This was the woman

Was Thatcher a ’Champion of Freedom and Democracy’? Don’t. Be. Silly.

Ah yes, a piece in The Huffington Post, well known for it's impartiality (not!); written by Mehdi Hasan; a man who has described non Muslims as "people of no intelligence" and "cattle!"

Take that serioulsy? Don't. Be. Silly.

The facts are irrefutable whoever may be reporting them, she was a friend of all those dictators!

There are facts, and there is spin.

It is obvious the spin Hasan has put onto the facts, and why.

Even so, I have repeatedly said that i was not in full agreement with every aspect of Thatcher's premiership and policies.

However, as someone who was old enough to vote in all the elections she won (were you?) I do feel, despite never having voted for her, that she certainly left the UK in a better state than she found it and possibly the world, too.

This was the woman

Was Thatcher a ’Champion of Freedom and Democracy’? Don’t. Be. Silly.

Ah yes, a piece in The Huffington Post, well known for it's impartiality (not!); written by Mehdi Hasan; a man who has described non Muslims as "people of no intelligence" and "cattle!"

Take that serioulsy? Don't. Be. Silly.

The facts are irrefutable whoever may be reporting them, she was a friend of all those dictators!

There are facts, and there is spin.

It is obvious the spin Hasan has put onto the facts, and why.

Even so, I have repeatedly said that i was not in full agreement with every aspect of Thatcher's premiership and policies.

However, as someone who was old enough to vote in all the elections she won (were you?) I do feel, despite never having voted for her, that she certainly left the UK in a better state than she found it and possibly the world, too.

It's not spin, she was a friend of all those dictators, an evil woman whose fiscal policies we are now reaping the rewards of (sic). She made a few people rich but many more were devastated by her policies, she destroyed society.

The world is not black and white, but she saved Britain from financial collapse and deserves credit for doing it.

You're having a larf, she set Britain on the road to ruin by removing all regulation from the spivs in the city leading to the crisis we're in now.

Ah yes, a piece in The Huffington Post, well known for it's impartiality (not!); written by Mehdi Hasan; a man who has described non Muslims as "people of no intelligence" and "cattle!"

Take that serioulsy? Don't. Be. Silly.

The facts are irrefutable whoever may be reporting them, she was a friend of all those dictators!

There are facts, and there is spin.

It is obvious the spin Hasan has put onto the facts, and why.

Even so, I have repeatedly said that i was not in full agreement with every aspect of Thatcher's premiership and policies.

However, as someone who was old enough to vote in all the elections she won (were you?) I do feel, despite never having voted for her, that she certainly left the UK in a better state than she found it and possibly the world, too.

It's not spin, she was a friend of all those dictators, an evil woman whose fiscal policies we are now reaping the rewards of (sic). She made a few people rich but many more were devastated by her policies, she destroyed society.

That facts don't bear out your statement about making more people poor.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/disposable-personal-income

I'm working class. I was always financially better of under the Tories. I really resented my taxes going on the cradle to the grave benefit receivers. I had a family as neighbours, who could not understand my resentment, and who when the clamp down came thought it was unfair. They always had money for fags and booze. Never any for the kids.

I don't think it is a secret that Obama prefers Chavez to thacher

Especially since he's dead too.

fasteddie, you say she destroyed society.

Destroyed society?

When was the last time rubbish was being piled up on the streets and parks?

When was the last time the dead were left to rot unburied?

When was the last time schools, offices and factories had to close due to a three day week?

When was the last time women and children were spat on, and worse, in the street simply because their husband and father wouldn't join a strike which had nothing to do with him or his place of work?

All before Thatcher reigned in the power of the unions. Something no PM before her had the guts to do; either because they were too weak (e.g. Heath) or the unions were their paymasters (e.g. Wilson).

She was not all good, neither was she all bad. But on the whole I think she was more good than bad.

Others think the opposite and say why in a reasoned manner which means one can respect their view whilst at the same time disagreeing with it.

Then there's people like you who find one or two bad points to pick on and ignore the rest as it defeats your assertion that she was 'evil.' Doing so proves that your argument is ill informed and weak and so deserving of zero respect.

BTW, are you old enough to have ever voted for or against her, assuming you are British?

i tend to agree with 7by7 - the sum total of MT was positive for the country.

one of the biggest problems with maggie's legacy is that she went out a villain who overstayed her welcome and was booted out for some actually pretty awful stuff - i was an 18 year old student when she introduced the poll tax in scotland and it WAS wrong on so many levels and in politics as much or more than anywhere else, you're only as good as the last mistake you make ....

http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/margret-thatchers-19-most-badass-moments

The world is not black and white, but she saved Britain from financial collapse and deserves credit for doing it.

She stopped the gangrene of Liberalism for a while but sadly, the last Conservative has left Old Blighty with her passing...

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinions; even George Galloway.

The man expelled from the Labour party for bringing it into disrepute.

The man who has to change constituencies at every election because he never gets reelected in his previous one.

The man who said to Saddam "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably."

