Thai farmers demand remaining rice scheme payments

[webfact]

Farmers demand remaining rice scheme payments

BANGKOK, 21 May 2014, (NNT) -The President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak, advised the media after the army imposed Martial Law, that if a new government is installed, it must make paying off the remaining rice pledge debt to farmers, one of its top priorities.

He also urged a new government to draft a policy to regulate the price of 2014 off season rice, leaving the decision of whether or not to continue the rice mortgage scheme, to the administration.

However Mr. Vichien said the price of rice should not fall below 11,000 baht per ton, citing the current production cost of 9,000 baht per ton. Mr. Vichien, claimed at the moment the price of rice is in the range of of 5,800 - 6,000 baht per ton.

Meanwhile, Prasit Boonchouy, leader of the Thai Rice Farmers' Association, expressed his optimism regarding the possibility of a new government being established, saying that such a development would change the nation for the better.

He shared Mr. Vichien’s opinion on the continuation of the rice pledging scheme, and suggested a new administration come up with measures to prevent the program affecting the rice market.


-- NNT 2014-05-21

[kurnell]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

[Bangmod]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

Why does Chalerm still needs to be paid, and Yingluck, they are out of jobs....

Edited May 21, 2014 by Bangmod

[Bangmod]

It is time that the Army is going to round up some corrupt grave diggers from all sides, hold them upside down, take them inside out until the last penny has fallen out of their pockets, and redistribute their wealth to all the people who have fallen victim to all their schemes.

Let these people start living on the streets, like they have done to others, and never allow the rich become politicians, they only look for ways to fill their pockets over the backs of the hard working people.

This could and should stop now.

[thesetat2013]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

You must mean those rich ammart ministers and gov workers that lost??? billions of baht in this scheme

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[northernjohn]

Interesting. The farmers raise all kinds of a fuss about getting paid even drive their tractors to Bangkok for a one day protest get to Bangkok say nothing turn around and dive home. No more protests.

Martial Law comes along and they know they do not have to worry about the red shirts as the Army will protect them and now they are speaking up again.

Say's a lot about the red shirts lack of morals. Threatening poor farmers. Well they are now under the heal of the Army and well aware of what the Army can and will do so they are backing off on intimidation.

[rabas]

BANGKOK, 21 May 2014, (NNT) -The President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak, advised the media after the army imposed Martial Law, that if a new government is installed, it must make paying off the remaining rice pledge debt to farmers, one of its top priorities.

He also urged a new government to draft a policy to regulate the price of 2014 off season rice, leaving the decision of whether or not to continue the rice mortgage scheme, to the administration.

It looks like farmers would like a new government, and they have given up on the Shins. Next election should be interesting.

[issanaus]

Interesting. The farmers raise all kinds of a fuss about getting paid even drive their tractors to Bangkok for a one day protest get to Bangkok say nothing turn around and dive home. No more protests.

Martial Law comes along and they know they do not have to worry about the red shirts as the Army will protect them and now they are speaking up again.

Say's a lot about the red shirts lack of morals. Threatening poor farmers. Well they are now under the heal of the Army and well aware of what the Army can and will do so they are backing off on intimidation.

2 days before ML some farmer friends were approached by their "informal lenders" who were asking people if they were going to BKK to protest. They were calling in their 10 baht loans (10% per month) if they were not going.

[seajae]

yes, pay these people out then cancel the scheme totally before the country goes down the gurgler.

[fab4]

Interesting. The farmers raise all kinds of a fuss about getting paid even drive their tractors to Bangkok for a one day protest get to Bangkok say nothing turn around and dive home. No more protests.

Martial Law comes along and they know they do not have to worry about the red shirts as the Army will protect them and now they are speaking up again.

Say's a lot about the red shirts lack of morals. Threatening poor farmers. Well they are now under the heal of the Army and well aware of what the Army can and will do so they are backing off on intimidation.

It actually says more about your political bias and logic.

[fab4]

This being the guy who was stirring up the farmers on behalf of the PDRC and also the guy who turned down the governments proposed reduction in the rice pricing pledge from 15,000 baht to 12,000 baht because they could not make any profit at that price. So what were they doing before the rice subsidy upped the price?

President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak earlier made an announcement that farmers would not accept the Government's decision to reduce the pledging price for rice with 15% water content to 12,000 baht per ton, as they could not make any profit with that price.

Edited May 21, 2014 by fab4

[ramrod711]

BANGKOK, 21 May 2014, (NNT) -The President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak, advised the media after the army imposed Martial Law, that if a new government is installed, it must make paying off the remaining rice pledge debt to farmers, one of its top priorities.

Agreed, the money was promised, the new government must pay.

However Mr. Vichien said the price of rice should not fall below 11,000 baht per ton, citing the current production cost of 9,000 baht per ton. Mr. Vichien, claimed at the moment the price of rice is in the range of of 5,800 - 6,000 baht per ton.

The farmers must learn that Thailand does not exist in a vacuum. Kittirat told the farmers at least one year before the government failed to meet its obligation, that they could not afford to pay the promised price. The farmers threatened to strike and the government continued to promise a price they could not pay. No matter what the farmers are promised, the world market sets the price. If the government decides to subsidize the farmers the electorate should know what that price will be, and the farmers have to know that they have not earned the money they are paid.

[djjamie]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

Edited May 21, 2014 by djjamie

[Bluespunk]

"He also urged a new government to draft a policy to regulate the price of 2014 off season rice, leaving the decision of whether or not to continue the rice mortgage scheme, to the administration."

Dream on. The rice scheme is dead. No govt is going to reintroduce such a colossally inept piece of economic stupidity again. Market prices from now on i should imagine..

[h90]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

Why does Chalerm still needs to be paid, and Yingluck, they are out of jobs....

Yingluck is the same in or out as before. She was Thaksins sister. Now Thaksins long time manager is doing it. So there isn't much change.

[h90]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

It makes sense to pay above the market price for organic production or some environment friendly productions. Or helping farmer who try something new, that may not work as good as they thought.

Or give credits for machines that increases productivity. (and don't give credits for new mobile phones like Thaksin did).

But paying extra for low to medium class rice is wrong.

[ShannonT]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

Comparing Vietnam salaries with Thailand salaries is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

I happen to know a big rice producer in Vietnam personally and I know what he pays his workers. Officially, Vietnam has a GDP of $4000 while Thailand is at $9900. But actual Vietnam workers make much much less than Thai workers. A Thai person could not survive in Thailand with a Vietnam salary, so it's also impossible to sell Thai rice at the same price of Vietnam rice because the production costs are much higher.

Get it?

[robblok]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

Why would people paying income tax and vat have to subsidize rice farmers ? This is not about the rich, this is uneconomical why pay 50% or more above market value ? 50% .... that is a crazy amount of subsidy.

You me and other paying vat, plus office workers paying income tax are paying for this... crazy.

Give the real poor farmers some help but not the rich ones and don't base it on production but on how much land they have and cap that at a maximum. Then you only help the real poor farmers not the ones that are richer and can change crops ect.

[Gunna]

Look, somebody has to pay to keep the elite in their Lambo's and Ferraris so I'm afraid that the farmers will just have to tighten their belts after years of luxury.

Why does Chalerm still needs to be paid, and Yingluck, they are out of jobs....

Now I know what Thaksin drives around Dubai in.

[robblok]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

Comparing Vietnam salaries with Thailand salaries is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

I happen to know a big rice producer in Vietnam personally and I know what he pays his workers. Officially, Vietnam has a GDP of $4000 while Thailand is at $9900. But actual Vietnam workers make much much less than Thai workers. A Thai person could not survive in Thailand with a Vietnam salary, so it's also impossible to sell Thai rice at the same price of Vietnam rice because the production costs are much higher.

Get it?

If what you say is true then they should stop producing rice because they can't compete with Vietnam.

Why should the farmer receive a handout and keep doing something others can do cheaper. Crazy supporting something that will never ever be viable. Less rice.. prices will go up then it will become viable again for some farmers.. right now not. Let the market take care of it.

Remember its the people paying vat and income tax that pay for this and they are not all rich.

Give the poor Thai farmers some money to switch over to something else and give them some money based on how much land they own (excluding rich farmers). Help them out a bit but change because as you said they cant compete with Vietnam.

Please let the next government be honest.. not lying like the reds and put these subsidies for farmers at cost price instead of no price no cost what the last government did. Reason why they did it was else they overspend too much on paper.

So if you want to help the farmers then take money away from schools or old people or hospitals, because you can only spend the money once. I think a tax increase on income tax will never be accepted (and it should not). The last government purposely put the cost of helping the farmers on zero while it cost billions and billions so they would not have to cut somewhere else and be less popular.

[p_brownstone]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

Comparing Vietnam salaries with Thailand salaries is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

I happen to know a big rice producer in Vietnam personally and I know what he pays his workers. Officially, Vietnam has a GDP of $4000 while Thailand is at $9900. But actual Vietnam workers make much much less than Thai workers. A Thai person could not survive in Thailand with a Vietnam salary, so it's also impossible to sell Thai rice at the same price of Vietnam rice because the production costs are much higher.

Get it?

I don't think Salaries were mentioned except in the overall concept of "Production Costs".

In any case "Production Cost" is totally irrelevant - you can't go to a Buyer and say "OK, I know Vietnamese rice is cheaper than Thai rice but our Production Cost is higher, therefore please pay more for our rice".

Get it?

Patrick

[djjamie]

After the Shin lead govt's have pumped 1.5 trillion into the rice industry and the farmers still cannot produce rice independently of the government for a profit while 100 km away in the same soil Vietnam can produce rice at 5000 Baht a rai and produce 3 times the yield that Thai's do on that 1 rai then that is a waste of 1.5 trillion baht and there is no excuse for Thailand farmers to produce rice above the cost of market value.

Talk about dangling a carrot ballot card in front of a donkey voter. Until the farmers can get out of this poverty cycle where they are reliant on the PTP to survive then the PTP could abuse power, ignore 14 principles of democracy, rubbish the public, threaten the opposition voters, intimidate the courts, treat all voters with contempt, assassinate opponents of the regime and bomb and shoot opposition supporters and they will still be voted into power. After seeing the farmers and the desperation and them having to live hand to mouth I would vote PTP if they offered 43% above market value even if they did the above atrocities. I would have no choice.

Don't regulate the price. Empower the farmers with education and knowledge like they did in Vietnam. 1.5 trillion baht would go along why to funding the infrastructure scheme.

That is why reform is needed.

Comparing Vietnam salaries with Thailand salaries is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

I happen to know a big rice producer in Vietnam personally and I know what he pays his workers. Officially, Vietnam has a GDP of $4000 while Thailand is at $9900. But actual Vietnam workers make much much less than Thai workers. A Thai person could not survive in Thailand with a Vietnam salary, so it's also impossible to sell Thai rice at the same price of Vietnam rice because the production costs are much higher.

Get it?

I revel in these unsubstantiated claims.

It seems everyone on this forum knows someone very important or someone that directly relates to the argument at hand to defend there point of view.

Most ridiculous thing you ever heard? Of course it is it because it does not suit your agenda.

I don't care about GDP. I don't care about salary. That is even more reason to invest in education and sustainability then. Thank you Shannon for inadvertently backing up my argument.

Vietnam govt invested in sustainable education programs that allowed the farmers to produce rice 3 times more efficiently than Thailand. There yield is 3 times higher per rai. 3 times Shannon.

Time to bring some sustainability into rice farming to allow the voters to NOT be held hostage at the ballot box and more importantly so they are not dependent on anyone. PTP would hate it. Loan sharks would hate it. I cannot see why you don't agree that education to improve the farmers output, thus profits is a bad thing. Maybe if Jatuporn mentioned it you would be all over it like "white on rice". No pun intended. What is better Shannon. 280kg per rai or 780kg per rai…Do rice farmers not deserve education to allow them to produce that? Would you rather keep the carrot dangled to give a perceived look that you are actually helping the farmers instead of really actually helping the farmers.

Reform is critical for farmers prosperity.

Edited May 21, 2014 by djjamie

[Piichai]

Interesting. The farmers raise all kinds of a fuss about getting paid even drive their tractors to Bangkok for a one day protest get to Bangkok say nothing turn around and dive home. No more protests.

Martial Law comes along and they know they do not have to worry about the red shirts as the Army will protect them and now they are speaking up again.

Say's a lot about the red shirts lack of morals. Threatening poor farmers. Well they are now under the heal of the Army and well aware of what the Army can and will do so they are backing off on intimidation.

It actually says more about your political bias and logic.

Really? How so?

I noticed with interest that after martial law was imposed, the red flags came down in the local Red village.

And what happened to all the red flags and billboards at Ko Tee's radio station? Were they needed at Aska?

I don't think so!

[northernjohn]

Interesting. The farmers raise all kinds of a fuss about getting paid even drive their tractors to Bangkok for a one day protest get to Bangkok say nothing turn around and dive home. No more protests.

Martial Law comes along and they know they do not have to worry about the red shirts as the Army will protect them and now they are speaking up again.

Say's a lot about the red shirts lack of morals. Threatening poor farmers. Well they are now under the heal of the Army and well aware of what the Army can and will do so they are backing off on intimidation.

