instead, who informed us that the current registered owner is a Mr Bernard Gautier,” explained Mr Sermyos.

“He bought the property for 100 million baht. However, as Mr Bernard is not the original builder of the house, which violates zoning laws by being on park land, Mr Bernard is not liable for prosecution,” he said.

“However, his home may be pulled down if the court rules that the house was built illegally [on state land],” Mr Sermyos warned.

“The original application to build the luxury estate was submitted in 1984, but Sirinath was established as a national park in 1981, three years before the application was granted. If this land is found to be on national park land, we will demolish the building,” he added.

Soonthorn Watcharakuldilok, adviser to the Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Plant Conservation (DNP) director-general, told the Phuket Gazette that the DNP had so far filed complaints to Tah Chat Chai Police against the owners of three of the resorts raided on August 15.

The most recent complaint, received by Lt Col Rassada Kluemwong, was filed Monday by Mr Cheewapap accompanied by National Park Division Director Itthisak Thaeothiang.

The complaint was lodged against the owner of a billion-baht resort built on nine rai of land, he explained.

It was not reported, however, exactly how much of that nine rai is believed to be encroaching on park land.

“So far, we have filed complaints against the owners of four properties [including Mr Gautier]. We will investigate later which government officials issued the land title documents for these properties. Once we know, we will file police reports against everyone involved in this,” said Mr Cheewapap.

“We are still investigating the seven other plots of land [raided on August 15], but we need to be very careful.

“The current owners of the land have presented documents to us that they claim to be legally issued by the Land Office. Even though they have the documents to prove ownership, I will have to check and confirm that those documents are all valid,” Mr Cheewapap said.

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...raid-16783.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-08-29

[davejones]

Ridiculous. They should have either sorted this out in 1984, or if it's found that the authorities illegally allowed this to be built, then the corrupt officials should be jailed. If the paperwork is in order then it's not the builder or owner that should suffer. Same is happening in Spain. The only people that suffer seem to be the owners and not the corrupt officials.

[stevenl]

Ridiculous. They should have either sorted this out in 1984, or if it's found that the authorities illegally allowed this to be built, then the corrupt officials should be jailed. If the paperwork is in order then it's not the builder or owner that should suffer. Same is happening in Spain. The only people that suffer seem to be the owners and not the corrupt officials.

If you had followed this a bit, you'd know that they are also going after the corrupt officials. What's going to come of it remains to be seen.

[alstaxi]

Ridiculous. They should have either sorted this out in 1984, or if it's found that the authorities illegally allowed this to be built, then the corrupt officials should be jailed. If the paperwork is in order then it's not the builder or owner that should suffer. Same is happening in Spain. The only people that suffer seem to be the owners and not the corrupt officials.

If you had followed this a bit, you'd know that they are also going after the corrupt officials. What's going to come of it remains to be seen.

The corrupt officials are shaking in their boots , they will be jailed along side the jet ski /tuk tuk/ fugitive pm/ etc. etc etc.

[uptheos]

Ridiculous. They should have either sorted this out in 1984, or if it's found that the authorities illegally allowed this to be built, then the corrupt officials should be jailed. If the paperwork is in order then it's not the builder or owner that should suffer. Same is happening in Spain. The only people that suffer seem to be the owners and not the corrupt officials.

If you had followed this a bit, you'd know that they are also going after the corrupt officials. What's going to come of it remains to be seen.

The corrupt officials are shaking in their boots , they will be jailed along side the jet ski /tuk tuk/ fugitive pm/ etc. etc etc.

We will see.

[Cobalt60]

I expect they will compensate the French guy at the going market rate, being as how its not his fault.

[siampreggers]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

[Soupdragon]

Ridiculous. They should have either sorted this out in 1984, or if it's found that the authorities illegally allowed this to be built, then the corrupt officials should be jailed. If the paperwork is in order then it's not the builder or owner that should suffer. Same is happening in Spain. The only people that suffer seem to be the owners and not the corrupt officials.

If you had followed this a bit, you'd know that they are also going after the corrupt officials. What's going to come of it remains to be seen.

You mean like the 13 officials said to be involved with the issuance of illegal land deeds for the land near Freedom Beach. That case seems to have gone quiet of late.

