Do you wai?

[thaibeachlovers]

"so you respect the culture of corruption, exploitation of the masses by the hiso's, appalling driving habits on the roads and lack of infrastructure maintenance resulting in such fiascos as trains frequently falling off the tracks, all of which are part of the Thai "way of life"?"

Bitter much?

Really seems like you made some bad life decisions. Personally, I don't live in the same world that you do let alone country.

I respect the culture of devotion to family, forgiving and ignoring small things, sharing even though you might have little. But apparantly you don't see those things.

I really wonder how you could marry a Thai woman and fully love her with such disdain for her culture, way of life, education, etc.

There are things that definitely tick me off about Thailand and its government, however those things are so minute to the quality of life and community that I have. My neighbors do treat me with respect, equality and fairness. They love my duaghter and treat her very well. I am never treated as you describe yourself to be, but that is perhaps because I respect their way of life first and have proven myself. Respect is earned.

Most Thai's I know are impressed that I know a lot about the history of the country, food,and other cultural aspects.

I stopped comparing Thailand to my home country about 6 months after I got here. I realized that my way of life, upbringing, education shouldn't be the ideal. That I can respect that there are as many ways of doing things as there are people on this planet.

The other thing you might want to look at is how you act. On page 8 of this thread alone you posted 11 responses but there were only 10 responses from everyone else. It is clear that you like yourself and think that you are the only one worth listening to. So it is clear no matter where you live you will never respect or appreciate anything.

I do feel sorry for you actually.

<I really wonder how you could marry a Thai woman and fully love her with such disdain for her culture, way of life, education, etc.>

I didn't marry her for her "culture, way of life, education, etc".

I see you still are wearing the saffron coloured spectacles .

<I do feel sorry for you actually.> Really? that's very kind of you .

[thaibeachlovers]

T.B.L. i think you live in Lampang ? from what you said on another Forum .Anyway where i live ,8 km outside Central Chiang Mai the locals have more often a smile than not .The old people ( 60+ )seem not to smile so much though .

As for giving a Wei ,no i mostly just nod my head .

I stay ( ed ) in the Chiang mai Gate area, I hardly see anyone wai'ing on a daily basis. Maybe the Thais gave given up wai'ing in farang ghettos.

Maybe members should keep a count in the next couple of days as to how many times they are offered a wai. I reckon some would be shocked at how little it can be.

Once today - check out at Tesco.

Doesn't count- they have to do that, just like the clerks at Big C et al.

[zeichen]

"

Sorry, Khun zeichen, it's obvious that your rose-tinted glasses are still on...

Although i don't share entirely " thaibeachlovers" negativity, i understand it quite well.

I hope your romance will last long, but i am afraid it will not last forever.

Just saying.."

WEll, since I have lived in Thailand for over 15 years, married for 12 and don't have any negative experiences that many here gripe about, I guess I must still be in a honeymoon phase or perhaps I have just made better life choices.

"I didn't marry her for her "culture, way of life, education, etc"."

How can you separate someone from their culture, education and way of life?

[semaritual]

No normaly I dont wei. My thai friend told me I should not wei...so i just say "hello"in thai and bend my head to older thai persons or thai friends: otherwise never!

[mca]

How can you separate someone from their culture, education and way of life?

Chloroform them and lock them in a cage in your cellar.

( Cue maniacal evil MWAHAHAHAHAH! laugh)

Edited October 25, 2013 by mca

[theblether]

lol! the british empire seemed to do quite well with their rigid class system!

Aye a bit off topic but divide and rule was the policy we have left more troubles behind than we care to think about - southern Thailand being a case in point.

http://www.chiangmai-chiangrai.com/wai_and_sawasdee.html

Wow, what a selective reading of history that is. The Thai Sukhothai Kingdom had a claim on Pattani area well before the existence of an area known as Pattani. The Ayyutayah Kings had an extensive interest in the area as well, and the Burmese laid claim. However you blame the British. Marvelous.

