Does Being Called Farang Bother You?

[cooked]

when i came to Thailand the first time (39 years ago) i was a Farang. since then i have visited Thailand numerous times and was always a Farang. since nearly 8 years i live permanently in Thailand as a Farang. and whatever time i have left to live in Thailand i will always be a Farang.

i am proud to be a Farang, insist on being a Farang and would consider it an insult if somebody insinuated i have mentally and physically resigned and adapted/integrated into a society, which i respect from a distance, but which is and will always be strange to me.

I'd rather to just be considered a human being or if a more defined label is needed, a kind hearted and tolerant person. Not really sure why all these other labels are needed in today's world of integration.

To label objects such as food as farang food, thai food, german food seems to be descriptive in nature but why all this labeling of humans? Sounds like terms used to keep us from considering ourselves of one race.. the human race.

There was a time when the police in the UK weren't allowed to say that they were looking for a black person if that was the case. Humans are labelled (they also have names) to distinguish them from one another. If there is one person of foreign extraction in a village, he will be the Farang, and hopefully proud of it. He will hopefully also be proud of setting an example of honesty and openness, which unfortunately, very often, is not the case.

[Jayman]

when i came to Thailand the first time (39 years ago) i was a Farang. since then i have visited Thailand numerous times and was always a Farang. since nearly 8 years i live permanently in Thailand as a Farang. and whatever time i have left to live in Thailand i will always be a Farang.

i am proud to be a Farang, insist on being a Farang and would consider it an insult if somebody insinuated i have mentally and physically resigned and adapted/integrated into a society, which i respect from a distance, but which is and will always be strange to me.

I'd rather to just be considered a human being or if a more defined label is needed, a kind hearted and tolerant person. Not really sure why all these other labels are needed in today's world of integration.

To label objects such as food as farang food, thai food, german food seems to be descriptive in nature but why all this labeling of humans? Sounds like terms used to keep us from considering ourselves of one race.. the human race.

There was a time when the police in the UK weren't allowed to say that they were looking for a black person if that was the case. Humans are labelled (they also have names) to distinguish them from one another. If there is one person of foreign extraction in a village, he will be the Farang, and hopefully proud of it. He will hopefully also be proud of setting an example of honesty and openness, which unfortunately, very often, is not the case.

I'm all for using descriptions when needed. The one thing that bothers me about the Thai language is it's lack of descriptions. Thais often speak to each other without using proper nouns that would help both parties to be on the same page in the conversation. Words like "here", "there", "anything", are generally not descriptive enough to make a clear point. The word for water is a perfect example. Even when more descriptive words can be used they often times just use the word "naam" to describe any non-oily liquid. The use of the language is full of generalizations and to me the overuse of the word "farang" is another clear example of this.

as for if Thais mean any disrespect when using the term "Farang" I think this must be looked at in the context of it's use. For all of you that asked your wive's if the term "farang" is derogatory, go back and ask them how they feel being referred to as a "mia farang".

[DrTuner]

One could always try to add it to this rather impressive list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

[cooked]

Deary deary me. Mia Farang is definitely ok with my wife. Mia Chow or Mia Chow Farang is not so nice.

I can't walk down the street with my wife without being asked if she or I can't find them a Farang, they want to be a Mia Farang. Sure I say, just learn English first, end of conversation.

This seems to have something to do with the fact that some people have never lived in a Buffalo village here. Everyone here knows everything about everyone, if you are of Khmer origin, they say so, Lao idem, Farang idem. That's it.

[Jayman]

Deary deary me. Mia Farang is definitely ok with my wife. Mia Chow or Mia Chow Farang is not so nice.

If someone knows your wife's name and instead refers to her as "mia farang" I doubt very much she would like that.

It's all about the context of how it's used just like the term "farang". There are many ways in which "mai farang" is used in a derogatory manner.

[bunnaag]

30 years ago I was called hey farang.A few years later I was called hey You.Now I am respectfully called Farung Lung.

[rgs2001uk]

but I finally realized that, however long I tried, I would never really become a Thai, and that I would be a Farang forever.

One HUGE reason for this is, that we accept it and even call ourselves that.

If you are a tourist, or you never have any intention to make deep bonds with a thai person, sure, we can laugh it off.

But if anyone want to be a part of a thai family, as is the case for many of us who have a thai girlfriend or a thai wife, we sure should not use the word farang, it will only put a distance between you and the rest of the family, and it will make it easier for some evil minded thais to rip us off, or view us as ATM machines...

"we sure should not use the word farang, it will only put a distance between you and the rest of the family"

Cheers thanks for this priceless insight into Thailand.

