Police introduce system to reduce passport fraud in Phuket

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Police introduce system to reduce passport fraud in Phuket
Anthika Muangrod


Motorbikes are a popular method of transport in Thailand. Photo: Kullez

PHUKET: -- Kathu Police met with more than 30 motorbike rental shop owners yesterday (March 12) to try and work out a solution to tourists using their passports as guarantees for vehicle hire.

After Luigi Maraldi’s passport was given back to the wrong person during a mishap in 2013, police now want to change the system and are asking renters not to keep passports of foreigners.

Police Investigator Pol Capt Khunnadet NaNongkai said from now on, he encouraged all renters in the Kathu area to use the LINE cellphone application to transfer details of foreigners to the police directly.

Renters should send them head shots, plus passport information and other details using this app, but they should not confiscate the passport.

Jirapat Pochanapan, head of Kathu Police, advised motorbike renters, “Never keep the passports of tourists because you will be charged with embezzlement of someone else’s possession. If you must keep the passport, you must get the customer to sign to say they are willing to give you the passport for the rental process. This will protect you.”

Police would also be enforcing the rule that all foreigners were required to keep their passport, or at least a copy, on them at all times.

“I will tell all the hotels and businesses to inform the tourists about this rule. Then in about one month, we will officially start to enforce this rule. Foreigners who aren’t able to show their passport or a copy will be fined no more than B1,000,” Capt Khunnadet said.

Motorbike renter Chonnipa “Pum” Sukkasem explained what happened when a customer stole a rented motorbike, and said real passports as guarantees were essential for bike owners.

“We need to have the real passport of the customers because it’s a guarantee that if anything happens, we will still have something.

“Once, a Russian customer came and said he wanted to rent my motorbike, but he wanted to test the engine first. I let him, then he drove off and never came back again. Can you see; this is why we need to keep the passports.”

Ms Chonnipa said a copy of a person’s passport was useless.

“Before I was aware of this, I only asked for a driving licence from an Australian. He caused a big scratch in my brand new motorbike. When he came back, I fined him B4,000. He told me, ‘It’s just a driving licence, I can get a new one when I get back home’, and he refused to pay. Even if he paid eventually, I still feel this is really risky for motorbike renters. We still need the real passports for our guarantee.”

Another motorbike renter explained how important real passports were for the motorbike renters.

“Once incident happened to a friend of mine. A customer (who put down his real passport as a guarantee) rented a motorbike then damaged it. He didn’t return the motorbike back by the due date, so my friend reported this to the police.

“The customer went to his embassy and said he lost his passport in Thailand, and got an emergency travel document from the embassy. But he wasn’t able to fly home because his name came up at Immigration at the airport, and the police arrested him then. My friend got her motorbike back, plus compensation.

“You have to see things both ways,” she told those at the meeting.

“Nowadays, customers have lots of tricks to fool us.”

But keeping the passports belonging to customers is not entirely foolproof to ensuring you get your money back, Kamonchai Detpichai, a motorbike renter on Patong Beach told the meeting.

“I faced a situation that showed that having the passport of a customer doesn’t help if the authorities don’t help too. One time, a customer gave me his passport, then damaged my motorbike and didn’t return the motorbike in time. He just left my bike somewhere and didn’t tell me. I found out he had gone to the embassy and asked for an emergency travel document, and the embassy issued it!”

“I reported this to the police and to the embassy, but I never got a reply back. Still to this day, I never got any compensation and I had the repair the motorbike myself.”

He also raised another problem: that many foreigners who are living in Thailand, for example, Russians, Vietnamese and Indians, are opening motorbike rental shops using Thai nominees.

This was bad because it meant that there were less business opportunities for Thais, he said.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/police-introduce-system-to-reduce-passport-fraud-in-phuket-45125.php


-- Phuket News 2014-03-13

[LivinginKata]

C'mon - passports are the property of the issuing country. Many news items have confirmed that foreigners must not surrender their passport and must have passport available for inspection.

"He also raised another problem: that many foreigners who are living in Thailand, for example, Russians, Vietnamese and Indians, are opening motorbike rental shops using Thai nominees."

and what has this got to do with the problem, just yet another foreigner "bashing' exercise by the Thai governemnet officials.

[Zolt]

Absolutely, sadly it's still the practice of unlicensed bike rentals all over the country to ask for the passport as a guarantee.