[KhunMoo]

I expect they will compensate the French guy at the going market rate, being as how its not his fault.

I think he should just consider him self lucky, not being made the scapegoat "loooook wat baad farang do to our beuatifuyl Thai nature"

And jailed for 5 years or something - but i do agree, that the scumbag Farang "real-estate-agent" that properly sold him the property, an knew about it and made his decent little 8-10% of the sales price....should be hanged from the nearest electric pole.

[LivinginKata]

I expect they will compensate the French guy at the going market rate, being as how its not his fault.

I doubt that very much. Tough luck....

[KhunMoo]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

I wouldn't say "don't invest" many - among myself are benefiting, from low salary's, and BOI's recent change in willingness to accept applications. Especially within IT.

Workpermits come within weeks, tax freedom, etc - Bangkok is a good place to do business atm IMHO.

Buy buying my own house here....never. Not even through loopholes in the BOI setup.

It's so easy and cheap to rent here - that buying your own house/condo here is idiotic.

[pagallim]

A lot of premature comments being made on this thread, but what really surprises me is the ambiguity of the statements in the press report. These include:

“As we were unable to ask the owner to provide the land title for the property, we asked the Land Office instead, who informed us that the current registered owner is a Mr Bernard Gautier,” explained Mr Sermyos.

How can he 'own' this land? From a previous report, he's a 30 year leaseholder, so the Land Office must have a record of whom the actual owner is (i.e. whom he's leased it from).

“He bought the property for 100 million baht. However, as Mr Bernard is not the original builder of the house, which violates zoning laws by being on park land, Mr Bernard is not liable for prosecution,” he said.

“However, his home may be pulled down if the court rules that the house was built illegally [on state land],” Mr Sermyos warned.

So which is it?

I'd be really surprised if this guy, having spent 100 million baht, and seemingly does business in the region, doesn't have more than a passing acquaintance of Thai property laws.

The inspection has also been stage managed (naturally) to get maximum publicity (like several others recently - remember the island of Phuket Town that was a front for a casino?), such as having press photographers along.

[bino]

“As we were unable to ask the owner to provide the land title for the property, we asked the Land Office instead, who informed us that the current registered owner is a Mr Bernard Gautier,” explained Mr Sermyos.

Something dodgy obviously happened in the Land Office if they accepted and registered a foreign individual as the owner of a Thai property.

Whether Mr. Bernard knows it or not, or if he was the one who paid for this "special exemption" to the laws of Thailand remains to be seen.

“He bought the property for 100 million baht. However, as Mr Bernard is not the original builder of the house, which violates zoning laws by being on park land, Mr Bernard is not liable for prosecution,” he said.

If he did bend the rules, at least he won't go to jail, but will learn the 100 MTHB lesson.

[steelepulse]

100 million baht seems like a deal for 7 rai properly chanote titled land on the west coast fronting the ocean. Maybe that's why it was so cheap in that the title was dodgy. Do we know when said French national "bought" the land on his 30 year lease. It definitely wasn't in 1984. Bad luck I'm afraid for this guy. I hope his property insurance covers buying on park land unknowingly .

[davejones]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

But there's money to be made. Some Europeans countries are just as bad when it comes to demolishing property e.g. Spain. You have to invest somewhere and there are still plenty of good investments in Thailand.

[davejones]

It's so easy and cheap to rent here - that buying your own house/condo here is idiotic.

It's not at all idiotic to buy a condo here. If you are here long-term it makes sense, as you are able to renovate to suit your own style. I rent at the moment, but there are always things about rental properties that I would like to change but can't. I will buy here one day. I don't see what's idiotic about it. What is idiotic is claiming that buying a house/condo is idiotic. It may not suit everyone, but it does suit some.

[davejones]

“As we were unable to ask the owner to provide the land title for the property, we asked the Land Office instead, who informed us that the current registered owner is a Mr Bernard Gautier,” explained Mr Sermyos.

Something dodgy obviously happened in the Land Office if they accepted and registered a foreign individual as the owner of a Thai property.

Whether Mr. Bernard knows it or not, or if he was the one who paid for this "special exemption" to the laws of Thailand remains to be seen.