2 days before ML some farmer friends were approached by their "informal lenders" who were asking people if they were going to BKK to protest. They were calling in their 10 baht loans (10% per month) if they were not going.

I don't understand it. they went to keep their loans alive. But they did not have to do any thing but turn around and drive home.

I am sure I am missing some reason there but I can't for the life of me find it.

[tim armstrong]

There are two problems.

1. - The rice scheme failed, and whatever new government is elected it will have to pay the debt owed to the farmers, or sell/dispose of the stockpile at rock bottom prices and pay the farmers some - if not all the debt. It doesn't matter whether its a gov't or opposition problem the debt has to be paid. If not the farmers can go to court in a class action and wait years for any decision. They could also sell their rice directly to the market and refuse to pay duties and tax, if they are still owed money. But its unlikely they will be politically active - its not in their nature.

2. The much more insidious problem is the same one that has faced farmers in many developed countries. That is the cost of production. Why is it now 9,000 baht ? IIt is not because of inefficiency. Most farmers still have the same area of rice growing paddy they've had for generations. But previously they didn't get quite the same yield. Only in the past 10 years have Monsanto, Kubota, the Shins, the money lenders and the traders made it possibe and encouraged farmers to borrow money that they can't afford, all to buy expensive machinery and chemicals to produce more rice that is not competitive on the world market. Rice farmers in 2014 still have the same size paddies as 10 years ago, but they now have 3X the debt. Maybe its their fault for being gullible but they were clearly deceived as we now know. Its history repeating itself as Isaan farmers did by losing all the hardwood forests, 50 years ago.

Thailand maybe the world's 1 or 2 largest exporter and have the edge in jasmine rice sales, but its far from being the world's largest rice producer. Economically, it's not dependent on rice sales, but the political fallout if farmers are not able to diversify will be enormous and long running.

[Piichai]

This being the guy who was stirring up the farmers on behalf of the PDRC and also the guy who turned down the governments proposed reduction in the rice pricing pledge from 15,000 baht to 12,000 baht because they could not make any profit at that price. So what were they doing before the rice subsidy upped the price?

President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak earlier made an announcement that farmers would not accept the Government's decision to reduce the pledging price for rice with 15% water content to 12,000 baht per ton, as they could not make any profit with that price.

You might have missed it but when the rice scam started, prices of rents and fertilizer increased.

On top of that, farmers' overhead has increased as they now need to pay back the loan sharks.

[chotthee]

Go govt now.

Go ask from the army.

[Piichai]

BANGKOK, 21 May 2014, (NNT) -The President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak, advised the media after the army imposed Martial Law, that if a new government is installed, it must make paying off the remaining rice pledge debt to farmers, one of its top priorities.

Agreed, the money was promised, the new government must pay.

However Mr. Vichien said the price of rice should not fall below 11,000 baht per ton, citing the current production cost of 9,000 baht per ton. Mr. Vichien, claimed at the moment the price of rice is in the range of of 5,800 - 6,000 baht per ton.

The farmers must learn that Thailand does not exist in a vacuum. Kittirat told the farmers at least one year before the government failed to meet its obligation, that they could not afford to pay the promised price. The farmers threatened to strike and the government continued to promise a price they could not pay. No matter what the farmers are promised, the world market sets the price. If the government decides to subsidize the farmers the electorate should know what that price will be, and the farmers have to know that they have not earned the money they are paid.

So now it's the farmers' fault?

[Piichai]

"He also urged a new government to draft a policy to regulate the price of 2014 off season rice, leaving the decision of whether or not to continue the rice mortgage scheme, to the administration."

Dream on. The rice scheme is dead. No govt is going to reintroduce such a colossally inept piece of economic stupidity again. Market prices from now on i should imagine..

Methinks you may be underestimating PTP!

[robblok]

This being the guy who was stirring up the farmers on behalf of the PDRC and also the guy who turned down the governments proposed reduction in the rice pricing pledge from 15,000 baht to 12,000 baht because they could not make any profit at that price. So what were they doing before the rice subsidy upped the price?

President of the Thai Agriculturists Association Vichien Puanglamjiak earlier made an announcement that farmers would not accept the Government's decision to reduce the pledging price for rice with 15% water content to 12,000 baht per ton, as they could not make any profit with that price.

You might have missed it but when the rice scam started, prices of rents and fertilizer increased.

On top of that, farmers' overhead has increased as they now need to pay back the loan sharks.

Yes all those prices increased because they all wanted a cut.. now if those others don't take a step back then its the farmer who has the problems.