"If you must keep the passport, you must get the customer to sign to say they are willing to give you the passport for the rental process. "

=> That is still not legal, as the passport is not the person's property to lend. I'm shocked to see the cops suggest that (no, not really I'm not)

[madmitch]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

[EBlair48]

" Police introduce system to allay sudden onslaught by foreign media scrutiny of passport fraud .."

[somchaismith]

This is becoming just like the jet ski fiasco.

They just can't stop ballsing-up, can they?

If they can't stop exploiting foreigners and manage their businesses properly, then they should just give and sell toy models at the local market stalls.

[transam]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

Come on. If someone wants a business they must do their homework. A pass port does not, or should not come into THEIR equation.

[madmitch]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

Come on. If someone wants a business they must do their homework. A pass port does not, or should not come into THEIR equation.

OK, what is a viable alternative?

[NamKangMan]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

"I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option" - why can't the shop keep a photocopy of the passport, visa and TM card???? This has been accepted practice to rent a hotel room here for years.

If there's a failure to pay, or pay for damage, they can be arrested at the airport.

What the unscrupulous rental shops want to do is illegally retain possession of a document that is owned by the Governmnet of another country, and in many cases, use it to extort money out of the renters. Usually well over the cost of repair. There in, lays the real problem.

“Foreigners who aren’t able to show their passport or a copy will be fined no more than B1,000,” Capt Khunnadet said." - it seems a photocopy is acceptable to police, why not the bike rental shops?

Edited March 13, 2014 by NamKangMan

[Ricky from Brisbane]

Those people who leave their passports cant be too smart anyway. off they go on their bikes with the GF on back and not wearing a helmet. if they have an accident they are okay becasue they have flip flops for protecting their feet and maybe they wear some boardshorts to save the family jewels. The tough guys dont wear the shirts becasue their tatts will stop the gravel from taking off the skin when they have an accident.

Forget about a license and knowing how to ride its okay because Johnno used to ride his push bike down the street when he was 12 years old and he can ride a moped. Better when he has had 15 beers becasue he has good riding skills and the breeze in his hair.

Them leaving their passports at the rental place just makes it easier to steal, but its going to to be real easy to steal from not so smart peple no matter what.

[davejones23]

I bet most passports are stolen directly from the holder, it from rental shops. It won't stop passport thefts. One report shows the Iranian guy paid $10,000 for his stolen passport.I bet many would even sell their passports.

[madmitch]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

"I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option" - why can't the shop keep a photocopy of the passport, visa and TM card???? This has been accepted practice to rent a hotel room here for years.

If there's a failure to pay, or pay for damage, they can be arrested at the airport.

What the unscrupulous rental shops want to do is illegally retain possession of a document that is owned by the Governmnet of another country, and in many cases, use it to extort money out of the renters. Usually well over the cost of repair. There in, lays the real problem.

“Foreigners who aren’t able to show their passport or a copy will be fined no more than B1,000,” Capt Khunnadet said." - it seems a photocopy is acceptable to police, why not the bike rental shops?

I'm not condoning the practice, just can't think of an alternative that is practical.

The reason a passport is kept is to ensure that the bike is returned, though I do accept that a very small number of rental shops may use the passport as a means of extortion.

A copy is not an acceptable means of security. Someone could write off a bike and have left the country long before the rental shop knows about it. The copy is worthless in this instance.

Insurance is not an option as no underwriter would accept rental bikes in Thailand as a risk.

A credit card is the only real option and this would only be possible for bigger businesses.

[Dogmatix]

Kathu Police met with more than 30 motorbike rental shop owners yesterday (March 12) to try and work out a solution to tourists using their passports as guarantees for vehicle hire.

In my experience the renters try to force the tourists to hand over their passports. I have been asked for this many times and I always tell them the deal is off, if they want to insist on that. They will just have to take a deposit instead and, if that means less business for the rental sharks, so much the better. It will also mean less accidents.

[NamKangMan]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

"I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option" - why can't the shop keep a photocopy of the passport, visa and TM card???? This has been accepted practice to rent a hotel room here for years.

If there's a failure to pay, or pay for damage, they can be arrested at the airport.

What the unscrupulous rental shops want to do is illegally retain possession of a document that is owned by the Governmnet of another country, and in many cases, use it to extort money out of the renters. Usually well over the cost of repair. There in, lays the real problem.

“Foreigners who aren’t able to show their passport or a copy will be fined no more than B1,000,” Capt Khunnadet said." - it seems a photocopy is acceptable to police, why not the bike rental shops?

I'm not condoning the practice, just can't think of an alternative that is practical.

