Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[tropo]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

I was doing the border run shuffle before I hit 50. Going back to about 2007/2008, they were counting entries and refusing entry after 4.... then they stopped doing it, then started it again.... Back then there was not a uniform enforcement at all border posts either.

Not everyone reads Thaivisa. If they enforce this very strictly there's going to be chaos at the borders. I'll put money down they're going to ease off and start making more and more exceptions until it's back to "normal".

[mikebike]

Well, it's a good suggestion, especially for people who are living on border runs. Walen didn't make this new rule, they are just informing people there is an alternative, one that would let them learn Thai and in the long run probably save them money. It's a very long thread and no one is going to read through every post, so the occasional update seems very reasonable to me.

I think most negatives were towards rumour-spreading with no factual basis (50-55) btw...

To me it comes across as unsolicited advertising (again, fully understanding that he is paying the site admin for this privilege). Why not start a searchable thread expounding the virtues of the school, its curriculum, and its potential visa benefits? Those curious, or in need of these services would be targeted, rather than randomly cold-calling posters in quasi-relevant threads.

[DP25]

I just finished a teachign contract and my one year visa ended March 25th. I went out and got 30 days (G7) and came back overland. My new tourist visa expires May 24th. I have afligth going out of Thailand on June 2.

What can I do between tourist visa expiration (May 24th) and my flight out (June 2).

As you have a tourist visa you can get an extension from immigration.

He says he did 30 days under G7, so I don't think he has a tourist visa. His post isn't clear. But if he doesn't have a tourist visa, under the new rule, his only option would be to overstay, or pay hundreds of dollars and go to Laos and apply for a tourist visa.

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either. For a Filipino teacher going to Lao for a tourist visa could be half a month salary, while border runs were free for them because of ASEAN.

He says his tourist visa expires on the 24th of may.

As to the rest of your post it is exactly that why this clamp down is needed as the people you describe are clearly not tourists so they should organize a visa to allow them to stay.

People don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa on arrival' and frequently interchange them. He says 30 days under G7, if he had a tourist visa G7 and 30 days is irrelevant. It's unclear what he meant. If he has a visa sticker he can go to the border, if he has a 30 day G7 stamp, he can not. Unless they aren't enforcing the regulation by then, which is quite likely.

The rest of your comment is ridiculous and ignorant. I imagine teachers would love to not be without a visa for several months of the year. It isn't possible, it's border runs or tourist visas for them. Same goes for many people working in Thailand when they change jobs. It's just a fact of dealing with bureaucracy and the speed of getting paperwork done.

[retell]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

Oh, thats because the photograph was in english

[Tanis]

People don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa on arrival' and frequently interchange them. He says 30 days under G7, if he had a tourist visa G7 and 30 days is irrelevant. It's unclear what he meant. If he has a visa sticker he can go to the border, if he has a 30 day G7 stamp, he can not. Unless they aren't enforcing the regulation by then, which is quite likely.

The rest of your comment is ridiculous and ignorant. I imagine teachers would love to not be without a visa for several months of the year. It isn't possible, it's border runs or tourist visas for them. Same goes for many people working in Thailand when they change jobs. It's just a fact of dealing with bureaucracy and the speed of getting paperwork done.

let's not forget about the evil teachers who are terminated from their jobs. We must remember that the Thais are godlike saints incapable of doing any wrong wherefore we lowly peons must wai and give them the utmost respect

[slipperylobster]

"From today visitors can only enter into Thailand via a land border once, after that they will be refused entry to the Kingdom"

Can this be right?

If you are a tourist staying in Thailand and you make a trip to Siam Reap pop back, and then go to Laos for a couple of days, you won't be able to come back into the kingdom??????

How difficult is it to get a Tourist visa. And then you have no problem with this trip.

Four days difficult in PP, Cambodia. Have not tried it lately. That is four nights in a hotel on top of the hotel and food costs. They offered overnight, but wanted a large sum of money (I think 75 dollars).