In future will start referring to myself as farang and the mrs as mia farang, how much distance between the rest of the family do you think we can hope for, and how quickly will it happen?

Wil sleep easy in my bed tonight, been trying for ages to figure out a way to get rid of the wifes worthless family, mrs, sorry, mia farang wasnt having much luck either.

[DrTuner]

For some it might be preferable to be called Farang then hear your name being totally raped, like someone called Schyloziwski or some such. I've sometimes wondered if a Farang could get a nickname like Thais. I wouldn't mind being called "Beer", although they'd finalize the verdict of me being totally nuts, people don't usually repeat their own names all day long.

[canuckamuck]

For some it might be preferable to be called Farang then hear your name being totally raped, like someone called Schyloziwski or some such. I've sometimes wondered if a Farang could get a nickname like Thais. I wouldn't mind being called "Beer", although they'd finalize the verdict of me being totally nuts, people don't usually repeat their own names all day long.

That is an excellent Idea, I think I will get them to call me pumpkin, in Thai of course.

[chiangmaikelly]

For some it might be preferable to be called Farang then hear your name being totally raped, like someone called Schyloziwski or some such. I've sometimes wondered if a Farang could get a nickname like Thais. I wouldn't mind being called "Beer", although they'd finalize the verdict of me being totally nuts, people don't usually repeat their own names all day long.

That is an excellent Idea, I think I will get them to call me pumpkin, in Thai of course.

For some it might be preferable to be called Farang then hear your name being totally raped, like someone called Schyloziwski or some such. I've sometimes wondered if a Farang could get a nickname like Thais. I wouldn't mind being called "Beer", although they'd finalize the verdict of me being totally nuts, people don't usually repeat their own names all day long.

That is an excellent Idea, I think I will get them to call me pumpkin, in Thai of course.

fuc_ktong?

[canuckamuck]

Yeah, you got it, don't mess with fuktong

[barky]

What a load of politically correct codswallop is being expressed here. People upset by the use of this word probably used words like 'wop' and '<deleted>' in their youth as an insult. As long as you live here you will be a Farang, the word is not an insult. I remember a tale about Israeli athletes puzzled by the fact that Arabs (yes, Arabs, is that a naughty word also) at an Olympic event were hissing 'Jews, Jews' at them. They responded by saying, yes, we are Jews, so what? (Kishon).

You can interpret or use any adjective or noun in a negative way, you damned whitey, you slant eyed git, you blue eyed blond icy hearted Swede, you.

As long as you live here, until the end of your days, you will be a Farang, live with it. I sometimes buy Farang food, get upset about paying Farang prices, I find out if there are other Farangs living nearby if I go visit.. what word do you suggest they use as a replacement? How about <deleted>, that's a fairly universally unserstood word...

No, not "<deleted>" or anything of the sort.

Now here is a real concept that even some Thais may grasp (if they cared or bothered to)....... they can use words that they already have in their language......how easy can that be? look kha = customer, pu-chai/pu-ying = man/woman, Khun = Mr/Mrs/Ms, Khon = person/people and so on........... It's not rocket science...it's being polite, considerate and respectful....just as they (Thais) would want to receive in return.

How fair and reasonable is that I ask?

Sure, as I mentioned earlier, the "F" word can be used appropriately from time to time. No problem.

But, with many Thais in many situations, the last thing on their mind is a westerners equal desire to be treated and spoken to and referred to with politness, consideration and respect.

But, as indicated previously, it's one of the things one must put up with if you've decided to make the place your home,,,for better or worse.

[MonkeyMagic3]

From reading through the posts again it seems quite a few people voted NO from reading the topic title and nothing else. And it also seems like quite a few members believe I am saying Farang should never be used and is derogatory, that isn't what I said!

My main reason for asking starting this poll/thread was to see if there are occasions, like the example I gave, when members feel that being addressed as Farang is not appropriate. I find it very hard to believe that the 145 people that have voted NO so far would not mind being called Khun Farang in the following situations...

a) You are in a hospital waiting area and the nurses are calling people when it is their turn. The nurse has a document with each persons name on and when calling a Thai person they use the correct name ie Khun Nittipon but when calling you (your name is easy to pronounce) they call Khun Farang.

b)You are waiting in a government office (in my case the transport office) and once again the staff have everyone's name that is waiting and, once again, they are using everyone's name when calling them. But when they call you they say Khun Farang.

These are just two recent examples when I feel the name Farang wasn't appropriate, there have been others in similar situations, you really wouldn't mind in the slightest if that happened to you?