The reason a passport is kept is to ensure that the bike is returned, though I do accept that a very small number of rental shops may use the passport as a means of extortion.

A copy is not an acceptable means of security. Someone could write off a bike and have left the country long before the rental shop knows about it. The copy is worthless in this instance.

Insurance is not an option as no underwriter would accept rental bikes in Thailand as a risk.

A credit card is the only real option and this would only be possible for bigger businesses.

Most of the rental bikes have the name of the shop, or a phone number. Most likely to advertise, but I suspect it's also for "spotters" who ring and inform the shop that the renter has had a accident. I'm sure they get a payment for such information.

I would think very few accidents go unreported to the shop, at the time of the accident.

As the extortion is quite lucrative, there would be a nice payment to a "spotter" for his phone call.

[bubblegum]

Another police brainwave, come BIB stick to what you do best and fine us for not wearing a helmet.

[madmitch]

They must have read my comment in the previous thread.

Seriously, do they really think that a bike hire shop is going to take a photo of everyone hiring a bike and send it to the police via LINE? Is that really going to deter a potential thief, or even someone who can't be bothered returning the bike on the day he/she checks out.

The shop needs some sort of deposit. The vast majority won't take a credit card. Nobody will deposit sufficient cash.

I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option, despite disliking the concept.

"I really can't think of a viable alternative to the passport option" - why can't the shop keep a photocopy of the passport, visa and TM card???? This has been accepted practice to rent a hotel room here for years.

If there's a failure to pay, or pay for damage, they can be arrested at the airport.

What the unscrupulous rental shops want to do is illegally retain possession of a document that is owned by the Governmnet of another country, and in many cases, use it to extort money out of the renters. Usually well over the cost of repair. There in, lays the real problem.

“Foreigners who aren’t able to show their passport or a copy will be fined no more than B1,000,” Capt Khunnadet said." - it seems a photocopy is acceptable to police, why not the bike rental shops?

I'm not condoning the practice, just can't think of an alternative that is practical.

The reason a passport is kept is to ensure that the bike is returned, though I do accept that a very small number of rental shops may use the passport as a means of extortion.

A copy is not an acceptable means of security. Someone could write off a bike and have left the country long before the rental shop knows about it. The copy is worthless in this instance.

Insurance is not an option as no underwriter would accept rental bikes in Thailand as a risk.

A credit card is the only real option and this would only be possible for bigger businesses.

Most of the rental bikes have the name of the shop, or a phone number. Most likely to advertise, but I suspect it's also for "spotters" who ring and inform the shop that the renter has had a accident. I'm sure they get a payment for such information.

I would think very few accidents go unreported to the shop, at the time of the accident.

As the extortion is quite lucrative, there would be a nice payment to a "spotter" for his phone call.

I have never heard of this practice and I would disagree that most rental bikes have phone numbers or shop names. Some do, many don't as many are from very small operations. I can only think of one place in my vicinity that has a name anywhere.

I also think you are wrong about the spotters and payments but as I don't even ride a bike, let alone rent one, I have no idea.

[Skint]

The op is a load of garbage, fines for foreigners and poor old Thai not making money please hand me some tissues...

Thailand needs to get a grip, enforcement from the top down throughout the kingdom.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[lee b]

Why not just rent from Hotels where they are staying. They know who they are, where they come from, check out date etc... I would not trust anyone with my passport, well saying that its not mine.

[Maybole]

After Luigi Maraldi’s passport was given back to the wrong person during a mishap in 2013,

That is a new definition of mishap.

[FritsSikkink]

With a copy off the passport they still can report to guy / girl to the police and immigration. So it is utter BS that they need the reel passport.

[CiaranO]

I think this let again shows the incompetence of the Phuket Police force to enforce the law. They clearly know taking the passport is illegal but yet they will not crack down on it.

Credit card deposits are a good idea but i am pretty sure you have to be a legally registered company to avail of these services. That would involve business's paying actual taxes and be a contributing member of society. All these guys want to do is take , take, take

[steelepulse]

Amazing how it took international scrutiny to make the police appear to do something. Well, not amazing at all.

Can these motorbike renters not get credit card processing to put a deposit on these just as rental car companies do?

Can these people not insure their motorbikes? Surely an insurance company would take on the premiums for this.

[stevenl]

<snip>

Can these people not insure their motorbikes? Surely an insurance company would take on the premiums for this.

Considering the high risk, insurers are not very willing to do this.

[NamKangMan]

@ madmitch

"I have never heard of this practice" - does that mean it does not happen????

