Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[LivinLOS]

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

[retell]

Anybody with a multy entry o visa did the out,in at savannakhet?

I know this is for the tourists but one never knows how the immigration interpred the rules

[ubonjoe]

Anybody with a multy entry o visa did the out,in at savannakhet?

I know this is for the tourists but one never knows how the immigration interpred the rules

Don't worry about it there is no way they could misinterpret it. It is simple visa no problem no visa there could be a problem.

[retell]

Anybody with a multy entry o visa did the out,in at savannakhet?

I know this is for the tourists but one never knows how the immigration interpred the rules

Don't worry about it there is no way they could misinterpret it. It is simple visa no problem no visa there could be a problem.

Ok thanks , my 90 days stamp ends on 29-7 my yearvisa on 2-8 so will do the out in before or on 29-7 and will get almost 3 months extra before have to get another year visa , did many times like that never a problem

[seancbk]

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

60K for a visa to allow someone who wants to live a year in Thailand, seems reasonable. Its certainly a hell of a lot more than they are getting now.

[LivinLOS]

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

60K for a visa to allow someone who wants to live a year in Thailand, seems reasonable. Its certainly a hell of a lot more than they are getting now.

Visa sure.. But then income tax, social security, etc on top no ??

I mean you cant expect to be resident somewhere and not pay income tax on money earnt while your incountry... One goes hand in hand with the other..

[DrTuner]

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

Hmm. So let's say an IT freelancer, working for companies outside Thailand nets ~160k/month. They'd take 40k/month, which is 480k/y. I assume that doesn't include taxes, so all included you could count ~50% of your net being sliced off the top ?

I'd still say go somewhere else where you can operate a single proprietor without extra costs incurred, not Thailand ..

[theGadabout]

Quick update. We did the Pattaya -> Cambodia border run today with absolutely zero problems. There were probably 200 foreigners there of all nationalities and not 1 person was hassled or turned away. We extended 30 days with no issues what so ever.

[ukrules]

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

60K for a visa to allow someone who wants to live a year in Thailand, seems reasonable. Its certainly a hell of a lot more than they are getting now.

Visa sure.. But then income tax, social security, etc on top no ??

I mean you cant expect to be resident somewhere and not pay income tax on money earnt while your incountry... One goes hand in hand with the other..

There's two questions that spring to mind :

1 - How much does the 'average' Thai worker earn

2 - How much tax, social security contributions do they make and what benefits do they receive for this

The answers to both questions are pretty low.

Paying 5000 Baht per month for a visa would actually put you in a position where you're contributing more to society than a lot of Thai's are.

Note - this obviously excludes the well educated, wealthy business owners and professional Thai's who work in the various professions. I'm talking about the average run of the mill job like working in a manufacturing facility. Think of a salary range between the minimum wage and double to triple the minimum wage for Thais. Who would contribute more even on a mere 5000 Baht a month visa fee ?

[balo]

Quick update. We did the Pattaya -> Cambodia border run today with absolutely zero problems. There were probably 200 foreigners there of all nationalities and not 1 person was hassled or turned away. We extended 30 days with no issues what so ever.

Try another run in September and report back, it won't be the same, I can promise you that.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JB300]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

I had to get a new one for my wife once, which proved very useful, but I only did it because I accidentally put it in the washing machine, and it didn't come out all that clean.

A new Australian passport is easy to get - it just costs more each time you lose it, until they start asking lots of questions when it starts to look suspicious - maybe your 3rd time. They have a price list up on the wall at the consulate. I certainly wouldn't want to go through all the trouble of getting new Philippine passport though - that's a real hassle and takes at least a month.

Getting a new Philippine passport is a pain in the backside plus gets your Philippina Princes a trip to immigration office on the way out of RPI (which is getting harder & harder to do, even with me accompanying her on a visit to stay with me in Singapore).

Getting a new UK one isn't much easier, needs to be done in Hong Kong & IIRC it's approx s$500 (roughly £250).

Back to the subject of visas for under 50s, I'm also one of the lucky ones that are under 50 (just, I'm 48 & 1/4), fortunate enough to have enough savings/passive income to retire (approx twice the monthly 65,000 thb requirement, inflation catered for as much as I can) but I just have to accept that I can't do so (retire) in Thailand until I'm 50.

I can in Philippines (it's 35) &would need to wait an extra 5 years in Indonesia (It's 55).