[Khonwan]

South and South East Asians who are Muslims are called “keg” by Thais; Arabs are often called “keg farang”. I remember going to a small Muslim village in my province (Nakhon Sawan) to buy a couple of goats. My wife’s old gran was with us. A goat-owner who was about to sell to me suddenly changed his mind when old granny called him “Keg” to his face.

I feel the same way about “farang”. I have no problem being referred to as farang; indeed, I’ve told educated Thais who are trying to avoid the word that I use it also. It annoys me only when a Thai who knows my name uses the word, in my presence, instead of my name; it is a matter of respect. If a Thai speaking to me does not know my name, I expect him to use “Khun” rather than “Farang” in place of my name…and would tell him so if he, like old granny, was too insensitive to realise.

[TommoPhysicist]

My main reason for asking starting this poll/thread was to see if there are occasions, like the example I gave, when members feel that being addressed as Farang is not appropriate. I find it very hard to believe that the 145 people that have voted NO so far would not mind being called Khun Farang in the following situations...

You didn't ask if we were bothered by being called 'khun farang'

Don't change the rules after the vote is in!

[DrTuner]

Perhaps us married folks could request ourselves to be referred to as Phua Thai in the same sense as Mia Farang is meant. A bit too red for most palates, I suppose.

[Naam]

you really wouldn't mind in the slightest if that happened to you?

no, i would not mind! especially if/when i am addressed as "Khun Farang".

[DrTuner]

The Khun Farang thing would heavily suck in f.ex. Chonburi Immigration. Imagine the mayhem when 200 Farangs rush to a single desk. Works fine if you're the only one, just step up to the plate, grab your cojones and show who's the Mastah to the gawkers.

[yourauntbob]

It bothered me when i first got here, now i realize there is no ill intent and have gotten over it.

[exeter]

When here it being called its a bit like being spotted, made some ones days, perhaps a bit like train spotting, where is Ian Allan when you need him!

Is it one of the first things taught in school..."How to spot a Farang." "What is Farang and where do they come from?" If only they bothered to find out the answers to these questions eh?

Would this be such a problem if Thailand had been colonised?

Questions questions............This subject is a bit like the weather in the UK, almost because if we called some people Farangs we would be accused of being racist by some politically correct jobsworth!

[Jingthing]

What a load of politically correct codswallop is being expressed here. People upset by the use of this word probably used words like 'wop' and '<deleted>' in their youth as an insult. As long as you live here you will be a Farang, the word is not an insult. I remember a tale about Israeli athletes puzzled by the fact that Arabs (yes, Arabs, is that a naughty word also) at an Olympic event were hissing 'Jews, Jews' at them. They responded by saying, yes, we are Jews, so what? (Kishon).

...

That actually is a very poor example.

A Jew is always a Jew anywhere in the world. Israel, Egypt, Sweden, Thailand and Jews know they are Jews, though of course the simple descriptive word Jew is also very often used in a derogatory way. Those Israelis knew that, but they were expressing confidence in their identity and choosing not to be insulted, but defiant and proud instead.

I for one do NOT self identify with the f-rang identity. That's a bridge too far for me. I won't go there. That is a false structure invented by the Thais. It's all about their world view and it has nothing to do with the world view OUTSIDE Thailand.

F-rangs? Those creamy people from the creamy countries who are labeled f-rangs first learn that they are labeled f-rangs when they come to Thailand. The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

[MonkeyMagic3]

My main reason for asking starting this poll/thread was to see if there are occasions, like the example I gave, when members feel that being addressed as Farang is not appropriate. I find it very hard to believe that the 145 people that have voted NO so far would not mind being called Khun Farang in the following situations...

You didn't ask if we were bothered by being called 'khun farang'

Don't change the rules after the vote is in!

The khun is neither here nor there, if people read my first post and not just the title of the thread they would see I was asking whether there are certain situations when being addressed as 'Farang' is not appropriate.

[chiangmaikelly]

Look at Naam and all the smart people who agree with him. This question is an excellent measure of intellegence on Thai Visa. If you agree with Naam you are smart if not you are not.

[Berkshire]

The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

Of course, you're wrong JT. You will be a farang anywhere you go on this planet, even in the west. Except there, the comparable English term would be Caucasian, westerner, European, white man, etc. There will be different terms in other countries/languages which mean the same thing, whether it's Japan...or Korea....or Mexico...even in Hawaii. So if it bothers you, I guess you're kind of screwed.

[Jingthing]

The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

Of course, you're wrong JT. You will be a farang anywhere you go on this planet, even in the west. Except there, the comparable English term would be Caucasian, westerner, European, white man, etc. There will be different terms in other countries/languages which mean the same thing, whether it's Japan...or Korea....or Mexico...even in Hawaii. So if it bothers you, I guess you're kind of screwed.