Go do a bit of research on Thai history and you'll find people crawling along the ground in front of their "superiors". While that aspect of class system may have disappeared this country is still operated on an effective caste system. Not even a class system, but caste.

[dao16]

Why wouldn't you "wai" people? I bow to people when I go to Japan or Korea, because that is what people do there to say hello. I shake a Mongolian's hand if I accidentally hit one of his feet with mine and I kiss people on the cheeks a certain amount of times when I am in some European or Latin American countries.

It is how you say hello here in some contexts. Yeah, it can be complicated sometimes, but I just ask the wife (haven't had to for a while now, as I mostly have it down, although who knows what situations will come up in the future).

Family--check, unless they are little, and I just say "hello" to them in English and the parents love that. Monks, when I do meet them--check (sometimes the full 3 time thing...). To the local store for a beer? No. For a more substantial transaction, like setting up a year-long contract or something....usually they wai me on the way in and on the way out and I do likewise in return.

Finally, if you work here, you almost HAVE to wai people. It's sort of optional with much younger people and workers, although I wai all the workers, even if they are janitors, since they wai me. A few employees speak English and like to shake hands or do a more Western thing. I DON'T wai them, since they get a kick out of switching codes and doing the Western thing. If you have a brain, you can figure it out.

And I guarantee everyone who says it doesn't matter...well, maybe where you are, but I have heard conversations between Thais about guys who don't at least try to wai people, and they are not positive. Again, like many have said, this goes for people who should know better, not for tourists who are here for a short time. But if you are walking around speaking Thai to people and you know the score but aren't waiing, people notice.

It doesn't change your "culture." You are just saying "hi." Like so many people have said....how weirded out would you be if you were back in your home country and some Japanese guy who had lived there for many years insisted on bowing to you and not shaking hands? You would think something was a little off about the guy.

Edited October 25, 2013 by dao16

[theblether]

Why wouldn't you "wai" people? I bow to people when I go to Japan or Korea, because that is what people do there to say hello. I shake a Mongolian's hand if I accidentally hit one of his feet with mine and I kiss people on the cheeks a certain amount of times when I am in some European or Latin American countries.

It is how you say hello here in some contexts. Yeah, it can be complicated sometimes, but I just ask the wife (haven't had to for a while now, as I mostly have it down, although who knows what situations will come up in the future).

Family--check, unless they are little, and I just say "hello" to them in English and the parents love that. Monks, when I do meet them--check (sometimes the full 3 time thing...). To the local store for a beer? No. For a more substantial transaction, like setting up a year-long contract or something....usually they wai me on the way in and on the way out and I do likewise in return.

Finally, if you work here, you almost HAVE to wai people. It's sort of optional with much younger people and workers, although I wai all the workers, even if they are janitors, since they wai me. A few employees speak English and like to shake hands or do a more Western thing. I DON'T wai them, since they get a kick out of switching codes and doing the Western thing. If you have a brain, you can figure it out.

And I guarantee everyone who says it doesn't matter...well, maybe where you are, but I have heard conversations between Thais about guys who don't at least try to wai people, and they are not positive. Again, like many have said, this goes for people who should know better, not for tourists who are here for a short time. But if you are walking around speaking Thai to people and you know the score but aren't waiing, people notice.

It doesn't change your "culture." You are just saying "hi." Like so many people have said....how weirded out would you be if you were back in your home country and some Japanese guy who had lived there for many years insisted on bowing to you and not shaking hands? You would think something was a little off about the guy.

No you wouldn't, you would enjoy the Japanese guy showing you a part of his culture.

[dao16]

Why wouldn't you "wai" people? I bow to people when I go to Japan or Korea, because that is what people do there to say hello. I shake a Mongolian's hand if I accidentally hit one of his feet with mine and I kiss people on the cheeks a certain amount of times when I am in some European or Latin American countries.

It is how you say hello here in some contexts. Yeah, it can be complicated sometimes, but I just ask the wife (haven't had to for a while now, as I mostly have it down, although who knows what situations will come up in the future).