[notmyself]

People don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa on arrival' and frequently interchange them.

Like you. This is dealing with visa exempt arrivals and not VoA entries.

In fact.... After entering the kingdom, what is the difference between a tourist visa obtained in a home country and a VoA?

[slipperylobster]

Still is someone is on holiday and then decides to want to stay an extra couple of weeks they are screwed. Likewise if you are stayin on the border and want to do a short vacation and then comeback. All for tightening up on those abusing the system, but a lot of genuine tourists are going to be affected. More BS IMO

Where do you get this idea that tourists in any country around the world can just change their minds and easily extend a stay beyond the period set by a country as being the standard tourist length of stay?

Thailand likes tourists who come for a fixed period and spend all the money they have saved for a year then go back again.

That said it shows typical lack of imagination and lack of consultation with those who know the tourist/immigration industry to bring down a curtain with no notice. Would have been much more sensible to introduce a one year period of transition where only one 15/30 day re-entry was permitted.

[shame that Thaivisa seems not to be well-enough connected at the senior level in Thai immigration. Delete it, dont ban me if that is too harsh. I recognise that Thais notoriously don't listen to foreigners]

But, lots of us have done that...legally. Come in and then change your flight....perhaps call home and get more time off...or just kind of like to stay a bit longer. Why not?

Thailand likes money. lots of it. They would like you to stay, ask any of the hotel owners and taxi guys. What part of Thailand were you referring to?

[Nray]

Blimey this will have a negative impact for a lot of businesses. Something to do with Asean maybe?

[Chivas]

Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

Not everyone reads Thaivisa. If they enforce this very strictly there's going to be chaos at the borders. I'll put money down they're going to ease off and start making more and more exceptions until it's back to "normal".

I think "not everyone" is an understatement !!

I wouldn't imagine more than 2% of regular Thailand visitors read Thaivisa or any other Forum. When I put something on FB yesterday was amazed by the sheer numbers who said they were joining TV to read about it.......Many were so called ex pats as well

[uptheos]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

[stevenl]

The other day, I experienced Thai bureaucracy, as described:

Making things difficult, and then withholding crucial info:

I needed to renew my drivers license. It requires 'tabian ban' (proof of residence). I have a yellow 'tabian ban' which has worked for two prior renewals and several other things. Lady at the desk said 'can't use it.' I protested. She turned away, and none of the other workers (heaven forbid) did or said anything to assist me. I had her talk to my Thai attorney on the phone. She didn't budge. Made a 2nd phone call. She didn't budge. The 3rd phone call, she mentioned an option: I could go to the Imm. office and get a signed piece of paper from them. WHY HADN'T SHE OR ANYONE ELSE IN THAT OFFICE MENTIONED THAT OPTION PRIOR?!?! It's a window on to Thai bureaucracy: THEY WANT TO MAKE THINGS DIFFICULT FOR FARANG.

I got the signed paper, and then was charged 400 baht more than Thais, because I have hairy arms and a prominent nose.

I don't see the relevance to this thread with your post but I must ask. the 400b extra you were charged. was this for the licence or the residency certificate ?

It is very relevant because it gives perspective on (at lest part of) the reason the sages at Thai Imm are making things more difficult for tourists to come and enjoy Thailand. Re; the added Bt.400. When it came time to pay for the license renewal, the lady said 105 baht. A second later she grinned and said, "sorry, 505 baht." Normal cost is 105.

It requires proof of residence, not tambien baan, and there are quite a few options for that.

Pricewise, I think it is 605 Baht or (including photos) for the 5 year license.

[DP25]

People don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa on arrival' and frequently interchange them.

Like you. This is dealing with visa exempt arrivals and not VoA entries.

In fact.... After entering the kingdom, what is the difference between a tourist visa obtained in a home country and a VoA?

Yes, I meant visa exempt. The terms are confusing. Including for you too, as a visa on arrival is only for 15 days, as opposed to 60 days for a tourist visa, so there is a clear difference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Thailand#Visa_on_Arrival_.2819.29

Anyway I think that guy meant visa exempt and was calling it tourist visa, since he mentioned G7 and 30 days.

[salamat]

Making the 12 hour bus ride to Vientiane from Chiang Mai, crossing the bridge by bus and obtaining a proper tourist, single entry visa from the Thai embassy in Vientiane; is that still possible? Or, are they saying now, you must 'fly' into Vientiane to obtain a 30 day single entry visa? Can anybody clarify this for me please?

What is a 30 day single entry visa ?

My Philippina GF obtained a single entry tourist visa from Vientiene which allowed her to stay in Thailand for 90 days, she then went to Mah Sai for a 15 day VOA at the border, then extended it for 7 days. Her flight back home to the Philippines is on June 1st. We had planned to travel to Mah Sai for one more 15 day stay and then extend that for 7 days this Tuesday, and that would allow her to stay in Thailand through June 1st. NOW, we cannot travel to Mah Sai ( we went to Green Bus and tried for a refund, they basically laughed in our faces, they did, however, eventually offer us a 10% refund. So kiss that 1500 baht good by).

I'm wondering if she can make the trip to the Thai embassy via mini bus to Vientiane and get another tourist visa. I have heard from some that you must fly out of Thailand after you have a 15 day VOA, others have said she can still get another tourist visa in Vientiane at the embassy even if she travels there overland. Anybody have a guess as to what's the deal?

[true blue]

thanks to all great entertainment,should have more visa rule changes,great reading thanks to immagration thai visa posters,and uncle tom cobely and all,past a hour away reading all the posts,going for a kip now.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either.

Fully understood but... what you don't seem to understand is that the Thai education system has been exploiting NES teachers as a matter of daily business. Being underfunded I sympathize with the authorities predicament BUT the root cause of qualified teachers issues lies with individual schools, agencies and the Ministry of Education exploiting the system by not basing contracts on a annual basis to coincide with employment visa renewal requirements applicable to all sectors of employment. NES teachers are the victims of the Thai english-language education system trying to 'game' their own immigration and visa laws. The system would fail entirely if it weren't for the seeming endless supply of mostly young, native english speakers willing to put themselves through this ordeal to support their lifestyle/travel without fully understanding or researching the situation they are putting themselves in.

More to it than that.

The Thai government doesn't want foreign school teachers getting Thai citizenship.

Employing them 'short-time' nicely solves that little problem.

[stevenl]

As you have a tourist visa you can get an extension from immigration.

He says he did 30 days under G7, so I don't think he has a tourist visa. His post isn't clear. But if he doesn't have a tourist visa, under the new rule, his only option would be to overstay, or pay hundreds of dollars and go to Laos and apply for a tourist visa.

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either. For a Filipino teacher going to Lao for a tourist visa could be half a month salary, while border runs were free for them because of ASEAN.

He says his tourist visa expires on the 24th of may.

As to the rest of your post it is exactly that why this clamp down is needed as the people you describe are clearly not tourists so they should organize a visa to allow them to stay.

People don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa on arrival' and frequently interchange them. He says 30 days under G7, if he had a tourist visa G7 and 30 days is irrelevant. It's unclear what he meant. If he has a visa sticker he can go to the border, if he has a 30 day G7 stamp, he can not. Unless they aren't enforcing the regulation by then, which is quite likely.

The rest of your comment is ridiculous and ignorant. I imagine teachers would love to not be without a visa for several months of the year. It isn't possible, it's border runs or tourist visas for them. Same goes for many people working in Thailand when they change jobs. It's just a fact of dealing with bureaucracy and the speed of getting paperwork done.

A visa on arrival is a visa for tourists, therefor a tourist visa.

You mean 'people don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa exempt entry''.

Edit:just noticed you already acknowledged the terminology was not correct.

[uptheos]

thanks to all great entertainment,should have more visa rule changes,great reading thanks to immagration thai visa posters,and uncle tom cobely and all,past a hour away reading all the posts,going for a kip now.

Tom Pearce, Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davy, Dan'l Whiddon & Harry Hawke,

[stevenl]

Making the 12 hour bus ride to Vientiane from Chiang Mai, crossing the bridge by bus and obtaining a proper tourist, single entry visa from the Thai embassy in Vientiane; is that still possible? Or, are they saying now, you must 'fly' into Vientiane to obtain a 30 day single entry visa? Can anybody clarify this for me please?

What is a 30 day single entry visa ?

My Philippina GF obtained a single entry tourist visa from Vientiene which allowed her to stay in Thailand for 90 days, she then went to Mah Sai for a 15 day VOA at the border, then extended it for 7 days. Her flight back home to the Philippines is on June 1st. We had planned to travel to Mah Sai for one more 15 day stay and then extend that for 7 days this Tuesday, and that would allow her to stay in Thailand through June 1st. NOW, we cannot travel to Mah Sai ( we went to Green Bus and tried for a refund, they basically laughed in our faces, they did, however, eventually offer us a 10% refund. So kiss that 1500 baht good by).

I'm wondering if she can make the trip to the Thai embassy via mini bus to Vientiane and get another tourist visa. I have heard from some that you must fly out of Thailand after you have a 15 day VOA, others have said she can still get another tourist visa in Vientiane at the embassy even if she travels there overland. Anybody have a guess as to what's the deal?

How she travels to the embassy is irrelevant.

[impulse]

For me, prior to turning 50 I ran a business I did not particularly want, BUT I made it one I was very interested in as a hobby - restoring old, classic motorbikes. Found my pigeon-hole relatively easily...

We got a winner. Creativity and initiative.

Outside the box, and perfectly legal. Probably had some fun doing it, too.

Good stuff.

[salamat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Making the 12 hour bus ride to Vientiane from Chiang Mai, crossing the bridge by bus and obtaining a proper tourist, single entry visa from the Thai embassy in Vientiane; is that still possible? Or, are they saying now, you must 'fly' into Vientiane to obtain a 30 day single entry visa? Can anybody clarify this for me please?

A proper tourist visa from the Embassy like you write is 60 days

You are correct. THe extension was for 30 days - my mistake. Can one still travel to Vientiane via bus and obtain another proper 60 day visa? After the 60 + 30 days my gf traveled once to mah sai and obtained the 15 day voa, now she needs the overland trip to Vientiane for another 60 days. Will the Thai embassy in Vientiane grant her one of these tourist visas after a voa from Mah Sai?

[thaibeachlovers]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

PS. Just thinking about it, and if the number of tourists doing back to back runs is as big as I think it is, the loss of income for tourist dependent areas might be significant enough to cause a backlash amongst Thais losing income due to this newly enforced rule. If that happens, wonder how long this rule will last.

[chrisinth]

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Tanis, on 10 May 2014 - 18:34, said:Quote

Soutpeel, on 10 May 2014 - 16:44, said:Quote

nothing to do with being evil......the visa wavier system is intended for tourists from certain countries, not for living and working in Thailand, one suspects the 'English professors" have had a good run, now its time to pay the piper....

if you are living/working here long term do it properly and don't take the p*ss out the system and get some sort of visa...

I've worked here in Thailand for nearly seven years and these border runs have saved my bacon several times due to the incompetence of agencies and schools trying to process work permits and teacher's license. The ones that will be most affected by this dumb rule enforcement are those who are trying to work here legit. What about those who are fired by their school for whatever reason? What recourse do these teachers have other than packing up their bags and going back to their home country? I just love the double standards that Thais employ against foreigners and I love their apologists. Fortunately, I am going back to America next week.

The ones who have had their work permits cancelled still have the option of leaving the country and getting a tourist visa or, simply fly out/fly in to tide them over for an extra 30 days.

The same as they would have to do before the new rules if on an extension of stay based on their work permit. If they have a multi-entry non-O, then they have no problems.

If said teachers were working, having to do border runs to remain in the country, then they ain't doing it right in the first place.........

[ovenman]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

I would think that both Mae Sai and Tachileik depend mostly on the Thai-Burmese cross-border trade for their prosperity. Considering that most traditional visa runners spend the absolute least possible amount of time in either towm, I doubt that their collective contribution to the local economy is all that much.

[thaibeachlovers]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

I would think that both Mae Sai and Tachileik depend mostly on the Thai-Burmese cross-border trade for their prosperity. Considering that most traditional visa runners spend the absolute least possible amount of time in either towm, I doubt that their collective contribution to the local economy is all that much.

Well, I guess we'll be finding out in the next month or so.

Given that there is nowhere much to go on the Burmese side, I'd say the market there benefits a lot. Even I bought stuff there, plus I stayed at Top North hotel a night.

[DrTuner]

Don't know why Thailand doesn't just charge $20-40 for 15/30 days, and cash in.

Yeah, a 30d visa for 40$ would likely solve a lot of issues. Make it an E-Visa and everybody ought to be happy.

Of course, too rational and modern, not going to happen.

[mikebike]

More to it than that.

The Thai government doesn't want foreign school teachers getting Thai citizenship.

Employing them 'short-time' nicely solves that little problem.

Legally obtaining Thai Citizenship has no relevance whatsoever. The rules are difficult and circuitous and can take a decade to complete, and are the same for everyone, teachers, divers, entrepreneurs, husbands, whomever. Westerners looking for actual Thai Citizenship are incredibly rare. Residence is a different matter. Thais do not seem to have any issue with foreigners establishing residence if and when they qualify for a visa to support it ,whether you are a teacher or employed in some other sector - foreign chefs suffer much the same issues. Foreign teachers however are routinely exploited by the Thai education system simply because there is an endless supply of them, unlike qualified chefs.

[gangrel]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

I would think that both Mae Sai and Tachileik depend mostly on the Thai-Burmese cross-border trade for their prosperity. Considering that most traditional visa runners spend the absolute least possible amount of time in either towm, I doubt that their collective contribution to the local economy is all that much.

Don't under-estimate the tremendous financial impact of their use of the Duty Free booze shop there.

Those 100 baht bottles of Chinese wine add up quickly and the expenditures likely exceed the value of all the Eastern Seaboard industrial complexes combined.

[mikebike]

A visa on arrival is a visa for tourists, therefor a tourist visa.

You mean 'people don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa exempt entry''.

Edit:just noticed you already acknowledged the terminology was not correct.

I've always thought it was fairly simple for most western nationals.

If you are going to travel to Thailand for the purpose of tourism and you obtain a visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in your country of origin, or any other country (other than Thailand of course) along the way, you have a (ta-da!) TOURIST VISA and all the privileges bestowed upon it, such as extension.

If you arrive at the airport WITHOUT obtaining TOURIST VISA from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in another country, you have a VISA EXEMPT entry and no privileges whatsoever.

Visa-on-arrival is simply a misnomer referring to VISA EXEMPT entry.

[ovenman]

This will be a severe hardship for many Thai mini-bus drivers.

Up in Mae Sai, I'd say the entire town ( on the border ) depends on visa runners for it's prosperity. As would Green Line bus company to a minor extent, but they will be feeling it too.

Not forgetting the market on the Burmese side.

Wonder if they'll be putting up the border fees to compensate for loss of income?

I would think that both Mae Sai and Tachileik depend mostly on the Thai-Burmese cross-border trade for their prosperity. Considering that most traditional visa runners spend the absolute least possible amount of time in either towm, I doubt that their collective contribution to the local economy is all that much.

Don't under-estimate the tremendous financial impact of their use of the Duty Free booze shop there.

Those 100 baht bottles of Chinese wine add up quickly and the expenditures likely exceed the value of all the Eastern Seaboard industrial complexes combined.

I stand humbly corrected.