"I would disagree that most rental bikes have phone numbers or shop names. Some do, many don't" - you use the word "some" and I use the word "most." So, rental shops do put their phone number and/or shop name on the rental bike. You disagree, but then say "some do."

"I can only think of one place in my vicinity that has a name anywhere." - so, it does happen. You only dispute if it's widely practiced, or not.

"I also think you are wrong about the spotters and payments but as I don't even ride a bike, let alone rent one, I have no idea." - if you have "no idea" how can you "think I am wrong?"

Why do you think the phone number is on the rental bike???? Do you think a tourist will see the bike and ring the number and ask about renting a bike????

I'm quite sure it's there for "spotters." That can be if the bike is abandoned, or involved in an accident.

I'm sure police have used this number many times, when there has been a road fatality, in order to identify the deceased renter/tourist.

[Evilbaz]

Amazing how it took international scrutiny to make the police appear to do something. Well, not amazing at all.

*Can these motorbike renters not get credit card processing to put a deposit on these just as rental car companies do?

*Can these people not insure their motorbikes? Surely an insurance company would take on the premiums for this.

*No unless you are a registered company and most Thai small businesses are not.

*and No - only a small 3rd party insurance available for scooters which does not cover the owner's damage (no comprehensive insurance available at commercial rates).

Time to go to the Kodak shop and get a wallet size laminated card with your passport face page on the front and your visa copy on the back - 60 baht.

I've done it annually for years - much cheaper than 1000 baht fine.

Carrying your actual passport in "entertainment areas" is at risk of theft from the dippers.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Evilbaz

[simon43]

So what do motorbike rental shops do in other countries? How do they avoid illegally taking the passport, but still retaining some 'assurance' iif there is a problem.

I am guessing that cash deposits or credit card deposits are the norm. But as previous posters have commented, credit card swipe machines are only available to legitimate, registered businesses. And it would seem that many of these rental shops are 'cash only' businesses.

Simon

[Suradit69]

C'mon - passports are the property of the issuing country. Many news items have confirmed that foreigners must not surrender their passport and must have passport available for inspection.

"He also raised another problem: that many foreigners who are living in Thailand, for example, Russians, Vietnamese and Indians, are opening motorbike rental shops using Thai nominees."

and what has this got to do with the problem, just yet another foreigner "bashing' exercise by the Thai governemnet officials.

"just yet another foreigner "bashing' exercise by the Thai governemnet officials."

The quote that has your knickers in a knot comes from: "Kamonchai Detpichai, a motorbike renter on Patong Beach"

You think that motor bike renters are "Thai governemnet [sic] officials?"

Why not read what's written properly before doing the usual Thai Visa imagination trip.

What the government official, the police in this case, said was:

Jirapat Pochanapan, head of Kathu Police, advised motorbike renters, “Never keep the passports of tourists because you will be charged with embezzlement of someone else’s possession. If you must keep the passport, you must get the customer to sign to say they are willing to give you the passport for the rental process. This will protect you.”

Police would also be enforcing the rule that all foreigners were required to keep their passport, or at least a copy, on them at all times.

[Suradit69]

With a copy off the passport they still can report to guy / girl to the police and immigration. So it is utter BS that they need the reel passport.

And if by then the renter sold the bike for Baht 5000 and took off for Kuala Lumpur or Bali, how is reporting it to the police or immigrations going to accomplish anything? I doubt very much that Interpol will prioritize tracking down some numbnuts who didn't return a motorbike rental and the stolen bike could be broken up for spare parts before it's tracked down.

[PeVee1st]

Most comments are true in my experience, as for surrendering your Passport, for Australians it says inside that the Passport is not to be given to anyone, except recognised Immigration officials.

As stated in other posts, if these renters actually ran a registered business ( and of course they would then have to pay tax), then they could do what rental companies do worldwide, that is a rental contract and a credit card copy.

Getting of the subject, I do not understand why the abuse of the tax system is tolerated by the government, I mean no bar owner I know pays tax, Im sure the tarts do not pay tax and most businesses do not pay tax.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tingtongfarang]

The fact still remains that handing over your passport is against the agreement made when your government issue such a travel document,

I once knew a guy in kohchang who was in the biz of renting out scooters to tourists, he told there is very little to be made by just renting them out, the real income comes when they crash or have accidents and then extorted for much larger amounts than the repair,

Bike workshops are all instructed not to touch rented scooters when the tourists bring them in.

Edited March 14, 2014 by tingtongfarang