Family--check, unless they are little, and I just say "hello" to them in English and the parents love that. Monks, when I do meet them--check (sometimes the full 3 time thing...). To the local store for a beer? No. For a more substantial transaction, like setting up a year-long contract or something....usually they wai me on the way in and on the way out and I do likewise in return.

Finally, if you work here, you almost HAVE to wai people. It's sort of optional with much younger people and workers, although I wai all the workers, even if they are janitors, since they wai me. A few employees speak English and like to shake hands or do a more Western thing. I DON'T wai them, since they get a kick out of switching codes and doing the Western thing. If you have a brain, you can figure it out.

And I guarantee everyone who says it doesn't matter...well, maybe where you are, but I have heard conversations between Thais about guys who don't at least try to wai people, and they are not positive. Again, like many have said, this goes for people who should know better, not for tourists who are here for a short time. But if you are walking around speaking Thai to people and you know the score but aren't waiing, people notice.

It doesn't change your "culture." You are just saying "hi." Like so many people have said....how weirded out would you be if you were back in your home country and some Japanese guy who had lived there for many years insisted on bowing to you and not shaking hands? You would think something was a little off about the guy.

No you wouldn't, you would enjoy the Japanese guy showing you a part of his culture.

Granted, yes, I would think it was cool and all that because I am interested in cultures, etc., but I would also think "Wow, what's up with Mr. Yamamoto? He has been here for 20 years and still bows to everybody." Not to mention the people who never had the chance to go abroad and have an insight into it. They would think it was extremely strange that the guy wouldn't just say hello and shake hands like everyone else.

Fortunately, "Mr. Yamamoto" is clued in and does shake hands (and stil bows and does all the intense cultural drinking traditions with his Japanese friends).

[theblether]

^^ See now your just stretching it out to win your argument. Where did you mention 20 years before?

Anyway, as for your Thai pals talking about people that don't wai, what do they say about Mr Smith that has lived in the country for 20 years and can't speak Thai?

I'm pretty sure they would be a bit more offended by that.

This topic is a storm in a teacup.

[rijb]

Got to love the TV members

"I dont wai, its not my culture..."

"i dont tip, its not their culture..."

all sounds like people making excuses to do whatever suits them.

I personally do both. Instead of picking the best of both worlds for me, I generally choose the best of both worlds for Thai people.

A big tip followed by an elaborate wai, at McDonalds, would drive the 'culture experts' crazy.

edit: and don't forget to wear your sunglasses inside.

Edited October 25, 2013 by rijb

[dao16]

^^ See now your just stretching it out to win your argument. Where did you mention 20 years before?

Anyway, as for your Thai pals talking about people that don't wai, what do they say about Mr Smith that has lived in the country for 20 years and can't speak Thai?

I'm pretty sure they would be a bit more offended by that.

This topic is a storm in a teacup.

No, not stretching anything out. In the original post, I said imagine a Japanese (random nationality chosen) who had lived in your country for a long time. 20 years seems like a long enough time, so I chose that to elaborate on the original post. So, whatever a "long time" is to you, use that.

And yeah, they don't like the guys who can't speak Thai, and they aren't necessarily "pals." Just people I run into. Whatever......don't wai anybody....it's your existence here, so up to you.

Note: I genuinely enjoy your posts and I know you have a good point of view on things, so I am not trying to be antagonistic about this, but I do disagree on this point.

[FACTOR]

One night I was sitting in a girl-bar just chilling out, and in walk these two old falang who started wai'ing all the girls who looked a little bemused. From that moment onwards I decided to be judicious when I use this special social and cultural practice.

[thaibeachlovers]

"

Sorry, Khun zeichen, it's obvious that your rose-tinted glasses are still on...

Although i don't share entirely " thaibeachlovers" negativity, i understand it quite well.

I hope your romance will last long, but i am afraid it will not last forever.

Just saying.."