“He bought the property for 100 million baht. However, as Mr Bernard is not the original builder of the house, which violates zoning laws by being on park land, Mr Bernard is not liable for prosecution,” he said.

If he did bend the rules, at least he won't go to jail, but will learn the 100 MTHB lesson.

Foreigners are allowed to buy Thai land. This guy may also have become a Thai citizen if he's been here so long.

[BabyJebus]

I expect they will compensate the French guy at the going market rate, being as how its not his fault.

I think he should just consider him self lucky, not being made the scapegoat "loooook wat baad farang do to our beuatifuyl Thai nature"

And jailed for 5 years or something - but i do agree, that the scumbag Farang "real-estate-agent" that properly sold him the property, an knew about it and made his decent little 8-10% of the sales price....should be hanged from the nearest electric pole.

If thats his house and it is right next to Pak Nam seafood in phuket town. I can easily say that the land around it looks better and is cleaner than most close to the road thai national park lands.

Everytime i drive by i always enjoy looking at that side of the road even though the other side has a sea view(a bit hidden by ugly govt low housing towers)

If im wrong, there's a house that looks EXACTLY the same right next to paknam

Edited August 29, 2012 by BabyJebus

[LivinginKata]

Foreigners are allowed to buy Thai land. This guy may also have become a Thai citizen if he's been here so long.

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

[KeyserSoze01]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

Expensive lesson for the Frenchman. To the tune of 2.5 million euro. I'm sure he thought and was advised that the land purchase was perfectly legal.

[davejones]

Foreigners are allowed to buy Thai land. This guy may also have become a Thai citizen if he's been here so long.

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

In the above article there is lots of missing info, so it's not possible to say whether he holds the land legally or not. For example,, it says he bought the house, but what exactly does this mean? Perhaps he just bought a 30-year lease. Some info has probably been lost in translation. No mention is made of the house being held illegally. I'm sure this would have been mention if that was the case. We need to know the facts before we can properly comment. It isn't even clear that the house was built illegally. Someone only suspects it might be at the moment. I wonder if anyone has any proper plans of the national park, with the exact boundary. I read a while ago about how there is no proper record of the border between Thailand and some other countries because the authorities in Thailand haven't kept the proper records. If they don't know where the border of their country is, do they know where the border of this park is?

[bobobo]

Looks like a show..photos of the inspection etc..

[LivinginKata]

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

<snip>

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

Really ??? I don't think so ....

[davejones]

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

<snip>

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

Really ??? I don't think so ....

Yes really. I'm sure other more senior posters on here can confirm. You have to invest quite a substantial amount though.

[Shot]

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

I think 0 rai

[NamKangMan]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

You broke rule number one.

Never mention the words "invest" and "Thailand" in the same sentence. :) :)

[davejones]

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

<snip>

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

Really ??? I don't think so ....

Have a read of this thread... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/395552-foreigners-can-own-one-rai-of-land-in-thailand/

I'm not sure, but aren't you allowed to buy land if you become a Thai citizen? I would have thought that was another route to buying land.

Foreigners can definitely own land under some circumstances, but it's not available to everyone. So it's certainly not right to make a blanket statement that foreigners can't own land in Thailand.

[davejones]

Simply don't buy or invest in Thailand.

It's a simple rule.

You broke rule number one.

Never mention the words "invest" and "Thailand" in the same sentence.

This is usually the rule of people who can't make money. Because they can't, they assume no-one else can either. It's not just here either, you hear the same silly quotes from people all over the world about how things can't be done, when in fact many people are actually doing the things that they claim can't be done.

There are even people on this forum who have explained how they make money here. So people are actually making money, yet some still claim it's not possible.

Edited August 29, 2012 by davejones

[KarenBravo]

If I remember rightly, If you invested 40 million baht in government bonds, you could then by one rai of land in your own name.

Trouble was, was that parliament never ratified it.

[taninthai]

I would like to know how a foreigner can buy Thai land in own name ?

<snip>

Invest enough money in Thailand and you're allowed to buy a small piece of land to build a house on - one rai I think.

Really ??? I don't think so ....

I believe this is correct if you invest 40 million baht it all has to be approved by the government obviously and you can't just invest it in any company

If I remember rightly when I was reading up on it the 1 rai you are allied to buy has to be in or around Bangkok suburbs