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Wood Powered Steam Engine + Power Gennerator


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Posted

hello im gonna built a wood burning steam engine for supply my house with electric but for most to get the bill down alot

anybody knows what the policy is if i produce more power than i connsumed , i get a check from the electric company??

or they make a big prblem that i frauded the meter?

got sort or less all the knowledge for building this machine and wood for burning is no problem to get the same as water

Posted

Good luck in your endeavour. I won't even start to go in to the hazards of home-built boilers, I hope you really do have the necessary knowledge.

To answer your post, there is no facility to sell to the grid, however if you are a net user (use more than you generate) there is no legislation preventing you going grid-tied and spinning your meter backwards, provided you spin it forwards more.

BUT and this is a big BUT, it is vital that your system incorporates fully automatic island protection so it disconnects from the grid should the mains supply fail. This is non-negotiable as a power 'island' could result in a hazard to those trying to restore your power.

Commercial grid-tied solar inverters handle this automatically, do you have the necessary knowledge to incorporate in your system?

EDIT because of poor internet.

What sort of power levels are you looking at? How are you going to synchronise your alternator to the grid? What about frequency control, steam engines are inherently unstable speed wise.

Maybe you should consider generating DC (car or truck alternator) and using a commercial inverter to do your grid-tie functionality.

Posted

I would imagine its going to burn A LOT OF WOOD. Not so good for the environment either. :rolleyes:

sent from my ..................#

Posted

thanks for all the reply

a am planning on using 12 or 24 volt and convert that to 220 50hz

with an ups so there is automatic the safety in case the power goes out

besides the point that buying is not a option ,,im a poor farang (they exist) i also love the chalenge of building stuf myself

for the safety there are many ways to built your water boiler and i dont need to heat up hundreds of liters to create steam

with a "water tube boiler for example

Posted

If you are not familiar with working with steam i would for certain NOT recommend it . Steam is much more dangerous then boiling water for coffee or boiling an egg . Some things to consider . What kind of steel are you using and how is it welded ? There are 100's if not 1000's different kinds of steel and choosing a wrong type does have not the best effect like temp corrosion and brittleness . Did you ever witness a condensation slam ( don't know the english translation ) , where the steam is getting in contact with a colder part and suddenly condensates . Trust me ... in every steam system it is very dangerous , destroys metals way beyond design pressures and even you if you are close enough .

Buying a steam boiler designed for this purpose is possible but the pricetag is not the lowest either .

Posted

You plan to use 12 or 24 VDC batteries to supply a 220VAC 50Hz inverter. A switch must be connected between the incoming supply from the grid and your installation so as to prevent back feeding. The switch should be 2 pole change over type with an OFF (0) position. Connections would be 1. Grid supply 0. Off. 2. Inverter supply.

Your battery capacity will have to be large enough to supply your requirements for a predetermined number of hours when the grid supply is unavailable. This will also determine the size of your inverter.

You can also use a solar array to charge your batteries.

One would not advise the use of steam as a source of energy.

Note Grid connected inverters operate with an input voltage in excess of 120VDC and are not suitable for 12/24/48VDC operation.

Posted (edited)

Note Grid connected inverters operate with an input voltage in excess of 120VDC and are not suitable for 12/24/48VDC operation.

Except those which are 12V input http://www.12vgridti.../PSW1500-12-230 plenty of others in 24 and 48V.

But they are not designed to synchronise with the grid.( grid tied) They are stand alone units and can be used with a change over switch. It would appear that the OP does not intend to use a grid tied solution

Yes there are inverters that operate under 120VDC and have provision to synchronise to the grid.

Edited by electau
Posted

Note Grid connected inverters operate with an input voltage in excess of 120VDC and are not suitable for 12/24/48VDC operation.

Except those which are 12V input http://www.12vgridti.../PSW1500-12-230 plenty of others in 24 and 48V.

But they are not designed to synchronise with the grid.( grid tied) They are stand alone units and can be used with a change over switch. It would appear that the OP does not intend to use a grid tied solution

Sorry wrong link you need the units with the GT suffix http://www.12vgridti...GT300-14-28-230 variants up to > 5kW.

OP mentioned generating more than he used and getting a cheque from the electric company, which would require a grid-tied solution (not that he's going to get a cheque as there are no facilities for same).

Posted

You are on a US website.

Why would that be an issue? and it's actually a Chinese company.

You stated that 12V GT inverters were not available, I simply reported that they are.

Posted (edited)

My mistake as I was obtaining my information from a different source.

Was not impressed by the information regarding them no mention of standards ie IEC, from the PRC website. I would certainly not use one.

Edited by electau
Posted

Mistakes are never an issue, this forum is all about information exchange :)

I didn't say those Chinese inverters were any good smile.png

But lots of good quality stuff does come out of China along with the rubbish, the hard part is determining which is which. I'm currently dealing with a Shanghai company as a supplier on a multi-million dollar project, their product (stainless fabrications) is of excellent quality, reasonably priced and delivered late.

Posted

I built a steam engine when I was younger and it was a wonderful task. It wasn't that big that it could supply power for a house but to get it built it tooks time an access to machines, measuring instruments, safety equipment etc. Cannot see how to get all this done "cheap" As I said, an interesting task. After solving all technical problems I would find it difficult to get enough wood to run the machine. I would not dare to compete with the rubber farmers who fight to get wood to smoke their rubber sheets.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

Posted

You are on a US website. Check this website . Has infomation on all types of inverters.

http://www.solaronli...-grid-feed.html

what exactly does a "grid feed" inverter?

If you produce more power than you need, you can feed the grid. In many countries you will get money for your power delivery.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

wouldn't any normal inverter do the same?

Posted (edited)

You are on a US website. Check this website . Has infomation on all types of inverters.

http://www.solaronli...-grid-feed.html

what exactly does a "grid feed" inverter?

If you produce more power than you need, you can feed the grid. In many countries you will get money for your power delivery.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

wouldn't any normal inverter do the same?

A grid feed inverter converts DC to AC and than feeds it into the grid and thereby possibly generates revenue. A "normal" inverter converts DC to AC and than allows one to do as one likes: eg feed it into the grid and thereby possibly generate revenue. You might like to read more about this in Simple Semantics or How Marketing Speak Re-envisages the World

Edited by Morakot
Posted

Have we come around to the beginning of April already?

All my working life has has been spent with boilers, steam turbines and generators.

You could find building the boiler just a little difficult, were you thinking of 'rivits' or 'throwing weld on from a distance' like they do here. Controlling the the water level and steam pressure again not that easy, and of course who is going to keep throwing the logs in!.. the min. wage is now 300Baht a day so they tell me. The engine again somewhat difficult especially speed control ... just make sure that no-one drops the generator off else woops!

The generator has been covered by the experts. I don't think that the overall efficiency would be must above single figures, though probably wouldn't matter if you are going to steal all the logs though. Don't forget the water treatment plant for the boiler, well you would need to 'soften' it a bit.

Save money .................. probably not ..... but an challenging idea never the less.

I guess that you have searched the internet about steam engines ..... Bio Steam Engine and Mr Greens Green Steam Engines and all the other 'nutters' that are around.

I'd love to know what you did for a living .... engineer or wine maker? Lets see the finished product, but before it blows up please enjoy.

Posted

You are on a US website. Check this website . Has infomation on all types of inverters.

http://www.solaronli...-grid-feed.html

what exactly does a "grid feed" inverter?

If you produce more power than you need, you can feed the grid. In many countries you will get money for your power delivery.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

wouldn't any normal inverter do the same?

No, a grid tie inverter synchronises its output to the live grid. Try connecting a regular inverter to a live grid and it will likely go pop in a big way :(

  • Like 1
Posted

No, a grid tie inverter synchronises its output to the live grid. Try connecting a regular inverter to a live grid and it will likely go pop in a big way sad.png

that explains the huge price difference.

Posted

A grid feed inverter converts DC to AC and than feeds it into the grid and thereby possibly generates revenue. A "normal" inverter converts DC to AC and than allows one to do as one likes: eg feed it into the grid and thereby possibly generate revenue. You might like to read more about this in Simple Semantics or How Marketing Speak Re-envisages the World

my three inverters convert DC to AC too. not to feed the grid but to provide power to certain areas when one or more phases have a brown-out or are gone completely. but the batteries who feed the inverters are fed/charged by the grid.

Posted
I guess that you have searched the internet about steam engines ..... Bio Steam Engine and Mr Greens Green Steam Engines and all the other 'nutters' that are around.

thumbsup.gif

Posted

Alternative power supplies. APS.

1. Diesel generator or inverter supplied by batteries. Change over switch required manual or automatic (ATS).

2. Grid connected PV solar array. Permanently conected to the grid. Must have backfeeding protection installed within the inverter.

3. Stand Alone system. May be a generator or an inverter supplied by batteries.

With system 1. The grid supplies power under normal conditions.

With system 2. The grid supplies power in parallel with the inverter while the solar cells are producing energy. In the event of loss of supply on the grid the inverter will NOT generate any output.

With system 3. There is no connection to the grid.

With system 2. The consumer must have a contract with the supply authority and at the present time this is not available (AFAIK) for most consumers in Thailand.

Posted

hey thank you all for all th feedback and tips

in the meanwhile im now looking into the woodgas option and that looks a lot better and safer than the steam engine

while i think i still gonna make one some day small just for the fun of it

for the wood there is no problem cos i can also use the rice husks which if i buy em will be really cheap since the family got about 30 rai of riceland

my neibour is mostly busy with making charcoal so there is a possibillity to join operatrions he free electric charcoal for sale and me a extra hand to keep feeding the oven from time to time

the idea of feeding the grid is no longer in my mind as they not gonna pay for my trouble

so providing myself ald some others nearby would be sufficient

and in case i need power from the gov. just flick the main switch back on

again ,thanks all TV'ers

Posted (edited)

A grid feed inverter converts DC to AC and than feeds it into the grid and thereby possibly generates revenue. A "normal" inverter converts DC to AC and than allows one to do as one likes: eg feed it into the grid and thereby possibly generate revenue. You might like to read more about this in Simple Semantics or How Marketing Speak Re-envisages the World

my three inverters convert DC to AC too. not to feed the grid but to provide power to certain areas when one or more phases have a brown-out or are gone completely. but the batteries who feed the inverters are fed/charged by the grid.

I see. My speculations were incorrect, as we learned from Crossy that a grid-tie inverter matches the phase with the utility-supplied sine wave and that it also has anti-islanding protection.

Edited by Morakot
  • Like 1
Posted

thanks crossy found that one already plus an oldie on pdf from way back and some more recent stuff for optimize the gas from the source ,, plan is to eventually power a good 100 a 220 v generator so a 2000 /2500 cc gasoline engine is on the wishlist the rest as such as barrels and thick sheets of metal was planing to collect / exchange at the recycle places around town since we gather about 700 thb in empty bottle / cans every month ( small restaurant and the thai play snooker drink alot) as do i and the rest of the household.

for that inverter thank you for the advice but it seems that im not gonna be feeding the net

so i just need my power to be stable and constant

will keep you informed about the progress if you like ?

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