WEll, since I have lived in Thailand for over 15 years, married for 12 and don't have any negative experiences that many here gripe about, I guess I must still be in a honeymoon phase or perhaps I have just made better life choices.

"I didn't marry her for her "culture, way of life, education, etc"."

How can you separate someone from their culture, education and way of life?

Very easily. I married her for who she is, not because she believes in ghosts, doesn't complain about corruption or failing infrastructure, wais idols and works excessively long hours for very little pay.

[thaibeachlovers]

No normaly I dont wei. My thai friend told me I should not wei...so i just say "hello"in thai and bend my head to older thai persons or thai friends: otherwise never!

Erm. My wife says if you say hello in Thai, you have to wai.

BTW, I defer to her knowledge of Thai culture before that of any farang on here, and she accepts that I don't wai anyone.

The only time she made me wai, was to her mother when I handed over the sin sod ( which she gave back to me ), and she gave me instructions of how to do it properly in that situation.

[TheSpade]

The only time I notice people wai'ing me is when certain Thai friends who are well respected among their groups of friends introduces me. I don't wai them back as I've got no idea how to do it properly. She says it's not a problem I don't have to wai them anyway.

[elzach]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai. It would be the equivalent of you expecting the sign of the cross from a Thai in your home country.

Exceptions are if you have become "half-Thai" here, ie. by marrying, working or staying here for many years, and then better get your wais right.

So tourists for example are not expected to wai, under any circumstances. A simple nod of the head with a smile will do.

Btw, this is not just a Thai thing. Bowing in Korea or Japan has the same intricacies. A Korean who doesn't bow to a foreigner does not mean disrespect, he/she just may not know your social status, or assumes a handshake is more correct. But if you marry into a Korean family, you better know how to bow to your wife's parents, and how to bow to the grandparents.

[David48]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

[thailiketoo]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

[metisdead]

Off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[elzach]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

Yes, ANY is too strong of a word. But I listed EXCEPTIONS, which you omitted in your reply.

[elzach]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

220px-ronald_mcdonald_thailand.jpg

hil.jpgWai.jpg

Oh yes, Obama...isn't that the same guy who bowed to Hu Jin Tao?

as far as the other two, no comment

[thailiketoo]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai.

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

220px-ronald_mcdonald_thailand.jpg

hil.jpgWai.jpg

Oh yes, Obama...isn't that the same guy who bowed to Hu Jin Tao?

as far as the other two, no comment

Well I have a comment, Ronald is a national and business icon and would never be put in a pose that was not appropriate and Hillary is one of the best known politicians and cheerleader of the US and woman’s rights in the world and also would never be put in a pose that was not appropriate. Each has a staff of hundreds making sure they don’t do anything culturally not appropriate. Hence the largest government and the largest corporation in the world think it is OK for a Westerner to wai.

Edited October 27, 2013 by thailiketoo

[Tchooptip]

I return the wai... sometimes, for instance my owner is a rather old lady very well off, when she comes to see us she stays a certain time to chat, when living she wai at me, of course I return the wai... with a big smile.

My wife sister 40 years old regularly wai to me when she wants to thank me for something, of course I do not wai back I nod and smile. If I am very grateful for an help I appreciate its possible I wai first with my verbal thanks.

[richard_smith237]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai. It would be the equivalent of you expecting the sign of the cross from a Thai in your home country.

Exceptions are if you have become "half-Thai" here, ie. by marrying, working or staying here for many years, and then better get your wais right.

So tourists for example are not expected to wai, under any circumstances. A simple nod of the head with a smile will do.

Btw, this is not just a Thai thing. Bowing in Korea or Japan has the same intricacies. A Korean who doesn't bow to a foreigner does not mean disrespect, he/she just may not know your social status, or assumes a handshake is more correct. But if you marry into a Korean family, you better know how to bow to your wife's parents, and how to bow to the grandparents.

This is perhaps why there are 10 pages of the subject...