Oh well, can't have everything

Edited May 15, 2014 by JB300

[ukrules]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

I had to get a new one for my wife once, which proved very useful, but I only did it because I accidentally put it in the washing machine, and it didn't come out all that clean.

A new Australian passport is easy to get - it just costs more each time you lose it, until they start asking lots of questions when it starts to look suspicious - maybe your 3rd time. They have a price list up on the wall at the consulate. I certainly wouldn't want to go through all the trouble of getting new Philippine passport though - that's a real hassle and takes at least a month.

Getting a new Philippine passport is a pain in the backside plus gets your Philippina Princes a trip to immigration office on the way out of RPI (which is getting harder & harder to do, even with me accompanying her on a visit to stay with me in Singapore).

Getting a new UK one isn't much easier, needs to be done in Hong Kong & IIRC it's approx s$500 (roughly £250).

Back to the subject of visas for under 50s, I'm also one of the lucky ones that are under 50 (just, I'm 48 & 1/4), fortunate enough to have enough savings/passive income to retire (approx twice the monthly 65,000 thb requirement, inflation catered for as much as I can) but I just have to accept that I can't do so (retire) in Thailand until I'm 50.

I can in Philippines (it's 35) &would need to wait an extra 5 years in Indonesia (It's 55).

Oh well, can't have everything

I don't know how true this is but someone told me the following a couple of months ago, maybe he got it completely wrong but here goes anyway :

He said that it's possible to get a retirement visa when you're only 49. Something to do with your 49th Birthday actually being the 50th time you've been alive on your birthday, so you are in your 50th year so to speak.

I'm only 41 so I didn't give it much thought but it could be worth looking into in your case.

Maybe it's a case of how the rules are interpreted by the officer in question at the time and who knows, perhaps a 'fee' was paid.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has ever heard of a retirement visa being issued to a 49 year old before though.

[tropo]

Can any body try and get a handle on the number of people who may be affected by this ??

How many people might be living here and reliant on back to back and tourist visas. ??

On my trips up to Maisai / Tachileck I reckon about 300 westerners cross that border every day, but it could be double that.

Must be more than that for border crossings near Pattaya.

Any informed guesses as to how many people affected by these new rules ???

Not that I have any first hand knowledge (as I'm not a teacher), but my friends who are say that almost every school has a couple of Filipina teachers who do border runs every 15 days and that all those girls will be stuffed as the schools do not get them work permits.

I'm guessing this new ruling will cause issues for thousands of people living here and relying on visa runs.

A filipina friend of mine just mentioned the same thing. There are many of them who do the in out visa exempt and tourist visa thing. Feel terrible for them.

Don't feel that bad. It was never an unlimited thing even before this crackdown. Most of those Filipino in-and-out'ers are working illegally and their boss pays for the border run.

[nidieunimaitre]

I can't be bothered to go through 41 pages, so I might be repeating the obvious question:

A FINAL CRACKDOWN etc, is that something similar to a final ultimate victory day endloesung (pardon my German) - these things are trending in BKK I hear.....

[mikebike]

I don't know how true this is but someone told me the following a couple of months ago, maybe he got it completely wrong but here goes anyway :

He said that it's possible to get a retirement visa when you're only 49. Something to do with your 49th Birthday actually being the 50th time you've been alive on your birthday, so you are in your 50th year so to speak.

I'm only 41 so I didn't give it much thought but it could be worth looking into in your case.

Maybe it's a case of how the rules are interpreted by the officer in question at the time and who knows, perhaps a 'fee' was paid.

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has ever heard of a retirement visa being issued to a 49 year old before though.

Not true, unless the officer has trouble with dates... From personal experience.

[hawker9000]

Quick update. We did the Pattaya -> Cambodia border run today with absolutely zero problems. There were probably 200 foreigners there of all nationalities and not 1 person was hassled or turned away. We extended 30 days with no issues what so ever.

Try another run in September and report back, it won't be the same, I can promise you that.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Maybe so, maybe not. One thing for sure. Actual reports from the border like gadabout's are worth a hundred of the gratuitous comments, predictions, warnings and editorials. 'Have to applaud the efforts of those like ubonjoe who do yeoman service cleaning up the misinformation and wild speculation that regularly finds its way here as well.