I didn't say it bothers me, did I? I just said I don't INTERNALIZE it. Thai person says f-rang. I think, I know you are talking about me but that word isn't actually about me, it's about that Thai persons conditioning. Maybe you think you are a f-rang. Enjoy. I don't.

I also think you way simplify the Thai specific social implications of the way the concept of f-rang is used in Thai culture (no I do not believe it is actually a neutral racial descriptor here like Caucasian), but personally too lazy to go into that here.

[barky]

The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

Of course, you're wrong JT. You will be a farang anywhere you go on this planet, even in the west. Except there, the comparable English term would be Caucasian, westerner, European, white man, etc. There will be different terms in other countries/languages which mean the same thing, whether it's Japan...or Korea....or Mexico...even in Hawaii. So if it bothers you, I guess you're kind of screwed.

I think you misunderstood (maybe on purpose). I believe JT was talking from a Thai perspective. IE: to most THAIS, a westerner (probably white) would always be (and referred to as) a farang in the Thais eyes and mind in every corner of the world.

[Berkshire]

The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

Of course, you're wrong JT. You will be a farang anywhere you go on this planet, even in the west. Except there, the comparable English term would be Caucasian, westerner, European, white man, etc. There will be different terms in other countries/languages which mean the same thing, whether it's Japan...or Korea....or Mexico...even in Hawaii. So if it bothers you, I guess you're kind of screwed.

I think you misunderstood (maybe on purpose). I believe JT was talking from a Thai perspective. IE: to most THAIS, a westerner (probably white) would always be (and referred to as) a farang in the Thais eyes and mind in every corner of the world.

I've read both yours and JT's responses and I understand perfectly well what you guys are saying. Let me give another example. In America, most Americans consider all people of Asiatic descent "Asians." It doesn't really matter too much if they're from Korea, Japan, China, or Thailand, for that matter--all Asians. Same with "Hispanics," all folks from Latin America. Now if these same Americans were to travel to Asia and South America and see all the different nationalities in these countries, they may come away with more of an appreciation of the differences of each country. But most Americans have not and will not.

Same with the Thais. You can't fault the Thais for grouping all farangs into one basket....this is the same as what westerners do in the west to Asians and Hispanics. And what all locals do to foreigners in their countries. It's not an intentional attempt to offend anyone. I can go on and on, but hey, whatever. Keep barking-at-the-moon if you must.

[Jayman]

The moment you leave Thailand you are no longer f-rang except if you encounter some very slow witted Thais abroad who don't get there is a bigger world. I prefer NOT to internalize this obnoxious labeling. If that makes me a bad expat, I can cope with that.

Of course, you're wrong JT. You will be a farang anywhere you go on this planet, even in the west. Except there, the comparable English term would be Caucasian, westerner, European, white man, etc. There will be different terms in other countries/languages which mean the same thing, whether it's Japan...or Korea....or Mexico...even in Hawaii. So if it bothers you, I guess you're kind of screwed.

I think you misunderstood (maybe on purpose). I believe JT was talking from a Thai perspective. IE: to most THAIS, a westerner (probably white) would always be (and referred to as) a farang in the Thais eyes and mind in every corner of the world.

I've read both yours and JT's responses and I understand perfectly well what you guys are saying. Let me give another example. In America, most Americans consider all people of Asiatic descent "Asians." It doesn't really matter too much if they're from Korea, Japan, China, or Thailand, for that matter--all Asians. Same with "Hispanics," all folks from Latin America. Now if these same Americans were to travel to Asia and South America and see all the different nationalities in these countries, they may come away with more of an appreciation of the differences of each country. But most Americans have not and will not.

Same with the Thais. You can't fault the Thais for grouping all farangs into one basket....this is the same as what westerners do in the west to Asians and Hispanics. And what all locals do to foreigners in their countries. It's not an intentional attempt to offend anyone. I can go on and on, but hey, whatever. Keep barking-at-the-moon if you must.

Yes but how often do you hear folks in america calling out to asians "hey asian, come here". Or walking up to them in the hospital waiting room, "Mr Asian, the doctor will see you now"

[Jingthing]

Yes but how often do you hear folks in america calling out to asians "hey asian, come here". Or walking up to them in the hospital waiting room, "Mr Asian, the doctor will see you now"

Exactomundo

[Berkshire]

Yes but how often do you hear folks in america calling out to asians "hey asian, come here". Or walking up to them in the hospital waiting room, "Mr Asian, the doctor will see you now"

Exactomundo

You guys must live in a different Thailand because I frankly don't hear it used that way. But to be fair, are the folks in America trying to speak Thai when they say that?