IMO: Everyone is expected to attempt to show manners and respect, whichever culture they are from and whichever culture then are in.

In cultures such as Thailand a lack of effort to show respect will draw very little comment, but it will be noticed and remembered.

As many have already said: Its better to try and get it a little wrong than to not try at all.

AND: The wai is not specific to Buddhism... which is why you will see Thai's of varying religions waiing each other (i.e. Thai Muslims, Christians etc) - again more examples of why this thread is 10 pages long, too many people throwing out highly flawed opinions...

[Tchooptip]

No, never. It's not my culture.

Leave it to the Thais.

Agree, foreigners look stupid when they wai.

To other foreigners, to you, maybe, if one have a Thai family, for them probably not

[Tchooptip]

Lord, or in this case, Buddha...10 pages about the wai.

Once and for all, can we resolve this? The wai comes from BUDDHISM, that's why Thais never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai. It would be the equivalent of you expecting the sign of the cross from a Thai in your home country.

Exceptions are if you have become "half-Thai" here, ie. by marrying, working or staying here for many years, and then better get your wais right.

So tourists for example are not expected to wai, under any circumstances. A simple nod of the head with a smile will do.

Btw, this is not just a Thai thing. Bowing in Korea or Japan has the same intricacies. A Korean who doesn't bow to a foreigner does not mean disrespect, he/she just may not know your social status, or assumes a handshake is more correct. But if you marry into a Korean family, you better know how to bow to your wife's parents, and how to bow to the grandparents.

If you want to convince people nothing to stop you!

"It would be the equivalent of you expecting the sign of the cross from a Thai in your home country."

Does it means to say hello to your friends your fellow workers YOU do the sign of the cross! Preposterous example.

Even thought the wai comes from Buddhism the atheist Thais are not exempt of waiing as far as In know.

[kevvy]

A wai is putting your hands together in a call prayer position and seem to pray to any Temple, Buddha statue or even buildings. It is also use to say Sawasdee or Hello.you try not to compare Thai various cultures to your Western concepts of religion .Wai culture is a mixture of Cultural habit or traditional. I know it may seem a little strange to us but that is the belief system in Thai culture. This is why you may see some shrines at the front of houses or in the corners of buildings. they may just be to honor deceased people and so everyone passing will wai even if only for a quick second.I Wai to show respect . Just like shaking hands in my culture.

[thaibeachlovers]

No, never. It's not my culture.

Leave it to the Thais.

Agree, foreigners look stupid when they wai.

To other foreigners, to you, maybe, if one have a Thai family, for them probably not

The only "wai" my Thai family wanted from me was the one holding a handful of money. Now, they just ignore me as much as possible.

[thaibeachlovers]

Sadly, you are mistaken.

Mistaken when you apply a rule universally.

When you say "never expect ANY foreigner (westerner) to wai" is blatantly not true.

(yes, I did truncate the post, but your next words don't apply to me)

While something might be 100% true in your world, it might be 90% true in the guy standing next to you ... close, but not 'ANY'.

220px-ronald_mcdonald_thailand.jpg

hil.jpgWai.jpg

Oh yes, Obama...isn't that the same guy who bowed to Hu Jin Tao?

as far as the other two, no comment

Well I have a comment, Ronald is a national and business icon and would never be put in a pose that was not appropriate and Hillary is one of the best known politicians and cheerleader of the US and woman’s rights in the world and also would never be put in a pose that was not appropriate. Each has a staff of hundreds making sure they don’t do anything culturally not appropriate. Hence the largest government and the largest corporation in the world think it is OK for a Westerner to wai.

I don't think anyone is saying that a farang SHOULD NOT wai IF THEY WANT TO. If someone wants to do something wrong and wai children and service people and wai Thais at the wrong level for their status, by all means go ahead, just don't expect that other farangs HAVE to wai.

If I gave an impression in any of my replies that I think westerners should not wai, if they want to, I apologise. Go right ahead, I need the laugh .

One reply removed to allow posting.