[Tanis]

I was reading somewhere else that Pol Maj Gen Chatchai said The clampdown does not affect holders of non-immigrant visas or holders of tourist visas.

absolute hogwash. Among the ones most adversely affected by these changes are legit teachers who are not trying to abuse the system. Here are a few examples of that happening

1: schools being too lazy or too incompetent to fill out the correct paperwork. Incompetency on the part of the school can be somewhat mitigated by experienced teachers. Laziness........ good luck!.

2: Teacher's license / Khrusapha. Many assumed that the death knell of the teaching industry would be the implementation of this useless license. They were wrong. This does not change for one second the complexity of obtaining one of these license if you are new to the country and do not possess teaching creds from your home country. I saw many good intentioned teachers resort to tourist visas/border visas while waiting for the application to be processed. I strongly doubt that bkk has gotten any better at processing these.

3: Termination/quit. Some people have experienced a wonderful time with wonderful schools whist here in Thailand. A good deal of others (dare I say a majority?) have experienced working with a horrible employer. Many have been terminated from their job or decided to quit on their own accord. What then? Some have suggested that teachers go to the nearest consulate and get a 60 day tourist visa. Speaking as a person who lived in Hatyai for a number of years and frequented Panang this is not possible. The Penang consulate will not issue a tourist visa to those who previously had a Non Imm B visa. I have personally known two teachers both of whom have lived in Thailand for a number of years and had Thai wives/familes, who were rejected a tourist visa in Penang because they were coming off of a Non-Imm B visa. Also if I am not mistaken, I saw a thread on Thaivisa addressing this issue not a long time ago.

4: Contracts starting in May and ending in March the following year. What options do teachers have for March/April if they are not allowed to get tourist visas?

The key word is In-Out.

Like I said in another thread. People are realy kidding themselves if they think that they will not be affected on a multiple entry non imm or tourist visa. Visa runs on multi-entry visas are not in the spirit of immigration policy. The authorities didn't create multiple entries so people could walk over the bridge and turn back around.

People on multi-entry visas will likely be the next hit.

agreed!

Not that I have any first hand knowledge (as I'm not a teacher), but my friends who are say that almost every school has a couple of Filipina teachers who do border runs every 15 days and that all those girls will be stuffed as the schools do not get them work permits.

I'm guessing this new ruling will cause issues for thousands of people living here and relying on visa runs.

Many different issues could be at play here for Filipino teachers being consistently forced to do 15 day border runs some of which I addressed above.

.

[ubonjoe]

I have seen no reports of anybody being denied a tourist visa because they had a B visa before applying for it.

I don't know where you got your info but it is incorrect.

[retell]

I have seen no reports of anybody being denied a tourist visa because they had a B visa before applying for it.

I don't know where you got your info but it is incorrect.

My own experience is,

After beeing too late with renewal of my b visa in 2007 i could only get a tourist visa i penang

[Tanis]

Quick update. We did the Pattaya -> Cambodia border run today with absolutely zero problems. There were probably 200 foreigners there of all nationalities and not 1 person was hassled or turned away. We extended 30 days with no issues what so ever.

Try another run in September and report back, it won't be the same, I can promise you that.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Maybe so, maybe not. One thing for sure. Actual reports from the border like gadabout's are worth a hundred of the gratuitous comments, predictions, warnings and editorials. 'Have to applaud the efforts of those like ubonjoe who do yeoman service cleaning up the misinformation and wild speculation that regularly finds its way here as well.

Well I just left Thailand the other day and I had an interesting encounter at immigration at Suvarnabhumi. My wife (Filipina and who had worked in Thailand for 9 years) and I queued up in the same line and she went through with no problems whatsoever. For 25 minutes (I counted) they scrutinized every page of American passport like I was some sort of criminal. They did not know what to do with me since I had a number of tourist/border visas in addition to my many expired non-immigrant b visas. It should be noted that these two were probably new since they wore yellow signs around their necks stating that there were "trainee". Their frustration with me grew every time I said "nit noy pasa Thai" even though I understood them quite well. They then called over their supervisor who took me over to her desk. She then proceeded to ask me a number of questions about my stay in Thailand and more specifically if It was currently working in Thailand. I kept my answers short and simple: no, I am not working. my contract expired in Feb and I had done 3 border runs since then It should be noted that I do have a number of border runs/tourist visa over the years for various of reasons in additions to my non imm b visas. She finally gave up and waved me through. Thankfully I came early because I spent 45 minutes at immigration. gah

[LivinLOS]

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

Hmm. So let's say an IT freelancer, working for companies outside Thailand nets ~160k/month. They'd take 40k/month, which is 480k/y. I assume that doesn't include taxes, so all included you could count ~50% of your net being sliced off the top ?