The man who had to repay nearly £2000 of improperly claimed expenses when he was a director of the charity War on Want.

The man who said "I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life."

The man who rarely turns up in Parliament and, apart from blair when he was PM, 5 Sinn Fein MPs who don' t attend on principle, two MPs who had died and the Speaker and Deputy Speaker who are ineligible to vote, the man who has attended the fewest divisions (up until Sept 2009 just 93 out of a possible1,113!). Still draws his MPs salary, though.

(Source)

In 100 years time people will still know who Thatcher was; I doubt that Galloway will be remembered 10 years hence.

Well we all know Galloway is the original Socialite good time charlie MP,whose only interest in Politics,is showing the other MPs and Parties he really does know how to have a good time at tax payers expense,and take the piss! Sucks up to any regime,such as Gadaffi,as long as they will support his lifestyle, and lack of principles,morals,and prone to jumping ship in calm waters. So what else is new?

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinions; even George Galloway.

The man expelled from the Labour party for bringing it into disrepute.

The man who has to change constituencies at every election because he never gets reelected in his previous one.

The man who said to Saddam "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably."

The man who had to repay nearly £2000 of improperly claimed expenses when he was a director of the charity War on Want.

The man who said "I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life."

The man who rarely turns up in Parliament and, apart from blair when he was PM, 5 Sinn Fein MPs who don' t attend on principle, two MPs who had died and the Speaker and Deputy Speaker who are ineligible to vote, the man who has attended the fewest divisions (up until Sept 2009 just 93 out of a possible1,113!). Still draws his MPs salary, though.

(Source)

In 100 years time people will still know who Thatcher was; I doubt that Galloway will be remembered 10 years hence.

Well we all know Galloway is the original Socialite good time charlie MP,whose only interest in Politics,is showing the other MPs and Parties he really does know how to have a good time at tax payers expense,and take the piss! Sucks up to any regime,such as Gadaffi,as long as they will support his lifestyle, and lack of principles,morals,and prone to jumping ship in calm waters. So what else is new?

Forgot to add Q. Who the F*** keeps voting for him?

Everyone is, of course, entitled to their opinions; even George Galloway.

The man expelled from the Labour party for bringing it into disrepute.

The man who has to change constituencies at every election because he never gets reelected in his previous one.

The man who said to Saddam "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigably."

The man who had to repay nearly £2000 of improperly claimed expenses when he was a director of the charity War on Want.

The man who said "I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life."

The man who rarely turns up in Parliament and, apart from blair when he was PM, 5 Sinn Fein MPs who don' t attend on principle, two MPs who had died and the Speaker and Deputy Speaker who are ineligible to vote, the man who has attended the fewest divisions (up until Sept 2009 just 93 out of a possible1,113!). Still draws his MPs salary, though.

(Source)

In 100 years time people will still know who Thatcher was; I doubt that Galloway will be remembered 10 years hence.

Well we all know Galloway is the original Socialite good time charlie MP,whose only interest in Politics,is showing the other MPs and Parties he really does know how to have a good time at tax payers expense,and take the piss! Sucks up to any regime,such as Gadaffi,as long as they will support his lifestyle, and lack of principles,morals,and prone to jumping ship in calm waters. So what else is new?

Forgot to add Q. Who the F*** keeps voting for him?

Well he is the MP for the Pakistan city of Bradford West.maybe he's an example of what's to become of the UK.

i tend to agree with 7by7 - the sum total of MT was positive for the country.

one of the biggest problems with maggie's legacy is that she went out a villain who overstayed her welcome and was booted out for some actually pretty awful stuff - i was an 18 year old student when she introduced the poll tax in scotland and it WAS wrong on so many levels and in politics as much or more than anywhere else, you're only as good as the last mistake you make ....

Cannot agree with your condemnation of the Poll Tax,at that time I was a Tax payer and I thought it only right that everybody should pay an equal sum for the services provided by the local council,with a few exceptions,example =people who were genuinely unable to work.

It stopped my old age neighbour who lived alone from having to pay more than a household with perhaps as many as 6 working people or a household consisting of the work shy.

i tend to agree with 7by7 - the sum total of MT was positive for the country.

one of the biggest problems with maggie's legacy is that she went out a villain who overstayed her welcome and was booted out for some actually pretty awful stuff - i was an 18 year old student when she introduced the poll tax in scotland and it WAS wrong on so many levels and in politics as much or more than anywhere else, you're only as good as the last mistake you make ....

Cannot agree with your condemnation of the Poll Tax,at that time I was a Tax payer and I thought it only right that everybody should pay an equal sum for the services provided by the local council,with a few exceptions,example =people who were genuinely unable to work.

It stopped my old age neighbour who lived alone from having to pay more than a household with perhaps as many as 6 working people or a household consisting of the work shy.

it stuck in our throats in scotland because it's written in the UK constitution that a tax shall not be levied in one part of the land and not another - yet she went ahead and did it anyway, in scotland where the vast majority of voters voted for her opponents.

Whilst I agree that introducing the poll tax in Scotland first was a mistake; it should have been introduced across the whole country, I doubt that you will find it "written in the UK constitution that a tax shall not be levied in one part of the land and not another" simply because the UK does not have a written constitution!

However, there may very well be a statute or similar saying broadly the same thing.

I have already posted the following elsewhere, but will repeat it here:-

Pre poll tax myself, two brothers, and my sister all lived with my parents. We all worked, and my father paid the rates.

Six working people paying the same in total as the one retired widow living next door.

How was that fair?

During the poll tax our household paid more in total; but the 6 of us each paid the same as the widow next door, who paid less than she had before.

Yet some people say that was unfair!

Unfortunately Thatcher did back down on this and so the council tax came into being, the rates by a different name, and we went back to the pre poll tax situation of 6 working people paying in total the same as one retired widow.

How is that fair?

Too which I should add that under all three systems, those who genuinely could not pay some or even all of the amount due could, and still can, have their bills reduced; all the way down to zero if necessary.

Yes 7by7 but I don't think you read my post on these "reductions".

A month and a half's wages I was expected to pay. If there was a reduction system at work they must have mislaid my application!

A month and a half's wages to cover the whole year; payment of which could be spread over the year.

It is too long ago for me to remember the exact amount I had to pay, but to be honest I don't think it was that high; you must have been on a very low wage in which case you could have applied for a reduction.

As I said, prior to the poll tax I paid nothing because my father paid the rates. After the poll tax I paid nothing as he paid the council tax.

Then I left home and and my 'bill' went from nothing to much more (can't remember exactly how much) as I had to pay council tax myself.

Surely you're situation was very similar.

I ask you directly; is it fair that a household of 6 working people should pay the same as one retired widow?

That was the situation before the poll tax and has been the situation since.

I should add that subsequent to originally posting the above, I have said that some form of local income tax is, I think, the fairest way of funding local services. Not sure how workable that would be when most people work in a different area to where they live, though.

I think this has been posted elsewhere; but it's well worth a read.

Viewpoint: What if Margaret Thatcher had never been?

A fair and balanced view, in my opinion.

Even those least able to pay, students and the unemployed, still had to pay the poll tax.

Not all of it; 20% at most.

Will you answer the question; how is it fair that under both the rates and the council tax 6 working people in one house pay the same as one retired widow living next door?

Whilst I agree that introducing the poll tax in Scotland first was a mistake; it should have been introduced across the whole country, I doubt that you will find it "written in the UK constitution that a tax shall not be levied in one part of the land and not another" simply because the UK does not have a written constitution!

However, there may very well be a statute or similar saying broadly the same thing.

Aye fair point, I'll concede even as I typed it I was wondering about the word "constitution", but there is (or was at the time) definitely a law/statute that was ignored regarding the levying of a tax in Scotland but not England.

Sent using the iPad App.

The time to celebrate the end of Thatcher was in 1991, two decades have since past, those who are climbing out of the woodwork now to condemn her should move on. Either they are bitter because they are idle losers who saw the end of handouts, or else they need to ask themselves if they would be able to afford the little soapbox they are now standing on, had she not revived Britain.

It was a dirty job and someone had to do it, she wasn't there to make friends, and she got carried away on her successes to the point of having to be removed. That was her fall and come-uppance. She paid a huge price but eventually died in the satisfaction of a lasting improvement, even witnessing the financial crisis that she was responsible in setting up. It's just as well she lived long enough to appreciate that her deregulation of the financial sector wasn't as great as it initially seemed.

We're all somewhat better off because of her, let those who bemoan the income gap do so with that in context. Or else move to Vietnam or Cuba and see for themselves the alternative.

Not all of it; 20% at most.

Will you answer the question; how is it fair that under both the rates and the council tax 6 working people in one house pay the same as one retired widow living next door?

I would say it most probably isn't fair. Maybe a fairer system would be to base rates on income of a person? But even that most probably would throw up some iniquities.

While the unions most probably needed reforming at the time, she went to far the other way giving to much power to the employer.

In Germany they seem to have got the balance about right where the unions and management seem to work together in partnership.

Not all of it; 20% at most.

Will you answer the question; how is it fair that under both the rates and the council tax 6 working people in one house pay the same as one retired widow living next door?

Because the tax is levied on the property. If one does not wish to pay it, one changes ones' property.

Property taxes encourage the efficient and productive use of property, instead of an old widow living alone in a property that could house six

SC

So you feel that a widowed pensioner should be forced out of the house she and her dead husband spent 25+ years paying the mortgage to own.

The house where her children were born and grew up.

The house where her husband died.

If you believe that, then you must agree with the current governments so called bedroom tax.

So you feel that a widowed pensioner should be forced out of the house she and her dead husband spent 25+ years paying the mortgage to own.

The house where her children were born and grew up.

The house where her husband died.

If you believe that, then you must agree with the current governments so called bedroom tax.

The past is the past. People should not live in it, they should live in appropriate accommodation.

SC

So you do believe in the bedroom tax?

So you do believe in the bedroom tax?

I'm not actually familiar with it.