I'd still say go somewhere else where you can operate a single proprietor without extra costs incurred, not Thailand ..

The 25% covers everything.. races, social security, visa, vat processing at zero rate, work permit, everything.

If you earn over about 9k USD a month they need some more for tax. But under that they do it as a total flat rate.

Plus your tax record can be used to offset any home country taxes.

25% to be totally legal.. that's not much compared to the west.

[LivinLOS]

As many have already said, the rules here are out of date for the modern connected world, but I'm not holding my breath for the Thai Immigration to start allowing Digital Nomads to live here and work online.

It would be superb if they had an annual quota for these digital nomads. Allow say 10,000 solo entrepreneurs that work online to get a work permit and a valid visa each year. The application process could require that the applicant show x number of years of website / traffic / revenue or something..... The fee could be a flat fee. 60,000 baht per year wouldn't be too bad and that would add 600 million baht a year to the Immigration coffers.

60k a year ?? You want to pay 5k a month TOTAL ??? Income tax, social security, visa prep, everything ?? Ohh the LOLs.

What you say is easy, its not hard to get a b visa and work permit.. I know a company that will do it all for you, the whole works, process your accounts, tax, visa and work permit you will be fully legal. No fear, no visa runs, long stay perfect.

They charge 25% of your net. Pretty damn cheap to be legal IMO.

PM me for their contact info.

60K for a visa to allow someone who wants to live a year in Thailand, seems reasonable. Its certainly a hell of a lot more than they are getting now.

Visa sure.. But then income tax, social security, etc on top no ??

I mean you cant expect to be resident somewhere and not pay income tax on money earnt while your incountry... One goes hand in hand with the other..

There's two questions that spring to mind :

1 - How much does the 'average' Thai worker earn

2 - How much tax, social security contributions do they make and what benefits do they receive for this

The answers to both questions are pretty low.

Paying 5000 Baht per month for a visa would actually put you in a position where you're contributing more to society than a lot of Thai's are.

Note - this obviously excludes the well educated, wealthy business owners and professional Thai's who work in the various professions. I'm talking about the average run of the mill job like working in a manufacturing facility. Think of a salary range between the minimum wage and double to triple the minimum wage for Thais. Who would contribute more even on a mere 5000 Baht a month visa fee ?

But Farang minimum wages are what 5x Thai ones. You cannot legally work here on 'average' Thai wage levels. Legally working here means paying a tax level same as high end Thai workers.

[Tanis]

I have seen no reports of anybody being denied a tourist visa because they had a B visa before applying for it.

I don't know where you got your info but it is incorrect.

just spoke with one of my friends and he referred me to the thread that he started:

He was denied a double entry 60 day tourist visa off of a non-imm b visa. Sadly, I don't have the contact details of my other friend. I know that penaang can be quite picky at times. around jan of 2012 I got salmonella and I was force to quit. Got two 60 day tourist visas in Penang. May of 2012 I had all the paperwork together to get a 90 day single entry non imm b visa and they nearly denied it. My wife had to fax me a copy of my hospital bill and doctor's note before they even believed me. anyway, i stand corrected.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mario2008
link to o other forum removed

[ubonjoe]

I have seen no reports of anybody being denied a tourist visa because they had a B visa before applying for it.

I don't know where you got your info but it is incorrect.

just spoke with one of my friends and he referred me to the thread that he started:

He was denied a double entry 60 day tourist visa off of a non-imm b visa. Sadly, I don't have the contact details of my other friend. I know that penaang can be quite picky at times. around jan of 2012 I got salmonella and I was force to quit. Got two 60 day tourist visas in Penang. May of 2012 I had all the paperwork together to get a 90 day single entry non imm b visa and they nearly denied it. My wife had to fax me a copy of my hospital bill and doctor's note before they even believed me. anyway, i stand corrected.

Penang as never issued 2 entry tourist visas as far as I know. He might of gotten a single entry instead of a 2 entry.

You are writing abut something that happened 2 years ago. I cannot see any consulate denying a non-b as long as all the paperwork is in order.

[Maestro]

Continued here:

Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions